Looks like John Brown was released

[BillsShredder83]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

This I think this is Feliciano or Williams money. 

not saying you personally, but i keep reading Feliciano or Williams.  How is that even a question on which?  It better be for williams

[SirAndrew]

I like Gabe Davis a lot, but I hope they don’t count on using him as the number two next season. Our offense was fine without Brown, and I’m not overly concerned, but I see Davis as a third option. His lack of speed worries me. 

[HOUSE]

This is a supreme bummer of epic proportions 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

We’ve seen too many 1 hit rookie wonders to think they are putting all the eggs in that basket, I think they add a WR in FA. Maybe even Brown on a very cheap deal 

Like who?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I am actually surprised by this. I thought for sure JB was an easy restructure. 
 

we are really going to need to replace him with another speedster. The offense looked 1000 times better when JB was out there and 100% healthy. 

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Probably the right decision. Thanks for 2019 JB.

Was hoping he would be opened to a restructure or pay cut. He obviously feels he can get more in FA and he's probably right. When healthy he's proven to be a high end #2. I was expecting more from Jefferson when he was acquired. Not a big loss on that end.

[NewEra]

43 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Can’t see them freeing up this money to spend on another receiver... this Is going towards Williams or a pass rusher 

And a WR somewhere in the first 5 rounds of the draft.  Our offense needs to get better.  Not stay the same.  

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Like who?

Karlos, Foster come to mind. 
 

I know it’s not a huge list or concern, just McBeane MO is make guys over-earn it

[Buddo]

Sad to see him go.

 

Unfortunately something had to give due to the cap situation.

 

As someone else mentioned, Smoke was a big part of the original turning around of the offense.

 

His career seems to have gone in fits and starts in respect of injuries.

 

Ironically, I think he's due for another healthy year, but with the cap hit, the risk was too much, imho.

 

Good luck Smoke, against any team not called the Bills, the guy was a class act, full stop.

[Aussie Joe]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

And a WR somewhere in the first 5 rounds of the draft.  Our offense needs to get better.  Not stay the same.  

Yeah didn’t have a problem with that... just don’t see them spending big on Curtis Samuel ...

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Aussie Joe

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I am actually surprised by this. I thought for sure JB was an easy restructure. 
 

we are really going to need to replace him with another speedster. The offense looked 1000 times better when JB was out there and 100% healthy. 

I thought our offense looked amazing vs the niners, Denver and NE.  Tough to be 1000x’s better than our offense was in those 3 games

[billsbackto81]

5 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I like Gabe Davis a lot, but I hope they don’t count on using him as the number two next season. Our offense was fine without Brown, and I’m not overly concerned, but I see Davis as a third option. His lack of speed worries me. 

If they feel he wasnt ready for the #2 they wouldn't have cut Smoke. The #2 doesn't necessarily have to be a burner. I value separation over speed in a WR. If they still need a speedster there will be cheaper options out there.

[NewEra]

Just now, Aussie Joe said:

Yeah didn’t have a problem with that... just don’t see them spending big on Curtis Samuel ...

 

💯 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Jefferson actually does have a dead cap hit of 1.5 million according to Spotrac. But the savings still amount to 6.5 million given that he had an $8 million cap number.

 

I was going to say this.  Pretty sure Sal pulled his numbers from Overthecap, which had an error for Q's contract showing him as 0 dead cap (but the cap hit and the salary did not add up, unless there was an amortized signing bonus that would create dead cap.

[DCOrange]

14 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I like Gabe Davis a lot, but I hope they don’t count on using him as the number two next season. Our offense was fine without Brown, and I’m not overly concerned, but I see Davis as a third option. His lack of speed worries me. 

 

Gabe isn't slow and he's always been at his best as a vertical threat. Still might not ultimately be the #2 guy out wide that we need but he's always projected as a fit there if he develops the right way and he developed very well over the course of his rookie season.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

Figured this was coming. I'm hoping they are opening up cap space to sign an upper tier pass rusher. Brown can be replaced in the draft or with Kenny Stills.

Very true. We absolutely have to find, steal, sign or trade for a very good pass rusher. It must be our top priority. I will always appreciate what Smoke meant to Josh's year 2 development. 

[Success]

Smart move.  Davis really emerged, and you can't keep everyone. This really helps the cap.

 

Gonna miss Brown, though.  Such a fun player to watch when healthy. A great Bill.  I'll root for him wherever he goes...

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Karlos, Foster come to mind. 
 

I know it’s not a huge list or concern, just McBeane MO is make guys over-earn it

 

I think, frankly, in those cases the "tea leaves" spelling "trouble ahead" were there.    Williams of course was a known risk from his college days that the Bills took a shot on under Whaley.

 

Foster got his ass cut and sent down to the practice squad for 3 games his rookie year after being blanked for receptions in 4 games.  He got a little ass-chewing by Shady to help him straighten out.   Point being his rookie year, he was showing signs of not being "bought in" with expectations for training and practice and of having the attitude he'd "arrived".

 

Davis of course could go that route, but by all accounts he came in knowing the playbook and going hard every chance.  Smoke Brown was pretty clear in saying "he's helping us" with the playbook, and Davis blocks like a son of a gun every play.   His attitude seems to be "I respect the guys that are here, and I'm gonna do everything I can to take someone's job".

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think, frankly, in those cases the "tea leaves" spelling "trouble ahead" were there.    Williams of course was a known risk from his college days that the Bills took a shot on under Whaley.

 

Foster got his ass cut and sent down to the practice squad for 3 games his rookie year after being blanked for receptions in 4 games.  He got a little ass-chewing by Shady to help him straighten out.   Point being his rookie year, he was showing signs of not being "bought in" with expectations for training and practice and of having the attitude he'd "arrived".

 

Davis of course could go that route, but by all accounts he came in knowing the playbook and going hard every chance.  Smoke Brown was pretty clear in saying "he's helping us" with the playbook, and Davis blocks like a son of a gun every play.   His attitude seems to be "I respect the guys that are here, and I'm gonna do everything I can to take someone's job".

All good points, and if they do line him up across from Diggs he’ll have earned it.

[John from Riverside]

I like Gabe Davis as a 3rd option guy (which he still is.....Diggs, Beasely, Davis)

 

but

 

We HAVE to replace the deep speed element we just lost

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

John Brown always hated me. For what? I don't know.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

John Brown's body of work lies mouldering in the cap hit grave. 😕

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

John Brown always hated me. For what? I don't know.

 

Yeah I mean every time you plant a seed he said "Kill it before it grow"...he said "Kill it before it grow..."

 

WTF is up with that?

 

 

[Fan in Chicago]

Thanks to John Brown for his time and the best for his future. 

His release makes a lot of sense for the Bills from a financial and availability standpoint. While the O didn't really underperform with him off the field, we need another speed option (and not as brittle as Glass Goodwin) to take advantage of Allen's arm and keep defenses honest. 

[Victory Formation]

24 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I like Gabe Davis a lot, but I hope they don’t count on using him as the number two next season. Our offense was fine without Brown, and I’m not overly concerned, but I see Davis as a third option. His lack of speed worries me. 

He’s what 6’2? Has great size and body control. Typically your big guys aren’t going to run in the 4.3s-4.4s, right around 4.5 is about what is acceptable for guys that size. Obviously if they run faster than that, that’s great, they’re freaks, but his speed is good enough is what I’m saying. Think the value in a player like Gabe Davis is he’s big. He can outmuscle most CBs for jump balls and he can beat them while they’re playing in press coverage. And once again, great body control. You can throw it to the opposite side of the CB and he has the wingspan, the hands and nimble feet to haul it in. Also helps in run blocking. He’s going to manhandle most CBs..

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, Fan in Chicago said:

Thanks to John Brown for his time and the best for his future. 

His release makes a lot of sense for the Bills from a financial and availability standpoint. While the O didn't really underperform with him off the field, we need another speed option (and not as brittle as Glass Goodwin) to take advantage of Allen's arm and keep defenses honest. 

I suspect they might be looking to the draft for that...unless someone like John Ross wants to sign a 1 yr deal on the cheap...

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

21 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I thought our offense looked amazing vs the niners, Denver and NE.  Tough to be 1000x’s better than our offense was in those 3 games

Haha— fair point. Maybe overstated that. But you can see that Josh’s worst

games came when JB was either out or hobbled severely such that he was a non-factor. 
 

I think we can all agree that the offense needs a guy that can stretch the field. 

[QCity]

It's the right move with that cap number. Burners don't age gracefully, and his injury history isn't likely to improve at 31. He had a great 2019.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, BillsShredder83 said:

not saying you personally, but i keep reading Feliciano or Williams.  How is that even a question on which?  It better be for williams

Should be. I do personally believe they value Feliciano more considering contract, leadership, and flexibility. I think OT could be our 1st pick.

26 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Haha— fair point. Maybe overstated that. But you can see that Josh’s worst

games came when JB was either out or hobbled severely such that he was a non-factor. 
 

I think we can all agree that the offense needs a guy that can stretch the field. 

I think Josh proved he can put up points without Brown.

[NewEra]

21 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Haha— fair point. Maybe overstated that. But you can see that Josh’s worst

games came when JB was either out or hobbled severely such that he was a non-factor. 
 

I think we can all agree that the offense needs a guy that can stretch the field. 

For sure. I won’t be happy if we don’t spend any resources on another vertical threat.  Our offense was amazing, but it wasn’t when we needed them most. After cutting brown, our O could really use a speed WR, a speed RB and another TE.  Not to mention RG, RT (and defense).  15 mill in cap space and a handful of picks.  Hopefully Beane can hit on our later picks like he hit on Davis and Bass (possibly Hodgins and Jackson too) last year.  

 
we won’t fill all of our holes.....but that’s ok.  17
 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I'm not optimistic about Williams at this point. Personally I think he should be a priority. But sounds like Beane is ready to move ahead with Ford at RT, and maybe sign a depth guy like Rick Wagner plus another draft pick. If they're letting Williams test the market 90% of the time that means the player is gone.

 

Not sure it's nearly as high as 90% as many players think their worth is much higher than it is.  Once they find out what the interest really is, they sign for much less and maybe back with their original team.

 

Admittedly don't think Williams will be one of these as likely he will be gone.

[Norcalbillsfan]

25 minutes ago, QCity said:

It's the right move with that cap number. Burners don't age gracefully, and his injury history isn't likely to improve at 31. He had a great 2019.

Unfortunately I agree. I just hope the money is for keeping Allen clean. I don't wanna take a weapon from Allen and lose a keystone on the Oline and expect Allen to replicate an mvp runner up season.

[BuffaloRebound]

WR’s want to play with good QB’s.  We had to pay top dollar for Brown when Josh was coming off a 50% completion year.  Now I bet plenty of WR’s would come here for a cheap 1 year deal for the chance to play in a high octane offense.  

[Aussie Joe]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

. After cutting brown, our O could really use a speed WR, a speed RB and another TE.  Not to mention RG, RT (and defense).  15 mill in cap space and a handful of picks.  Hopefully Beane can hit on our later picks like he hit on Davis and Bass (possibly Hodgins and Jackson too) last year.  

 
we won’t fill all of our holes.....but that’s ok.  17
 

 

 

On the D they need Milano replacement, Murphy upgrade and  maybe CB2 as well...

 

Think they need a few more restructures as $15M wont get you far even in this market...

[dave mcbride]

39 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

He’s what 6’2? Has great size and body control. Typically your big guys aren’t going to run in the 4.3s-4.4s, right around 4.5 is about what is acceptable for guys that size. Obviously if they run faster than that, that’s great, they’re freaks, but his speed is good enough is what I’m saying. Think the value in a player like Gabe Davis is he’s big. He can outmuscle most CBs for jump balls and he can beat them while they’re playing in press coverage. And once again, great body control. You can throw it to the opposite side of the CB and he has the wingspan, the hands and nimble feet to haul it in. Also helps in run blocking. He’s going to manhandle most CBs..

I remember reading (can't recall where) that Daboll's system is predicated on guys who get separation. Diggs and Beasley separate with ease, and Brown is good at it too because of his speed. As I understood it, there's a movement among OCs more generally away from big-catch-radius/jump ball guys who might struggle to separate. N'Keal Harry was regarded as a catch radius freak when he came out, but he can't separate and isn't any good as a consequence. I think Davis isn't all that great at separating because a) he's not particularly fast and b) he doesn't have a ton of stop/start quickness or hip wiggle. He still looks like a solid contributor, but I'm wary about him as a number two. Bear in mind that slightly over 1/6 of his yardage production this season came on two Barkley rainbow passes versus the Dolphins in a blowout during garbage time.   

Edited March 10, 2021 by dave mcbride

[Aussie Joe]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

 Bear in mind that slightly over 1/6 of his yardage production this season came on two Barkley rainbow passes versus the Dolphins in a blowout during garbage time.   

 

On the flip side.. he had several big plays taken away by the refs..

 

But I get your point... he is not a No 2 yet... hopefully can continue to grow...

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I remember reading (can't recall where) that Daboll's system is predicated on guys who get separation. Diggs and Beasley separate with ease, and Brown is good at it too because of his speed. As I understood it, there's a movement among OCs more generally away from big-catch-radius/jump ball guys who might struggle to separate. N'Keal Harry was regarded as a catch radius freak when he came out, but he can't separate and isn't any good as a consequence. I think Davis isn't all that great at separating because a) he's not particularly fast and b) he doesn't have a ton of stop/start quickness or hip wiggle. He's still pretty good, but I'm wary about him as a number two. Bear in mind that slightly over 1/6 of his yardage production this season came on two Barkley rainbow passes versus the Dolphins in a blowout during garbage time.   

My friend, my friend but Davis averaged 17.1 yards a catch and had 7 TDs. So that’s 599yds off of 35 catches as a rookie. WR has a very steep learning curve, there is no doubt in my mind he can double that next year. How is he any different than Kenny Golladay, Mike Evans or some of these other big receivers? They’re not burners either. 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Victory Formation said:

My friend, my friend but Davis averaged 17.1 yards a catch and had 7 TDs. So that’s 599yds off of 35 catches as a rookie. WR has a very steep learning curve, there is no doubt in my mind he can double that next year. How is he any different than Kenny Golladay, Mike Evans or some of these other big receivers? They’re not burners either. 

I don't dislike him! But bear in mind that 107 of those yards and 2 of those TDs came late in an utter blowout against a completely dispirited opponent that was on its way to giving up 56 points. That alone boosted ypc average from 14.9 to 17.1. 14.9 is still very good. But the stat line is a little deceiving.  

[The Jokeman]

48 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

I suspect they might be looking to the draft for that...unless someone like John Ross wants to sign a 1 yr deal on the cheap...

John Ross might be fast but in an unspectacular WR. If want a Brown replacement I look at Stills, Marvin Hall, Phillip Dorsett before I even consider Ross. Ultimately think we'd be wise to draft someone to replace Brown and Roberts. I'd love getting D'Wayne Eskridge in Round 5.

Edited March 10, 2021 by The Jokeman