Convince me that the 2020 Pats are good...

[section122]

@Kirby Jackson I won't argue that.  In fact I will take the complete opposite side of the fence.  I am expecting the Pats* to be in the top 10 drafting next year and getting one of Fields, Lawrence (don't think they will be bad enough), Trey Lance, or a different top qb prospect.  5-11 drafted 5th overall and 6-10 got the 9th pick.  Next year they will have a ton of cap room as well as a ton of open roster spots.

 

Even though Brady had a down year he was still Brady.  The second Pats/Bills game showed that he still had something left in the tank.  His quick release and decision making covers a lot of o-line issues.  Scar retiring is another huge loss.  They took a huge step back a couple of years ago when he left and I expect the same.  The offense already wasn't top notch and lost 2 very important pieces.

 

The defensive losses have not been discussed enough.  VanNoy and Collins may struggle elsewhere but they were great pieces for the defense.  

 

Special Teams also took a hit losing their coordinator and Nate Ebner to the Giants.  Gost wasn't his normal and injured self but still losing one of the most reliable kickers in the league and replacing him with a rookie is a question mark at the least.

 

On viewing it looks like all 3 phases of the ball have gotten worse.  I can see 6-10 happening and I only go that high because of how great BB is as a coach.  The East has the dreaded west/west combo leading to a lot of cross country travel, and the 1st place schedule to contend with.  For the first time in a long time I don't see a guaranteed win on their schedule.  Each team they play next year has at least an argument in their favor.

[ALF]

Since NE*  has $2M cap space , I would think they go with the QB they have and see if the D  and good coaching can carry them. If they don't make the playoffs they can blame Brady and the dead cap he left. They must be bored with winning anyway.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/cap/

Edited May 6, 2020 by ALF

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Why would I want to convince you of that? I agree with you. The wheel has finally turned in our favor.

 

[Troll Toll]

They cheat and that makes them a tough opponent regardless of their roster. They’ve also basically been allowed to hold as much as they want without getting called. It will be interesting to see if that was done by the refs to protect Brady (now that he’s gone) or if that tradition continues. When you don’t play under the same rules, the team can be competitive.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Troll Toll

[GaryPinC]

Why they could be a good team:  defense will keep them in games, can the offense do enough? 

 

After looking at a variety of Stidham's preseason games and some of his college film I see why New England got him.  Very similar to Brady in making quick decisions and getting the ball out on an Auburn offense that shares a lot of similarities to the Patriots.

 

Stidham's smart, but I'm not impressed by his arm though it may be adequate.   Patriots might get over .500 with a solid running game and enough YAC and production from their receivers.  They probably need to pull out a lucky win in the first 4 also.  Seriously doubt they'll be better than the Bills.

 

So, I do believe Stidham will get his chance to be the man this year.  They'll let him learn by doing and hope to coach him up enough to be relevant late in the season.

 

Realistically, I think they'll be just under .500.   Stidham's physical talent is more limited than Brady (in his prime) and I think the speed of the NFL will be a problem for him.  His velocity really falls off under pressure and after 15 yards.    He's going to live for the short passes and NFL defenses are going to figure that out.   Definitely a chance the wheels fall off for him but I'm not going to short change Belichick's coaching ability, so I think a mediocre season for the Pats as they prepare for the future.

 

I figure they evaluate Stidham this year, prioritize the need to draft a replacement, and see how things play out next year.

 

[Stank_Nasty]

2 hours ago, Real McNasty said:

I see them as a .500 team. That said, they went 11-5 with friggin Matt Cassel and that D is still a top 5 unit today.

 

We'll see if the system QB thing is real very soon here between the Pats and Bucs

Matt cassel took the chiefs to the playoffs with 27 td and just 7int  2 years after that as well. He was a capable qb at that point in his career. People always seem to think bellicheck was working with a bottom of the barrel qb when cassel came in. That’s simply not the case. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[Prospector]

I am thinking, that without Brady in a Patriots logo, they will stop getting the superstar ref calls. Even when Brady was hurt, they were still his team and considered top quality, so they got the benefit of the doubt calls. kinda like the Jordan Bulls... calls magically went their way in key situations, but when Jordan leaves, all the calls tend to start to even out. I think the same will happen. The sub conscious of the refs will know that Brady isn't the QB, so maybe that actually was an illegal pick or push off. Maybe the horse collar grab block by their RT is illegal, and not just a bang bang play protecting the greatest ever born. I really think we may see a swing in favorable Pats calls from here on out... which I hope relates to a couple extra 'L's for that Cheatriots.

[jrober38]

The Pats will wind up with a top pick and an elite QB prospect next year. 

[Ecmic82]

I don’t think their defense is good enough. When they finally stopped benefitting from record-shattering turnover variance last year, the team struggled to play .500. With downgraded defensive personnel, I’ll go out on a limb and say they WON’T be pushing a turnover created per quarter for half the season.  
 

Having “just” a top 6 or so defense isn’t going to drag this team to respectability.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

So, I’ve been posting this in numerous threads for a few months. I know there are some people with me on it and some that think it’s crazy. The Pats are a bad team. They will win 6 games (and that’s with the greatest coach ever). Someone please make a case as to why they are a threat in the division? Please don’t use some lame reason like, “because they are king’s until they are not” or “because they are always good.” Give FOOTBALL reasoning as to why they are good!!
 

My reasoning as to why they are bad is that they have no talent on offense. Their OL is pretty good but lost their legendary coach. They have, at best, a massive question mark at QB. At worst, they have the worst QB situation in the league. The Pats likely have the worst set of skill players in the NFL as well. Some people are saying that they are going to run the ball and play defense. Their backs aren’t good and they will be forced to run against loaded boxes because no one fears their passing game. How does this team generate offense?!? Please, someone, tell me...

 

The secondary is really good. The pass rush isn’t. They lost Collins and Van Noy this offseason as well as Danny Shelton. That’s 3 starters in their front 7. That defense is no longer elite (although it could still be a top 10ish unit). 
 

Add that to, statistically, the hardest schedule in the NFL and explain to me what I’m missing? Again, no “because they always are” responses. This team has different players and coaches. I’m asking why THIS team is still a threat?  https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/NE
 

I’m hoping that this thread inspires some thoughtful conversation. I suspect that the trauma of 20 years of being the nail has people living in fear for no reason. They will hide behind “because Belichick” because that’s the ONLY thing to stand behind. I’m not sure how many games, against that schedule, a great coach is good for? I think that they win 6 because of Belichick. That’s a 4 win team otherwise IMO. I’d love to hear a real football argument those as to why they can win? 

 

Teams scored 14 or fewer points against them 11 times.  They scored 6 D/ST TDs last year, and that likely won't carry over YoY.  However they ranked #1 in yards and points allowed, so they weren't just some turnover dependent team. They lost collins and van noy - but a lot of me thinks their sack #'s are inflated by the scheme in a way.  They lost flowers last year and actually improved on defense.  I think Dugger is going to be a solid add for them as well.

 

On O - At WR they have Harry (who everyone here liked but has i guess been labeled a bust after 1 year), edelman (best slot receiver in NFL), marqise lee (injury prone, but solid), and sanu (solid #2 who was a midseason pickup and gets a full offseason there).  Their oline is really solid across and they have 2 new TE's that will help as blockers and pass catchers.  4 deep with running backs who do different things.  They're going to need some decent play from QB - but lets not act like their offense was good last year with Brady and injuries at WR, LT, C etc.

 

They played the same easy divisional schedule we did last year, and won more games (as well as beating buffalo twice).  If they split with buffalo in 2020, they probably still clean up nyj and miami.  Theres 5... home games against the rams (gutted roster) and chargers (tyrod or rookie - bad either way), away games against denver (2nd year QB) oakland (gruden) and arizona (2nd year QB). There's 10 wins.    

[Jauronimo]

16 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Matt cassel took the chiefs to the playoffs with 27 td and just 7int  2 years after that as well. He was a capable qb at that point in his career. People always seem to think bellicheck was working with a bottom of the barrel qb when cassel came in. That’s simply not the case. 

He had not started a game since high school.  Its amazing they even found Cassel.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I'm simply looking at the roster and it's not a good roster.

[Stank_Nasty]

4 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

He had not started a game since high school.  Its amazing they even found Cassel.

The point is it’s not the only team he led to a winning record. He wasn’t some bum at that point. 

8 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Teams scored 14 or fewer points against them 11 times.  They scored 6 D/ST TDs last year, and that likely won't carry over YoY.  However they ranked #1 in yards and points allowed, so they weren't just some turnover dependent team. They lost collins and van noy - but a lot of me thinks their sack #'s are inflated by the scheme in a way.  They lost flowers last year and actually improved on defense.  I think Dugger is going to be a solid add for them as well.

 

On O - At WR they have Harry (who everyone here liked but has i guess been labeled a bust after 1 year), edelman (best slot receiver in NFL), marqise lee (injury prone, but solid), and sanu (solid #2 who was a midseason pickup and gets a full offseason there).  Their oline is really solid across and they have 2 new TE's that will help as blockers and pass catchers.  4 deep with running backs who do different things.  They're going to need some decent play from QB - but lets not act like their offense was good last year with Brady and injuries at WR, LT, C etc.

 

They played the same easy divisional schedule we did last year, and won more games (as well as beating buffalo twice).  If they split with buffalo in 2020, they probably still clean up nyj and miami.  Theres 5... home games against the rams (gutted roster) and chargers (tyrod or rookie - bad either way), away games against denver (2nd year QB) oakland (gruden) and arizona (2nd year QB). There's 10 wins.    

You just gave the skill players on their offense more credit than anyone in the last calendar year has. They simply aren’t that good. 
 

And the ease with which you gave them 10 wins is almost comical. Just assuming a sweep of the jets and fins is silly. They couldn’t even do that last season. 
 

 

[Jauronimo]

6 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

The point is it’s not the only team he led to a winning record. He wasn’t some bum at that point. 

When Brady went down he WAS some bum who hadn't started a game since high school.  When Brady went down Cassel, who was in his 4th year in teh league, had 39 NFL career passing attempts, shattering his college record of 33 pass attempts in his illustrious USC career.  

 

After leaving New England he went on to a 26-40 career record.  He had one winning season in KC.  After 2.5 seasons as KC's starter he was benched for Brady Quinn and then released.  

 

Matt Cassel is, was, and still is a bum.  

Edited May 6, 2020 by Jauronimo

[djp14150]

Who will be there Wub?

 

thry still have a good defense and can run the ball.

 

injuries also matter and when you play teams.

 

i see them somewhere in that 7-9 8-8 9-7 range.  It could go up or down 1-2 games based on how games end such as win or Lose games in the last 30 seconds.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, aristocrat said:

their wr corps is not great. edelman is another year older, harry had an awful year, lee could be good.  they are gonna run that ball a lot i think. 

 

Lee won't be good. He sucks. I think Harry "could be good" but that is the category he is in going into year 2.... the "well maybe he is good?" category. I also think the other kid who was an UDFA last year is a decent little player. Myers is it? He isn't a #1 or anything but if they could say get Harry to break out as a #1 and still get a year from Edelman I think he could be a serviceable #3 option.

 

It is just a lot of projection though. Their QB and pass catchers are a combined 32nd of 32 to me. They have a line and they have some backs.... but beyond that the offense is a huge question mark.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

5 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

The point is it’s not the only team he led to a winning record. He wasn’t some bum at that point. 

You just gave the skill players on their offense more credit than anyone in the last calendar year has. They simply aren’t that good. 
 

And the ease with which you gave them 10 wins is almost comical. Just assuming a sweep of the jets and fins is silly. They couldn’t even do that last season. 
 

 

 

Edelman is better than our #2 and 3 WRs and Harry was a rookie who was banged up all year.  They tried to invest in other WRs (gordon, brown) and it bit them all year long, who really thought Sanu was going to come in in October and immediately contribute.  

 

Their defense was better than buffalos in pretty much every category, however so was their offense even with all of the problems.  2 misses at #1 WR as well as injuries to 1st round pick, all-pro TE retired, LT missing time getting fill ins from Marshall newhouse, Center Andrews missed the entire year. 

[Jauronimo]

Unless Stidham dazzles from the start, it could get ugly in New England.  Belichick's schtick is tolerable when you're a perennial super bowl contender but when you're a 5 win team I think players will find the Patriot Way to be exhausting.  Good luck attracting free agents without a QB and a hard ass coach.  With their spoiled media and fair weather fan base I could see the wheels falling off by week 4.  These are fans that booed the Pats at home for starting 2-2.

[TroutDog]

1 hour ago, section122 said:

@Kirby Jackson I won't argue that.  In fact I will take the complete opposite side of the fence.  I am expecting the Pats* to be in the top 10 drafting next year and getting one of Fields, Lawrence (don't think they will be bad enough), Trey Lance, or a different top qb prospect.  5-11 drafted 5th overall and 6-10 got the 9th pick.  Next year they will have a ton of cap room as well as a ton of open roster spots.

 

Even though Brady had a down year he was still Brady.  The second Pats/Bills game showed that he still had something left in the tank.  His quick release and decision making covers a lot of o-line issues.  Scar retiring is another huge loss.  They took a huge step back a couple of years ago when he left and I expect the same.  The offense already wasn't top notch and lost 2 very important pieces.

 

The defensive losses have not been discussed enough.  VanNoy and Collins may struggle elsewhere but they were great pieces for the defense.  

 

Special Teams also took a hit losing their coordinator and Nate Ebner to the Giants.  Gost wasn't his normal and injured self but still losing one of the most reliable kickers in the league and replacing him with a rookie is a question mark at the least.

 

On viewing it looks like all 3 phases of the ball have gotten worse.  I can see 6-10 happening and I only go that high because of how great BB is as a coach.  The East has the dreaded west/west combo leading to a lot of cross country travel, and the 1st place schedule to contend with.  For the first time in a long time I don't see a guaranteed win on their schedule.  Each team they play next year has at least an argument in their favor.

This is an interesting take. Most here have said BB won’t tank and one could consider that not tanking and yet lead them to their next QB. BB may have his sites set on besting Shula’s total win record. 

[LABILLBACKER]

45 minutes ago, WorstTEever81 said:

I am thinking, that without Brady in a Patriots logo, they will stop getting the superstar ref calls. Even when Brady was hurt, they were still his team and considered top quality, so they got the benefit of the doubt calls. kinda like the Jordan Bulls... calls magically went their way in key situations, but when Jordan leaves, all the calls tend to start to even out. I think the same will happen. The sub conscious of the refs will know that Brady isn't the QB, so maybe that actually was an illegal pick or push off. Maybe the horse collar grab block by their RT is illegal, and not just a bang bang play protecting the greatest ever born. I really think we may see a swing in favorable Pats calls from here on out... which I hope relates to a couple extra 'L's for that Cheatriots.

I completely agree. With Brady gone the ref love will be shut off. They will have to fight for every yard and call like everyone else. People will not be turning in to just watch Belichick and a bunch of low scoring games. Advertising "eyes" will go elsewhere. I don't know if Belichick's enormous ego will allow him to tank for Lawrence, but their current roster will struggle to reach 8 wins. No more calls for you Billy boy.

Edited May 6, 2020 by LABILLBACKER

[CardinalScotts]

First lets look how the Patriots won last year:

Brady was down last year but he wasn't terrible at all,  just unable to take over or come up with the back breaking plays he's known for. Still going 12-4  I think we would all take every year from who ever lines up at QB for us. Brady had 2 big games back to back giants and skins 348+334 he was Tom terrific then it really left - he had 3375 in the 14 other games again not terrible but that's 240 a game and not elite putting him 18th in the league. (YES I KNOW REMOVING HIS BEST TWO GAMES) 

As far as the patriots they won games in many different ways:

1) The overlooked specials teams great in many catagories  9th in kick off coverage...9th in punt coverage...10th in punt return ave.....9th in opposition starting average. 20.3 yd line.....there were 9 blocked punts in the entire league they had 4 of them.

            - the kickers they used FOUR kickers Folk, Nugent, Gustkowski, Forbath collectively they hit 80% are you kidding me?

2) Defense great at shutting you down but they do more that  25 interceptions (we had 14)  5 defensive touchdowns...15 forced fumbles (we had 16)

3) When they got the turnovers they whipped on teams, when they didnt they struggled, winning 16-10, 17-10, 13-9 

in the five games new england required the offense to score 20 to win they lost them all  0-5 giving up 20-27-23-28-37 

4) Brady still had some magic in him with clutch throws to Edelman and White that was the offense

 

they lost a few guys as everyone does but Brady was their confidence and leader

I think Bill will play a ball control, conservative, low scoring. gadget playing offense and try to win 13-10

  

Edited May 6, 2020 by CardinalScotts

[MrEpsYtown]

I do not think they are going to miss Collins or Shelton. They really like Adam Butler on the dline. They still have Lawrence Guy, who nobody on our team could block last year, and there is a chance that a guy like Derek Rivers finally puts it together. I don't like Josh Uche as a prospect, but I think he can replace some of what Collins brought to the table. I do think that they guy they are really going to miss is Van Noy. I think he is a pretty  underrated player. However, they always get production out of linebackers off the street like Elandon Roberts, Marquis Flowers, Jonathan Casillas, Ramon Humber. So I don't worry about them there. 

 

I think they have a really good line and good running backs. Now I do not think that Stidham is going to be very good, but I think he is better than lot of people are making him out to be. He has some tools. And for a less than ideal QB to have success you need two things: a good offensive line and a strong run game. So I would not right them off completely, but I do think they are the second best team in the division behind us. 

[CardinalScotts]

10 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

I do not think they are going to miss Collins or Shelton. They really like Adam Butler on the dline. They still have Lawrence Guy, who nobody on our team could block last year, and there is a chance that a guy like Derek Rivers finally puts it together. I don't like Josh Uche as a prospect, but I think he can replace some of what Collins brought to the table. I do think that they guy they are really going to miss is Van Noy. I think he is a pretty  underrated player. However, they always get production out of linebackers off the street like Elandon Roberts, Marquis Flowers, Jonathan Casillas, Ramon Humber. So I don't worry about them there. 

 

I think they have a really good line and good running backs. Now I do not think that Stidham is going to be very good, but I think he is better than lot of people are making him out to be. He has some tools. And for a less than ideal QB to have success you need two things: a good offensive line and a strong run game. So I would not right them off completely, but I do think they are the second best team in the division behind us. 

YES!!  we cant get Guy blocked it was amazing to watch I thought I was the only one who noticed

4 hours ago, BeastMaster said:

I won't say they will be good, but I think they could be 8-8 or possibly 9-7.

 

The defense will carry the load while the offense will try to grind out points. New England has done a fantastic job utilizing their backs in the pass game and that is very helpful to a young QB. I can see them playing small ball and letting the defense hold up...alot like this Bills team of the past few seasons. 

 

Also, you cannot discount McDaniels and Belicheck being able to outcoach their opponents. McDermott has never been able to match wits with Billy.

 

I think it's foolish to make a definitive statement for either side, but to say they won't be a good team is something I'm not ready to write off.

match wits honestly he's shut brady down a lot and out coached Bill......just short a couple vet play makers who come up with the plays 

[CardinalScotts]

3 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

This was a good year to land a QB in free agency, yet Belichik is rolling the dice with Stidham and Hoyer.  Either he’s tanking or he has more confidence in his QB’s than Dalton, Winston, Newton, etc.  He won 11 games with Matt Cassell and rolled the dice on Brady when he was an unknown afterthought.  Maybe they’ll stink but Belichik has more than earned the benefit of the doubt.  It’s not laziness to think they could win division.  

the cassell year they were first on defense 1st in pts allowed, first in yards, 1st against the pass and led the league in turnovers

52 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

He had not started a game since high school.  Its amazing they even found Cassel.

gee he went to USC - do they have athletic scholarships at USC

he won with the top defense in the league...Cassel went 10-5 not 11 and lead the league in getting sacked....it was a dont lose it for us Matt

[aristocrat]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Lee won't be good. He sucks. I think Harry "could be good" but that is the category he is in going into year 2.... the "well maybe he is good?" category. I also think the other kid who was an UDFA last year is a decent little player. Myers is it? He isn't a #1 or anything but if they could say get Harry to break out as a #1 and still get a year from Edelman I think he could be a serviceable #3 option.

 

It is just a lot of projection though. Their QB and pass catchers are a combined 32nd of 32 to me. They have a line and they have some backs.... but beyond that the offense is a huge question mark.

 

lee has at least shown that he can play in the league. harry has shown nothing. sure he was coming off injury but now he's got no off season and a new qb.  they have a lot of questions on offense thats for sure

[GunnerBill]

Just now, aristocrat said:

 

lee has at least shown that he can play in the league. harry has shown nothing. sure he was coming off injury but now he's got no off season and a new qb.  they have a lot of questions on offense thats for sure

 

I must have missed the week Marquise Lee looked like an NFL receiver. Agree Harry has shown nothing yet but he does still have talent.

[Jauronimo]

5 minutes ago, CardinalScotts said:

the cassell year they were first on defense 1st in pts allowed, first in yards, 1st against the pass and led the league in turnovers

gee he went to USC - do they have athletic scholarships at USC

he won with the top defense in the league...Cassel went 10-5 not 11 and lead the league in getting sacked....it was a dont lose it for us Matt

Gee, how many guys get drafted who didn't make a college start?  One of those 33 college passes must have been a beauty.  I wonder which one scouts liked the most?

[aristocrat]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I must have missed the week Marquise Lee looked like an NFL receiver. Agree Harry has shown nothing yet but he does still have talent.

 

lee with a couple years of 860 yards and over 700 yards aren't world beating numbers but they're enough to keep you in the league.  harry has 100 yards in 7 games and looked lost out there. 

[blacklabel]

I think their defense is still going to be pretty good. And it's going to be the focal point because it's the more talented unit. They're gonna look to score 17-20 points a game and then let the defense close it out. Offensively, they're still able to adjust their schemes pretty well. One week they're a power running team, the next week they're a West Coast dink and dunkeroo show. A lot of that will depend on Stidham, though. I don't care how high they are on him, he's still going to struggle in his first year against NFL starters. They also lost Dante Scarnecchia, the OL coach. The last time he retired, the OL went straight to Poopsville, so much so that Bellychunx called and persuaded Scarnecchia to come back. Without him there, I'd like to think they'll make a long awaited return to Poopsville. They certainly won't be able to hide behind Brady's quick snap-to-throw times. 

 

It's just difficult to count them out either way, Brady or no Brady. They still have Bellychunx who is a situational football wizard and could probably find ways to win with a JV team. 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

The Pats will wind up with a top pick and an elite QB prospect next year. 

 

See I don't think they'll be that bad. I don't see how they end up worse than the Jaguars, Jets, Dolphins, Redskins, Raiders... there will be at least 2 teams worse than them that will need a QB. Belichick is good enough to carry a bad roster to 5 or 6 wins.

[PromoTheRobot]

It's BBFS. Battered Bill Fan Syndrome. Belichick lives in your head.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I don't see how the Patriots trying to win by managing Stidham and leaning on defense, is stylistically a different approach than how Jauron tried to win, how Marrone tried to win, how Rex Ryan tried to win and how McDermott tried to win for 3 years here. Gailey actually threw the ball. 

 

The Bills have mostly had game managing Quarterbacks, where they leaned on defense to keep points as low as possible, shorten the game length, and try to make a living off other teams mistakes.  

 

The main difference is the Patriots have a history of good defensive play, even with rotating spare pieces in and out of the defense, and a mastermind.

 

It is interesting that Patriots passed on their opportunity to sign Dalton and Winston, have passed on Cam thus far, traded down in the Draft.

 

The Bills had an offense that scored 19 ppg in 2019, and allowed 16.2, en route to a 10-6 record. 

 

The Patriots could attempt to do the same thing, bleed clock, kick field goals, live off turnovers. They have the weakest QB room in the league, unless Stidham is good.   

 

 

 

 

[ngbills]

48 minutes ago, CardinalScotts said:

the cassell year they were first on defense 1st in pts allowed, first in yards, 1st against the pass and led the league in turnovers

gee he went to USC - do they have athletic scholarships at USC

he won with the top defense in the league...Cassel went 10-5 not 11 and lead the league in getting sacked....it was a dont lose it for us Matt

No - They were 8th in points, 10th in yards and 7th in 1st downs. Even more they were 20th in turnovers. These numbers were all down from the year before - 4th in both points and yards, 5th in 1st downs and 9th in turnovers. 

[BeastMaster]

55 minutes ago, CardinalScotts said:

YES!!  we cant get Guy blocked it was amazing to watch I thought I was the only one who noticed

match wits honestly he's shut brady down a lot and out coached Bill......just short a couple vet play makers who come up with the plays 

He got schooled on special teams this past season, and Brady took the D apart in week 16 when he could've finished the Pats ourselves.

 

I don't see McD anywhere close to BB in terms of coaching skills, but he's a good coach that should learn and improve with more time and experience, but I can't be convinced he outcoached BB whatsoever. We've had a superior roster and should've been able to win if that was the case.

[hjnick]

I think the first 4-5 weeks is going to dictate what New England does for the rest of their season.

 

They are going to give Stidham every chance to show his still skill and win over the first 4 games.

 

If Stidham has led them to a 3-2 or 4-1 record, they are going to keep trying to win.

If Stidham has led them to a 0-4(or 5) or 1-4 record, I think Bill will try and tank the season to get the #1 pick for Trevor Lawrence.

 

I'm sure New England has scouted him for the 2021 draft and realize how good he is.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Bellycheat and refs   Plus the commish. Nuff said. I see 11 wins

[ALLEN1QB]

They will be lucky to win 4 games.

Edited May 6, 2020 by ALLEN-2-DIGGS-TD!!

[FireChans]

6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

So, I’ve been posting this in numerous threads for a few months. I know there are some people with me on it and some that think it’s crazy. The Pats are a bad team. They will win 6 games (and that’s with the greatest coach ever). Someone please make a case as to why they are a threat in the division? Please don’t use some lame reason like, “because they are king’s until they are not” or “because they are always good.” Give FOOTBALL reasoning as to why they are good!!
 

My reasoning as to why they are bad is that they have no talent on offense. Their OL is pretty good but lost their legendary coach. They have, at best, a massive question mark at QB. At worst, they have the worst QB situation in the league. The Pats likely have the worst set of skill players in the NFL as well. Some people are saying that they are going to run the ball and play defense. Their backs aren’t good and they will be forced to run against loaded boxes because no one fears their passing game. How does this team generate offense?!? Please, someone, tell me...

 

The secondary is really good. The pass rush isn’t. They lost Collins and Van Noy this offseason as well as Danny Shelton. That’s 3 starters in their front 7. That defense is no longer elite (although it could still be a top 10ish unit). 
 

Add that to, statistically, the hardest schedule in the NFL and explain to me what I’m missing? Again, no “because they always are” responses. This team has different players and coaches. I’m asking why THIS team is still a threat?  https://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/NE
 

I’m hoping that this thread inspires some thoughtful conversation. I suspect that the trauma of 20 years of being the nail has people living in fear for no reason. They will hide behind “because Belichick” because that’s the ONLY thing to stand behind. I’m not sure how many games, against that schedule, a great coach is good for? I think that they win 6 because of Belichick. That’s a 4 win team otherwise IMO. I’d love to hear a real football argument those as to why they can win? 

Good football team? I don’t know about that. No guarantee the Bills stomp them twice this season? Absolutely.

[HOUSE]

There are still plenty of ways to cheat

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

they will be in the superbowl against the buccaneers.

 

any questions