EDIT: Total cost to taxpayers? Bills select sports firm to represent ownership in building new open air stadium in OP, targeted for 2025

[May Day 10]

25 minutes ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

Downtown never made any sense in the first place. Kill prime real estate for 10 weekends a year, kill tailgating etc.

 

Traffic would have been a nightmare, and I can’t even imagine the infrastructure issues as well as shutting down swaths of downtown over the course of a couple of years for construction.

 

The way this shook out is totally my personal preference, open air in OP. Love it.

I have been stuck down there for multiple hours due to Sabres gridlock after a playoff ot game.  When I go to Sabres games I always leave early due to the nightmare.

 

A bills game is unimaginable there without re-working the entire grid and 190.  I'm sure the study brought that to light.  

 

 

[Arkady Renko]

14 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

Not necessarily true. Petco Park in SD helped the surrounding area tremendously. They had a great plan for integrating the stadium with the community. I recommend for anyone to read that plan who has an interest in sports business or development 

 

But a baseball stadium hosts 81 games a year. 

[YoloinOhio]

Trying to think of other cold weather teams that have open air stadium in the suburbs or not downtown … patriots, chiefs, packers, jets/giants, WFT… who am I missing 

[holla83]

12 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

I think it’s going on the ECC South footprint. 

I agree. There was an article about this some time ago. It indicated that ECC would basically give the property away in exchange for the Bills covering demolition costs. Staying in Orchard Park seemed inevitable to me once the new training facilities were built. I personally love the atmosphere in OP.

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by holla83

[Chandler#81]

19 hours ago, nucci said:

ok but with only 8-10 games a year it doesn't make sense

Not anymore, nucc. We now have 17  regular season games -with an 18th Certainly likely very soon and additional playoff teams. 

Thats a minimum of 10 games with 1 preseason game for a crappy team and as many as 14 if the #1 seed gets knocked off before the Conference Championship. That’s well over a quarter of the calendar weeks.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

11 hours ago, Virgil said:

Allen’s numbers in a dome were better than in open air.  Give our QB every advantage he can get 

over his career or last season alone?

 

year 1 the receiving corps was BAD 

 

The obvious advantages are there in a dome but the ability to play in heavy winds is an advantage 

Edited June 19, 2021 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[UConn James]

36 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

A new stadium is likely to have a much larger footprint than the present one. I expect they will add some property to the current layout.  As presently configured, the space is too small, unless they raze the existing and build over top of it. As it is, the present stadium is butting up against property lines. 

There were reports in recent years that the Pegs were buying up adjoining land.

[Justin C]

43 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

I have been stuck down there for multiple hours due to Sabres gridlock after a playoff ot game.  When I go to Sabres games I always leave early due to the nightmare.

 

A bills game is unimaginable there without re-working the entire grid and 190.  I'm sure the study brought that to light.  

 

 

 

I know this is the stadium thread but what route are you taking that you are stuck in gridlock for multiple hours after a Sabres game? Even during peak years I would say I was never stuck in traffic for more than half an hour.

[Another Fan]

 I can't help but feel this thread/topic would be way way more popular if not for Beasley's comments.  

 

As for as the stadium I'd still like to see it in OP.  Keep some of it's old school football charms while upgrading technologically for the 2020's 

[zonabb]

Told everyone everywhere every time this came up. It will be open air in OP due to entire financial considerations. I worked in development and govt. I know people in development and govt. Pegulas want this team to be successful and not lose money here. They don’t want to take on tons of debt, they have zero on the team and it’s profitable. They want govt money but don’t want to saddle the taxpayers with more than necessary. In the end, as the beginning like I said, the costs for anything in Buffalo requires hundreds of millions of offsite upgrades to infrastructure-storm sewers, sanitary sewers, water, and roads-just to be able to build the stadium. That doesn’t even include the unquantifiable amount needed to acquire land, which every fool who owned property in the old first ward thought would make them rich. Waaay too many properties to acquire cost way too much time and money. They could buy some outright with honest offers but the hold outs who wanted double or wouldn’t sell at all require the city to undertake eminent domain proceedings, which is a lengthy and costly court battle (See: Kelo v. New London which was due to one property hold out that by the time the court case was settle, the developer decided against the project anyway!). They would be, literally, hundreds of millions into all of this and not a nickel spent on the actual stadium. Now jump southeast to Orchard Park and you have free land, saving millions in acquisition and eminent domain, and existing infrastructure that already supports a 73k seat stadium, saving hundreds of millions.

 

It was a no brainer when this conversation started and remained that way the entire time. Like everything with Bills homers, the emotional and irrational dreamed and the dream of a downtown stadium was just that.

[LabattBlue]

I thought for sure it would end up being a fixed roof dome stadium near the Key Bank Center. I can understand if the decision is to stay in OP, but to pass on a domed stadium?  I don’t get it. 😞

[Justin C]

I think for me I would just like to see a restaurant or shop strip to go along with the stadium. With rumors that ECC is facing financial troubles maybe if they shut down the South campus they can turn some of that into restaurants. That was my thing with a stadium downtown. Yeah tailgaiting would take a hit but restaurants and bars on game days would boom. 

 

I just don't want a MetLife stadium where they build a subpar new stadium in the middle of nowhere. 

[SectionC3]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Simple: Build the new stadium in the parking lot. Tear down the current one when it’s done. There are lots of ways to accommodate the parking inconvenience in the two seasons it’ll take to get it done. You don’t have to move everything to Pennsylvania. 

ECC lots.  That’s where it’s going.  Close Abbott on game day and use existing lots plus new lot space where existing stadium now sits for parking.   Done. 

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

Expense and scale of stadium. Open air will likely be less costly to build and potentially larger.

Even better.  We’re being moronic and cheap at the same time. 

[Punching Bag]

Arguments on single player makes no sense for $1.5 Billion investment unless player will be contributing to costs of building it.

[SectionC3]

48 minutes ago, holla83 said:

I agree. There was an article about this some time ago. It indicated that ECC would basically give the property away in exchange for the Bills covering demolition costs. Staying in Orchard Park seemed inevitable to me once the new training facilities were built. I personally love the atmosphere in OP.

 

Me too.  I heard demo at ECC might be expensive because of asbestos issues.  But surely cheaper than buying off everyone in the ward who won’t seek if the plan would have been to build downtown.  And, unless they put in a rail spur to try people there from Toronto, there are minimal infrastructure costs at ECC. 

[Watkins90]

20 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

A lot of them will get priced out though. At Giants Stadium both the Jets and Giants had 78,000 season ticket holders as well as people on a waiting list. I think the Giants still sellout with season ticket holders but the Jets don't. They having been trying to sell seasons and individual tickets since MetLife opened.  Either people don't want to pay it or can't afford it. It sucks but that is the reality with new stadiums.

I feel like, if your team is good enough year in and year out people will be willing to pay the price. When your team sucks, like the Jets, it becomes hard to justify spending the money. 

However, you can always sell seats to games you don't want to go to, to make up some of the cost. 

[RyanC883]

blah.  need a dome.  

[Chandler#81]

Covered seating for fans.

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/sports/buffalo-bills/bills-planning-new-outdoor-stadium-in-orchard-park/

[Stank_Nasty]

Not gonna get into an argument about what makes sense. Just going on the record saying this fits my personal preference for a game day. Love the unique experience our tailgate environment provides as opposed to other NFL venues and I love open air games. Just feels right. Pure. 
 

Went to the game in Lucas Oil a couple years ago. Amazing crisp fall weather during the walk up. Felt like game day outside. Then you walk in and the whole feel just went away. Felt like walking into a shopping mall. The wife and I both hated it. 

[Doc]

32 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

Arguments on single player makes no sense for $1.5 Billion investment unless player will be contributing to costs of building it.

 

But it's not just for a single player.  The league is a passing league now and for the foreseeable future and bad weather disrupts that.  There are also concerns for player and fan comfort which affect player recruitment and fan attendance, and year-round usability.

[BillStime]

Big mistake. You don’t spend a billion dollars on a stadium in Orchard Park with zero public transportation infrastructure. They will never invest in commuter/light rail to OP.

 

You build the stadium in the city - closer to the fastest growing region in our area - Southern Ontario.

 

Make downtown Buffalo a true hub with rail from the airport, Toronto and Rochester, etc.

 

OP is great. Love tailgating but after experiencing games in Seattle, Nashville, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore - walking to the game - partying along the way - build the stadium into the fabric of the city.

 

Buffalo can never learn from its mistakes - that’s why it will always be a Mickey Mouse city.

 

And who is going to pay for it? There is a cash cow right in our back yard - the New York Power Authority. Stop that money from flowing to Albany and NYC and invest right here in Buffalo Niagara.

 

Poor leadership = poor results 

[TheBeaneBandit]

13 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Not gonna get into an argument about what makes sense. Just going on the record saying this fits my personal preference for a game day. Love the unique experience our tailgate environment provides as opposed to other NFL venues and I love open air games. Just feels right. Pure. 
 

Went to the game in Lucas Oil a couple years ago. Amazing crisp fall weather during the walk up. Felt like game day outside. Then you walk in and the whole feel just went away. Felt like walking into a shopping mall. The wife and I both hated it. 

Yep. Went to a game there, the opener during Mannings 2nd year. Flutie got Thurman knocked out on a swing pass 1st play of the game. But yeah, that place totally sucks. 

[YoloinOhio]

1 minute ago, BillStime said:

Big mistake. You don’t spend a billion dollars on a stadium in Orchard Park with zero public transportation infrastructure. They will never invest in commuter/light rail to OP.

 

You build the stadium in the city - closer to the fastest growing region in our area - Southern Ontario.

 

Make downtown Buffalo a true hub with rail from the airport, Toronto and Rochester, etc.

 

OP is great. Love tailgating but after experiencing games in Seattle, Nashville, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore - walking to the game - partying along the way - build the stadium into the fabric of the city.

 

Buffalo can never learn from its mistakes - that’s why it will always be a Mickey Mouse city.

 

And who is going to pay for it? There is a cash cow right in our back yard - the New York Power Authority. Stop that money from flowing to Albany and NYC and invest right here in Buffalo Niagara.

 

Poor leadership = poor results 

See I think this is outside the scope of what the pegulas are trying to accomplish and without local/state funds and collaboration (we don’t know what has and hasn’t been discussed with government) they really shouldn’t be held accountable for building up the city. They are accountable to the nfl and other owners to have an up to date viable stadium for the team. 

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

See I think this is outside the scope of what the pegulas are trying to accomplish and without local/state funds and collaboration (we don’t know what has and hasn’t been discussed with government) they really shouldn’t be held accountable for building up the city. They are accountable to the nfl and other owners to have an up to date viable stadium for the team. 

I hear ya but people who care about a long term viable franchise would maximize its investment by building  closer to its largest robust market - Southern Ontario.

 

So short sighted..

 

[The Dean]

19 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Not gonna get into an argument about what makes sense. Just going on the record saying this fits my personal preference for a game day. Love the unique experience our tailgate environment provides as opposed to other NFL venues and I love open air games. Just feels right. Pure. 
 

Went to the game in Lucas Oil a couple years ago. Amazing crisp fall weather during the walk up. Felt like game day outside. Then you walk in and the whole feel just went away. Felt like walking into a shopping mall. The wife and I both hated it. 

 

Completely agree. I have been to several indoor venues for football games. I never really enjoyed the experience half as much as when attending outdoors. Even in severe weather. 

 

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

See I think this is outside the scope of what the pegulas are trying to accomplish and without local/state funds and collaboration (we don’t know what has and hasn’t been discussed with government) they really shouldn’t be held accountable for building up the city. They are accountable to the nfl and other owners to have an up to date viable stadium for the team. 

 

I'd love to know how much overlap there is among the fans who insist the Pegulas should pay for everything and those who insist the stadium be downtown (or in any particular venue the fan prefers). 

 

Also many fans seem to ignore the Pegulas have data the fans do not.  It's very easy to find fault/disagree with a decision when you have none of the information/data.

[uticaclub]

Love the idea of covered seats and open field. Any word of development in the area? Hotels? Bills hostal?

[without a drought]

Why is this actually necessary.  They already have an outdoor stadium that is used for about 100 hours a year. I'm not expecting any public funding to go smoothly.

[YoloinOhio]

8 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Love the idea of covered seats and open field. Any word of development in the area? Hotels? Bills hostal?

This goes back awhile but I remember seeing that if they did build in OP there was a plan for building up the area around the stadium as well - hotels, restaurants, etc 

[uticaclub]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

This goes back awhile but I remember seeing that if they did build in OP there was a plan for building up the area around the stadium as well - hotels, restaurants, etc 

Infrastructure has to be part of any new stadium. I think it's better for the general area to let downtown grow independent of the Bills and develop OP more, so now you have two hubs of commerce instead of one concentrated

Edited June 19, 2021 by uticaclub

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

21 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

If they require a PSL for tickets, I'm out. I love having seasons, but I had a hard time justifying the cost this year. Not sure I could afford a PSL situation 

I can’t imagine any model that doesn’t in today’s atmosphere 

[Punching Bag]

50 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

But it's not just for a single player.  The league is a passing league now and for the foreseeable future and bad weather disrupts that.  There are also concerns for player and fan comfort which affect player recruitment and fan attendance, and year-round usability.

 

Which obviously don't apply to other teams which have outdoor stadiums,, right? 

[YoloinOhio]

37 minutes ago, BillStime said:

I hear ya but people who care about a long term viable franchise would maximize its investment by building  closer to its largest robust market - Southern Ontario.

 

So short sighted..

 

Why does building it closer to southern Ontario make the franchise more viable long term? Fans from that area need to cross the border either way, it’s not much further to get to OP than downtown 

25 minutes ago, without a drought said:

Why is this actually necessary.  They already have an outdoor stadium that is used for about 100 hours a year. I'm not expecting any public funding to go smoothly.

The nfl told them it is necessary. They’ve been telling them that for years, I think since they bought the team. 

[Just Jack]

11 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

I thought they just upgraded that place?  The 50k the place holds would have more fans than Toronto or PSU

 

They did, but how many season ticket holder would make the drive from Buffalo to Syracuse on game day?  As it is, people here think I'm crazy for having season tickets and making the drive from Syr to Buf. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

3 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

They did, but how many season ticket holder would make the drive from Buffalo to Syracuse on game day?  As it is, people here think I'm crazy for having season tickets and making the drive from Syr to Buf. 

On the positive side its closer to me, Albany etc. I think they could pack the place.

[Logic]

I’ve felt all along that an open air stadium in Orchard Park is the best possible outcome.

 

Game days in Orchard Park are unique and awesome. There’s no guarantee that that awesomeness would have carried over to a downtown Buffalo game day experience. The stadiums I’ve been to in city centers haven’t been NEARLY as fun as Bills Stadium.

 

I also think this plan has the clearest path forward to actually succeeding and being built and not getting bogged down in politics and red tape.

[Royale with Cheese]

I’m not any sort of structural expert….

If the stadium is built in a slightly higher elevation and more “bowl” like….will it reduce the wind effects?

[Mike in Horseheads]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

I also think this plan has the clearest path forward to actually succeeding and being built and not getting bogged down in politics and red tape.

Yup, no eminent domain fights or environmental impact fights 

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Yep. Went to a game there, the opener during Mannings 2nd year. Flutie got Thurman knocked out on a swing pass 1st play of the game. But yeah, that place totally sucks. 

You are mixing up the RCA Dome with Lucas Oil Field. One was a dump, and the other should be a model for what the Bills new stadium should look like. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

16 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Why does building it closer to southern Ontario make the franchise more viable long term? Fans from that area need to cross the border either way, it’s not much further to get to OP than downtown 

If I were playing sim city, I’d rebuild Buffalo airport at Niagara Falls moves air traffic to lower population density.  consolidate whatever AF or NG is there as well and put an open air stadium at the existing Buffalo airport, then wrap around other sport and entertainment complex around it. Maybe figure out how to convert as much of NFBLVD into highway. Leverage existing rail to NF airport for some mass transit from DT Buffalo.