OT: Are you concerned about Mac Jones?

[PatsFanNH]

6 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

I think Mac Jones is a good fit for the Pats system but long term I am not sure he is going to be a consistent top 10 QB for the Pats. I see him more as a Carr type QB who will float between being an average to above average starting QB. 

Hmmm see I always felt that Carr be a top end QB if he ever got quality coaching. I always felt Gruden was super over rated.

[Nelius]

4 minutes ago, BillsFan692 said:

Show us on the doll where the patriots touched you

 

They manhandled each of us in various different ways for years, c'mon now. Are we really getting to a point where dreading or hating the Pats is overblown lol? They're still the least likeable franchise in sports.

 

I'm concerned about Mac Jones this year, I'm not necessarily concerned about him long-term if that makes any sense. I don't think he's going to be anything close to Josh's Marino for example. They need a receiver too, I don't think you can get by with a group of hard working individuals and limited play makers like you could have with Brady.

[Patspatspats]

Do bills fans realize that Mac ran about the same 40 time as Josh Allen? Both were high 4.7's. Mac isn't a speedster like fields or Jackson, but he can run. He's way faster than brady. It's not even close. 

 

Secondly, when you make quick throws and quick decisions like Mac does you don't need to run much. 

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

Speaking as a Pats fan, I am excited because he gets better every week but more importantly he doesn’t have to do it on his own. They got 2 other very good draft picks in Baremore and Stevenson add in Bourne, Judon, and Henry in FA and the Pats look like a Good team.  SB Team? I think they are a few players away from that.

 

As for Jones I think he will be the second best QB from this draft. I see Wilson, Lance being busts with Lawrence as the stud QB and Fields being an OK starter IF they get a real HC in Chicago. 

 

I dont think Lawrence will ever hit his potential on that team.  Mac by default will end up the best QB from the draft due to both being good and having way better support.

[longtimebillsfan]

10 hours ago, KeLLy1278 said:

Well Matt Cassel did take the Chiefs to the playoffs one year and that had nothing to do with Bill.  Garropolo also has talent but he is fragile and inconsistent.  Both of these QBs are not exactly straight up bums.  They do have some talent.  Bill didn’t really change any of that.  He had Bledsoe in New England and all the papers were calling for his head his second season in.  I think the Pats went like 5-11 and were 0-2 when Brady stepped in so Belichick was already on the hot seat.  How quickly people forget.  It’s almost as though we just eliminate anything that Belichick did before Brady including his forgettable stint with Cleveland.  People tend to forget that as a head coach, Bill accomplished absolutely nothing before Brady.  His winning percentage as head coach was well below .500

 

Yet he’s better than Vince Lombardi, Bill Walsh, Tom Landry, Joe Gibbs and 

I just expressed my opinion.  You are free to disagree, but this is not worth debating.  

Edited November 18, 2021 by longtimebillsfan

[LABILLBACKER]

On 9/22/2021 at 11:27 AM, Success said:

 

This is a good point. I think the chances that Mac becomes an elite QB are slim; he'll probably end up in the Jimmy G mode (who is a good QB, but would likely be better if he was on the Pats still).  

 

But by the time he gets to a point of being more than a game manager, BB might be retired or close to it.  Without BB, it's a whole different equation.

 

He's somewhere between Jimmy G and Baker. He will never strike fear in me but he's the kind of game manager that with a good defense be irritating. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

He's somewhere between Jimmy G and Baker. He will never strike fear in me but he's the kind of game manager that with a good defense be irritating. 

 

Bold talk.

 

 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

Mac Jones has been impressive to me. His strength is clearly reading defenses out. Has a very good understanding how to read defense and put the ball in the right places. I'm liking the Bill's match up soon since they are a smart secondary. But so far Mac has been impressive. So far best rookie in the whole bunch. 

[TBBills]

9 hours ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

The QBs i named still play right? Unless i misunderstood you. You made mentioned to Jones not being mobile enough to succeed like his counterparts. Are his counterparts collecting hardware left and right? I have acknowledged that the league has evolved, i myself wanted Fields over Jones for that very reason, but to sit here and claim he Jones is not gonna be able to win a playoff game, put a team on his back or win a championship because he doesn't have the capabilities of his counterparts is ridiculous. Because 1. he is only a rookie, you don't have a clue what he is going to do or be capable of, and there is much more to the game then having a athletic QB. That's exactly where i'm coming from.

 

You also mentioned being able to slide in the pocket, roll out, etc... Have you watched a Mac Jones game? He exactly does that...he has slide up, slide back in the pocket. They have had design rollouts for him, and he has escaped the pockets to get a few gains and slide down....so he can do enough to avoid the sack (without being mobile), which the term "pocket presence" is a trait a QB needs to have in order to be able to succeed in this league. 

 

 

yea why would you listen to an actual NFL pro baller who is playing in the league right now....(sarcasm) 

 

 

Yea, so i guess all the bills fans who have said something positive about Jones must be a patriots fan to..ha ha....you are making so much sense. i swear (Sarcasm)

No they still have the old mentality of the Patriots being a world beater. You use a lot of sarcasm as if it's a disability for you.

[starrymessenger]

If your a Finns fan Mac Jones is the guy Tua should have been but isn’t. Or maybe that was Justin Herbert. Or maybe anybody else.

Key to shutting him down is to stop the running game, especially on early downs. He is very accurate, throws with touch and anticipation and looks to have a good head on his shoulders, but he is not carrying a team with his arm. 

[Teddy KGB]

10 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Hmmm see I always felt that Carr be a top end QB if he ever got quality coaching. I always felt Gruden was super over rated.

Carr’s been good to great until the Ruggs thing this season.  

[Orlando Tim]

8 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

He's somewhere between Jimmy G and Baker. He will never strike fear in me but he's the kind of game manager that with a good defense be irritating. 

I think he has potential to be somewhere in the 8-12 range of QBs but he will never win games by himself.like Josh.

[DCbillsfan]

Of all the teams with rookie QBs, Mac Jones went to the best team and the best coaching staff.  He went to the best possible situation.  A far better situation than Allen had as a rookie QB.

 

So, Jones has looked pretty good so far in his rookie year.  His strengths seem to be accuracy and decision making.

 

I'm curious to see him play the Bills.  McD's defense tends to confuse young QBs and provide a blue print on how to beat them.  Mike White being the latest victim but it goes back a few years.  I believe Sam Darnold is the lone loss for McD versus rookie QBs.  That's the game Andre Roberts had at least two big kick returns against the Bills.

Edited November 18, 2021 by DCbillsfan

[Success]

11 hours ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

Oh so you are acknowledging there is much more than just having a mobile/athletic QB to win......Thank you. please come back and try to prove me wrong, you do sooo well at it, time and time again. And yea..as great as he is and as much as he has accomplished. If KC didn't have a defense he would not have won a ring. KC needed more than just him in the SB last season. Seeing he doesn't have a defense now again, and he was very lucky when they played the packers Rodgers was not there. Because he, the whole team have been playing very suspect so far. I mean this board had a thread doubt KC being "paper champions" sooo. 

 

Goalpost move.  You were comparing the accomplishments of Brady and Rogers based on what kind of QB each is.

 

"If KC didn't have a defense he would not have won a ring?"  I don't even know what that means. What SB-winning QB would that not be applied to?

 

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, Success said:

 

Goalpost move.  You were comparing the accomplishments of Brady and Rogers based on what kind of QB each is.

 

"If KC didn't have a defense he would not have won a ring?"  I don't even know what that means. What SB-winning QB would that not be applied to?

 

Just take a moment and appreciate that hes on our board to spread the gospel of Mac Jones because the regulars on the Pats board are too dumb for intelligent discussion.  Let that sink in.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

10 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I dont think Lawrence will ever hit his potential on that team.  Mac by default will end up the best QB from the draft due to both being good and having way better support.

 

The only one where they had a solid oline/run game.  Thats basically rookie QB 101 - be able to effectively run the ball and keep your QB standing.  Limits turnovers, keeps you in plus down and distance.  They used all their prior year cap space to get some weapons too, not sure it was the greatest use of money but its a considerable improvement over what they had. 

[Nitro]

Concern?  No.  He is efficient in their offense.  

[PatsFanNH]

45 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said:

Of all the teams with rookie QBs, Mac Jones went to the best team and the best coaching staff.  He went to the best possible situation.  A far better situation than Allen had as a rookie QB.

 

So, Jones has looked pretty good so far in his rookie year.  His strengths seem to be accuracy and decision making.

 

I'm curious to see him play the Bills.  McD's defense tends to confuse young QBs and provide a blue print on how to beat them.  Mike White being the latest victim but it goes back a few years.  I believe Sam Darnold is the lone loss for McD versus rookie QBs.  That's the game Andre Roberts had at least two big kick returns against the Bills.

Great post! I think the games will come down to the Bills stopping the Pats from running, and forcing Jones to pass. 
 

I also think it will come down to the Bills sticking with the run game and not allowing Judon, Baremore etc to just purely pass rush.  IMO that be a recipe for disaster for the Bills.

28 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Just take a moment and appreciate that hes on our board to spread the gospel of Mac Jones because the regulars on the Pats board are too dumb for intelligent discussion.  Let that sink in.

Dude imagine this board if the last time your team was truly horrible happened almost 30 years ago.  So our boards filled with spoiled fans who have never ever even seen tough times never mind truly horrid times like the early 90’s where we would chant for Zolak to start! Lol

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

PLEASE DON’T FEED THE TROLLS 

 

 

[Jauronimo]

25 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

 

Dude imagine this board if the last time your team was truly horrible happened almost 30 years ago.  So our boards filled with spoiled fans who have never ever even seen tough times never mind truly horrid times like the early 90’s where we would chant for Zolak to start! Lol

You're basically describing ChiefsPlanet and they've only been good for 3 years.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 hours ago, KeLLy1278 said:

Well Matt Cassel did take the Chiefs to the playoffs one year and that had nothing to do with Bill.

 

True.  But it probably had a lot to do with Charlie Weiss as his OC, who NOT coincidentally was Brady's OC his first 4 years in NE.  The previous year under Haley and the subsequent year under Bill Muir, Cassel kind of sucked.

 

20 hours ago, KeLLy1278 said:

 Garropolo also has talent but he is fragile and inconsistent.  Both of these QBs are not exactly straight up bums.  They do have some talent.  

 

Both Cassel and Garrapolo have some talent in the sense that they can play in the NFL, sure, but is it fair to say they were or are not "franchise guys"? 

 

Can't speak for the guy you're responding to, but my point would be that a good coach and a good system have helped lift the apparent talent of average guys and help them find (at least a few years) of success where they likely would have fizzled with a crap team and poor coaching. 

 

So to the topic of the thread, yes, Mac Jones shows promise, and I'll wait and see.

 

20 hours ago, KeLLy1278 said:

Bill didn’t really change any of that.  He had Bledsoe in New England and all the papers were calling for his head his second season in.  I think the Pats went like 5-11 and were 0-2 when Brady stepped in so Belichick was already on the hot seat.  How quickly people forget.  It’s almost as though we just eliminate anything that Belichick did before Brady including his forgettable stint with Cleveland.  People tend to forget that as a head coach, Bill accomplished absolutely nothing before Brady.  His winning percentage as head coach was well below .500

 

Au contraire, a lot of people remember that and use it to discredit Belichick.  But just as players can develop and change, so too can coaches.  It's all about how driven they are, and how committed they are to a "growth mindset" and improvement.

 

[BillsFan4]

 

kurt Warner seems impressed.

[PatsFanNH]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

True.  But it probably had a lot to do with Charlie Weiss as his OC, who NOT coincidentally was Brady's OC his first 4 years in NE.  The previous year under Haley and the subsequent year under Bill Muir, Cassel kind of sucked.

 

 

Both Cassel and Garrapolo have some talent in the sense that they can play in the NFL, sure, but is it fair to say they were or are not "franchise guys"? 

 

Can't speak for the guy you're responding to, but my point would be that a good coach and a good system have helped lift the apparent talent of average guys and help them find (at least a few years) of success where they likely would have fizzled with a crap team and poor coaching. 

 

So to the topic of the thread, yes, Mac Jones shows promise, and I'll wait and see.

 

 

Au contraire, a lot of people remember that and use it to discredit Belichick.  But just as players can develop and change, so too can coaches.  It's all about how driven they are, and how committed they are to a "growth mindset" and improvement.

 

IMO the reason so many “great” College QBs fail is because they go to a terrible team and usually a rookie or inexperience HC.  I agree with you that Jones is succeeding here because of BB and McDaniels and dare say any of the other 5 minus Wilson probably would look ok. The one thing IMO Jones is better at than any of them is processing what he sees on the field fast. You can’t teach or coach that. 

[BillsFan4]

37 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

IMO the reason so many “great” College QBs fail is because they go to a terrible team and usually a rookie or inexperience HC.  I agree with you that Jones is succeeding here because of BB and McDaniels and dare say any of the other 5 minus Wilson probably would look ok. The one thing IMO Jones is better at than any of them is processing what he sees on the field fast. You can’t teach or coach that. 

I agree that many college QBs fail because they’re set up to fail by the teams that draft them. Also agree that the Patriots know how to put a QB in position to have success (better than most teams do, if not all). 

 

Not sure I agree that you can’t teach a player how to process what they’re seeing faster. We see QBs improve on that all the time. Look at Josh Allen from year 1 to 2 to 3. We see a lot of young QBs come into the NFL and have trouble getting through their reads, only to improve over time. Even the best QBs improved at more quickly processing what they see over time. I watched Tom Brady greatly improve at it over the years. Some of it just comes down to experience with NFL defensive looks and film study (etc).

 

Now obviously not every QB can improve in that area. Many never do.

But it is an area of common improvement for many starting NFL QBs IMO.

 

I do think that Mac Jones appears to be way ahead of the curve at processing what he’s seeing as a rookie. Is it at a special level? I think that’s TBD.

 

I have no issue saying that I’m worried about how good this kid is going to be. I hate that he fell right into NE’s lap, especially without even having to trade up! 🤬 😂. He’s such a perfect fit for your team and looks like he could be really good for many years to come. As a rookie he’s already the 2nd best QB in the AFCE.

 

Im really anxious to see how he does against the Bills defense. They’re excellent at disguising coverage. It’ll be a good test for Jones, and the Bills too.

The battle for the AFCE this year could be really intense between the Bills and Pats. Should be interesting for sure.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, Ghost_002! said:

Oh so you are acknowledging there is much more than just having a mobile/athletic QB to win......Thank you. please come back and try to prove me wrong, you do sooo well at it, time and time again. And yea..as great as he is and as much as he has accomplished. If KC didn't have a defense he would not have won a ring. KC needed more than just him in the SB last season. Seeing he doesn't have a defense now again, and he was very lucky when they played the packers Rodgers was not there. Because he, the whole team have been playing very suspect so far. I mean this board had a thread doubt KC being "paper champions" sooo. 

 

"Paper Tigers".  "Paper Champions" isn't a thing, though I suppose it could be.

 

What exactly are we supposed to be "proving you wrong" about?  Every Championship team needs a good defense, usually a top-10 defense on points that peaks at the end of the season. 

 

The years the Pats won the Superbowls their D was 7th, 1st, 8th, 2nd, 1st, 6th

 

A QB also needs a sound OL too.  For years, the Pat's secret weapon was "Coach Scar", long-time OL coach Dante Scarnecchia who had the ability to mold cutout bin scraps and JAGs into a solid OL anchored by a long-time center and LT

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

I agree that many college QBs fail because they’re set up to fail by the teams that draft them. Also agree that the Patriots know how to put a QB in position to have success (better than most teams do, if not all). 

 

Not sure I agree that you can’t teach a player how to process what they’re seeing faster. We see QBs improve on that all the time. Look at Josh Allen from year 1 to 2 to 3. We see a lot of young QBs come into the NFL and have trouble getting through their reads, only to improve over time. Even the best QBs improved at more quickly processing what they see over time. I watched Tom Brady greatly improve at it over the years. Some of it just comes down to experience with NFL defensive looks and film study (etc).

 

Now obviously not every QB can improve in that area. Many never do.

But it is an area of common improvement for many starting NFL QBs IMO.

 

I do think that Mac Jones appears to be way ahead of the curve at processing what he’s seeing as a rookie. Is it at a special level? I think that’s TBD.

 

I have no issue saying that I’m worried about how good this kid is going to be. I hate that he fell right into NE’s lap, especially without even having to trade up! 🤬 😂. He’s such a perfect fit for your team and looks like he could be really good for many years to come. As a rookie he’s already the 2nd best QB in the AFCE.

 

Im really anxious to see how he does against the Bills defense. They’re excellent at disguising coverage. It’ll be a good test for Jones, and the Bills too.

The battle for the AFCE this year could be really intense between the Bills and Pats. Should be interesting for sure.

Question.. is learning to read defenses taught or something a QB just learns threw time? (Via game film and personal knowledge.). Also I called Jones elite, but elite in the area of being a rookie and processing, (not that he is better than say Allen or Brady or many vets)  I heard a few talking heads say he was the best at this skill than any other rookie QB as well. 
 

this season is definitely a two team race for the East. I expect the Bills pull it off because they have the experience but I’ll still cheer hard for my Pats prove me wrong.  

[bigduke6]

am i worried about Mac Jones?  not as of right now.   he really isnt doing all that much tbh.  the Pats are playing well mostly due to the running game and defense.    in the future?  mbe.  hes a rookie,  and against elite defenses he will struggle much more than he has.  i consider the Bills D more than capable enough to shut him down if he needs to throw for 30+ times.   right now,  im more worried about the Pats run game tbh.

[Mr. WEO]

wake me when Jones learns the "toe pop"...

[TheFunPolice]

I've come to realize that my deep, unbridled hatred of NE was due to Brady.

 

Now I just don't feel anything as it relates to them. They're just like the Chargers to me now: good team, good record, in our way. But I just don't feel the hate. That's all gone to Tampa Bay now. 

 

IN FACT, Mac Jones being decent and NE being good (but not too good) just takes away from the "it was all Brady" narrative, so I don't mind at all, so long as we beat them when it matters. 

[bigduke6]

25 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

I've come to realize that my deep, unbridled hatred of NE was due to Brady.

 

Now I just don't feel anything as it relates to them. They're just like the Chargers to me now: good team, good record, in our way. But I just don't feel the hate. That's all gone to Tampa Bay now. 

 

IN FACT, Mac Jones being decent and NE being good (but not too good) just takes away from the "it was all Brady" narrative, so I don't mind at all, so long as we beat them when it matters. 

im the opposite here,   Brady doesnt bother me,  Belichick still does.    until hes gone i wont give up my hatred of NE.    hes a very good coach,  i still wonder how much of his early success was being good,  or being dirty.  ie,  cheating.    theres always been alot of smoke swirling around his time in NE.  where theres smoke,  theres usually fire.   hes been caught,  but has he really been caught?   usually we only see the very outside of the whole picture.  taping peoples practices was pretty low tho.     

[Success]

33 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

I've come to realize that my deep, unbridled hatred of NE was due to Brady.

 

Now I just don't feel anything as it relates to them. They're just like the Chargers to me now: good team, good record, in our way. But I just don't feel the hate. That's all gone to Tampa Bay now. 

 

IN FACT, Mac Jones being decent and NE being good (but not too good) just takes away from the "it was all Brady" narrative, so I don't mind at all, so long as we beat them when it matters. 

 

I wish I felt that way.  I actually realized when Brady left that it was more about BB & the fans there.  I didn't mind Brady at all once he was in Tampa.

 

Boston sports in general is a nemesis for me, being a Yankees & Knicks fan also.  Their teams have had such enormous success over the past 20 or so.  The fans are cartoonishly arrogant - which I suppose would happen to any fanbase, but it's still annoying.

 

[Heitz]

Officially Concerned (tm)

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

In order of concern:

*
Mac Jones.

*
Mack the Knife

[RoyBatty is alive]

Yes.  

 

After all the Brady non-sense the anti-Christ Belichek lucks out with Mac Jones dropping to him.

 

I am starting to that Mac Jones and that arrogant smirk.

[BillsFan4]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

Question.. is learning to read defenses taught or something a QB just learns threw time? (Via game film and personal knowledge.). Also I called Jones elite, but elite in the area of being a rookie and processing, (not that he is better than say Allen or Brady or many vets)  I heard a few talking heads say he was the best at this skill than any other rookie QB as well. 
 

this season is definitely a two team race for the East. I expect the Bills pull it off because they have the experience but I’ll still cheer hard for my Pats prove me wrong.  

I think it’s both. Learning to read a defense is definitely something that is taught but I also think it’s something that improves through time.

 

Coaches teach QBs how to read different defensive coverages, where their passing windows are, how to identify reads and pre + post snap coverages, etc.

 

for ex:

 

https://www.collegeandmagnolia.com/2015/7/27/8974817/how-gus-malzahn-teaches-quarterbacks-to-recognize-defensive-coverages

 

But I do think that some QBs are more naturally gifted at it. Some just seem to be able to process what they’re seeing quicker than others.

 

Jones does seem gifted when it comes to processing the game. But I’m also sure it’s helped him to be around 2 of the best defensive minds in football (Saban and Belichick). I’d imagine both had plenty of pointers on how to dissect a defense.

and he sounds like a student of the game who puts in a ton of work (always in the playbook, always studying film, always practicing). 

 

Josh Allen has talked about how much Brian Daboll has helped him understand how to read defenses and what cues to look for, how to dissect coverages, etc. He said his intimate knowledge on the workings of the defense (from being a defensive coach) has been invaluable. He also talked about how different people have helped him learn how to watch film “better”. He didn’t receive much high level coaching before the NFL though, so he was behind the curve.

 

 

Yeah the Buffalo vs. New England games this year are going to be really exciting (and nerve-racking I’m sure). Those 2 games are going to be crucial for either team to win the division, and maybe even make the playoffs with how jumbled the AFC standings are this year. I could definitely see us splitting those 2 games (1-1). 

[without a drought]

My ankle is a little concerned about him.

[FilthyBeast]

PFF has Mac Jones graded as the #1 QB in the NFL against zone coverage at 91.3 overall.

 

To say this should be a major concern against Frazier and McD's defense is an understatement.

 

I'm utterly mystified how this guy can be so good and the Pats apparently didn't need to wait until the 6th round this time to find another Brady.

[KeLLy1278]

40 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Yes.  

 

After all the Brady non-sense the anti-Christ Belichek lucks out with Mac Jones dropping to him.

 

I am starting to that Mac Jones and that arrogant smirk.

He talks like a programmed robot void of any personality whatsoever.  Belichick probably just sat him down and said “you are going to say one of five things to the media no matter what they ask you, and here’s what they are.”  
 

I’ve heard some people ask if the Pats can win a SB with Jones.  The answer is a resounding yes.  I have seen Denver win a SB with Peyton Manning who was a complete shell of himself.  The defense was both the offense & defense on that team.  Now.. that was obviously a furious defense that didn’t even allow opposing teams to run an offense.  
 

To sum this up I said it before and I’ll say it again.. others have already mentioned it:  Let’s not be prisoners of the moment.  The kid is a rookie who happens to be performing well thus far.  No more, no less.  Let’s not put him in the hall of fame just yet.

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

IMO the reason so many “great” College QBs fail is because they go to a terrible team and usually a rookie or inexperience HC.  I agree with you that Jones is succeeding here because of BB and McDaniels and dare say any of the other 5 minus Wilson probably would look ok. The one thing IMO Jones is better at than any of them is processing what he sees on the field fast. You can’t teach or coach that. 

Jones absolutely is a fast processor but it's absolutely something that is learnable 

 

The majority of all QBs improve in this department as they get experience and see more defense's 

 

Allen absolutely struggled as a rookie their and has grown leaps and bounds ... 10 fold improvement

[PatsFanNH]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Jones absolutely is a fast processor but it's absolutely something that is learnable 

 

The majority of all QBs improve in this department as they get experience and see more defense's 

 

Allen absolutely struggled as a rookie their and has grown leaps and bounds ... 10 fold improvement

I am asking so please don’t take this as an attack.. my question is can he still be fooled by the better D’s in the league? I know P Mannin and Brady for like the last 10 years they can have off games but rarely are fooled by a D. Has Allen elevated there yet? 
 

As for Jones I see a long career for him as long as he keeps the quick release and reads going, and improving.  That’s the one way he is very Brady like is the fast release. (No he isn’t Brady or as good as Brady but has that trait)