McDermott Has Evolved

[Doc Brown]

McDermott has been heavily criticized in the past for going the conservative route when push came to shove.  Him choosing to go for it on 4th and inches is a significant step imo as I think Sean kicks the field goal at this same time last year.  His first year when he punted in the snow game making a tie highly likely which would've essentially knocked us out of playoff contention.  He got lucky that it worked out but I still can't defend that call.  Then not going for it on 4th and short before the half last year against KC and again in the 3rd quarter when you knew field goals weren't going to cut it against that team.

 

In this situation the analytics were on your side.  The way the game was playing out made it an easier decision.  Our defense was reeling and all we needed was the best player on our team tonight to pick up half a hard.  You put it in Josh's hands.  If he doesn't slip it's a first down at minimum and likely would've led to a game winning touchdown.  This loss sucks but I thought McDermott showed the aggressiveness needed in a head coach in today's NFL.  That bodes well for this team going forward.

[Utah John]

Only one undefeated team has ever won the Super Bowl so 2 or 3 or 4 losses out of 17 is not bad.  We're in good shape, barring injuries or covid surprises.  

[MJS]

It has been proven over and over that McDermott is not a conservative coach and has countless instances of being aggressive and going for it on fourth down. He sometimes chooses a conservative route, and sometimes you should as a coach. A coach needs to know when to be aggressive and when to be conservative.

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

McDermott has been heavily criticized in the past for going the conservative route when push came to shove.  Him choosing to go for it on 4th and inches is a significant step imo as I think Sean kicks the field goal at this same time last year.  His first year when he punted in the snow game making a tie highly likely which would've essentially knocked us out of playoff contention.  He got lucky that it worked out but I still can't defend that call.  Then not going for it on 4th and short before the half last year against KC and again in the 3rd quarter when you knew field goals weren't going to cut it against that team.

 

In this situation the analytics were on your side.  The way the game was playing out made it an easier decision.  Our defense was reeling and all we needed was the best player on our team tonight to pick up half a hard.  You put it in Josh's hands.  If he doesn't slip it's a first down at minimum and likely would've led to a game winning touchdown.  This loss sucks but I thought McDermott showed the aggressiveness needed in a head coach in today's NFL.  That bodes well for this team going forward.

And we have a 6'6 260 lb QB.

Of course you go. Josh doesn't slip , we win. It happens.  

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

McDermott has been heavily criticized in the past for going the conservative route when push came to shove.  Him choosing to go for it on 4th and inches is a significant step imo as I think Sean kicks the field goal at this same time last year.  His first year when he punted in the snow game making a tie highly likely which would've essentially knocked us out of playoff contention.  He got lucky that it worked out but I still can't defend that call.  Then not going for it on 4th and short before the half last year against KC and again in the 3rd quarter when you knew field goals weren't going to cut it against that team.

 

In this situation the analytics were on your side.  The way the game was playing out made it an easier decision.  Our defense was reeling and all we needed was the best player on our team tonight to pick up half a hard.  You put it in Josh's hands.  If he doesn't slip it's a first down at minimum and likely would've led to a game winning touchdown.  This loss sucks but I thought McDermott showed the aggressiveness needed in a head coach in today's NFL.  That bodes well for this team going forward.

His defensive gameplan was awful. One of the worse I seen of him and Frazier. 

[Dan Darragh]

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

McDermott has been heavily criticized in the past for going the conservative route when push came to shove.  Him choosing to go for it on 4th and inches is a significant step imo as I think Sean kicks the field goal at this same time last year.  His first year when he punted in the snow game making a tie highly likely which would've essentially knocked us out of playoff contention.  He got lucky that it worked out but I still can't defend that call.  Then not going for it on 4th and short before the half last year against KC and again in the 3rd quarter when you knew field goals weren't going to cut it against that team.

 

In this situation the analytics were on your side.  The way the game was playing out made it an easier decision.  Our defense was reeling and all we needed was the best player on our team tonight to pick up half a hard.  You put it in Josh's hands.  If he doesn't slip it's a first down at minimum and likely would've led to a game winning touchdown.  This loss sucks but I thought McDermott showed the aggressiveness needed in a head coach in today's NFL.  That bodes well for this team going forward.

I'd rather lose that way than go for the FG and then have a tie.

[Dr.Sack]

I love the aggression late going for the W. What I don’t like is settling for chip shot feel good FGs early. Might as well start playing RZ offense as if it is 4 down territory. We simply can’t squander 45% of all RZ trips. Especially early in the game. I appreciate Josh’s 0 career TOs in RZ but something is amiss, and is mostly not being able or willing to use a back like Moss or Gilliam to grind hard yards. 

[Thurman#1]

10 minutes ago, Dan Darragh said:

I'd rather lose that way than go for the FG and then have a tie.

 

 

Um, no thanks.

 

After the tie we have a chance to win.

 

I don't think it was an awful decision, but I kick the field goal there every time.

[Thurman#1]

15 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

And we have a 6'6 260 lb QB.

Of course you go. Josh doesn't slip , we win. It happens.  

 

 

 

He's not 260. I've seen it everywhere from 237 to 250, but it's most likely low to middle of that range. The other Josh Allen, the DE, runs around 255. Are you thinking of him? Our Josh is a big strong dude, but he's been stopped on sneaks before.

 

And if he didn't slip, he still wasn't getting the yardage there. Might possibly have been able to change direction or something, but they had it stopped.

[BobbyC81]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

It has been proven over and over that McDermott is not a conservative coach and has countless instances of being aggressive and going for it on fourth down. He sometimes chooses a conservative route, and sometimes you should as a coach. A coach needs to know when to be aggressive and when to be conservative.

I guess this came from his time with Riverboat Ron.

[Your Brown Eye]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

And we have a 6'6 260 lb QB.

Of course you go. Josh doesn't slip , we win. It happens.  

 

 

I don't know, that mo-fo from the Titans who BLEW up Dawkins is a big man, he'd have a chance to get it, but it wasn't a guarantee if he didn't slip that's for sure there was alot of flesh he would have to move to make that first down. The left side did him 0 favors on that play.

[Thurman#1]

 

1 hour ago, Doc Brown said:

His combine weight was 262 pounds.  That's before the chicken wings.

 

 

Um, think you ought to check that one again. 237 at the combine.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/2018-combine.htm

 

You may be thinking of the other Josh Allen, the one who is a defensive lineman. That guy, now a Jax Jaguar, was indeed 262 at the combine.

 

 

 

And I don't think that situation put the analytics on our side. They were prepared for the sneak. They had a guy in each of the guard-center gaps and another on the other side of the LG between Dawkins and Feliciano. So both the center and the LG had a guy on each shoulder.

 

If you catch a team unawares with one of those gaps not covered, yeah, the odds are way in your favor. They weren't on this play.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Thurman#1

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

He's not 260. I've seen it everywhere from 237 to 250, but it's most likely low to middle of that range. The other Josh Allen, the DE, runs around 255. Are you thinking of him? Our Josh is a big strong dude, but he's been stopped on sneaks before.

 

And if he didn't slip, he still wasn't getting the yardage there. Might possibly have been able to change direction or something, but they had it stopped.

First, I don’t have a problem with going for it, but the blocking wasn’t there.  Forget the slip of the feet.  I believe it was Feliciano who slanted in, and the outside penetrated, so Feliciano helped Morse, but there was a gap open.  Allen based on the way the play evolved wouldn’t have made it.  I would’ve been fine with the field goal, and it would’ve been a toss up.  We were moving the ball, and Bass has been consistent for a long time now.  Then again, our D Line wasn’t getting much pressure so it’s a toss up.

 

I don’t think you pin the loss on that one play.  We have to go back to the drawing board for after the break.  I don’t know if it was a good decision to sit AJ and Basham.  Addison had one play I could see helped, but overall, eh.  Wallace was picked on as expected, but still overall a solid CB.  It’s not Madden and the other four are excellent.  Those penalties by Sanders and the hold on the McKenzie return sucked.  We could’ve won that game and credit to the Titans for playing a tough physical game.

 

You know after the Cards loss, we destroyed teams.  Look fir the same this year.  Fins, Jags, Jets, Cheats, be very afraid.  You’re going to pay for Henry after four years embarrassing us.  You too Colts, and Saints.  I can easily see us 10-2 going into the Bucs game.  Wentz is nothing, and Winston at times can be a pick machine.  I know you guys are PO’ed, but we’ll bounce back and play more angry than ever before.  They get two weeks to stew on the fact we were not the physical team last night.  They were.  Like us healthy as we can’t blame anything on injuries like last year, they had back their three weapons in Julio, Brown, and the King.  He showed his nickname.  I can hear the call from my 91 yr. old dad we should’ve tackled Henry today.  It’s almost not even worth telling him the man is a truck at 255 lbs., and it’s like tackling a Sherman tank.

 

The next challenge.  BEAT THE EVER LIVING CRAP OUT IF THE TEAM WHICH IS MY CURRENT HOME TOWN IN THE BUCS. We do that and all is forgiven and forgotten.  

[Steptide]

Glad they've been aggressive on offense, wish they'd be that way on defense 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

Where was the aggressiveness on the 24 yard and 28 yard field goals in the first quarter?

 

[GaryPinC]

It should have been a different play.  We badly blew it on a fourth down earlier, we don't do many QB sneaks and so I felt we should have done something different.

 

Fake the sneak just like they ran it, Josh peel out of there and pass to former TE Spencer Brown who reported as eligible.

 

We're not good at the sneak. Wrong game to try and get better at it.

 

[BillnutinHouston]

2 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

And we have a 6'6 260 lb QB.

 

260?  Eating a lot of wings over the last few weeks?  I've never heard any commentator put him at 260.

 

Just now, BillnutinHouston said:

 

260?  Eating a lot of wings over the last few weeks?  I've never heard any commentator put him at 260.

 

 

Edit:  and he's 6'5".

[ALF]

The run blocking was not there for the Bills.

[SirAndrew]

I loved the call, but didn’t love Daboll trying to get cute again. Yes, it was a simple QB sneak, but Josh doesn’t slip without the trick play element of running up to the line. I understand variety, but we have enough talent to simply line up and beat people. Line Josh up under center, or run a shotgun formation to give him a run/pass option play. 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Um, no thanks.

 

After the tie we have a chance to win.

 

I don't think it was an awful decision, but I kick the field goal there every time.

yup.  Why toss this game away? Get some clock in OT

[May Day 10]

I'll stand with the decision to go for it all day.  

[The Firebaugh Kid]

1 hour ago, Steptide said:

Glad they've been aggressive on offense, wish they'd be that way on defense 

ZERO blitzes against a team that can't pass protect. Agreed. 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

1 hour ago, GaryPinC said:

We're not good at the sneak. Wrong game to try and get better at it.

 

Josh was 13 of 14 on sneaks before this game...

[badassgixxer05]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Um, no thanks.

 

After the tie we have a chance to win.

 

I don't think it was an awful decision, but I kick the field goal there every time.

We have a chance to win if we convert that play too. Our D couldn't stop them the last 5 drives. If they win the coin toss they most likely beat us. I liked the guts. Was just poor execution. Hit Beasley in the back of the endzone on that scramble and none of us are even talking about this, but we will live to see another day. Our division is *****, so the days of us counting AFC wins/loses to try and steal a wildcard shouldn't even be a thing. I would have loved the W, but its not going to derail the season. Go Bills!

[Back2Buff]

He kicked two FGs in the first half when this team knew they had to score A LOT to win this game.

 

I just don't understand what the heck he was thinking at the end of the game.

 

Let's say you get the first down.  You are down to 18 seconds with left with no timeouts (Assuming he took the TO to stop the clock after the sneak).  With this teams inability to run and not being able to stop clock, what the heck were they going to do down there?  They weren't scoring a TD anyways, even if they got the sneak.  It was a horrible call.  If you were going for it, they should have went for the end zone.

[Hebert19]

He was 13 of 14 in his career before that.   I take those odds. 

[Wo-Bah]

He may have evolved with being more aggressive, but his clock management at the end of games still sucks.  That was some of the worst.  He had timeouts, why not use at least one of them to get his team in order and calm down to run a good couple of plays.

 

I was OK with him going for it on 4th down.

[BillsFan1]

Is a FG a bad play?  McDermott seems to think so.   This is the second game he has cost the Bills because he would not kick a field goal to help his team out.  Aggressive is one thing.   Stupid is another.

[Mr. WEO]

9 minutes ago, Wo-Bah said:

He may have evolved with being more aggressive, but his clock management at the end of games still sucks.  That was some of the worst.  He had timeouts, why not use at least one of them to get his team in order and calm down to run a good couple of plays.

 

I was OK with him going for it on 4th down.

 

Turn a tie/OT into a loss and bring 2 Time Outs home with you on the plane is now labeled as "gutsy"...

[BillsFan1]

I agree...Also, can everybody stop fawning over Micah Hyde now.   He got his backside handed to him yesterday.   The book on the Bills is you have to smack them in the mouth and put Mcdermottt on tilt.  Pittsburgh and Tennessee both did it = to a  T.   

 

Oh ,  the D line is not getting home,

[Dan Darragh]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Um, no thanks.

 

After the tie we have a chance to win.

 

I don't think it was an awful decision, but I kick the field goal there every time.

After a tie you go home and wait for your next game.  A tie is not the same as a tied score before the end of the game.

 

With the 10 minute overtime, if each team stalls on one drive a tie is a significant possibility.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

1 hour ago, badassgixxer05 said:

We have a chance to win if we convert that play too. Our D couldn't stop them the last 5 drives. If they win the coin toss they most likely beat us. I liked the guts. Was just poor execution. Hit Beasley in the back of the endzone on that scramble and none of us are even talking about this, but we will live to see another day. Our division is *****, so the days of us counting AFC wins/loses to try and steal a wildcard shouldn't even be a thing. I would have loved the W, but its not going to derail the season. Go Bills!

I don't think anyone is concerned about making the playoffs. Most are concerned about getting the #1 seed, for good reason. With this schedule, we'll never have a better opportunity to get to the Super Bowl.

1 hour ago, Back2Buff said:

They weren't scoring a TD anyways, even if they got the sneak.  It was a horrible call.  If you were going for it, they should have went for the end zone.

What the hell? They would have literally had four pass plays from inside the 2 yard line. I kind of like their chances.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, badassgixxer05 said:

We have a chance to win if we convert that play too. Our D couldn't stop them the last 5 drives. If they win the coin toss they most likely beat us. I liked the guts. Was just poor execution. Hit Beasley in the back of the endzone on that scramble and none of us are even talking about this, but we will live to see another day. Our division is *****, so the days of us counting AFC wins/loses to try and steal a wildcard shouldn't even be a thing. I would have loved the W, but its not going to derail the season. Go Bills!

 

 

No, we have zero percent chance to win. His exact quote was that he "would rather lose that way than ". Again, "lose that way." After you've lost, you have zero chance. 

 

5 hours ago, Dan Darragh said:

I'd rather lose that way than go for the FG and then have a tie.

 

That's nuts, preferring aggressive losing to having a chance to win. So, no, I would have just about an infinite preference for having a tie with a chance to win than having a loss. I find it hard to imagine why anyone would not feel the same.

 

I don't think going for the sneak was a horrible call. But seeing how they lined up specifically to take away the sneak, they should have kicked the FG or at least tried another play. I would have, anyway.

 

I genuinely hate the whole "I liked the guts" thing. Guts means squat. Smart is much much better. It takes real guts to take off your helmet and run into a brick wall head first time and time again. Guts. Aggressiveness. Courage. And complete insanity and stupidity. 

 

It's much much better to judge whether to do something based on how smart it is than how much guts it would take.

 

Hopefully you're right that it won't derail the season. It seems that way to me too.

 

Oh, and Beasley wasn't open in the end zone till after Josh crossed the line of scrimmage. That's why he was alone, the Titans all came running up after he crossed it. You can see it on the broadcast angle (I went back and looked on nflgamepass. When Josh crosses the LOS, Beasley is about to cross the goal line and he's covered.) When Josh crosses the LOS, Beasley is in the frame.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Thurman#1

[starrymessenger]

2 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

I'll stand with the decision to go for it all day.  

Agree. I don't actually think coach had much of a choice. What message does it communicate when you take the ball out of Josh Allen's hands in a situation like that. Would signal a total lack of confidence in your centerpiece player.

[Back2Buff]

57 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I don't think anyone is concerned about making the playoffs. Most are concerned about getting the #1 seed, for good reason. With this schedule, we'll never have a better opportunity to get to the Super Bowl.

What the hell? They would have literally had four pass plays from inside the 2 yard line. I kind of like their chances.

 

You like our chances?  Four pass plays where the opposing team knows you have to pass in an area that small when our red zone offense is horrible?  One sack or holding penalty, and game is over.  The time to score was on 4th and inches, when defense was expecting a QB sneak.  They did the opposite of what they should have.  Instead of starting in shot gun and going under center, the should have went under center to look like they are sneaking, and then go into shotgun and get Allen on the move to the side of the field that had more green space.  Give him the option to run in from there, and also have options sneaking across the line to get opened in end zone.  The line was getting abused all night, why they expected to be able to bully them on that play, makes no sense.  Its bad coaching.

[popcornpam]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Turn a tie/OT into a loss and bring 2 Time Outs home with you on the plane is now labeled as "gutsy"...

I agree he should’ve called the time out there.  Head coach  rushed it no reason for that also just got stopped earlier on the same play trying to sneak on the left. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

4 hours ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

Where was the aggressiveness on the 24 yard and 28 yard field goals in the first quarter?

 

 

Would you have gone for 4th and 3 from the 5 in a 0-0 game? Or the 4th and goal from the 10 while leading 3-0 ?

 

And to note that the DEF was playing lights out at that point of the game. 

 

I ripped on McDermotts 4th down decisions in the Steelers game, but I thought he was 100% correct on 4th down calls last night. 

[John from Riverside]

Totally fine with going for it I just thought we were being a little cute while we did it

 

josh slips because 

 

a. His feet were not set

b his ol not only got no push they got folded back

[SCBills]

4 hours ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

Where was the aggressiveness on the 24 yard and 28 yard field goals in the first quarter?

 

 

We had the #1 Defense coming into that game.  Up to the point where Henry busted a long run, our defense looked every bit of #1....  You take the points there.  

 

I don't think McDermott could foresee the wheels falling off and our defense turning into a tire fire in the second half.  

 

Not comparable to a decision to go for it on 4 and 1 inside the 5, with a chance to win instead of forcing OT.  

 

[PromoTheRobot]

You bet when the odds favor you. We have the players that you can bet on now.

[Success]

We have a great HC.  He takes very calculated risks - he's not rash when he makes a gutsy call.  And he is not conservative - I rarely if ever see him have a "play not to lose" mentality.