Ben Roethlisberger pre-snap tell run vs pass

[CorkScrewHill]

I wonder if this was picked up by the Bills, it appears that it is incredibly accurate and has been going on for years.

 

"As pointed out by @theoashnfl on TikTok and explained by Joe Hoefling of Deadspin.com, Roethlisberger has a very basic yet very clear pre-snap tell, which gives away whether the next play will be a run or a pass."

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/ben-roethlisberger-pre-snap-run-125226645.html

 

You would think if it was well known they would have done poorly offensively (e.g., line knows to rush the passer / attack the RB, safeties and LBers can focus on coverage or run support).

 

If I was a GM I would crowd source film review .. get the fans involved to look for these things on my team as well as the opponents.

[Kwai San]

6 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

If I was a GM I would crowd source film review .. get the fans involved to look for these things on my team as well as the opponents.

 

This can go both ways and lead to analysis paralysis.  That and how can you be sure your audience doesn't have ulterior motives?

[CorkScrewHill]

32 minutes ago, Kwai San said:

 

This can go both ways and lead to analysis paralysis.  That and how can you be sure your audience doesn't have ulterior motives?

There are many ways to approach that, on of which would be to look for common themes (a system could do this) and then float the most likely to the top of the queue for somebody internal to the team to review.

[Bangarang]

This reminds me of when Tannehill was in Miami and had a similar tell. During his pre-snap cadence, he would either say “Go Go!” or “Go!” before the ball was snapped. If I remember correctly, “Go Go” was always a run and “Go” was a pass. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

If you look close enough at any QB, many of them do similar things pre-snap. There are some games where I can tell right away from the pre-snap body language or body position whether it is a handoff or not. 

[blacklabel]

18 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

If you look close enough at any QB, many of them do similar things pre-snap. There are some games where I can tell right away from the pre-snap body language or body position whether it is a handoff or not. 

Rodgers sometimes forgets to snap his chin strap back on and every time he does it’s a run play lol

Edited July 14, 2021 by blacklabel

[CaptnCoke11]

If some weenie on tiktok knows this I’m pretty sure someone on the Steelers staff has also figured this out as well.  

[TroutDog]

Didn’t P Manning say something similar about Josh prior to last year?

[LeGOATski]

34 minutes ago, TroutDog said:

Didn’t P Manning say something similar about Josh prior to last year?

Regarding his hard count, yeah. He always kept his hands up.

[maddenboy]

and why couldnt this wait to come out until AFTER we play them in week 1?

 

Maybe the silver lining will be Ben being overly self-conscious.

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

If you look close enough at any QB, many of them do similar things pre-snap. There are some games where I can tell right away from the pre-snap body language or body position whether it is a handoff or not. 

 

1 hour ago, blacklabel said:

Rodgers sometimes forgets to snap his chin strap back on and every time he does it’s a run play lol

Yep, some qbs will not buckle the strap on a run... And subconsciously strap it up for a pass 

 

Some qbs Will leave the mouthpiece out for a run, and put it in for a pass 

 

It's like a subconscious thing that they don't even recognize

[Wacka]

2 hours ago, blacklabel said:

Rodgers sometimes forgets to snap his chin strap back on and every time he does it’s a run play lol

I heard the same about either Tony Dorsett or Emmit Smith in their rookie year. If his strap was unbuckled, he wasn't getting the ball. A coach finally noticed and afterwards their running game improved greatly.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Wacka

[Augie]

7 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

If you look close enough at any QB, many of them do similar things pre-snap. There are some games where I can tell right away from the pre-snap body language or body position whether it is a handoff or not. 

 

Was it Bernie Kosar who would sometimes have his feet even at the snap and sometimes have one foot back? One was a run, the other a pass. You’d think the Browns would have self-scouted that and FIXED IT. (Not positive it was him, but an important tell for somebody.) 

 

 

.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Augie

[MJS]

3 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

If you look close enough at any QB, many of them do similar things pre-snap. There are some games where I can tell right away from the pre-snap body language or body position whether it is a handoff or not. 

 

2 hours ago, blacklabel said:

Rodgers sometimes forgets to snap his chin strap back on and every time he does it’s a run play lol

We have to remember that as fans watching the game, we often have better views of the QB and other things than the players do themselves. Not everyone on the defense has a view of the QB and can read his body language, especially when they are trying to focus on their individual assignments. Often your focus is on the player right across from you and how you will beat that player.

 

So certain things that we pick up from our eye in the sky might take longer down in the trenches, but absolutely players pick up stuff like that. And I'm sure that there are coaches and personnel that are looking for those things and pass them on when they see them as well.

2 hours ago, maddenboy said:

and why couldnt this wait to come out until AFTER we play them in week 1?

 

Maybe the silver lining will be Ben being overly self-conscious.

If it's anything like last year, they pretty much pass it every single time anyway.

[ticketssince61]

5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Yep, some qbs will not buckle the strap on a run... And subconsciously strap it up for a pass 

 

Some qbs Will leave the mouthpiece out for a run, and put it in for a pass 

 

It's like a subconscious thing that they don't even recognize

 

Wasn't there a baseball player who always adjusted his cap when he was going to try to steal a base?

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

6 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Regarding his hard count, yeah. He always kept his hands up.

It boggles my mind that it wasn't picked up by the coaches and corrected. Was no one in the building exposed to the Manning thing? It made me question the attention to detail of the coaching staff when the issue was discussed publicly, and it's something that's so easily correctable but nothing was done about it.

 

I tried my best... Twitter and calling into One Bills Live

[LeGOATski]

7 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

It boggles my mind that it wasn't picked up by the coaches and corrected. Was no one in the building exposed to the Manning thing? It made me question the attention to detail of the coaching staff when the issue was discussed publicly, and it's something that's so easily correctable but nothing was done about it.

 

I tried my best... Twitter and calling into One Bills Live

Yeah. Thankfully, the hard count ended up working in the playoffs. I forget if it was the Colts or Ravens, but he got a DE to jump for a key 1st down. 

[Big Turk]

10 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

I wonder if this was picked up by the Bills, it appears that it is incredibly accurate and has been going on for years.

 

"As pointed out by @theoashnfl on TikTok and explained by Joe Hoefling of Deadspin.com, Roethlisberger has a very basic yet very clear pre-snap tell, which gives away whether the next play will be a run or a pass."

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/ben-roethlisberger-pre-snap-run-125226645.html

 

You would think if it was well known they would have done poorly offensively (e.g., line knows to rush the passer / attack the RB, safeties and LBers can focus on coverage or run support).

 

If I was a GM I would crowd source film review .. get the fans involved to look for these things on my team as well as the opponents.

 

Like in the movie Safety where the running back gave away the call by tugging on his jersey. 

 

I wonder did a 10 year old kid who is a little brother see it on tape and let the players and coaches know hahaha

[NoSaint]

11 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

I wonder if this was picked up by the Bills, it appears that it is incredibly accurate and has been going on for years.

 

"As pointed out by @theoashnfl on TikTok and explained by Joe Hoefling of Deadspin.com, Roethlisberger has a very basic yet very clear pre-snap tell, which gives away whether the next play will be a run or a pass."

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/ben-roethlisberger-pre-snap-run-125226645.html

 

You would think if it was well known they would have done poorly offensively (e.g., line knows to rush the passer / attack the RB, safeties and LBers can focus on coverage or run support).

 

If I was a GM I would crowd source film review .. get the fans involved to look for these things on my team as well as the opponents.

I wonder the actual level of consistency. 
 

a guy not strapping his helmet is one thing. If Ben’s aware of the trend, he could start using it as a trick. They start selling out on it and suddenly he knows what the defense is doing and they think he’s doing the opposite thing on a big play.

[stuvian]

is this a good time for my left foot jokes?

[JMF2006]

16 hours ago, TroutDog said:

Didn’t P Manning say something similar about Josh prior to last year?

 

Omaha

9 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Yeah. Thankfully, the hard count ended up working in the playoffs. I forget if it was the Colts or Ravens, but he got a DE to jump for a key 1st down. 

 

The Colts game...Kemoko Turay

[fan_in_tx]

From behind the LOS on defense I am not sure it is as easy to pick up a slight heal lift.  Bodies in front of you.. Corner would need to make this call and be able to single loud enough for line and backers to notice. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Edmunds still wouldn't be able to tell it is a run....lol

It's mid-July. Just kidding around folks. Or ....

[John from Riverside]

Ben r He’s going to wish he had retired this year after the bills game

[machine gun kelly]

This was discussed yesterday on MTC with Jim and Pat.  Pat made the point all teams look for this stuff all the time and the likelihood it evaded all defensive coordinators and was some shocking revelation is somewhat unlikely.  What they indicated is maybe it’s found out, but the visibility of potentially leg lift, and in time to make a change is probably why they are not making changes.  They went 11-0 before the problems.

 

their running problems were more about a line that couldn’t open holes, and thus with a crappy line now is going to be a blood bath this year at least in the opener.  We are going to beat them commandingly.  Harris will have his first start with a bad o line.  It’s going to be ugly.

[Royale with Cheese]

Anyone remember Trent Edwards pre-snap giveaway?

 

Any time he would audible in the squatting position and hands low...it was a run.  If he would audible standing up, it was a pass.

Couldn't find a photo of him squatting but this would have been a pass.

I'm guessing on the run plays, he stay lower so the offensive line could hear him better?

 

 

[BillsShredder83]

21 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Anyone remember Trent Edwards pre-snap giveaway?

 

Any time he would audible in the squatting position and hands low...it was a run.  If he would audible standing up, it was a pass.

Couldn't find a photo of him squatting but this would have been a pass.

I'm guessing on the run plays, he stay lower so the offensive line could hear him better?

 

 

What is a Trent Edwards? Sounds like some kind of repressed memory

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, BillsShredder83 said:

What is a Trent Edwards? Sounds like some kind of repressed memory

 

It was.  Man, he was a gutsy, gunslinger of a QB.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 7/14/2021 at 10:08 AM, CorkScrewHill said:

I wonder if this was picked up by the Bills, it appears that it is incredibly accurate and has been going on for years.

 

"As pointed out by @theoashnfl on TikTok and explained by Joe Hoefling of Deadspin.com, Roethlisberger has a very basic yet very clear pre-snap tell, which gives away whether the next play will be a run or a pass."

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/ben-roethlisberger-pre-snap-run-125226645.html

 

You would think if it was well known they would have done poorly offensively (e.g., line knows to rush the passer / attack the RB, safeties and LBers can focus on coverage or run support).

 

If I was a GM I would crowd source film review .. get the fans involved to look for these things on my team as well as the opponents.

 

What I wonder is how easy it is to "tell" what Big Ben's heel is doing from the viewpoint of a defender during the game?

 

22 hours ago, TroutDog said:

Didn’t P Manning say something similar about Josh prior to last year?

 

I think Manning pointed out that Josh did something different with his hands during a hard count if it was going to be a play or were just trying to get the other team to jump.

[bobobonators]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What I wonder is how easy it is to "tell" what Big Ben's heel is doing from the viewpoint of a defender during the game?

 

 

I think Manning pointed out that Josh did something different with his hands during a hard count if it was going to be a play or were just trying to get the other team to jump.

Im not sure what Manning was referring to, but I noticed last year Josh did something with his body pre-snap that gave away whether it was going to be a run or a pass. I was easily able to determine if it was going to be a run from the tv angle. I assume the coaches will address this. I wont bother pointing it out on this forum.

 

I do not recall him doing this prior to last year however i havent gone back and watched film. It became one of those things that once i saw it i couldnt unsee it and it was a give-away. 

[Gugny]

On 7/14/2021 at 1:49 PM, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

If you look close enough at any QB, many of them do similar things pre-snap. There are some games where I can tell right away from the pre-snap body language or body position whether it is a handoff or not. 

 

Suuuuure you can.  Next thing you know, you'll be telling us you can catch a fly with chopsticks!

[Richard Noggin]

12 hours ago, bobobonators said:

Im not sure what Manning was referring to, but I noticed last year Josh did something with his body pre-snap that gave away whether it was going to be a run or a pass. I was easily able to determine if it was going to be a run from the tv angle. I assume the coaches will address this. I wont bother pointing it out on this forum.

 

I do not recall him doing this prior to last year however i havent gone back and watched film. It became one of those things that once i saw it i couldnt unsee it and it was a give-away. 

This gets an exaggerated eye-roll (I know...devastating) unless you provide details. Why would you mention it and NOT be more specific? Your insight could (and I'm truly not being entirely facetious here) greatly help the team. 

[machine gun kelly]

Noggin, you beat me to it.  Bobo, if you really noticed something, then state exactly what you saw.  Otherwise people will call this BS.  I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt so just elaborate.

 

Ive played and coached football for years and never noticed anything.  As I mentioned regarding Ben, I don’t know if any defemsive player on the field with bodies in front of them would ever be able to catch in time.