Doug Whaley puts full onus of EJ Manuel pick on Buddy Nix; believes he should have been a 3rd/4th round pick

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I mean that was literally a pre-recorded speech he gave to the Backers IIRC.  If he now says he was lying, it’s called consumer fraud.  Dude should just never speak to the media because he’s a moron with that stuff.

The Pegulas figured that out & after a disaster of an end of season press conference after the 2016 season put a gag order on him & wouldn't let him speak to the media until after they fired him.  Remember, on the day of the 2017 draft McDermott spoke to the media & Whaley never said a word.  

[Bill from NYC]

12 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

This reminds me of a story from years ago.  One time I was down in Nassau County visiting my parents & my father confused the 2 actors from Car 54 & was sure Fred Gwynne was dead when he was still alive.  Back then Gwynne used to be the voice on commercials & whenever I was at their house & a commercial with his voice came on I'd say "still alive".  I used to go down to visit about 4 times a year & on one visit on the drive down I heard on the news that Fred Gwynne had died that day.  When I got to their house I told my father that he could now say Fred Gwynne is dead.  

 

So when Buddy Nix dies, come back & bump this thread & tell everyone that everyone can now agree with you that Buddy is dead.

 

On a side note, when my father died we were going through his stuff & he had written out lists of dead people.  On the list (this was in 2008) was Lou Holtz.  When I found it I joked with my sister that my father was up there looking for Lou Holtz & he wasn't going to find him.  13 years later Lou Holtz is still alive.  

 

Buddy is going to live to be 100 just to spite you. 

Spite? Harv, I hope that he lives to be 200.  

[Albany,n.y.]

30 minutes ago, MrSarcasm said:

Because that is the case 90% of the time. No team 'trips over themselves' to draft a QB. 

 

Chiefs gave up a 1st-not exactly giving up tons as did the Texans and wasn't Russell Wilson a 3rd round pick.

 

Their are more Ponders-Winstons-Vince Youngs-Trubiskys-Manuels then Mahomes- Watson.

 

I'd wager that most good starting QBs were not traded for and instead fell to the teams.

 

QB draft choices are always iffy.  In the top 10 it's about 50/50.  Once you go past the top 10 the odds of finding the answer at QB drop.  I did a study of QB draft choices for a 20 year period from 2000 to 2019 and found the following. In order to be considered a success a QB had to become a long term starter or have a long backup career like the two 7th rounders, both former Bills , Fitzpatrick & Cassell. The success rate results:

Top 10 53%
Rest of 1st round: 36%
2nd round: 24%
3rd round: 17%
4th round: 10%
5th round 0% (over 30 busts)
6th round: 10%
7th round 5%

[Royale with Cheese]

Remember Fitz’s roast on Whaley?

Edited June 4, 2021 by Royale with Cheese

[Arm of Harm]

35 minutes ago, hmsmystic said:

Not sure I'm a fan of a Whaley going on record throwing Nix under the bus- leadership needs to take ownership of mistakes.  That said, he probably isn't making this up- at the time EJ wasn't regarded as a sure fire 1st round pick as I recall.

I'll never forget some of those 1st practices I got to attend at SJF college EJs rookie year.  EJ strolls out, Tom Selleck mustache and some swagger and I'm thinking- well-- maybe we got something here!  Then he proceeds to throw every other pass into the stands and we all knew then we were in trouble-- again.

Articles like this make me thankful even more for McBeane!

 

The evidence indicates Whaley did believe strongly in EJ. At the time, the stuff Whaley was saying to Bills Backers and others indicated Whaley was sold on EJ. If you want to disregard those words, fine. But then there are also Whaley's actions. He went all in at WR, investing two years' worth of first round picks into Sammy Watkins. That's the type of move you make when you're convinced you've found your quarterback.

 

So yes, Buddy Nix was ultimately the guy who pulled the trigger on the Manuel pick, just as he pulled the trigger on all other Bills moves up until his retirement. But Whaley provided the scouting reports upon which Nix based his decision. All the evidence indicates those scouting reports were absolutely glowing, and that Whaley was very high on EJ after taking over the GM position.

[billybrew1]

Whaley's actions demonstrate he was in love with EJ.... having said that, I think his biggest frailty was that he did not lead his team by example. I don't know who picked his coaches, but I don't think they did much better.... Aside from QB, we had a lot of talent at times though.... He'd probably be a pretty good scout.

[YoloinOhio]

Why does Whaley believe he would still be in the league as a backup if he went On day 2 or 3? Because no one would have seen him play to know that he can’t?

[17islongenough]

They were screwed no matter who they took that draft.   That has to be the worst class in a long time.   But if they didn't pick a qb they would have looked bad too

[skibum]

How would being drafted in the third or fourth round have magically made EJ a longtime quality NFL backup?

[TBBills]

19 minutes ago, skibum said:

How would being drafted in the third or fourth round have magically made EJ a longtime quality NFL backup?

Yea that part didn't make sense to me.

[ColoradoBills]

25 minutes ago, 17islongenough said:

They were screwed no matter who they took that draft.   That has to be the worst class in a long time.   But if they didn't pick a qb they would have looked bad too

 

Nix/Whaley should of traded back again into the 2nd round and drafted Zack Ertz.

 

 

 

"Am I doing this right"?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, HOUSE said:

I usually am not a huge fan of gifs, but this one is PERFECT

[Arm of Harm]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

I think they probably got the best of a really bad bunch tbh

 

 

 

Here are the guys in competition for being the best of that 2013 QB class:

 

• Mike Glennon
• Matt Barkley
• EJ Manuel
• Landry Jones
• Geno Smith

Of those, Glennon, Smith, and Barkley are still active and in the league. Let's look at some career stats:

 

Glennon: 6.4 YPA, QB rating 83.5

Barkley: 7.4 YPA, QB rating 66.6

Manuel: 6.4 YPA, QB rating 77.1

Jones: 7.8 YPA, QB rating 86.2

Smith: 6.8 YPA, QB rating 72.9

 

Of those, Landry Jones clearly has the best numbers. But, he's no longer in the league, which would seem to indicate he's not necessarily the most highly thought-of QB on the list. The guy with the second best numbers is Glennon, and he's still in the league. An argument could be made that he's the best of that QB class.

 

[ndirish1978]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Remember Fitz’s roast on Whaley?

 

I was searching for this on youtube while reading page 2. Thanks for getting the job done!

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

3 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

I’m sure he wants another crack at an NFL gig, but throwing your former boss under the bus even if true isn’t the way to do it.  

Every time he does it, he usually has enough Stickum on his hands that he gets pulled in as well. 😁

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, 17islongenough said:

They were screwed no matter who they took that draft.   That has to be the worst class in a long time.   But if they didn't pick a qb they would have looked bad too

Not if they had stuck with Fitzpatrick another year or 5 instead of releasing him after Buddy stuck his foot in his mouth during the fake phone call.  However, the 2014 QB draft wasn't much better with Carr, Garoppolo & Bridgewater as the only QBs who didn't bust.  The 2015 QB draft was bad too, with Winston & Mariotta going 1-2 and a bunch of no names after them (Siemien was the best of the rest, chosen in the 7th round).  The 2016 draft was a little better, but the Bills drafted C. Jones 4 picks after Dallas picked Prescott.  

So, in hindsight, getting rid of Fitzpatrick was a pretty dumb move.  

13 minutes ago, Arm of Harm said:

 

Here are the guys in competition for being the best of that 2013 QB class:

 

• Mike Glennon
• Matt Barkley
• EJ Manuel
• Landry Jones
• Geno Smith

Of those, Glennon, Smith, and Barkley are still active and in the league. Let's look at some career stats:

 

Glennon: 6.4 YPA, QB rating 83.5

Barkley: 7.4 YPA, QB rating 66.6

Manuel: 6.4 YPA, QB rating 77.1

Jones: 7.8 YPA, QB rating 86.2

Smith: 6.8 YPA, QB rating 72.9

 

Of those, Landry Jones clearly has the best numbers. But, he's no longer in the league, which would seem to indicate he's not necessarily the most highly thought-of QB on the list. The guy with the second best numbers is Glennon, and he's still in the league. An argument could be made that he's the best of that QB class.

 

Matt Barkley will be back! 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Albany,n.y.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

And whose fault was Sammy Watkins? lol

Mr. Watkins!  Sheesh!

[krf139]

And how does he explain the Watkins pick? 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

3 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Do you mean it's 'water under the bridge', or it's where Whaley will be living when the job offers don't roll in?

Edited June 4, 2021 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[BillsfaninSB]

It was lousy timing to need a QB.  I don’t blame Whaley or Nix really.  At least they traded down a bit.

 

They should have been patient and waited until the 2nd round.  Not a big deal if they lost him.  But in the end I get why they picked him. 

[JaCrispy]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Nix is going to be so pissed when he wakes up 

Oh, he ain’t waking up...😉

[Doc]

I believe him. I also believe that if he had stayed GM, Mahomes would’ve been ours.

[1st&ten]

Does this guy still wear sun glasses at every public appearance or interview---December in Buffalo guy still has those shades on.

[FLFan]

I resent being made to think about Doug Whaley.  

[NickelCity]

4 hours ago, FireChans said:

That's absolutely true.

 

OTOH, GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOO is still somehow in the league

 

 

 

Holy *****. That is legitimately shocking.  

[machine gun kelly]

Dougie fresh typifies please

dont go away mad, just GO AWAY!

 

God bless McBeane.  He is the quintessential reminder of all things bad about the bills in the day. Oh that day lasted 17 years.

[Warcodered]

4 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

Whaley clearly had an eye for talent.  But something was missing as a General Manager.

It was hard to put a finger on exactly what that was, until Brandon Beane/Sean McDermott took over.

 

For an organization to be successful, the front office must have a seamless relationship with the coaching staff.  

You can't just throw "good football players" onto a roster.  You must consider the scheme, the personality fit with teammates, etc.

It's not a coincidence that Whaley clashed with both Doug Marrone and Rex Ryan, or that he's throwing his former co-workers under the bus now.

 

I think he deserves a job in the NFL as a pro-scouting director.  But a team would be foolish to give him another GM position.

 

As a fan from Wyoming that showed up with Allen don't have much perspective on the guy but this video I thought might have an interesting comparison of him and McDermott. 

 

Sean show up for this press event wearing a suit and tie clearly trying to project his professional manner, and Whaley was wearing a long sleeve T-shirt/sweatshirt?

[schoolhouserock]

13 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

As a fan from Wyoming that showed up with Allen don't have much perspective on the guy but this video I thought might have an interesting comparison of him and McDermott. 

 

Sean show up for this press event wearing a suit and tie clearly trying to project his professional manner, and Whaley was wearing a long sleeve T-shirt/sweatshirt?

I remember this video. It was a fascinating rewatch.

 

I especially got a kick out of how McD introduced himself to the welcoming party at 1BD. I remember thinking that it was an awkward exchange the first time I saw this video. Now it just looks like someone that was very prepared to take a leadership role. In fact, he seemed more prepared than many of the other “leaders” in the building.

 

It was a video meant to place a good light on McD. That and his success certainly create bias. But I still feel like the fact that he had to introduce himself and the fact that it seemed so natural for him is both a damning insight into the Bills’ past and a pleasant thought for their future.

[JohnNord]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/former-bills-gm-doug-whaley-puts-full-onus-for-ej-manuel-pick-on-buddy-nix/article_ad90009e-c548-11eb-97b4-4bb8882a4586.amp.html?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_&__twitter_impression=true

 

My take is that this is a lot of revisionist history on Whaley’s part designed to paint him in a positive light.

 

I do believe that Nix was hell bent on finding a QB but I have a hard time thinking that Whaley was not on board with the move.  First there’s that video of him taking credit for the selection.  Then the next season Whaley doubled down on EJ by drafting Sammy. Finally when it was pretty clear EJ was a bust Whaley, who was still GM at the time, never distended himself from the EJ section.  
 

These don’t look like the moves of someone who wasn’t on board with EJ as QB.    

 

 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

pretty sure the rumor at the time of the pick was that nix stayed on after the season to make the pick so that if it failed it wouldn't be on whaleys record

[JohnNord]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Why does Whaley believe he would still be in the league as a backup if he went On day 2 or 3? Because no one would have seen him play to know that he can’t?

My guess is that he’s assuming EJ wouldn’t have the unreasonable expectations of being a 1st round franchise QB on him.  As a mid-round pick there might have been a chance that he could have been slowly groomed into a backup position, as opposed to a starter.  
 

I know that EJ’s confidence was completely shot in Buffalo because he was being cast for a position he never should have been in.  But I think it was far from the only reason that he failed in the NFL

[Straight Hucklebuck]

While Nix was one of the worst GMs I’ve ever seen, Whaley’s Rex Ryan Press Conference and humans shouldn’t play football quote made him look incompetent.

 

Whaley has no one to blame for passing on Khalil Mack out of Buffalo for Sammy Watkins. Seems to me on that one he backed himself into a corner to get a WR1 for EJ.

 

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I mean that was literally a pre-recorded speech he gave to the Backers IIRC.  If he now says he was lying, it’s called consumer fraud.  Dude should just never speak to the media because he’s a moron with that stuff.

 

That's basically my take on Whaley.  Hell of a scout, should not be allowed near a microphone, ever.

28 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

While Nix was one of the worst GMs I’ve ever seen,

 

I'm just gonna sit here and look at this statement for a while.

 

Nix.  Was hailed as an actual competent football man when the job was given him.  Did a bunch of things that were highly approved by fans at the time, such as firing Tom Modrak and revamping the scouting organization.

 

One of the worst GM's you've ever seen.

 

Son, I think you may be suffering from selective memory here.

 

Lucky you!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Warcodered said:

As a fan from Wyoming that showed up with Allen don't have much perspective on the guy but this video I thought might have an interesting comparison of him and McDermott. 

 

Sean show up for this press event wearing a suit and tie clearly trying to project his professional manner, and Whaley was wearing a long sleeve T-shirt/sweatshirt?

 

At this point, most feel the writing was on the wall that Whaley was a "lame duck" and it affected how he presented himself.  There was a famed debacle of a press conferece after Rex Ryan was hired which left Whaley in a very bad light.

 

There are a few here who believe that Whaley firmly believed he would continue as GM, and claim inside knowledge to that effect but most seem to feel otherwise.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

I believe him. I also believe that if he had stayed GM, Mahomes would’ve been ours.

 

 

I believe you are correct.

 

Good scout.........excellent eye for football talent.........but that was literally all he brought to the table as a GM...........and it's a position that requires A LOT more.

 

People reflect on his trade up for Sammy Watkins like that was his MO..........that was about the only time he showed any courage/conviction.........spineless is a good description of his tenure.

 

He didn't understand the first rule of management.   Regardless of whether you made the call, it's your fault if you have the GM title.

 

Clearly he thought that standing for the outgoing GM selecting HIS QB and the marketing guy and neophyte owners hiring his first two HC's wasn't going to be held against him.   Maybe he didn't want to walk away from the money but he should have resigned SEVERAL times before he got fired.    

 

[ndirish1978]

Zero accountability, this is not a leader of men.

[Richard Noggin]

8 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Doug Whaley never had a problem seeing talent 

 

He has an accountability problem. I believe what he's saying

 

But he never took any responsibility for his own actions while he was our GM. He always passed the blame 

 

But he could scout

Agreed. He would pull the curtain back when cornered, rather than publicly face the music. That brand of defensive "honesty" (I don't see him as dishonest) comes off as scapegoating and deflecting when under scrutiny. 

 

I've witnessed him, in front of scouts and players, openly mock other teams' overdrafted/overvalued players before, so I tend to believe the scout in him wasn't sold on Manuel. He came off as a tough evaluator. He was just so damned candid/unfiltered, probably too much so to be a top football guy for an NFL franchise. 

9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

This him?

https://www.nfl.com/news/new-bills-gm-doug-whaley-integral-in-ej-manuel-pick-0ap1000000204027

Exactly. He's too shifty and opportunistic (I'll bet none of what he's saying in this quote is dishonest, exactly, yet he could be omitting important context) to be a public-facing leader. And while I often imagine him being very blunt with his own guys, this kind of thing calls his integrity into question.

[thenorthremembers]

Whaley may have been a good talent evaluator but his lack of a spine makes him a bad leader.   I believe Fitz made a pretty famous joke about Whaley at one of the WGR roasts.

 

As an aside, Buddy NIx may have over-drafted a QB while he was here, but he never ended up on the instagram of the owner's daughter while employed by the team.  Literally no respect for Whaley. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

6 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

Zero accountability, this is not a leader of men.

I think this latest BN interview is Whaley preparing himself to enter politics. 😁

[Chicken Boo]

I'm one of the few who thinks Whaley put a good team together here.  Sure, there were blunders along the way, but you could say that for any GM.

 

Rex and Doug Marrone weren't exactly visionaries who could see the vision through and we all know he wasn't behind those selections.