Ngakoue Watch is officially on!

[DrDawkinstein]

8 minutes ago, H2o said:

He's not worth the $$$ he thinks he is. We have a few key guys coming up on the end of their rookie deals we need to re-sign. Dawkins, Tre, and Milano. Josh and Edmunds will be up for new deals before you know it. They also have to take into account the possible financial impact of Covid in all of this. If the salary cap goes down next year then we need flexibility to sign these other guys. It's not smart to give up assets for and then have to pay a DE $18,000,000-$20,000,000 per season (even though I think Ngakoue's looking for even more than that). 

 

Sure. I understand all the reasons to not sign him, and I dont really think it will happen.

 

But it isnt as difficult or as dire as you and others are saying either. The only new factor which is an unknown is what will happen with the Cap next year. I dont believe it will go down though.

 

IMO the time to add high-priced talent to the team is right now, while all those guys are on rookie contracts (especially Josh). Beane can figure out the fallout when the time comes, that's why they pay him the big bucks.

 

If we DID trade for/sign him, I wouldnt be upset.

[machine gun kelly]

H2O, on that we agree.  I’ve made the same points before.  Murphy and Hughes are gone after this year. I could see a toss up on us keeping Murphy.  He played well at the end of the year, but adding $8 mil. To the $20 mil. we have could be enough for Dawkins and Milano.  White can come either next year, or in two if we exercise the 5th option.  We then could add the 5th and go another year on Allen.

 

Its very logical.  I’m on the side of cutting Murphy to extend the two mentioned above.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, machine gun kelly said:

H2O, on that we agree.  I’ve made the same points before.  Murphy and Hughes are gone after this year. I could see a toss up on us keeping Murphy.  He played well at the end of the year, but adding $8 mil. To the $20 mil. we have could be enough for Dawkins and Milano.  White can come either next year, or in two if we exercise the 5th option.  We then could add the 5th and go another year on Allen.

 

Its very logical.  I’m on the side of cutting Murphy to extend the two mentioned above.

 

And Edmunds who was also a 1st round pick. So lots of flexibility there.

[H2o]

I understand we have some flexibility, but I think that flexibility needs to be reserved for our core group first. Yannick is alright, but he only had 1.5 more sacks last year than Shaq on 300 more snaps. That hardly screams $20,000,000 per season to me. Then throw in the possibility of giving up a 1st as well? That's a pass over here. I don't see him as a difference maker like Von Miller, or Chandler Jones, Khalil Mack, or either Bosa. I don't see him as an addition that would put us over the top in the AFC. I think we have a group collectively right now that is going to surprise some people to be honest. If we get back a 100% healthy Hughes then you throw in Addison, Murphy, Johnson, and Epenesa? I think we could get 30-35 sacks from the DE position alone, possibly more if Hughes is on his game and Addision keeps with his average over the last few seasons. Also, with the guys we have now outside of Murphy, I think our run defense is going to be better on the edges. This isn't even counting the fact that Jefferson has some scheme versatility to play multiple positions along the front. I also think we added more than we lost on the interior of the defense by getting Jefferson, along with Butler, and then we have Harry coming back. I have full confidence in this team to get 50 sacks this year without Yannick. I can't see us paying the price to get him and then keep him.

[BullBuchanan]

Max I'd pay him is $12M. He's not a top end DE.

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, H2o said:

I understand we have some flexibility, but I think that flexibility needs to be reserved for our core group first. Yannick is alright, but he only had 1.5 more sacks last year than Shaq on 300 more snaps. That hardly screams $20,000,000 per season to me. Then throw in the possibility of giving up a 1st as well? That's a pass over here. I don't see him as a difference maker like Von Miller, or Chandler Jones, Khalil Mack, or either Bosa. I don't see him as an addition that would put us over the top in the AFC. I think we have a group collectively right now that is going to surprise some people to be honest. If we get back a 100% healthy Hughes then you throw in Addison, Murphy, Johnson, and Epenesa? I think we could get 30-35 sacks from the DE position alone, possibly more if Hughes is on his game and Addision keeps with his average over the last few seasons. Also, with the guys we have now outside of Murphy, I think our run defense is going to be better on the edges. This isn't even counting the fact that Jefferson has some scheme versatility to play multiple positions along the front. I also think we added more than we lost on the interior of the defense by getting Jefferson, along with Butler, and then we have Harry coming back. I have full confidence in this team to get 50 sacks this year without Yannick. I can't see us paying the price to get him and then keep him.

Agreed.  I really hope we don’t give up a high pick and pay this guy 20 mill a year.  He’s good.  Not that good imo.  I’d rather allocate resources elsewhere 

[eball]

14 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Agreed.  I really hope we don’t give up a high pick and pay this guy 20 mill a year.  He’s good.  Not that good imo.  I’d rather allocate resources elsewhere 

 

This doesn't feel like it would be a Beane move...

[DrDawkinstein]

22 minutes ago, eball said:

 

This doesn't feel like it would be a Beane move...

 

In fairness, we dont really know what a "BEane move" is at this point of the rebuild.

 

I agree it isnt a year 1 or 2 Beane move. That doesnt mean it's not a year 3 or 4 Beane move when he has his cap cleared and draft picks in place.

[blacklabel]

No thanks. Guy drags his contract dispute into social media and tries calling out his GM and whatnot. Has an overinflated sense of ego, doesn't seem like a team guy, therefore, not a process guy. 

[Buff76ers]

5 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Buff, over the same 4 years, Addison had 39 sacks and Ngokue had 37.  Yanni i is demanding $20 mil./yrs. and would need to give away picks.  He’s not worth it.  Addison, Epenesa, Butler, H. Phillips, Jefferson, added to Hughes, and Star is enough.  We most likely move on from Hughes next year, but Epenesa will have a year under his belt, and guess what position will be our #1 pick next year.

Good thinking. 

[HappyDays]

 

[LLCoolCy]

My best guess is Seattle... maybe Dallas?

[HappyDays]

I'd trade a 2nd plus Hughes for him, that's a no brainer to me. Especially considering how weird the draft will be next year. But my gut tells me we're not involved due to other upcoming contracts.

[whatdrought]

6 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

A 2 plus Murphy would be nice, but I doubt we’re interested. They’re happy with their nucleus and I doubt they think he’s the missing piece alone. 

[DJB]

I'll say Dallas because McCoy is out.  Seems like a Jerry thing to do 

[whatdrought]

5 minutes ago, LLCoolCy said:

My best guess is Seattle... maybe Dallas?

Seattle seems questionable cause of just spending a boat on Adams. Dallas just signed Everton Griffen but could still make sense. 
 

Eagles make sense, as do the Patriots and the Jets. 
 

It’s a Clowney situation though wherein you send a second (in a draft that seems likely to suck) and you get him for one year, can tag him next year or sign him, and if not you let him walk and get a comp pick. It’s a good deal for a whole lot of teams- is included. 
 

@HappyDays - correct me if I’m wrong, but they can’t negotiate with him now, right? So he could essentially be a rental and comp pick if we’re worried about future $$.

[thenorthremembers]

Have a very strong feeling he is coming to the AFC East with Miami.  They just put their starting Rush Linebacker on IR with an ACL yesterday, they have the picks, and they have the cash.

[thebandit27]

Watch out for New Orleans 

[Mark Vader]

57 minutes ago, LLCoolCy said:

My best guess is Seattle... maybe Dallas?

After the trade for Jamal Adams, do the Seahawks even have any draft picks left to trade?

[whatdrought]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

Watch out for New Orleans 

 

He'd be a great addition for their devastating playoff loss.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Since there's no extension the "more picks" won't be what they probably could've received beforehand.  I like the player - 14 FF in 4 seasons is really good.  His 4 last season would've lead the team.

 

The only ? i have is - you sign addison and jefferson.  Then draft epenesa.  Now you're bringing in a 4th new DE in the same offseason while still having hughes?  Is the need there?

[whatdrought]

22 minutes ago, dneveu said:

Since there's no extension the "more picks" won't be what they probably could've received beforehand.  I like the player - 14 FF in 4 seasons is really good.  His 4 last season would've lead the team.

 

The only ? i have is - you sign addison and jefferson.  Then draft epenesa.  Now you're bringing in a 4th new DE in the same offseason while still having hughes?  Is the need there?

 

Im a personal believer in the idea that you can't have too many pass rushers to throw at offenses. I think we've seen several teams win Superbowls in the last 20 years under that philosophy. That being said, I don't know if he's of more value now than say a young, price controlled pass rusher in the second round next year would be. 

[HappyDays]

 

Imagine spending months complaining about the Jaguars only to get traded to Adam Gase.

[ngbills]

21 minutes ago, dneveu said:

Since there's no extension the "more picks" won't be what they probably could've received beforehand.  I like the player - 14 FF in 4 seasons is really good.  His 4 last season would've lead the team.

 

The only ? i have is - you sign addison and jefferson.  Then draft epenesa.  Now you're bringing in a 4th new DE in the same offseason while still having hughes?  Is the need there?

Murphy is gone after this year. If you get the guy you can then let go of Hughes or Addison as well and both would not be a huge amount of dead cap. Jefferson could be gone as well. I think its a no brainer if you can get him for a 2nd. How can you justify Diggs for a 1st and not this guy for a 2nd. Bigger need is only logic, but I would say our pass rush is a huge need. 

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Imagine spending months complaining about the Jaguars only to get traded to Adam Gase.

Wouldn’t mind the Jets making this move.. 
 

Ngakoue is a nice player,  but not elite.  Certainly not a player I want to trade a pick & overpay for. 
 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by SCBills

[Bleedingreennc]

I will take any pass rushers at this point.

[DCofNC]

Reality, the bills don’t have any pass rushers of his caliber.  Hughes was close in his prime and not that he’s bad, but he’s not what he was. I’d give up next years first for him right now, the draft is going to be a ***** show anyway.   Take the sure thing.

[BillsMafi$]

Yannick Ngakoue and Mario Addison both have 29.5 sacks in the last three years.
 

just saying.

 

(and yea I know there’s a big age difference) 

 

gimmie 3 years of Mario at his salary then yannick and what we would have to trade for him and his salary 

[whatdrought]

15 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Imagine spending months complaining about the Jaguars only to get traded to Adam Gase.

 

 

Much akin to Leveon bell complaining about being on a good team and then signing for less money with the Jets... Stupid is as stupid does.

[Rc2catch]

I’d trade a 2 for him, let him play on his tag and let him walk if he’s not over 10+ sacks. 
I would not pay that guy given his attitude and twitter account before he produced on my team and proved himself a team first player 

[dje85]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

Reality, the bills don’t have any pass rushers of his caliber.  Hughes was close in his prime and not that he’s bad, but he’s not what he was. I’d give up next years first for him right now, the draft is going to be a ***** show anyway.   Take the sure thing.

 

We signed Mario Addison this off season. He is a great pass rusher and we don;t need Ngakou. But with thtat said I wouldn't give more than a second for Ngakou with the contract he is going to demand. I doubt any other NFL team trades more than a second rounder either. 

[Just Joshin']

32 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I’d trade a 2 for him, let him play on his tag and let him walk if he’s not over 10+ sacks. 
I would not pay that guy given his attitude and twitter account before he produced on my team and proved himself a team first player 

A 2nd for a 1 year rental is high.  Since you can not sign him to a new contract, you may need to let him go or sign him to a second, expensive tag next year.  Seems like high risk, moderate reward.

[BruceVilanch]

10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

No way... Mario is 34 and showed red flags of decline last season. 

He increased his sack total last year from 2018 and had one less tackle. What red flags are you talking about? He has had at least 9 sacks since 2016, I see consistency. Also, he is 32, not 34.

Edited August 19, 2020 by BruceVilanch

[machine gun kelly]

Ngakoue is a thorn, and wants $20 mil.  He is absolutely not worth it.  Besides the $, and oh by the way we know the cap will crash to $175 mil. as it’s inevitable from an expectations before this pandemic of contracts, and think $210 mil., that we purged these nuts contracts.  Even Diggs, was a steal, not in terms of draft picks, but most guys like him are making $16-18 mil.  Even with his converted $, it was not more $, just mov3 forward which was smart.  This administration is making very shrewd decisions, and not fantasy football stuff.

 

We need draft picks at a premium As it’s cheap labor in a tough year and foolish to give them away and spend a ton. That’s what put us in the 17 year drought.

[Rubes]

10 minutes ago, BruceVilanch said:

He increased his sack total last year from 2018 and had one less tackle. What red flags are you talking about? He has had at least 9 sacks since 2016, I see consistency. Also, he is 32, not 34.

 

Other than that, he makes a good point.

?

[Inigo Montoya]

There is no way Beane signs Ngakoue without having an agreement already in place for an extension.  He isn't Bill O'Brien.  I would love to add a DE like Ngakoue if they can get the numbers right.  If you cut Murphy or trade him you clear a lot of cap space that can go towards Ngakoue's contract.  Addison is 32 and obviously isn't the long term answer here.  This Bills roster is on the cusp of being a legit Super Bowl contender.  An elite DE may be the final piece of the puzzle.  This is why you manage your cap wisely so that when an opportunity like this comes up you have the means to take advantage of it.

 

This move might be the one that puts this team over the top.  I'm all for it if Beane can make it happen.

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Inigo Montoya

[GETTOTHE50]

The jets can have him. That team is like the 2000s-2010s Bills teams. Patch work oline, no receiver talent, terrible HC, but with a marginally better QB (jury’s still out here) and a worse defense.

 

that organization is going to go through a bills-like playoff drought.

[Doc]

Why would the Jets even bother?  They're years away from contending.

[MiltonWaddams]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

Why would the Jets even bother?  They're years away from contending.

That statement would indicate that you even see a future glimpse of contention. I do not and thus appreciate them making poor current investments so as to keep any glimmer of hope they may have at bay.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, MiltonWaddams said:

That statement would indicate that you even see a future glimpse of contention. I do not and thus appreciate them making poor current investments so as to keep any glimmer of hope they may have at bay.

 

Decades are still "years away."