Colts Running Game could limit Bills offense

[ProcessTruster]

Ok, I know we (and I) are all pumped to wipe these guys out tomorrow, but since Indy

-- has perhaps the best Oline Bills have seen in a while  (just as the Giants did in SB 25), 

-- a limited QB (just as the Giants did with Hostetler) 

-- has solid , big, ground and pound productive RBs (just like NYG with Ottis Anderson)

-- a playcaller who was there on the sidelines for SB25

 

Won't Reich just  play ugly ball, run the ball 40+ times behind that O line, throw short quick passes (they do this anyway) and thereby limit the Bills to 8 or 9 possessions in the game, just as Parcells did in SB 25?   Bills play 90%+ 5 dbs and a fairly lightweight front 6 , discouraging the pass (successfully) and demanding that the opposition run the ball? 

 

 I mean you can't score if you don't have the ball-- this is what happened in SB25.   Game ended up being way closer than it should have been, as the Giants had the ball for 2/3 of the game.   In the absence of Star, Quinton Nelson will absolutely maul any of the Bills D lineman.  

 

Sorry, I guess I am too old and remember how the Giants kept that game so close.   For sure, if Bruce just gets Hostetler to drop that ball in the end zone the game tide shifts, but in the absence of turnovers and ST magic, I can see the Colts making this game slow, ugly and close.   What say you?   The comparisons of the what the Giants did and what the Colts potentially have the tools to do to slow down a high flying offensive team seem a little too tight for comfort.  

 

Go Bills!  

Edited January 8, 2021 by ProcessTruster

[ProcessTruster]

Ok, I know we (and I) are all pumped to wipe these guys out tomorrow, but since Indy

-- has perhaps the best Oline Bills have seen in a while  (just as the Giants did in SB 25), 

-- a limited QB (just as the Giants did with Hostetler) 

-- has solid , big, ground and pound productive RBs (just like NYG with Ottis Anderson)

-- a playcaller who was there on the sidelines for SB25

 

Won't Reich just  play ugly ball, run the ball 40+ times behind that O line, throw short quick passes (they do this anyway) and thereby limit the Bills to 8 or 9 possessions in the game, just as Parcells did in SB 25?   Bills play 90%+ 5 dbs and a fairly lightweight front 6 , discouraging the pass (successfully) and demanding that the opposition run the ball? 

 

 I mean you can't score if you don't have the ball-- this is what happened in SB25.   Game ended up being way closer than it should have been, as the Giants had the ball for 2/3 of the game.   In the absence of Star, Quinton Nelson will absolutely maul any of the Bills D lineman.  

 

Sorry, I guess I am too old and remember how the Giants kept that game so close.   For sure, if Bruce just gets Hostetler to drop that ball in the end zone the game tide shifts, but in the absence of turnovers and ST magic, I can see the Colts making this game slow, ugly and close.   What say you?   The comparisons of the what the Giants did and what the Colts potentially have the tools to do to slow down a high flying offensive team seem a little too tight for comfort.  

 

Go Bills!  

[dlonce]

They could do all that if they CAN.

[JMF2006]

Trust the Process  

 

The Bills use their passing game to run the clock and control the ball.

 

Its not the K Gun hurry up lets get down and score in 2 minutes or less and get off the field.

 

They can do that if its required but it seems they like to pick a D apart play by agonizing play until they are tire/frustrated/demoralized.

[H2o]

I too have thought about this and even used it in the game plan against the Bills thread. The only difference is the Bills can still put up 35 in those 8 or 9 possessions against their defense. Can the Colts score that much against ours strictly running the football while dinking and dunking? I don't think so. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by H2o

[delirious]

When this team makes stopping the run a priority, they deliver and the opponents' running game is ineffective.  Then it's up to Rivers' arm to beat us. 

[RobbRiddick]

I wouldn't be surprised if they pass more in the first half because they know Buffalo will be playing the run and use the short passing game to score, try and build a lead and then run it in the second half.

 

 

[mjt328]

The Super Bowl 25 strategy is commonly used when teams are facing offensive powerhouses.  It's nothing special or unique.  It was actually our strategy back when we played the Chiefs earlier this year.

 

There were two key reasons that gameplan worked for the Giants 30 years ago:

1.  The juggernaut Bills passing offense came out ridiculously flat, and played pretty bad for most of the day.

2.  The Bills defense continually failed to make tackles on key 3rd downs, constantly letting New York extend drives.

 

Jim Kelly barely cracked 200 yards passing in that game, with zero touchdown passes.  We had 12 points at halftime.  The week before (in the AFC Championship), we had 41 points at halftime.  If our offense (which had 4 eventual Hall of Famers on it), had shown even the slightest signs of life in that game, we could have forced the Giants to abandon the run and rely on the arm of Jeff Hostetler.  As it stood, the only thing working for us was Thurman Thomas and we got into a ground battle that didn't favor us in the slightest.

 

The Colts have a good team everywhere.  Except in the secondary, where they are below-average and have multiple injuries.  This is where the Bills have a major advantage, regardless of Frank Reich's strategy.  If Josh Allen and the passing offense come out and play well, the Colts are going to be in big trouble.  If they come out and look like Weeks 5-8, then it's very likely this game is tight in the late 4th Quarter.

 

[Doc]

The Bills have the blueprint of the Steelers and Jags to shutdown the Colts' offense.

 

1 minute ago, mjt328 said:

The Super Bowl 25 strategy is commonly used when teams are facing offensive powerhouses.  It's nothing special or unique.  It was actually our strategy back when we played the Chiefs earlier this year.

 

There were two key reasons that gameplan worked for the Giants 30 years ago:

1.  The juggernaut Bills passing offense came out ridiculously flat, and played pretty bad for most of the day.

2.  The Bills defense continually failed to make tackles on key 3rd downs, constantly letting New York extend drives.

 

Jim Kelly barely cracked 200 yards passing in that game, with zero touchdown passes.  We had 12 points at halftime.  The week before (in the AFC Championship), we had 41 points at halftime.  If our offense (which had 4 eventual Hall of Famers on it), had shown even the slightest signs of life in that game, we could have forced the Giants to abandon the run and rely on the arm of Jeff Hostetler.  As it stood, the only thing working for us was Thurman Thomas and we got into a ground battle that didn't favor us in the slightest.

 

The Colts have a good team everywhere.  Except in the secondary, where they are below-average and have multiple injuries.  This is where the Bills have a major advantage, regardless of Frank Reich's strategy.  If Josh Allen and the passing offense come out and play well, the Colts are going to be in big trouble.  If they come out and look like Weeks 5-8, then it's very likely this game is tight in the late 4th Quarter.

 

 

Probably because they were all still hungover...

Edited January 8, 2021 by Doc

[Big Turk]

This Bills team has a much better coaching staff top to bottom. They will figure it out.

[hemma]

Our last 4 games, we've averaged 3.65 points per drive against some varied & decent defenses.

We get 33 points on 9 drives, we should win.

[CSBill]

ProcessTruster, from a SWAT analysis perspective, indeed, those are the Threats. Us old guys remember that game all too well. If the Colts are to beat the Bills this weekend, this is the formula. .... But, I believe the Bills' Strengths (Offense, stout D, good Coaching, emerging super-star QB home field - fans) and Opportunities (the Play-offs, loaded team, home field - fans) outweigh any potential Weaknesses (Run D?, potential over-confidence?) and these Threats. ... Time to rewrite "MAKE" some history!

[ALLEN1QB]

I just don't see much comparison apples n oranges.

[dorquemada]

Hosteler had 'the added dimension' of being mobile.  if you were around then you'll remember the pundits talking nonstop about that in the days and week leading up to the SB.  Rivers does not have that added dimension.   Plus, i'll say, Otis Anderson was not a consistently great back but when he showed up he was pretty much unstoppable. 

 

That and I'll go on and assume that this version of the Bills aren't spending this week getting hammered all night and chasing hangovers

[JESSEFEFFER]

This is the play that once seen can't be forgotten:

 

Mark Ingram 3rd down conversion.

 

A 14 yard gain on 3rd and 13 that extended the opening drive of the 3rd quarter that would give the Giants the lead and burn nearly 20% of the game clock.

 

New York scoring drive: 75 yards, 14 plays, 9:29.
New York 17, Buffalo 12

 

A run heavy, dink and dunk offense does not work without such a play.  I think it was the most consequential play of the game next to Norwood's miss and the Bills' worst play of the game.

[ProcessTruster]

23 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

The Super Bowl 25 strategy is commonly used when teams are facing offensive powerhouses.  It's nothing special or unique.  It was actually our strategy back when we played the Chiefs earlier this year.

 

There were two key reasons that gameplan worked for the Giants 30 years ago:

1.  The juggernaut Bills passing offense came out ridiculously flat, and played pretty bad for most of the day.

2.  The Bills defense continually failed to make tackles on key 3rd downs, constantly letting New York extend drives.

 

Jim Kelly barely cracked 200 yards passing in that game, with zero touchdown passes.  We had 12 points at halftime.  The week before (in the AFC Championship), we had 41 points at halftime.  If our offense (which had 4 eventual Hall of Famers on it), had shown even the slightest signs of life in that game, we could have forced the Giants to abandon the run and rely on the arm of Jeff Hostetler.  As it stood, the only thing working for us was Thurman Thomas and we got into a ground battle that didn't favor us in the slightest.

 

The Colts have a good team everywhere.  Except in the secondary, where they are below-average and have multiple injuries.  This is where the Bills have a major advantage, regardless of Frank Reich's strategy.  If Josh Allen and the passing offense come out and play well, the Colts are going to be in big trouble.  If they come out and look like Weeks 5-8, then it's very likely this game is tight in the late 4th Quarter.

 

How does your last paragraph point change if both Diggs and Beasley are out, which is looking like an actual possibility?  

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

The guys on Gmfb said it best. It’s been about 8000 plus days since our last home playoff game. We are the hottest football team on the planet this past month. There is no way we don’t show up for this. We can’t ask for much more coming into the playoffs really. 

 

The guys look loose, having fun. As long as we don’t beat ourselves we got this. 

 

 

 

[Magox]

I think they are gonna try to pound the rock and use the short/intermediate pass game to limit possessions.  
 

And even though they don’t blitz often I would expect them to blitz much more often than they normally do to speed up Josh Allen’s internal clock to try to force some negative plays, TO’s and to get them off the field.   I don’t see how they just go with a typical 4 man rush throughout the game, they’ll get carved up if they do.

 

One thing to have the game plan it’s another to effectively execute it.   Buffalo should sell out to stop the run and the short intermediate game.  If they give up a big play or two they can handle that.  The bigger risk is Indianapolis scoring touchdowns while eating clock.  Also plan against their varying blitz packages that they have shown.

 

 

[BuffalOhio]

8 or 9 possessions should equal 56 to 63 points.  I'm good with that.

10 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

This is the play that once seen can't be forgotten:

 

Mark Ingram 3rd down conversion.

 

A 14 yard gain on 3rd and 13 that extended the opening drive of the 3rd quarter that would give the Giants the lead and burn nearly 20% of the game clock.

 

New York scoring drive: 75 yards, 14 plays, 9:29.
New York 17, Buffalo 12

 

A run heavy, dink and dunk offense does not work without such a play.  I think it was the most consequential play of the game next to Norwood's miss and the Bills' worst play of the game.

Yep, that play gives me nightmares.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Do the Bills still get to pump in artificial crowd noise even with 6,700 fans in the stadium?

[ProcessTruster]

14 minutes ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

The guys on Gmfb said it best. It’s been about 8000 plus days since our last home playoff game. We are the hottest football team on the planet this past month. There is no way we don’t show up for this. We can’t ask for much more coming into the playoffs really. 

 

The guys look loose, having fun. As long as we don’t beat ourselves we got this. 

 

 

 

yeah, yeah, but they weren't saying that when Titans and Chiefs ran over a lightweight Bills front, just as the Giants did in SB25.  .  Showing up has little to do with it if the other team is simply beating you up in the trenches with bigger , better lineman?  

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

6 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

yeah, yeah, but they weren't saying that when Titans and Chiefs ran over a lightweight Bills front, just as the Giants did in SB25.  .  Showing up has little to do with it if the other team is simply beating you up in the trenches with bigger , better lineman?  

It can happen no doubt but there is not much we can control. I’m just saying I personally feel as a fan pretty confident with this squad. 
 

 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

I think you guys all underestimate how strong the Giants defense in 90 was. #1 in Pts allowed, #2 in yards allowed, #1 in Yards/Pass etc. Not to mention that Belichick and Parcells were running it. The Colts defense is not in that class.

[All_Pro_Bills]

47 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

The Super Bowl 25 strategy is commonly used when teams are facing offensive powerhouses.  It's nothing special or unique.  It was actually our strategy back when we played the Chiefs earlier this year.

 

There were two key reasons that gameplan worked for the Giants 30 years ago:

1.  The juggernaut Bills passing offense came out ridiculously flat, and played pretty bad for most of the day.

2.  The Bills defense continually failed to make tackles on key 3rd downs, constantly letting New York extend drives.

 

Jim Kelly barely cracked 200 yards passing in that game, with zero touchdown passes.  We had 12 points at halftime.  The week before (in the AFC Championship), we had 41 points at halftime.  If our offense (which had 4 eventual Hall of Famers on it), had shown even the slightest signs of life in that game, we could have forced the Giants to abandon the run and rely on the arm of Jeff Hostetler.  As it stood, the only thing working for us was Thurman Thomas and we got into a ground battle that didn't favor us in the slightest.

 

The Colts have a good team everywhere.  Except in the secondary, where they are below-average and have multiple injuries.  This is where the Bills have a major advantage, regardless of Frank Reich's strategy.  If Josh Allen and the passing offense come out and play well, the Colts are going to be in big trouble.  If they come out and look like Weeks 5-8, then it's very likely this game is tight in the late 4th Quarter.

 

I've always concluded the Bills lost SB25 because they failed to make any major adjustments to their game plan given the Giants approach on offense and defense.  To this day I will never understand why the failed to make any major adjustments on either side of the ball.  That game was there to win with some simple adjustments.  To me they beat themselves that day.  Get more players in the box on defense and on offense adjust to a more "take what the defense gives you" approach.  The Giants played a light 2-5-4 if I recall.  What they should have done is run the ball for 5 to 7 yards a play and force the Giants out of that.  But they didn't.

 

If the Bills play to potential on Saturday they will win.  I think the Colts are a good team but this fear that they possess some unstoppable running attack and will run the ball down our throats and control the clock with a rookie RB is overblown. Plus this coaching staff is a lot smarter and flexible than its SB25 counterpart.  They'll be ready.    

[Bills92]

I too thought about this scenario.. just because Frank Reich was on the sidelines of that game... and furthermore, the momentum (and hype) these Bills have going into playoffs feels very similar to that 1990 team.

With that said, in true Belichikian style, he took away a key piece of our offence which was the Kelly to Reed connection.... and for those who can remember.. the way they did that was 1) Playing nickel / dime most of the game 2) When Reed crossed the middle (his bread and butter) ... take his head out....    which they did successfully.  To the point, I believe Reed got the 'dropsies'

 

The reality is that piece could not be duplicated (Thank you Peyton Manning/Tony Dungy/Competition committee) because of the era of football we are in...  because the flags will be a flying....

 

 

[oldmanfan]

I am sure the Colts will emphasize the run game.  I am also sure the Bills know this and will force Rivers to try and beat them.  I don't think he can.

Just now, All_Pro_Bills said:

I've always concluded the Bills lost SB25 because they failed to make any major adjustments to their game plan given the Giants approach on offense and defense.  To this day I will never understand why the failed to make any major adjustments on either side of the ball.  That game was there to win with some simple adjustments.  To me they beat themselves that day.  Get more players in the box on defense and on offense adjust to a more "take what the defense gives you" approach.  The Giants played a light 2-5-4 if I recall.  What they should have done is run the ball for 5 to 7 yards a play and force the Giants out of that.  But they didn't.

 

If the Bills play to potential on Saturday they will win.  I think the Colts are a good team but this fear that they possess some unstoppable running attack and will run the ball down our throats and control the clock with a rookie RB is overblown. Plus this coaching staff is a lot smarter and flexible than its SB25 counterpart.  They'll be ready.    

The Bills lost the first Super Bowl because Levy got completely outcoached by Parcells.

[Bills92]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I am sure the Colts will emphasize the run game.  I am also sure the Bills know this and will force Rivers to try and beat them.  I don't think he can.

The Bills lost the first Super Bowl because Levy got completely outcoached by Parcells.

*outcoached by Belichik

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Bills92 said:

*outcoached by Belichik

even more accurate!

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

We need to get a couple scores up as quickly as possible I think. If we do that like Hapless mentioned above they won’t be able to play their game. Most likely will have to abandon the run. Make Rivers have to beat us. I don’t think he can.

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

In any given game, strategy, gameplan, matchups and turnovers can have a huge affect...even allowing a great team to lose to a good team on the road.  It is possible.....and I am sure running the ball is a big part of the Colts plan...on offense.  They will need similar plans on defense and special teams.

[TAinLack.]

13 minutes ago, Bills92 said:

*outcoached by Belichik

 

16 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I am sure the Colts will emphasize the run game.  I am also sure the Bills know this and will force Rivers to try and beat them.  I don't think he can.

The Bills lost the first Super Bowl because Levy got completely outcoached by Parcells.

 

If I remember correctly, the Bills played the Giants the last game of that season, Parcells and Belicheck got a real good look at us.

Edited January 8, 2021 by TAinLA
spelling

[Bills92]

1 minute ago, TAinLA said:

 

 

If I remember correctly, the Bills played the Giants the last game of that season, Parcells and Belicheck got a real good look at us.

 Third last game....  and yes that is a good point..  But not to get 'marred' in the details.. Kelly got hurt early in that game.. so they got a glimpse of the no huddle.. but one Reich came in, from what I remember, the offense was not the same.  

[Beerball]

1 hour ago, ProcessTruster said:

Ok, I know we (and I) are all pumped to wipe these guys out tomorrow, but since Indy

-- has perhaps the best Oline Bills have seen in a while  (just as the Giants did in SB 25), 

-- a limited QB (just as the Giants did with Hostetler) 

-- has solid , big, ground and pound productive RBs (just like NYG with Ottis Anderson)

-- a playcaller who was there on the sidelines for SB25

 

Won't Reich just  play ugly ball, run the ball 40+ times behind that O line, throw short quick passes (they do this anyway) and thereby limit the Bills to 8 or 9 possessions in the game, just as Parcells did in SB 25?   Bills play 90%+ 5 dbs and a fairly lightweight front 6 , discouraging the pass (successfully) and demanding that the opposition run the ball? 

 

 I mean you can't score if you don't have the ball-- this is what happened in SB25.   Game ended up being way closer than it should have been, as the Giants had the ball for 2/3 of the game.   In the absence of Star, Quinton Nelson will absolutely maul any of the Bills D lineman.  

 

Sorry, I guess I am too old and remember how the Giants kept that game so close.   For sure, if Bruce just gets Hostetler to drop that ball in the end zone the game tide shifts, but in the absence of turnovers and ST magic, I can see the Colts making this game slow, ugly and close.   What say you?   The comparisons of the what the Giants did and what the Colts potentially have the tools to do to slow down a high flying offensive team seem a little too tight for comfort.  

 

Go Bills!  

That could happen.  It's up to Leslie to make sure it doesn't happen.  Safeties will be huge this game and CBs will be on an island.

[Coach Tuesday]

53 minutes ago, Magox said:

I think they are gonna try to pound the rock and use the short/intermediate pass game to limit possessions.  
 

And even though they don’t blitz often I would expect them to blitz much more often than they normally do to speed up Josh Allen’s internal clock to try to force some negative plays, TO’s and to get them off the field.   I don’t see how they just go with a typical 4 man rush throughout the game, they’ll get carved up if they do.

 

One thing to have the game plan it’s another to effectively execute it.   Buffalo should sell out to stop the run and the short intermediate game.  If they give up a big play or two they can handle that.  The bigger risk is Indianapolis scoring touchdowns while eating clock.  Also plan against their varying blitz packages that they have shown.

 

 

100% this will be the Colts’ game plan.  They can’t afford to sit back and let Allen carve them up - they’re gonna try to force turnovers early and take their chances that it might backfire.  They have no choice.

[Dablitzkrieg]

Similar to the NE game, I anticipate more base personnel.  Rivers is a statue so there is no risk of mobility.  I think they will stack the box.  The Bills are going to torch that secondary and you can forget the run game for the Colts.  They simply will be down too much.  

29 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I am sure the Colts will emphasize the run game.  I am also sure the Bills know this and will force Rivers to try and beat them.  I don't think he can.

The Bills lost the first Super Bowl because Levy got completely outcoached by Parcells.

He can't.  It's going to be over by halftime

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, ProcessTruster said:

Ok, I know we (and I) are all pumped to wipe these guys out tomorrow, but since Indy

-- has perhaps the best Oline Bills have seen in a while  (just as the Giants did in SB 25), 

-- a limited QB (just as the Giants did with Hostetler) 

-- has solid , big, ground and pound productive RBs (just like NYG with Ottis Anderson)

-- a playcaller who was there on the sidelines for SB25

 

Won't Reich just  play ugly ball, run the ball 40+ times behind that O line, throw short quick passes (they do this anyway) and thereby limit the Bills to 8 or 9 possessions in the game, just as Parcells did in SB 25?   Bills play 90%+ 5 dbs and a fairly lightweight front 6 , discouraging the pass (successfully) and demanding that the opposition run the ball? 

 

 I mean you can't score if you don't have the ball-- this is what happened in SB25.   Game ended up being way closer than it should have been, as the Giants had the ball for 2/3 of the game.   In the absence of Star, Quinton Nelson will absolutely maul any of the Bills D lineman.  

 

Sorry, I guess I am too old and remember how the Giants kept that game so close.   For sure, if Bruce just gets Hostetler to drop that ball in the end zone the game tide shifts, but in the absence of turnovers and ST magic, I can see the Colts making this game slow, ugly and close.   What say you?   The comparisons of the what the Giants did and what the Colts potentially have the tools to do to slow down a high flying offensive team seem a little too tight for comfort.  

 

Go Bills!  

Why would the Bills do this 

Edited January 8, 2021 by YoloinOhio

[jwhit34]

I the more relevant comparison is to this year's Pittsburgh game. Indy has a better run game but if the D is defending the short passes that brings 8-9 "in the box" and helps defend the run too. If Indy goes that route the Bills can play run first and short passing game second and that would probably be the most effective strategy. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, H2o said:

I too have thought about this and even used it in the game plan against the Bills thread. The only difference is the Bills can still put up 35 in those 8 or 9 possessions against their defense. Can the Colts score that much against ours strictly running the football while dinking and dunking? I don't think so. 

 

Yeah - when they played KC they had edmunds play the pass on almost every run play.  It resulted in getting shredded in the run game since reid just trusted mahomes to run RPOs and make the right call.  Denver and NE had good running games, but athletic QBs factored into both of those totals - same with titans and cardinals.  

 

I think the defense is a tad different than it was early in the year.  Edmunds and Milano are healthy, klein has been bringing that edge.  As a unit the entire group has started to come together in the back half of the year.  

 

The thing with a run heavy offense is - if you get blown up once, or get one holding penalty... you are now forced to pass and play action becomes less effective.  If you aren't good enough to do these things you will struggle.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

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[Hapless Bills Fan]

[This is an automated response]

 

As a courtesy to the other board members, please use more descriptive topic titles. A single name if far too vague to post as a title and provides little insight into what specifically the post is talking about.The topic starter can edit the topic title line to make it more appropriate.

 

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