Bruce Smith shocking statistic...he never led the NFL in sacks in any year he played

[Big Turk]

I had to double check this but it is true...totally crazy!  

 

In Smith's best year when he had 19 sacks in 1990, Derrick Thomas of the Chiefs had 20. His second highest total was 15 in 1986 when Lawrence Taylor had 20.5 and Smith was actually 5th after Taylor, Dexter Manley with 18.5, Reggie White with 18, and Sean Jones with 15.5. He had 14 3 times and 13 twice as well. 

 

In all, Smith had 13 seasons where he had double digit sacks.  12 were with the Bills, the other was his second season in Washington at age 37.  

 

He did lead the NFL twice in forced fumbles with 5 in 1994 and 1996, and is 8th in career forced fumbles with 43. Robert Mathis is all time leader in forced fumbles with 54. Julius Peppers 2nd at 52. Active leaders are Chandler Jones and Robert Quinn tied with 27.

Edited November 12, 2020 by matter2003

[scuba guy]

Also ny Jets

Mark gastineu

 

[BillsFan619]

8 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

I had to double check this but it is true...totally crazy!  

 

In Smith's best year when he had 19 sacks in 1990, Derrick Thomas of the Chiefs had 20. His second highest total was 15 in 1986 when Lawrence Taylor had 20.5 and Smith was actually 5th after Taylor, Dexter Manley with 18.5, Reggie White with 18, and Sean Jones with 15.5. He had 14 3 times and 13 twice as well. 

 

In all, Smith had 13 seasons where he had double digit sacks.  12 were with the Bills, the other was his second season in Washington at age 37.  

 

He did lead the NFL twice in forced fumbles with 5 in 1994 and 1996, and is 8th in career forced fumbles with 43. Robert Mathis is all time leader in forced fumbles with 54. Julius Peppers 2nd at 52. Active leaders are Chandler Jones and Robert Quinn tied with 27.

I guess the tortoise wins the race (not saying Bruce was slow)? That’s completely shocking especially with him being the best at his position.

Edited November 12, 2020 by BillsFan619

[Royale with Cheese]

A Bills WR has never led the NFL in either yards, receptions or touchdowns.  

[Big Turk]

7 minutes ago, scuba guy said:

Also ny Jets

Mark gastineu

 

 

Gastineau led the NFL twice in back to back years with 19 and 22 sacks in 1983 and 1984. He also unofficially had 20 sacks in 1982, the year before the NFL started keeping track of them and his teammate Joe Klecko had 20.5 that year as part of the "New York Sack Exchange" line that unofficially recorded 66 between the 4 linemen.

 

He only had one other year in double digits with 13.5 before really fading badly over the next 3 years...

 

I was always a little amazed at how he faded so quickly...was there an injury that caused his rapid decline? Something else?

Edited November 12, 2020 by matter2003

[H2o]

1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

 

Gastineau led the NFL twice in back to back years with 19 and 22 sacks in 1983 and 1984. He also unofficially had 20 sacks in 1982, the year before the NFL started keeping track of them and his teammate Joe Klecko had 20.5 that year as part of the "New York Sack Exchange" line that unofficially recorded 66 between the 4 linemen.

 

He only had one other year in double digits with 13.5 before really fading badly over the next 3 years...

 

I was always a little amazed at how he faded so quickly...was there an injury that caused his rapid decline? Something else?

Steroids cause your body to break down eventually. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by H2o

[Fr. Jerk]

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, H2o said:

Steroids cause your body to break down eventually. 

 

Gotcha...that would explain it...he wasn't even a full time starter the last 4 seasons it appears, even in the season he had 13.5 sacks, he only started 12 games but played in all 16.

[Mikie2times]

Great article to sprinkle in with the topic. 

 

https://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=weinreb/081006

[Kwai San]

Baaaad Things Man!  Baaaaaaad Things!

Edited November 12, 2020 by Kwai San

[Jay_Fixit]

15 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

A Bills WR has never led the NFL in either yards, receptions or touchdowns.  

Cool. 
 

Toe stepper.

 

 

[Nextmanup]

I'll give you another shocking statistic!  He wasn't even the best defensive end in the game while playing.

 

That was Reggie White.

 

Bruce Smith is still one of the all-time best Buffalo Bills, up there with OJ and only a few others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo Junction]

9 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

I had to double check this but it is true...totally crazy!  

 

In Smith's best year when he had 19 sacks in 1990, Derrick Thomas of the Chiefs had 20. His second highest total was 15 in 1986 when Lawrence Taylor had 20.5 and Smith was actually 5th after Taylor, Dexter Manley with 18.5, Reggie White with 18, and Sean Jones with 15.5. He had 14 3 times and 13 twice as well. 

 

In all, Smith had 13 seasons where he had double digit sacks.  12 were with the Bills, the other was his second season in Washington at age 37.  

 

He did lead the NFL twice in forced fumbles with 5 in 1994 and 1996, and is 8th in career forced fumbles with 43. Robert Mathis is all time leader in forced fumbles with 54. Julius Peppers 2nd at 52. Active leaders are Chandler Jones and Robert Quinn tied with 27.

Not too surprising when you consider the sheer number of hall of fame pass rushers that played at the same time. Then there were the not quite as good pass rushers like Clyde Simmons and Neil Smith who played opposite Reggie White and Derrick Thomas (respectively) and made it impossible to focus on just one rusher. 
 

Mid 80’s through mid 90’s was such an awesome time for defensive football. IMO a pinnacle before the league toned down hitting and slanted the rules towards offense. Plus, they really didn’t do the best job keeping track of PEDs either so there were a fair amount of guys with just a couple high end seasons. 

[Mr. WEO]

bum

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Cool. 
 

Toe stepper.

 

 

 

Want to hear something amazing?  I was out the other day and I saw this guy wearing sandals with his jeans and a hoodie....I thought it looked ridiculous.  I'm going to stop doing that.

[Buffalo Junction]

7 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I'll give you another shocking statistic!  He wasn't even the best defensive end in the game while playing.

 

That was Reggie White.

 

Bruce Smith is still one of the all-time best Buffalo Bills, up there with OJ and only a few others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That’s a difficult debate due to the defenses they played in 46 & 43 vs 34. That said, either could play in the others scheme. They were just too talented. Of course it’s not fair to add in Whites USFL sacks (23?) either, or the fact that he played a USFL season and NFL season in the same year and still posted 13 sacks in 13 games. 

[Protocal69]

13 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I'll give you another shocking statistic!  He wasn't even the best defensive end in the game while playing.

 

That was Reggie White.

 

Bruce Smith is still one of the all-time best Buffalo Bills, up there with OJ and only a few others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That isn’t true. To play a 3-4 defensive end and to be top 5 in sacks every year is crazy. Reggie White is all time great but Reggie White had more help on the Defensive line as a 4-3 defensive end.

[djp14150]

48 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

I had to double check this but it is true...totally crazy!  

 

In Smith's best year when he had 19 sacks in 1990, Derrick Thomas of the Chiefs had 20. His second highest total was 15 in 1986 when Lawrence Taylor had 20.5 and Smith was actually 5th after Taylor, Dexter Manley with 18.5, Reggie White with 18, and Sean Jones with 15.5. He had 14 3 times and 13 twice as well. 

 

In all, Smith had 13 seasons where he had double digit sacks.  12 were with the Bills, the other was his second season in Washington at age 37.  

 

He did lead the NFL twice in forced fumbles with 5 in 1994 and 1996, and is 8th in career forced fumbles with 43. Robert Mathis is all time leader in forced fumbles with 54. Julius Peppers 2nd at 52. Active leaders are Chandler Jones and Robert Quinn tied with 27.

Reggie white career was over the same time.

 

from year in and out you had different people have high sack years.  

 

[Big Turk]

33 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

I'll give you another shocking statistic!  He wasn't even the best defensive end in the game while playing.

 

That was Reggie White.

 

Bruce Smith is still one of the all-time best Buffalo Bills, up there with OJ and only a few others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I might have to agree with that actually...White finished his career with only 2 fewer sacks than Smith but played in 47 fewer games(279 for Smith to 232 for White). White's first year in the NFL was at age 24 versus age 22 for Smith, so they weren't old washed up years he missed either. Pretty apparent if White played in the equivalent of almost 3 more seasons worth of games he would have far outpaced Smith's record and would have had somewhere around 238 sacks if he kept up his .85 sacks/game average over his career.

 

Actually Pro Football Reference agrees as well, putting White #1 all time at DE with a career AV of 156, with Smith #2 at 147. 

Their Hall of Fame Monitor also ranks White #1 at 237.75 points with Smith again #2 at 211.35.  

 

No shame at this, White was an absolute monster as well...crazy how what might be the 2 best DE's in NFL history(Deacon Jones might want to chime in) both were contemporaries to each other

17 minutes ago, Protocal69 said:

That isn’t true. To play a 3-4 defensive end and to be top 5 in sacks every year is crazy. Reggie White is all time great but Reggie White had more help on the Defensive line as a 4-3 defensive end.

 

That is also true...the edge rushers in a 3-4 scheme are typically the 2 OLB's whereas the DE's are usually bigger and more stout to defend the run. I wonder what Smith would have done in a 4-3 scheme. So how many sacks did Smith miss out on from a scheme standpoint that he would have gotten in a 4-3??

Edited November 12, 2020 by matter2003

[Jay_Fixit]

33 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Want to hear something amazing?  I was out the other day and I saw this guy wearing sandals with his jeans and a hoodie....I thought it looked ridiculous.  I'm going to stop doing that.

It’s only taken what, 13 years?

[Warcodered]

It's all about consistency.

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

It’s only taken what, 13 years?

 

The style went away but it will come back like the mustache.

[BillsfaninChicago]

Another first round bust

[hondo in seattle]

When did "pressures" become a stat?  I wonder how Bruce did there.

[Mango]

38 minutes ago, Protocal69 said:

That isn’t true. To play a 3-4 defensive end and to be top 5 in sacks every year is crazy. Reggie White is all time great but Reggie White had more help on the Defensive line as a 4-3 defensive end.

 

THIS!!!

How many double digit sack seasons do we see from 3-4 ends total. There aren't 12 guys in the league who play 3-4DE with double digit sacks. Bruce did it 13 times. 

Come on guys. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

I had to double check this but it is true...totally crazy!  

 

In Smith's best year when he had 19 sacks in 1990, Derrick Thomas of the Chiefs had 20. His second highest total was 15 in 1986 when Lawrence Taylor had 20.5 and Smith was actually 5th after Taylor, Dexter Manley with 18.5, Reggie White with 18, and Sean Jones with 15.5. He had 14 3 times and 13 twice as well. 

 

In all, Smith had 13 seasons where he had double digit sacks.  12 were with the Bills, the other was his second season in Washington at age 37.  

 

He did lead the NFL twice in forced fumbles with 5 in 1994 and 1996, and is 8th in career forced fumbles with 43. Robert Mathis is all time leader in forced fumbles with 54. Julius Peppers 2nd at 52. Active leaders are Chandler Jones and Robert Quinn tied with 27.

Your right Bruce Smith sucked.

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

If Bruce played in a 4-3 defense, he might've had 300 sacks. He's the only DE to AVERAGE double digit sacks over a (19 year) career.

# 78, was the greatest Buffalo Bill ever, IMO....Reggiewas a great player, but he couldn't hold Bruce's jock...

 

That's not true.  Reggie White averaged 13.2 sacks per year over his 15 year career while Smith averaged 10.5 per year over his 19 year career.  White averaged a little under 3 sacks per year more than Smith did per year.

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

A Bills WR has never led the NFL in either yards, receptions or touchdowns.  

 

 

Build.  That.  Dome.  

[Nuncha]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

I'll give you another shocking statistic!  He wasn't even the best defensive end in the game while playing.

 

That was Reggie White.

 

Bruce Smith is still one of the all-time best Buffalo Bills, up there with OJ and only a few others.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bruce was the quickest DE at the snap that I have ever seen.  Reggie was pure power.  Bruce ran around linemen to get to the QB, Reggie pretty much went through them.  Two great players, two completely different styles.

Edited November 12, 2020 by Azucho98

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, BUFFALOBART said:

If Bruce played in a 4-3 defense, he might've had 300 sacks. He's the only DE to AVERAGE double digit sacks over a (19 year) career.

# 78, was the greatest Buffalo Bill ever, IMO....Reggiewas a great player, but he couldn't hold Bruce's jock...

 

 

White was great but the 46 defense for a DE was like being a WR in the run and shoot.........the design produced numbers.......in that case sacks and TFL's........but at the risk of big plays.

 

White also got sack-fat off of a lot of really poor right tackles while Bruce was playing against a lot of stud LT's.    His finest moment as a pro was his 2 sacks against the lowly Max Lane...basically a guard playing out of position......in the Super Bowl.    That was about the equivalent of when Bruce lined up against Everett McIver and Bruce Matthews at LT..........he put up 9 sacks and knocked Boomer Esiason out cold over those two games.  

 

When Reggie had to go up against Erik Williams of the Cowboys........the only real top-LT-quality comp at RT........he was obliterated...........he put up a no tackle, no sack game against him in the playoffs..........so he would have had his hands full against the league's better LT's like Richmond Webb and Bruce Armstrong in the AFC East.

 

That's not to say White wasn't one of the best ever..........but the reality is that he also had every advantage a DE could ever ask for..........his circumstances permitted him to max out his production.

   

Bruce played in a "read and react" 34 defense.    He rushed the passer a fair share but that defense just wasn't designed to wreak havoc at the expense of the back end.   When he finally got to play in a 4-3,  he was already very old and washed up, but he immediately put up a 10 sack season.   And while with Washington he was basically the only guy in the league who was giving Orlando Pace and Walter Jones fits in pass pro. 

 

Bruce is the all time sack leader but he was also the best,  full sized defensive lineman pass rusher ever.    There have been a lot of great pass rushers in the past 20 years but they haven't made one quite like him and his rare combination of size, speed, quickness, technique, power, long arms and that ground hugging bend since.   

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by BADOLBILZ

[LeGOATski]

Bruce is the greatest Bill and greatest lb-for-lb player to ever step foot on an NFL field.

FIGHT ME!!

[BuffaloRebound]

Reggie White was awesome but he played in a 4-3 with All Pro’s all over that Philly D-Line.  Bruce was a 1 man show.  

[RobbRiddick]

Another cool stat, JJ Watt just got to 100 sacks, an amazing milestone. Yet Bruuuuuuuuuuuce ended with 200. TWO HUNDRED. He obviously played  a hell of a lot longer but there's no way Watt will ever get close to that. In fact his longevity is one of the amazing things about him.

[That's No Moon]

1 hour ago, Protocal69 said:

That isn’t true. To play a 3-4 defensive end and to be top 5 in sacks every year is crazy. Reggie White is all time great but Reggie White had more help on the Defensive line as a 4-3 defensive end.

Imagine Bruce not only playing in a 4-3, but in a Jim Washburn style wide-nine 4-3.

[Protocal69]

Just now, That's No Moon said:

Imagine Bruce not only playing in a 4-3, but in a Jim Washburn style wide-nine 4-3.

It would have been 250 career sacks min

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, matter2003 said:

I had to double check this but it is true...totally crazy!  

 

In Smith's best year when he had 19 sacks in 1990, Derrick Thomas of the Chiefs had 20. His second highest total was 15 in 1986 when Lawrence Taylor had 20.5 and Smith was actually 5th after Taylor, Dexter Manley with 18.5, Reggie White with 18, and Sean Jones with 15.5. He had 14 3 times and 13 twice as well. 

 

In all, Smith had 13 seasons where he had double digit sacks.  12 were with the Bills, the other was his second season in Washington at age 37.  

 

He did lead the NFL twice in forced fumbles with 5 in 1994 and 1996, and is 8th in career forced fumbles with 43. Robert Mathis is all time leader in forced fumbles with 54. Julius Peppers 2nd at 52. Active leaders are Chandler Jones and Robert Quinn tied with 27.

You mean the guy over 18 years which is a feat in itself of the NFL record of 200 sacks in a 3-4 defense as a DE, which was unheard of back then Bruce Smith.  I know he didn’t blow it up, but what he did was just keep winning over 18 YEARS.  He’s the best Bills athlete we’ve ever had on this team.  It’s not even close,

[Ethan in Cleveland]

A Bills TE has never made the ProBowl. Not one since 1960.

26 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Imagine Bruce not only playing in a 4-3, but in a Jim Washburn style wide-nine 4-3.

Some dumb DC would look at his speed and have him drop in coverage too often. Hopefully just like LT did, he would ignore the play call and just rush the passer

10 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

You mean the guy over 18 years which is a feat in itself of the NFL record of 200 sacks in a 3-4 defense as a DE, which was unheard of back then Bruce Smith.  I know he didn’t blow it up, but what he did was just keep winning over 18 YEARS.  He’s the best Bills athlete we’ve ever had on this team.  It’s not even close,

As an athlete, OJ would be comparable given the size and power he had to go along with his speed. But I completely agree, Bruce is best Bills player of all time.

[machine gun kelly]

No argument Ethan on OJ.  Most of us didn’t see him.  I was 3 when he hit the 2003 mark, and only an early memory for me as my oldest brother and dad went nuts, so I didn’t know why they were excited, but they explained later.  No one wants to talk about him because of post career, but he was a man amongst boys.  Thanks for sharing.

[JMF2006]

200 sacks from a 3-4 DE is phenomenal thats why the man is in the HOF  

 

Very hard to lead the league unless your a 4-3 end or a specialist pass rush  3-4 OLB

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, H2o said:

Steroids cause your body to break down eventually. 

half my high school team was cycling roids and they’re were no superstars.  I’d assume more nfl players did than didnt.