High praise for Allen, White, Edmunds, Dawkins, and Diggs from NFL Execs, Coaches, and Players.

[Stank_Nasty]

34 minutes ago, IgotBILLStopay said:

Still waiting on Diggs (lock), Beasley (if they have a separate slot receiver ranking), Bass (shd get some votes) & Poyer / Hyde (shd get some votes). Oliver, another Olineman and a young DE (B, E or R) will get some votes next year. 

I highly doubt Bass gets any love until next year. He’s gotta string together a full season. And safeties already went. Both were left out of the top 15. 

[TheBrownBear]

I like how Josh's only "con" is that he's sometimes too competitive and tries to make the best play.   That's like the answer you give in an interview to "what is your biggest weakness?"  Lol.

[Malazan]

2 hours ago, stosh64 said:

People actually pay to read espn?

 

I'm pretty sure insider gets 'thrown in' with a lot of things.. like I think if you get that package that's disney/hulu/espn that you get insiders with it

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

2 hours ago, The Wiz said:

I'd venture to guess someone who doesn't like dogs and American flags and skull and crossbones on our Twitter profile pics. 

That is actually the first guy that came to mind!  

[ganesh]

5 hours ago, Blainorama5 said:

The fact there are multiple top 10 rankings says this is a well built team and those in the NFL agree.  How many other years has that been the case?

We need a blue chip player as a pass rusher.  That is a missing piece of this team. 

5 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

JA17 should be #1

I think coaches will rate.  Rodgers, Brady,  Wilson and may be Watson and Dak ahead of Josh.   

[YoloinOhio]

Oh how the trash cans have turned 

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Oh how the trash cans have turned 

 

Lol, love it when the cookies crumbles that way...

[BruceVilanch]

5 hours ago, stosh64 said:

People actually pay to read espn?

I got it free with verizon, it's actually better than I thought it was going to be, I don't know if I will keep it after the year is over but it is legitimately better than I thought it would be.

[Doc Brown]

If execs think that much of Edmunds trade him now while his stock is high.  Darius Leonard and a first would suffice.

[Buffalo Boy]

5 hours ago, MJS said:

Announcers do usually talk about how good our safeties are, but yeah, they don't go on and on about it. Poyer actually is a pretty good hitter, in my opinion. I seem to remember Hyde having a huge hit on someone last year... anybody remember that?

    One of them ( Poyer,  I think) knocked themselves out hitting Cam on the sideline in the second NE game. I have it DVRd and you can actually see his eyes are rolled back as he hits the ground . He got pulled into the tent .

     

Edited July 13, 2021 by Buffalo Boy

[Process]

We are approaching most overrated player in the league territory with Edmunds

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

18 minutes ago, Process said:

We are approaching most overrated player in the league territory with Edmunds

The players, coaches, and execs that view him as a top LB definitely don’t know more than the posters on TBD! 

[Thurman#1]

 

 

8 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I actually got a chuckle when looking at his highest and lowest ranks. Somebody actually pulled the trigger and had him #1 while others left him completely unranked. lol

 

 

"Unranked" just means outside the top ten. If you had him as the 11th best LB in the league, you wouldn't rank him. So "completely" IMO greatly overstates how negative the act of not ranking him is.

 

On the other hand, I can't understand anyone ranking him #1. He certainly was not better than everyone else in the league, even in the latter half of the year when healthy. IMO, top five is pushing it.

 

I guess the ESPN thing is asking people to predict where these guys will be ranked next year rather than where they are now, so being a bit high or low on anybody is reasonable as you're guessing, you're predicting.

 

1 hour ago, Process said:

We are approaching most overrated player in the league territory with Edmunds

 

 

Nah, it's just that for some reason some Bills fans love to underrate him.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Thurman#1

[YattaOkasan]

6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

No WR , RBs , TEs yet 

 

Porter and Hyde did not make the safeties list.. and neither of them was honorable mention 

 

Minkah Fitzpatrick 

Justin Simmons 

Budda Baker 

Jamal Adams 

Harrison Smith 

Tyrann mathieu 

Kevin byard  

John Johnson III 

Derwin James Jr 

Jessie Bates III 

 

Honorable mentions 

Eddie Jackson 

Marcus maye

Antoine Winfield Jr 

Landon Collins 

Darnell Savage Jr

 

It's honestly a pretty fair top 10, those guys are ballers

 

 

 

I don’t think Jamal Adams on this list is good. Poyer Hyde are both better than him.  Byard also had a down year.  With all the pro bowl snub articles for poyer I would’ve thought he got at least an honorable mention 

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, Process said:

We are approaching most overrated player in the league territory with Edmunds

Not even close.  Zeke Elliott, Matt Judon, Jamal Adams, Andrus Peat, Marshon Lattimore, and Evan Engram off the top of my head.  Edmunds didn't deserve a pro bowl nod this past season though.

[CSBill]

The Diggs snub is confusing.

 

Edmunds is probably a bit over-rated; I would say he is honorable-mention level. He has great athletic tools and his moments; but when watching him every game, you get the feeling there is more there, he hasn't put it all together yet, there is room for more consistency and improvement--especially in his decision making. 

 

. . . And then I remember, "yeah, he is only 23." Time is on our side.

[Stank_Nasty]

2 hours ago, CSBill said:

The Diggs snub is confusing.

 

Edmunds is probably a bit over-rated; I would say he is honorable-mention level. He has great athletic tools and his moments; but when watching him every game, you get the feeling there is more there, he hasn't put it all together yet, there is room for more consistency and improvement--especially in his decision making. 

 

. . . And then I remember, "yeah, he is only 23." Time is on our side.

Wr’s weren’t ranked when I made the original post. I stated that in the post. I’ll update it when they are. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

17 hours ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

I hate to be negative in an otherwise fun topic, but who the hell had Allen ranked 9th?!  

I know. I suppose you could go Mahommes, Rodgers, Brady, Wilson top 4. After that you would have to put guy like Watson, Stafford, Herbert, and I guess Ryan next. I can't see any way Allen is not top 4

[Don Otreply]

All these types of lists are based on biased opinions, (just like our own opinions) there are no absolutes involved, Josh ranked at #9 is because many pundits are still hoping Josh regresses, (the I told you so group) and that it’s the Buffalo Bills after all…  it’s gonna take a SB win and or a few more successful seasons for the stain of the drought years to fade, sad yet true.

 

 Go Bills!!!

[Shaw66]

12 hours ago, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

The players, coaches, and execs that view him as a top LB definitely don’t know more than the posters on TBD! 

I see in Edmunds all the shortcomings others here see in him - doesn't fill gaps, isn't a big hitter, plays the ball poorly on pass defense, etc., etc., but then I ask myself why he is playing every down.   There is only one answer, and that is that McDermott and Frazier see him making a big contribution.   So, I get it when some coach says that he's a nightmare to plan for.   

 

I think there are things going on on the field that most fans, including me, don't see or understand.  In Edmunds' case, I've speculated before that it's the combination of his size and speed, that he simply covers more territory on pass defense because he is a step faster and an arm-length longer that other guys playing the middle of a complicated zone-based defense.  He gets deep faster, he gets to the sideline faster, he closes on running backs faster than most linebackers.  Am I saying he's a great run stopper?  No.   He still misreads running plays sometimes, and he isn't a great tackler.   But I think what coaches see and we don't is that he gets into the vicinity of the play better and more often than most linebackers.  He clogs the middle passing lanes better than most linebackers, because he's faster, taller, and longer.  

 

He's not a standout, highlight-reel star.   I think what he is is a nearly perfect guy to put in the middle of a complex team defense.  

[Beast]

13 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

If execs think that much of Edmunds trade him now while his stock is high.  Darius Leonard and a first would suffice.

 

Yes, let's trade our second best defensive player before a season where we are contenders.

 

The men in the locker room will just LOVE that.

[Shaw66]

32 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

All these types of lists are based on biased opinions, (just like our own opinions) there are no absolutes involved, Josh ranked at #9 is because many pundits are still hoping Josh regresses, (the I told you so group) and that it’s the Buffalo Bills after all…  it’s gonna take a SB win and or a few more successful seasons for the stain of the drought years to fade, sad yet true.

 

 Go Bills!!!

Well, I agree that's true about the press.   But when we're talking about the opinions of coaches and GMs, I disagree.  They study more film in a month than any of us watches in years.  I say "study" and "watches" deliberately; they not only look at a lot more film, they actually understand what they're looking at.  Do some of them still have biases?  Of course, but even many of those biases are based on legitimate opinions they've developed watching these guys play.  

 

So, I agree with others when I see someone ranked Allen 9th.  That's a coach or scout or GM saying he would take eight guys over Allen.  I'm hard pressed to see how that could be, whether it's a guy you, want for one game, one season, or one career.   Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, okay.   Herbert is a stretch.   Watson is a stretch.  Every other guy is a stretch.  You have to stretch on FIVE guys to conclude Allen is ninth.  I don't get that. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Shaw66

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, Beast said:

 

Yes, let's trade our second best defensive player before a season where we are contenders.

 

The men in the locker room will just LOVE that.

You'd reject an Edmunds trade for Darius Leonard and a first?  Are you nuts?

[JerseyBills]

People on here might know I love Edmunds and this just confirms that he is the real deal. Even ranked #1 , I think any team would gladly take Edmunds. Rare athletic ability combined with freakish size , leader with great work ethic. His best football is ahead of him and I anticipate he'll be in the debate as the best Mike LB in the game for years to come. 

 

Love the quote that White is the Tim Duncan of the NFL. That's extremely high praise. Duncan was often called Mr Fundamentals in basketball circles and is regarded as one of the best Power Forwards of All Time! 

 

Add Diggs in and That's 5 guys who are considered the best at their position! 

 

I'd also add Beasley, Poyer,Milano and Daryl Williams if he has another big year! We are so deep.  One guy I think will be on this list next year is Ed Oliver. I think this is his breakout year and he'll be another cornerstone player for a legit SB contender

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

 

One guy I think will be on this list next year is Ed Oliver. I think this is his breakout year and he'll be another cornerstone player for a legit SB contender

 

Correct if Oliver makes this list next year we're going to the Super Bowl.  

 

[Don Otreply]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, I agree that's true about the press.   But when we're talking about the opinions of coaches and GMs, I disagree.  They study more film in a month than any of us watches in years.  I say "study" and "watches" deliberately; they not only look at a lot more film, they actually understand what they're looking at.  Do some of them still have biases?  Of course, but even many of those biases are based on legitimate opinions they've developed watching these guys play.  

 

So, I agree with others when I see someone ranked Allen 9th.  That's a coach or scout or GM saying he would take eight guys over Allen.  I'm hard pressed to see how that could be, whether it's a guy you, want for one game, one season, or one career.   Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, okay.   Herbert is a stretch.   Watson is a stretch.  Every other guy is a stretch.  You have to stretch on FIVE guys to conclude Allen is ninth.  I don't get that. 

You are correct, they do indeed “study” film, as opposed to me.., and it is a stretch as you say. 

[Beast]

9 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

You'd reject an Edmunds trade for Darius Leonard and a first?  Are you nuts?

Made up, hypothetical trades.

 

OK.

 

Why don’t you just throw Quenton Nelson in the mix while you are at it?

 

My point still stands.

[Buffalo716]

On 7/12/2021 at 4:20 PM, stosh64 said:

People actually pay to read espn?

I get all the extra scouting reports on HS players not from my area so ESPN + is a bonus   

 

And I get boxing cards with it

[NoHuddleKelly12]

On 7/12/2021 at 4:20 PM, stosh64 said:

People actually pay to read espn?

It comes as part of the Disney + bundle with hulu, so kinda just a throw in for me, prolly similar to others here as well? 

[DCofNC]

On 7/12/2021 at 4:06 PM, HereComesTheReignAgain said:

I hate to be negative in an otherwise fun topic, but who the hell had Allen ranked 9th?!  

Has to be somebody that’s looking at longer term production.  I could see the argument that one year should not vault you to elite status.  I mean, in all honesty, if you look around the league, there could be arguments, based on long(er) term success for:

 

Maholmes

Rodgers

Wilson

Watson

Brady

Jackson 🤣🤮

Ryan

Dak

Baker

Cousins

and I’m sure Tannehill is mindlessly thrown in for some people.

 

they all have a longer resume than Allen in terms of “success”.   I don’t agree with it, but I can see where the argument comes from.   I could see somebody, non-biased, ranking him anywhere from #2 to #6 and I could not blame them.  For me, the only clear cut pick is Maholmes is #1.  After that, take your pick of Rodgers, Allen, Watson, Wilson and even though I don’t think he quite belongs in the conversation anymore, Brady.  It’s all about opinion on those guys.

[Shaw66]

9 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Has to be somebody that’s looking at longer term production.  I could see the argument that one year should not vault you to elite status.  I mean, in all honesty, if you look around the league, there could be arguments, based on long(er) term success for:

 

Maholmes

Rodgers

Wilson

Watson

Brady

Jackson 🤣🤮

Ryan

Dak

Baker

Cousins

and I’m sure Tannehill is mindlessly thrown in for some people.

 

they all have a longer resume than Allen in terms of “success”.   I don’t agree with it, but I can see where the argument comes from.   I could see somebody, non-biased, ranking him anywhere from #2 to #6 and I could not blame them.  For me, the only clear cut pick is Maholmes is #1.  After that, take your pick of Rodgers, Allen, Watson, Wilson and even though I don’t think he quite belongs in the conversation anymore, Brady.  It’s all about opinion on those guys.

Well, sure, that's the list of possibilities.   But as I suggested, I think the question has to be answered in terms of who you would take if you could have anyone, and the question is three parts:  for one game, for the 2021 season, and if you're building a team for the future.   As I said, it's a stretch to take several of these guys over Allen.  Dak is a stretch, but at least I can see the resume argument, and at his best, Dak has been superb.   However, over their last 20-30 games, Dak's best hasn't md Allen's.  Baker, you just have to make up arguments; the only way one can prefer Baker is if you compare his 10 best games to Allen's 10 worst.  Cousins, too.  It would be pure fiction to argue Cousins is better for a game, a season, or a career.   Ryan?   What Ryan looked like he was 6 or 7 years ago?   Okay.   But Ryan for the past five years?  No.  

 

As for Jackson, everyone knows that we're at the end of the Lamar Jackson era.  

[Stank_Nasty]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/31739496/ranking-nfl-top-10-wide-receivers-2021-execs-coaches-players-make-their-picks

 

3. Stefon Diggs, Buffalo Bills

Highest ranking: 2 | Lowest ranking: 8
Age: 27 | Last year's ranking: Honorable mention

Some evaluators wondered aloud how Diggs would handle Buffalo, a new offense and a (then) inaccurate quarterback in Josh Allen after the trade from Minnesota.

Answer: Like an elite receiver should. Diggs vaulted from fringe top-10 guy to one of the game's best thanks to a truly dominant season. Allen's new BFF led the league in targets (166), catches (127) and receiving yards (1,535).

"Years ago, one of [Minnesota's] receivers got hurt and they put in this new receiver, Diggs," recalled a veteran AFC defensive coach. "Smaller guy, more of a slot receiver at the time -- we figured it shouldn't be a problem. We get in the game and he had a pretty damn good day. He's been [great] ever since."

Diggs produced 20.3 receptions above expected, per NFL Next Gen Stats, by far the highest clip in the NFL.

Though Diggs was unhappy in Minnesota, those who coached him or followed him closely knew he would thrive when made the focal point of a high-level offense. He was a primary option for the Vikings but he shared that role with Adam Thielen.

"He's so competitive that his demeanor and ability had the opposite effect that some thought -- he lifted the entire offense up with his standard of play and his ability to get open and make tough catches," an AFC exec said.

Added an AFC coordinator: "Practices like every day is a game. He's known for that. Really quick, great route runner, knack for getting open."

[Royale with Cheese]

20 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

You'd reject an Edmunds trade for Darius Leonard and a first?  Are you nuts?

I would not trade a first for a Linebacker that doesn’t terrorize a QB.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/31739496/ranking-nfl-top-10-wide-receivers-2021-execs-coaches-players-make-their-picks

 

3. Stefon Diggs, Buffalo Bills

Highest ranking: 2 | Lowest ranking: 8
Age: 27 | Last year's ranking: Honorable mention

Some evaluators wondered aloud how Diggs would handle Buffalo, a new offense and a (then) inaccurate quarterback in Josh Allen after the trade from Minnesota.

Answer: Like an elite receiver should. Diggs vaulted from fringe top-10 guy to one of the game's best thanks to a truly dominant season. Allen's new BFF led the league in targets (166), catches (127) and receiving yards (1,535).

"Years ago, one of [Minnesota's] receivers got hurt and they put in this new receiver, Diggs," recalled a veteran AFC defensive coach. "Smaller guy, more of a slot receiver at the time -- we figured it shouldn't be a problem. We get in the game and he had a pretty damn good day. He's been [great] ever since."

Diggs produced 20.3 receptions above expected, per NFL Next Gen Stats, by far the highest clip in the NFL.

Though Diggs was unhappy in Minnesota, those who coached him or followed him closely knew he would thrive when made the focal point of a high-level offense. He was a primary option for the Vikings but he shared that role with Adam Thielen.

"He's so competitive that his demeanor and ability had the opposite effect that some thought -- he lifted the entire offense up with his standard of play and his ability to get open and make tough catches," an AFC exec said.

Added an AFC coordinator: "Practices like every day is a game. He's known for that. Really quick, great route runner, knack for getting open."

 

I have told this story before but my first exposure to Diggs was his rookie season. I was sitting on a tube on my way to work watching the condensed version of a Lions v Vikings game and I saw this guy I had never heard of working Darius Slay (who was one of the most unheralded elite players in the league at the time) repeatedly and just seemed to be open every down. Stef jumped off the screen as special to me instantly. 

[machine gun kelly]

It is shocking to me (I guess I shouldn’t be at this point) that Edmunds is respected by coaches, execs, etc. and the first thought is trade him now?  What?

 

Thank god to that crowd you’re last name is not Beane.

 

Its not like we extended him already and certainly can let the 5th year option play out.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

On 7/12/2021 at 9:10 PM, ganesh said:

We need a blue chip player as a pass rusher.  That is a missing piece of this team. 

I think coaches will rate.  Rodgers, Brady,  Wilson and may be Watson and Dak ahead of Josh.   

I think they’ve addressed that problem already. 1 of those 2 picks will certainly hit.

[DCofNC]

On 7/14/2021 at 10:15 AM, Shaw66 said:

Well, sure, that's the list of possibilities.   But as I suggested, I think the question has to be answered in terms of who you would take if you could have anyone, and the question is three parts:  for one game, for the 2021 season, and if you're building a team for the future.   As I said, it's a stretch to take several of these guys over Allen.  Dak is a stretch, but at least I can see the resume argument, and at his best, Dak has been superb.   However, over their last 20-30 games, Dak's best hasn't md Allen's.  Baker, you just have to make up arguments; the only way one can prefer Baker is if you compare his 10 best games to Allen's 10 worst.  Cousins, too.  It would be pure fiction to argue Cousins is better for a game, a season, or a career.   Ryan?   What Ryan looked like he was 6 or 7 years ago?   Okay.   But Ryan for the past five years?  No.  

 

As for Jackson, everyone knows that we're at the end of the Lamar Jackson era.  

I mean your criteria opens up a lot of possibilities, but I’d take Maholmes for 1 game, 2021 and for the future, so he’s the clear #1.  I’d then take Brady for one game, for 2021 I’d be happy with Allen, Watson, Wilson, Rodgers and for the Future I’d take Allen because of age and attitude.  I think there’s a solid argument that Watson is a better QB and the age is negligible, but Allen isn’t the Diva.  So no matter how you shape it, for me, Allen is in the top 5, hard to see him much lower than that for any of the categories in your criteria.

[YattaOkasan]

7 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I mean your criteria opens up a lot of possibilities, but I’d take Maholmes for 1 game, 2021 and for the future, so he’s the clear #1.  I’d then take Brady for one game, for 2021 I’d be happy with Allen, Watson, Wilson, Rodgers and for the Future I’d take Allen because of age and attitude.  I think there’s a solid argument that Watson is a better QB and the age is negligible, but Allen isn’t the Diva.  So no matter how you shape it, for me, Allen is in the top 5, hard to see him much lower than that for any of the categories in your criteria.

Brady is interesting to me. I don’t think we win as many games if Brady is our QB and I think TB wins the same or more games if Allen is QB. Do you disagree with this(which)? From that logic I have Allen > Brady.  

[The Dean]

On 7/12/2021 at 5:09 PM, Shaw66 said:

Yes, they do talk about the Bills' safeties, but it usually sounds like in their heads they're prefacing what they say with, "(For guys who aren't elite,) the Bills' safeties are very good."   "(These guys aren't stars, but) Poyer and Hyde get the job done."  

 

 

I agree in principle with your position on the safeties. But, and this is just from my impression of what I hear/read, as a pair, they are VERY highly regarded. I recall hearing/reading things like "among the best safety duo" "maybe the best safety pair". But I believe on an individual basis, they may not be considered "elite".  And I understand why some think that. Not sure that matters that much to me, though. I'll take these guys back there any time.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 7/12/2021 at 2:48 PM, Blainorama5 said:

The fact there are multiple top 10 rankings says this is a well built team and those in the NFL agree.  How many other years has that been the case?

 

What I liked is that for most of our guys, the range was pretty small (2 to 8 or 9)