Nfl pass protection index via the Athletic

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

I just pulled this up on the Athetic and if you had to guess where would you say they ranked us among 32 teams..

 

We are number 30 and I’m trying to relay for those who can’t access.

 

 

 

BUFFALO BILLS

WEEK 1-3 PASS PROTECTION

SACKS 4

3 (this is again a rank which is good as we have allowed only four sacks)

 

SACK%3.0

1

PRESSURES 49

1

PRESSURE% 35.3

30

“Josh Allen must be a wizard.

The Bills are 2-1 even though guard Cody Ford produced the single worst game of the season with 11 pressures allowed in Buffalo’s loss to Pittsburgh. So it figures Ford is tied for the league lead with 16 pressures.

It’s come from several directions as well, with guard Jon Feliciano (11), tackle Daryl Williams (10) and tackle Dion Williams (nine) being far too porous for the Bills. Center Mitch Morse shouldn’t be praised for having only six pressures.

All of that, and Allen has only been sacked four times.”

 

[LabattBlue]

Kind of what I suspect.  Protection has been below average, and Allen’s mobility has bailed them out 

[CorkScrewHill]

13 minutes ago, BTB said:

Kind of what I suspect.  Protection has been below average, and Allen’s mobility has bailed them out 

His mobility and his spider sense .. 10 times a game it seems I am like oh #$#$ he doesn't see the pressure  .. and he senses it somehow and avoids .. it is really remarkable.

[Inigo Montoya]

10 minutes ago, BTB said:

Kind of what I suspect.  Protection has been below average, and Allen’s mobility has bailed them out 

 

You're exactly right BTB.  If it wasn't for Josh's ability to slide around the pocket and roll out of the pocket and still deliver strikes, the Bills offense would be dead in the water.  

 

Daboll needs to stay in 11 personel and continue to swing Knox or Gilliam into the backfield to provide and extra blocker for Josh along with the RB.  The O-line just isn't playing very well right now.  I'm not sure what the answer is, but if Ford and Feliciano continue to play like this, I suspect we're going to end up starting a 6'8" rookie guard at some point this season.

[BubbaT]

Do we have a tackle named Dion Williams? Does this affect the credibility of this report?

 

Anyway, the O line, in my opinion, is the weakest group on this team. They do "okay" but nothing more than that. I'm hoping for an upgrade next offseason in both draft and FA.

 

 

 

[colin]

i presume we can run block decently, but we need to execute that and mix it in, because for how we played last year and how we played vs pittz, our oline is simply a liablity.  makes sense whey they drafted three guys this offseason for it.  there is just not enough talent there right now.

[RoyBatty is alive]

26 minutes ago, BTB said:

Kind of what I suspect.  Protection has been below average, and Allen’s mobility has bailed them out 

And his throwing passes away (lowering his % completion).

[TheyCallMeAndy]

17 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

His mobility and his spider sense .. 10 times a game it seems I am like oh #$#$ he doesn't see the pressure  .. and he senses it somehow and avoids .. it is really remarkable.

Good ol’ Peter tickle.

 

Joshy Tickle? 

[hondo in seattle]

While some folks were talking about OL continuity during the offseason, I was thinking about acquisition.

 

Beane's doing a great job overall but I had really hoped that he would upgrade the offensive line.  

 

This line is a bunch of journeymen that aren't good at pass pro and - based on what we saw last year - even worse at run blocking.

 

I'm with BubbaT and really hope we upgrade the line next year.

 

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I've heard people say that Spencer Brown is too tall at 6'8" to play guard.  I don't know if that's true or not.  Robert Gallery is 6'8" and he's a hell of a guard.  The issue is that most really big guys just aren't very nimble or athletic, their massive size is their calling card.  If I recall correctly, Brown had a SPARQ score that was off the charts. He has rare athleticism for a man who is 6'8" and 311 lbs. 

 

Because Brown is so agile, it might be tough for d-linemen to get underneath him and get him going backwards, which has always been the knock against tall guards.  Brown may end up being  the rare big man who can play guard well because of his athleticism.

 

Brown is blowing people up on running plays when brought in as an extra linemen.  I think if he can show some pass blocking chops in practice as the season goes on, I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the starting five at guard before Thanksgiving. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

16 minutes ago, BubbaT said:

Do we have a tackle named Dion Williams? Does this affect the credibility of this report?

 

Anyway, the O line, in my opinion, is the weakest group on this team. They do "okay" but nothing more than that. I'm hoping for an upgrade next offseason in both draft and FA.

 

 

 

3 of the 5 were down right awesome against Washington, Mongo was solid. Ford has had his moments but has also been wildly inconsistent 

[Rubes]

19 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

You're exactly right BTB.  If it wasn't for Josh's ability to slide around the pocket and roll out of the pocket and still deliver strikes, the Bills offense would be dead in the water.  

 

Daboll needs to stay in 11 personel and continue to swing Knox or Gilliam into the backfield to provide and extra blocker for Josh along with the RB.  The O-line just isn't playing very well right now.  I'm not sure what the answer is, but if Ford and Feliciano continue to play like this, I suspect we're going to end up starting a 6'8" rookie guard at some point this season.

 

Guess we'll find out, since Feliciano is out this week...

 

[LABILLBACKER]

33 minutes ago, BTB said:

Kind of what I suspect.  Protection has been below average, and Allen’s mobility has bailed them out 

Yes it has and on top of that our OL for the most part is underwhelming on run blocking.  Aside from Dawkins,  I think the rest need to be reevaluated next season. It's almost like Josh knows Daryl's going to get beat so he steps up and to his right. Which might work out in a backwards way. 

2 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

I've heard people say that Spencer Brown is too tall at 6'8" to play guard.  I don't know if that's true or not.  Robert Gallery is 6'8" and he's a hell of a guard.  The issue is that most really big guys just aren't very nimble or athletic, their massive size is their calling card.  If I recall correctly, Brown had a SPARQ score that was off the charts. He has rare athleticism for a man who is 6'8" and 311 lbs. 

 

Because Brown is so agile, it might be tough for d-linemen to get underneath him and get him going backwards, which has always been the knock against tall guards.  Brown may end up being  the rare big man who can play guard well because of his athleticism.

 

Brown is blowing people up on running plays when brought in as an extra linemen.  I think if he can show some pass blocking chops in practice as the season goes on, I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the starting five at guard before Thanksgiving. 

Both of WFT's Guards were very tall. And we barely put a hand on Heinicke. 

[MJS]

5 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

While some folks were talking about OL continuity during the offseason, I was thinking about acquisition.

 

Beane's doing a great job overall but I had really hoped that he would upgrade the offensive line.  

 

This line is a bunch of journeymen that aren't good at pass pro and - based on what we saw last year - even worse at run blocking.

 

I'm with BubbaT and really hope we upgrade the line next year.

Unless you have a boat load of money and draft picks (which the Bills don't), it's going to take some time. We have a bunch of average starters, some of them maybe below average. It gets the job done often, and sometimes it doesn't.

 

Beane has been excellent at building depth on the line, though, so when someone comes in it isn't a huge dropoff. Over time by developing draft picks and making shrewd pickups in free agency the line should get better. But it is a multi-year project, and even then you have to start replacing players that leave or get old, so the job is never going to be done on the oline.

 

What we need is one elite guy on the line to anchor it and then fill in the pieces around him. Right now we don't have that. Dawkins is above average. Morse is maybe a little above average. But they aren't even close to being elite. The rest are below average or worse, but at least lower end starting caliber players.

[Alphadawg7]

30 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

His mobility and his spider sense .. 10 times a game it seems I am like oh #$#$ he doesn't see the pressure  .. and he senses it somehow and avoids .. it is really remarkable.

 

Yeah, I know what you mean.  The line has been terrible IMO, and Allen has been quite remarkable in how he avoids the pressure, including making guys like Chase Young look silly after he beats our OL to Josh and he somehow senses it and just easily slips right by him with ease.  

[JESSEFEFFER]

Often times, mobile QBs who have an affinity to extend plays end up making an OL look bad.  Big Ben did that in his prime.  I remember Mike Vick with the Eagles complaining about the nature of the hits he was taking.  My thought was that small, indecisive and unaware was no way to play QB in the NFL.  Sort of the Dean Woermer take about going through like fat, drunk and stupid.

 

Josh is big, aware and decisive and it masks many of the mistakes the line has been making.  It's rare to see him take a blindside hit. TJ Watt got him in game 1, I can't think of another.  One unblocked defender is rarely enough to get him down.  Sometimes 3 can't.  Makes me think that the problems they had with the Chiefs last year were more about what was happening downfield than about Josh being under duress.  Our receivers were injured and could not get open when physically challenged.

[Bangarang]

It’s actually pretty surprising how consistently bad Ford continues to be. 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

The data at face value gives the o-line a poor performance evaluation.  One significant contributing factor is the length of time that Josh Allen holds the ball.  Another factor is the type of routes that are being run.  The Bills don't run a quick pass offense and the teams that do don't give up as many sacks and pressures, thus making their o-line stats look much better.  Could the Buffalo o-line play better?  Certainly they can but it is not the dire catastrophe that the "sky is falling crowd" purports it to be.  A simple one dimensional review of statistics rarely gives the total story.

 

Until the Bills establish a legitimate running game, defenses will continue to disregard run defense and will strictly focus on rushing the passer.  This puts the o-line at a distinct disadvantage.

[Kelly the Dog]

I know they don’t plan it this way, and would prefer not to suck, but the extraordinary way Josh handles the rush, the Bills can excel the way they are playing. I mentioned this in my BuffNews fan article this week. 
 

Allen easily makes the first guy miss almost every time. He gets in trouble when he eludes one guy and the second surprises him from behind. Or he blindly eludes one and turns into a second (which is really the same thing). 
 

This talent of Josh’s is literally on the same level as his arm talent. It’s insane how easily and often he does it and makes it look. 
 

If only one guy is getting beat we are fine. When the jailbreaks come we will be in trouble. 

[billybrew1]

I don't think 30.... The Pittsburgh game was Abysmal. They really cleaned it up vs. Miami although there was often one guy coming in on Josh to little effect (because Josh ditched him) and then Ford got killed vs. Washington.

 

No way were second from the last....

 

Though we will be drafting two interior OL next season, one in the 2nd round.

[billybrew1]

The real question is how could everyone be so wrong about Cody Ford?

 

Can he still improve? You laugh but he hasn't played much RG in his entire career and hasn't played much pro ball at all.

So, conceivably, Ford could still work out if we are patient and the Bills seem as patient as pudding when it comes to Ford....

 

I wish I still had the Pittsburgh game. Later in that game I thought I saw Watt get destroyed by a guard coming to help Williams a couple times but I never rewatched the game because we lost..... : (

[K-9]

14 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I know they don’t plan it this way, and would prefer not to suck, but the extraordinary way Josh handles the rush, the Bills can excel the way they are playing. I mentioned this in my BuffNews fan article this week. 
 

Allen easily makes the first guy miss almost every time. He gets in trouble when he eludes one guy and the second surprises him from behind. Or he blindly eludes one and turns into a second (which is really the same thing). 
 

This talent of Josh’s is literally on the same level as his arm talent. It’s insane how easily and often he does it and makes it look. 
 

If only one guy is getting beat we are fine. When the jailbreaks come we will be in trouble. 

As Josh matured and with the addition of receivers who can read defenses as well, he started ripping man coverage and blitzes of every type; to the tune of being at or near the top in passer rating against those schemes. In response, we’ve seen DCs drop 7 into zone coverages more frequently and our OL has had the numbers advantage most of the time. They should win the majority of those battles and keep a cleaner pocket. It’s nice to know that JA has to beat less rushers on his own most of the time.
 

DCs are gonna be in a bigger quandary when Allen becomes as good vs. zone as he became against man because if you can’t get to him with four rushers, he’s gonna kill ya. How many great QBs have we said the very same thing about in the past? 
 

Enjoy the ride.

[LyndonvilleBill]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

It’s actually pretty surprising how consistently bad Ford continues to be. 

I agree, but, considering his first year at RT (really bad decision), last year being messed up, then starting at LG, then gets injured and now going into week 4 at RG... I'll be a little more patient and give him to the bye week until I start jumping on him. 

[K-9]

24 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

I agree, but, considering his first year at RT (really bad decision), last year being messed up, then starting at LG, then gets injured and now going into week 4 at RG... I'll be a little more patient and give him to the bye week until I start jumping on him. 

That’s a reasonable take. He’s been poor in 2 of the three games this year but, and this isn’t defending him, he’s also gone up against a couple of elite interior DL players who make most of the interior OLmen they face look just as bad much of the time. I’m gonna try to be patient as well given that he’s never had the opportunity to really settle into a position and make it his own.

[NewEra]

We’ll live and die on the OL play.

[Kelly the Dog]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

We’ll live and die on the OL play.

Not so sure about that. Josh has proven that he can be truly great without it. Again, this is not how we would like it, and we need to do what we can to make it better. There were a lot of factors that went into the Bills loss to the Chiefs last year that rivaled the lackluster OL performance.

[gobills404]

 

[hondo in seattle]

3 hours ago, MJS said:

Unless you have a boat load of money and draft picks (which the Bills don't), it's going to take some time. We have a bunch of average starters, some of them maybe below average. It gets the job done often, and sometimes it doesn't.

 

Beane has been excellent at building depth on the line, though, so when someone comes in it isn't a huge dropoff. Over time by developing draft picks and making shrewd pickups in free agency the line should get better. But it is a multi-year project, and even then you have to start replacing players that leave or get old, so the job is never going to be done on the oline.

 

What we need is one elite guy on the line to anchor it and then fill in the pieces around him. Right now we don't have that. Dawkins is above average. Morse is maybe a little above average. But they aren't even close to being elite. The rest are below average or worse, but at least lower end starting caliber players.

 

I agree with pretty much all of this.  The salary cap forces GMs to prioritize.  And Beane focused on the skill positions in the passing game.  He also picked up a couple of decent 3rd round RBs.  And he's brought in a truckload of offensive linemen on a budget over the past few years and kept the best ones.  You're right, our OL depth is actually pretty good even if our starting lineup is far from great.

 

I've always thought if I was a GM, I'd want a couple Pro Bowl quality lineman and then some cost-effective JAGs.  We have mostly JAGs right now with a couple maybe above average.  As you say, none of them are elite.   I want a couple elite guys to protect our $258 million dollar man.  I'd guess Beane wants the same but things just haven't fallen in place either in free agency or the draft.  I hope he makes the OL a bigger priority this upcoming offseason.

 

 

[billybrew1]

Man! Bills got some work to do!

 

Maybe it's good we have an early bye?

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

2 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I know they don’t plan it this way, and would prefer not to suck, but the extraordinary way Josh handles the rush, the Bills can excel the way they are playing. I mentioned this in my BuffNews fan article this week. 
 

Allen easily makes the first guy miss almost every time. He gets in trouble when he eludes one guy and the second surprises him from behind. Or he blindly eludes one and turns into a second (which is really the same thing). 
 

This talent of Josh’s is literally on the same level as his arm talent. It’s insane how easily and often he does it and makes it look. 
 

If only one guy is getting beat we are fine. When the jailbreaks come we will be in trouble. 

Nice plug

[buffaloboyinATL]

4 hours ago, BTB said:

Kind of what I suspect.  Protection has been below average, and Allen’s mobility has bailed them out 

Maybe it is by design. Allen told Ford, "just let them run by you and I'll take it from there".

 

[1ManRaid]

2 hours ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

The data at face value gives the o-line a poor performance evaluation.  One significant contributing factor is the length of time that Josh Allen holds the ball.  Another factor is the type of routes that are being run.  The Bills don't run a quick pass offense and the teams that do don't give up as many sacks and pressures, thus making their o-line stats look much better.  Could the Buffalo o-line play better?  Certainly they can but it is not the dire catastrophe that the "sky is falling crowd" purports it to be.  A simple one dimensional review of statistics rarely gives the total story.

 

Until the Bills establish a legitimate running game, defenses will continue to disregard run defense and will strictly focus on rushing the passer.  This puts the o-line at a distinct disadvantage.

 

Yeah I saw a lot of people saying our D-line sucked vs WFT because we didn't get a lot of sacks.  What I saw was a lot of deep fast dropbacks from their QB with quick throws specifically to avoid getting sacked after seeing us taking down Miami QBs 6 times.  Being down their starting QB, they couldn't afford to even give up pressures even if their offense was weaker as a result.

 

So my takeaway from these stats is week 1 continues to be a big fat liar, and anyone can be made to look better or worse through stats if you ignore context.

[fergie's ire]

4 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

His mobility and his spider sense .. 10 times a game it seems I am like oh #$#$ he doesn't see the pressure  .. and he senses it somehow and avoids .. it is really remarkable.

Yeah, last year I watched the game late in the season between the Ravens and Browns.  The biggest difference I saw between Lamar and Baker vs Josh is the pocket awareness.  I was used to watching Josh and watching them made his ability stand out.  Sometime between year 2 and 3 Josh developed that Brady-esque ability to sense pressure and make subtle steps to avoid it while keeping his eyes downfield.  I am not saying he does it to Brady's level at this point (nobody does) but watching his classmates really made it clear how far Allen has come.

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

Yeah, last year I watched the game late in the season between the Ravens and Browns.  The biggest difference I saw between Lamar and Baker vs Josh is the pocket awareness.  I was used to watching Josh and watching them made his ability stand out.  Sometime between year 2 and 3 Josh developed that Brady-esque ability to sense pressure and make subtle steps to avoid it while keeping his eyes downfield.  I am not saying he does it to Brady's level at this point (nobody does) but watching his classmates really made it clear how far Allen has come.

Intelligence + talent + work ethic = Josh Allen

[machine gun kelly]

6 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

You're exactly right BTB.  If it wasn't for Josh's ability to slide around the pocket and roll out of the pocket and still deliver strikes, the Bills offense would be dead in the water.  

 

Daboll needs to stay in 11 personel and continue to swing Knox or Gilliam into the backfield to provide and extra blocker for Josh along with the RB.  The O-line just isn't playing very well right now.  I'm not sure what the answer is, but if Ford and Feliciano continue to play like this, I suspect we're going to end up starting a 6'8" rookie guard at some point this season.

Inigo, my guy in search of the 6 fingered man, I think you could see Boettger getting back into the LG spot.  We also haven't seen much of Bates who's been groomed here for a few years.  Taron Johnson and Levi Wallace developed nicely under McD.  I wonder if either will get a shot.  I'm with you 100% in 11 personnel, and with teams where we think we can run even 21 personnel with Gilliam and (Moss/Motor) in there and leave Knox out for a play.  The RB can go up the middle with Gilliam plowing the field for a tough couple of yards, or he stays in for protection and Moss is you're dump of 3-4 yards down for a pass and let him knock a safety on his ars.  What did he say, that will be a business decision.

Edited October 1, 2021 by machine gun kelly

[947]

I still don't understand why we cut Forrest Lamp. I thought he had a shot to be our best OG. Not sure how bad his injury was, but I'd have rather seen him IR'd.

[JGMcD2]

It has nothing to do with the o-line. 

 

It's blatantly obvious that Josh is regressing right in front of our eyes!

 

🤣

Edited October 1, 2021 by JGMcD2

[NewEra]

9 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Not so sure about that. Josh has proven that he can be truly great without it. Again, this is not how we would like it, and we need to do what we can to make it better. There were a lot of factors that went into the Bills loss to the Chiefs last year that rivaled the lackluster OL performance.

Idk.  Sure he can, but not every time.  Prior to Miami and wft, the last two games we saw him play, our OL got shredded and he played poorly.  I didn’t see Superman vs Kc or Pittsburgh.

[78thealltimegreat]

20 hours ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

I just pulled this up on the Athetic and if you had to guess where would you say they ranked us among 32 teams..

 

We are number 30 and I’m trying to relay for those who can’t access.

 

 

 

BUFFALO BILLS

WEEK 1-3 PASS PROTECTION

SACKS 4

3 (this is again a rank which is good as we have allowed only four sacks)

 

SACK%3.0

1

PRESSURES 49

1

PRESSURE% 35.3

30

“Josh Allen must be a wizard.

The Bills are 2-1 even though guard Cody Ford produced the single worst game of the season with 11 pressures allowed in Buffalo’s loss to Pittsburgh. So it figures Ford is tied for the league lead with 16 pressures.

It’s come from several directions as well, with guard Jon Feliciano (11), tackle Daryl Williams (10) and tackle Dion Williams (nine) being far too porous for the Bills. Center Mitch Morse shouldn’t be praised for having only six pressures.

All of that, and Allen has only been sacked four times.”

 

We have the 30th rated oline and the QB was still AFC player of the week…I think we can safely reach the conclusion Josh is really really good 

[Kelly the Dog]

10 hours ago, NewEra said:

Idk.  Sure he can, but not every time.  Prior to Miami and wft, the last two games we saw him play, our OL got shredded and he played poorly.  I didn’t see Superman vs Kc or Pittsburgh.

Versus Pitt he just seemed off a little and their defense confused him a little. There were a lot of plays to be made.  I didn’t see him getting sacked or rattled by one guy quickly rushing or in his face IMO.