Jim Kelly Was Better Than Brady Imo..

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

Anybody else ever notice how some of the greatest players to ever play their sports were completely overlooked at some point in there careers…

 

Jordan, Brady, Favre, even Kelly to a certain extent as his dream school, Penn St, wanted him to play Linebacker, … which by the way I love Jim, but cmon… not even close.

 

But more importantly, back to my point of the greats being overlooked… that’s pretty much been the story of Josh’s entire football life and career up until he got that mega extension.  I think as great as Jim was, we might be witnessing the beginnings of a very special story just really starting to unfold here in Western NY.

 

Eventually the conversation will be Brady or Josh?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 9/5/2021 at 2:28 PM, Billsfanatic8989 said:

Admittedly I'm a huge Bills fan. My happiness is dependent upon them winning or losing a game. I will get that out of the way. And no...Kelly isn't close to Brady's accomplishments. But it's a team game.

 

But...I have Kelly ahead of him all time. Why? Kelly faced fierce defenders and wasn't bailed out by refs. Kelly was innovative. The K gun offense changed football. And lastly, Kelly didn't cheat. No spygate or deflategate.

 

I know I am going to be laughed at by some. But are there any of you that put Kelly>Brady all time?

 

My top 5 QB's ever:

Montana

Manning

Kelly

Elway

Marino

jim was very slightly more athletic than Tom.

 

tom is a better more accurate passer, better at reading defenses and waaaaaaaaaay better at preparing for the next game. 

No. Jim was good, nobody ever accused him of being the greatest 

[BigAl2526]

Jim Kelly was more likeable, at least late in his career, but Brady's collection of Super Bowl rings says he is better.

Edited September 7, 2021 by BigAl2526

[Teddy KGB]

You’re only about 5,000 % wrong 

[billsintaiwan]

Comparing qbs from different decades is an exercise in futility.

 

Tom Brady v. Joe Dufek is easy, mind you.

 

Tom Brady v. Joe Montana isn't.

Joe Montana v. Otto Graham isn't.

 

The last ten or fifteen years have probably been the easiest time to play qb in the history of the NFL. I'd say it started getting significantly safer when intentional grounding outside the pocket was allowed.

 

Yes, the athletes on defense are better than ever, but they are on offense as well.

Edited September 7, 2021 by billsintaiwan

[Gugny]

Any best QB of all time list that has Jim Kelly in the top 10 is inaccurate.

 

Any best QB of all time list that has Jim Kelly in the top 5 could only be made by a Bills fan.

[Gordio]

On 9/5/2021 at 2:54 PM, Jpsredemption said:

Brady is the best to ever play the game hands down no debate. Not even close. 

 

 

This.  Brady is the best of all time, Kelly isn't even in the top 10.  Just stop with this nonsense.  

[Pete]

put the bottle down, take off the rose colored glasses

[Greg S]

16 minutes ago, Gugny said:

Any best QB of all time list that has Jim Kelly in the top 10 is inaccurate.

 

Any best QB of all time list that has Jim Kelly in the top 5 could only be made by a Bills fan.

 

I agree 100%. Kelly was a great QB for the Bills but he is not in the top 10. Top 15 probably but not top 10. Even though we don't like him Brady is the GOAT.

[auburnbillsbacker]

On 9/5/2021 at 2:54 PM, Jpsredemption said:

Brady is the best to ever play the game hands down no debate. Not even close. 

Mahomes is better.  You can take Brady's best 3 years and compare them to Mahomes only 3 seasons and Mahomes comes up on top.  He has been to the AFC championship game every year he has been the starter.  Brady is likely the 2nd best QB in my lifetime (I was born in 77).  Kelly was great, but further down the list.  

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

Mahomes is better.  You can take Brady's best 3 years and compare them to Mahomes only 3 seasons and Mahomes comes up on top.  He has been to the AFC championship game every year he has been the starter.  Brady is likely the 2nd best QB in my lifetime (I was born in 77).  Kelly was great, but further down the list.  

 

Seven Super Bowl championships say otherwise. I doubt we ever see this again. As a Bills fan I don't like the guy obviously but he is the GOAT. 

[auburnbillsbacker]

3 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

Seven Super Bowl championships say otherwise. I doubt we ever see this again. As a Bills fan I don't like the guy obviously but he is the GOAT. 

It's a team sport and Mahomes can't have 7 wins when he has only played 3 seasons.  He's playing at a higher level than Brady in his prime.

[Greg S]

3 minutes ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

It's a team sport and Mahomes can't have 7 wins when he has only played 3 seasons.  He's playing at a higher level than Brady in his prime.

 

Let's hope Allen can play at a higher level than both of them. I would love for Josh to accomplish what Brady has done but I would settle for a career like Ben has had. If Josh can lead to the Bills to 2 Super Bowl championships with more winning seasons than losing ones then I will be very happy.

[skibum]

Nope, sorry. Not by any measure, except that I would rather have a beer with Jim Kelly. 

[Orlando Tim]

When this topic comes up the main contention is how do we rank Brady and his accomplishments vs the cheating. If the cheating does not bother you then he is the best ever. If blatant and repeated cheating does bother you then he is not even top 10, I do not see any middle ground here. Few in baseball consider Barry Bonds the greatest of all time because he cheated, despite being an MVP before he ever cheated but for some reason Brady gets a pass from many football fans.

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

When this topic comes up the main contention is how do we rank Brady and his accomplishments vs the cheating. If the cheating does not bother you then he is the best ever. If blatant and repeated cheating does bother you then he is not even top 10, I do not see any middle ground here. Few in baseball consider Barry Bonds the greatest of all time because he cheated, despite being an MVP before he ever cheated but for some reason Brady gets a pass from many football fans.

 

I think the cheating aspect of it will hurt Belichick more so than Brady. Bill's record without Tom isn't that impressive. Brady goes to Tampa and wins another championship without Bill.

[Orlando Tim]

1 minute ago, Greg S said:

 

I think the cheating aspect of it will hurt Belichick more so than Brady. Bill's record without Tom isn't that impressive. Brady goes to Tampa and wins another championship without Bill.

I understand your point but the primary beneficiary of the cheating was Brady, being able to know where the blitz was coming from is a huge advantage. I also doubt he did not know about the spying. But as I said if the fact that his entire early legacy would not exist except for the worst cheating scandal in NFL history does not bother you he has to be #1. 

[Rigotz]

Tom Brady: 606 Total Touchdowns, 191 Interceptions

Jim Kelly: 237 Touchdowns, 175 Interceptions

 

Stop.

 

 

[May Day 10]

Best QBs of all time:

 

1. Jim Kelly

2. Peyton Manning

3. Doug Flutie

4. Josh Allen

5. Tom Brady

6. Johnny Unitas

7. QB Bills

8. Dan Marino

9. John Elway

10. Joey Harrington

[Nextmanup]

14 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

jim was very slightly more athletic than Tom.

 

tom is a better more accurate passer, better at reading defenses and waaaaaaaaaay better at preparing for the next game. 

No. Jim was good, nobody ever accused him of being the greatest 

I think it's kind of ridiculous to suggest Kelly was more athletic than anyone.

 

I always used to laugh when the broadcast guys would talk about how he was slated to be a linebacker at PSU.  How was that possible?  He had nothing close to the speed to play LB at that level for a major school power.  No way was that going to happen.

 

Tom Brady is deceptively athletic, but it doesn't matter.  His skill is that he's CONSISTENT, and bring a mental component to the QB position Kelly couldn't dream of possessing.

 

The game is about 10 million times more complicated now, compared to Kelly's era.

 

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

20 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I think it's kind of ridiculous to suggest Kelly was more athletic than anyone.

 

I always used to laugh when the broadcast guys would talk about how he was slated to be a linebacker at PSU.  How was that possible?  He had nothing close to the speed to play LB at that level for a major school power.  No way was that going to happen.

 

Tom Brady is deceptively athletic, but it doesn't matter.  His skill is that he's CONSISTENT, and bring a mental component to the QB position Kelly couldn't dream of possessing.

 

The game is about 10 million times more complicated now, compared to Kelly's era.

 

 

 

 

You might think it’s ridiculous, but he was recruited to penn state as a scholarship  linebacker by Paterno and led his high school basketball team to states averaging 20+ points per game. 

[LabattBlue]

Enquiring minds want to know…are we talking about Jim Kelly or Jimmy Kelly?

 

[PatsFanNH]

22 hours ago, Dr.Mantis_Toboggan said:

Anybody else ever notice how some of the greatest players to ever play their sports were completely overlooked at some point in there careers…

 

Jordan, Brady, Favre, even Kelly to a certain extent as his dream school, Penn St, wanted him to play Linebacker, … which by the way I love Jim, but cmon… not even close.

 

But more importantly, back to my point of the greats being overlooked… that’s pretty much been the story of Josh’s entire football life and career up until he got that mega extension.  I think as great as Jim was, we might be witnessing the beginnings of a very special story just really starting to unfold here in Western NY.

 

Eventually the conversation will be Brady or Josh?

Let Allen be Allen and not start talking like that.  If Allen makes say 4 SB and wins 2.. I think most here would crown him king of Buffalo. 

[BigDingus]

11 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

Best QBs of all time:

 

1. Jim Kelly

2. Peyton Manning

3. Doug Flutie

4. Josh Allen

5. Tom Brady

6. Johnny Unitas

7. QB Bills

8. Dan Marino

9. John Elway

10. Joey Harrington

 

#7 is particularly underrated. I mean c'mon, he won us that game that one time against that team that mattered! 

Edited September 8, 2021 by BigDingus

[papazoid]

umm...NO !

 

if only jim would have shown the personal discipline to health, nutrition and lifestyle. things could have turned out so much better.

 

alas, too much alcohol and partying. he was far from the only bill. what a shame

[Greg S]

19 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

Best QBs of all time:

 

1. Jim Kelly

2. Peyton Manning

3. Doug Flutie

4. Josh Allen

5. Tom Brady

6. Johnny Unitas

7. QB Bills

8. Dan Marino

9. John Elway

10. Joey Harrington

 

Just off the top of my head....Brady, Manning, Marino, Elway, Brees, Montana, Young are better than Kelly. I think Jim was a great Bill but he is probably in the top 15 when it comes to best QB's if you make a list and keep the opinions objective.

[PromoTheRobot]

On 9/5/2021 at 2:28 PM, Billsfanatic8989 said:

Admittedly I'm a huge Bills fan. My happiness is dependent upon them winning or losing a game. I will get that out of the way. And no...Kelly isn't close to Brady's accomplishments. But it's a team game.

 

But...I have Kelly ahead of him all time. Why? Kelly faced fierce defenders and wasn't bailed out by refs. Kelly was innovative. The K gun offense changed football. And lastly, Kelly didn't cheat. No spygate or deflategate.

 

I know I am going to be laughed at by some. But are there any of you that put Kelly>Brady all time?

 

My top 5 QB's ever:

Montana

Manning

Kelly

Elway

Marino

 

Ring count says no.

[Beast]

19 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I think it's kind of ridiculous to suggest Kelly was more athletic than anyone.

 

I always used to laugh when the broadcast guys would talk about how he was slated to be a linebacker at PSU.  How was that possible?  He had nothing close to the speed to play LB at that level for a major school power.  No way was that going to happen.

 

Tom Brady is deceptively athletic, but it doesn't matter.  His skill is that he's CONSISTENT, and bring a mental component to the QB position Kelly couldn't dream of possessing.

 

The game is about 10 million times more complicated now, compared to Kelly's era.

 

 

 

 

 

First, you are dead ass wrong about Kelly and PSU. The fact is, Paterno wanted him as a LBer. Just like his brother, Pat,  played LBer in college and in the NFL.

 

Two, as to the game is so much more complicated now,....look at the stats from QB's today to 30 years ago. In 1991, one QB, Warren Moon, threw for over 4,000 yards. Last yearin the NFL, FOURTEEN QB's did that. I'd ventuare to say because it ismuch easier to play QB now than it ever has.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Beast

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

 

First, you are dead ass wrong about Kelly and PSU. The fact is, Paterno wanted him as a LBer. Just like his brother player LBer in college.

 

Two, as to the game is so much more complicated now,....look at the stats from QB's today to 30 years ago. In 1991, one QB, Warren Moon, threw for over 4,000 yards. Last yearin the NFL, FOURTEEN QB's did that. I'd ventuare to say because it ismuch easier to play QB now than it ever has.

 

Defenses can't play defense anymore. Watching CFB over the weekend it seemed like every hard hit was called for "targeting". Players were getting ejected one right after the other. I am all for player safety but many of these hits are just good football hits and not dirty in any way.

[May Day 10]

34 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

Just off the top of my head....Brady, Manning, Marino, Elway, Brees, Montana, Young are better than Kelly. I think Jim was a great Bill but he is probably in the top 15 when it comes to best QB's if you make a list and keep the opinions objective.

 

I think Kelly is very tricky to place.

 

Id say a lot/all of those guys you listed, but you also need to add Rivers and Rodgers.

 

Also, Eli Manning, Kurt Warner, Bradshaw, Favre, Staubach, Aikman, Warren Moon, Tarkenton, Rothlisberger all have a pretty strong case to be made as well as old timers Unitas, Graham, Baugh, Starr, Bobby Layne

 

 

And now we have an endless crop of superhero quarterbacks that look like they are going to make our entire list look like chumps.

Edited September 8, 2021 by May Day 10

[Royale with Cheese]

20 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I think it's kind of ridiculous to suggest Kelly was more athletic than anyone.

 

I always used to laugh when the broadcast guys would talk about how he was slated to be a linebacker at PSU.  How was that possible?  He had nothing close to the speed to play LB at that level for a major school power.  No way was that going to happen.

 

Tom Brady is deceptively athletic, but it doesn't matter.  His skill is that he's CONSISTENT, and bring a mental component to the QB position Kelly couldn't dream of possessing.

 

The game is about 10 million times more complicated now, compared to Kelly's era.

 

 

 

 

 

Kelly was a great athlete.  He was not only a top football player in Pennsylvania, he also an All State Basketball player...played guard.  In his senior year, he averaged 23 ppg and 20 rebounds per game.  

 

Penn State was a powerhouse back then.  Do you think Paterno saw Kelly and said "he's slow and unathletic...lets put him at linebacker"?

 

Passing was easier in Kelly's era???

Edited September 8, 2021 by Royale with Cheese

[Greg S]

6 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

I think Kelly is very tricky to place.

 

Id say a lot/all of those guys you listed, but you also need to add Rivers and Rodgers.

 

Also, Eli Manning, Kurt Warner, Bradshaw, Favre, Staubach, Aikman, Warren Moon, Tarkenton, Rothlisberger all have a pretty strong case to be made as well as old timers Unitas, Graham, Baugh, Starr, Bobby Layne

 

 

And now we have an endless crop of superhero quarterbacks that look like they are going to make our entire list look like chumps.

 

When its all said and done Allen will have every Bills QB record assuming he stays healthy and plays his entire career with the Bills. Looking at your list I forgot to mention Moon, Favre as well. I didn't include players still playing(except Brady as he is the GOAT) though just retired ones.

[Beast]

1 hour ago, Greg S said:

 

Defenses can't play defense anymore. Watching CFB over the weekend it seemed like every hard hit was called for "targeting". Players were getting ejected one right after the other. I am all for player safety but many of these hits are just good football hits and not dirty in any way.

 

That is correct. That is why it is much easier for any offensive player, especially QB, to play the game today compared to 20-30 years ago.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, Beast said:

 

That is correct. That is why it is much easier for any offensive player, especially QB, to play the game today compared to 20-30 years ago.

Both can be true.  There is no doubt the rules changes have helped the offense. However, modern NFL QB's have been training to play QB in passing offenses since middle school.  That wasn't the case in the 1980's.  They were running the option in HS and college.  Very few pro-style offenses in college let alone HS back then.  The number of good quality QB's is just greater than it was in the 1980's and certainly in the 1970's.  

[RobbRiddick]

20 hours ago, BTB said:

Enquiring minds want to know…are we talking about Jim Kelly or Jimmy Kelly?

 

 

Jim Kelly all the way.

 

 

And, to the OP, I say man, you come right out of a comic book

[FilthyBeast]

Jim Kelly was an all time great and will always hold a special place in Buffalo even if Allen (or someone else) ever wins a SB here but he's nowhere close to Brady, Montana, Manning, etc if anything because he doesn't have any rings on his resume.

 

Some will argue Marino was better despite only one SB appearance in his career.

 

I mentioned this in another thread recently but as good as Kelly was, his career high in passing yards for a single season was @3800 yards (91). He also only threw for 30+ TD's once (also 91). Sure the game was a bit different during his prime 30 years ago but those are very average at best numbers in todays league.

[buffalostu2]

The hardest thing to do as a QB is to break into the league and stay.  I call it the QB curve.   Brady never had to do it like the others because they were stealing signs and letting him know what coverages and where the blitzers were coming from.  Brady didn't even have a 2:1 Td to INT ration until his 5th year.

 

He developed into a great QB but to be called the best, no, you have to pay your dues and he cheated that.  He is the most accomplished when all is said and done.   How he did it, he has to look in the mirror about and all the cash in the world doesn't change that.

 

Maybe I'm old but there should be integrity in sports IMO.

 

 

[Success]

6 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Ring count says no.

 

I haven't read through the whole thread - but the "rings" argument is a bad one. 

 

There is the obvious "Is Dilfer better than Marino?"  But beyond that, this isn't tennis or golf, or even basketball.

 

Put Brady on the Packers w/ McCarthy as his coach and a less sound team overall - does he have more rings than Rogers?  Does BB only have 1 ring if Rogers is his QB instead of Brady?

 

A lot of things went wrong for Kelly to not have any rings - and most of those were things out of his control.  If Norwood makes that FG, what happens?  Do they easily handle the Redskins the next year, and then split w/ the Cowboys because a 10,000 lb. monkey isn't on their back at that point?

 

 

[PatsFanNH]

4 hours ago, Beast said:

 

That is correct. That is why it is much easier for any offensive player, especially QB, to play the game today compared to 20-30 years ago.

Which is why I hate comparing eras. Otto Graham football was different than Terry Bradshaw who was different than Montana which was vastly different than Brady! That’s why I say Brady is one of the greatest and IMO the GOAT, because it’s just that an opinion.  They were all great and the game so different. (Let’s face it Bradshaw got hit harder than Kelly and Marino lol)

[Beast]

5 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Which is why I hate comparing eras. Otto Graham football was different than Terry Bradshaw who was different than Montana which was vastly different than Brady! That’s why I say Brady is one of the greatest and IMO the GOAT, because it’s just that an opinion.  They were all great and the game so different. (Let’s face it Bradshaw got hit harder than Kelly and Marino lol)

 

I can't stand Brady but I agree that he is the GOAT. He has Championships to be measured against and played in a league with 31 other teams in a salary cap era.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Beast