Rd 5, Pick 167: QB Jake Fromm, Georgia

[Coach Tuesday]

Peterman’s biggest problem was not his poor arm strength.  It was his decision-making post-snap.

 

The Peterman Experience (band name alert!) seems to have ruined some folks’ ability to evaluate QB play.  Nate Peterman’s biggest problem was that he’d decide where he was throwing pre-snap, and then refuse to adjust no matter what happened post-snap.  As a result he was incredibly reckless.  His weak arm strength exacerbated the problem because he couldn’t use velocity to make up for his poor post-snap decisions.
 

If Fromm is able to actually read a defense post-snap, he’s already in a different category than Peterman.  Based on the clips I’ve been watching, Fromm is already light years ahead of Peterman when it comes to reacting to what the defense is actually doing.  That’s not to say he’ll be any good in the NFL, but the Peterman comparisons are inapt.

 

From McBeane’s perspective, I think they view Fromm as “The Real McCarron.”  A High-character guy who can actually run the offense and play .500 ball if Allen misses time.

[stuvian]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

I don’t see where this observation of “defensiveness” is coming from. The NFL scouts and draft analyst don’t think he’s a starter. Belichick took a kicker instead of him and he needs a QB. He’s a great kid by all accounts and had a successful college career but has a low ceiling due to his arm and that’s why he’s a late rounder.  It is an odd comment to make that you think people are trying to convince themselves he’s a backup when that’s what everything points to. It’s actually the other way around to tell to convince yourself he’s a starter. Could he become a starter? Sure, others like him have found their way to a start role of even temporarily. But to assume that is a bit of a stretch when his nfl comparison is colt McCoy. 

I'll finish by saying I like Beane's approach to finding value in personnel acquisition through the draft and free agency. There is now depth at most if not all positions. I will continue to root for Josh Allen to develop into a well rounded QB but not blindly. The future is now in Buffalo. This is Clappy's 4th season (correct me if I'm wrong). My preference would be to see Allen succeed and for us to develop Fromm to where we can get 2nd or 3rd for him from a QB starved team. However destiny sometimes changes along the way and I'm open to the Bills reaching success with a backup QB should Allen fail to develop on schedule

[YoloinOhio]

The best part about Fromm if he does make the team is that - and Beane even made this point- he’s a QB on a 4 year deal at a very low cost. I think it’s like 300k gtd. It’s not only positional value it’s cap value. Look at what some of these backup QBs are making 

Edited April 27, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[Doc]

Fromm is currently the 4th QB on the depth chart.  He's got to work his way up the ladder.  He's got the advantage though because he hasn't proven himself to be, at best, a backup QB like Barkley and Webb have, plus he's cheap. 

[Jauronimo]

On 4/25/2020 at 2:28 PM, MAJBobby said:

Yet Combine his ball Velocity same as Eason and Close to Love?

I'm just going to leave this here.

 

https://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-NFL-Combine-2008-2017/10243/dh/

 

Ball speed at the Combine. 

 

Mahomes 55 mph

Deshaun Watson 45 mph

Nathan Peterman 49 mph

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Peterman’s biggest problem was not his poor arm strength.  It was his decision-making post-snap.

 

The Peterman Experience (band name alert!) seems to have ruined some folks’ ability to evaluate QB play.  Nate Peterman’s biggest problem was that he’d decide where he was throwing pre-snap, and then refuse to adjust no matter what happened post-snap.  As a result he was incredibly reckless.  His weak arm strength exacerbated the problem because he couldn’t use velocity to make up for his poor post-snap decisions.
 

If Fromm is able to actually read a defense post-snap, he’s already in a different category than Peterman.  Based on the clips I’ve been watching, Fromm is already light years ahead of Peterman when it comes to reacting to what the defense is actually doing.  That’s not to say he’ll be any good in the NFL, but the Peterman comparisons are inapt.

 

From McBeane’s perspective, I think they view Fromm as “The Real McCarron.”  A High-character guy who can actually run the offense and play .500 ball if Allen misses time.

Yup.  And you knew Peterman wasn't a threat to challenge deep.  

 

In the Houston game after Allen got hurt, the defensive backs were telling their safeties to hang back just in case while the DBs jumped the short routes.  Pick 6.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

A head scratcher at first, this pick has grown on me. Beane wants to create competition at every position, even when he has an entrenched starting QB.  Fromm, who has never failed in the NFL, is more likely to push JA than an aging vet like Flacco, Barkley or any of the other options.  

 

I think what i want from a backup QB is as close to a 50/50 shot to win.  Like if the team is say 11-5 with allen, i would want the backup to get me to 8-8/7-9.  

 

Mostly because if Allen misses half a game, or 2 games or whatever - 50/50 is good odds.  

 

Our current backup is a 30 year old journey man who carries a sub 60% career passer, with no running threat, a 1:2 TD to INT ratio, and 10 fumbles in 14 games.  It was worth it to try and improve the backup QB.  

[CapeBreton]

55 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I'm just going to leave this here.

 

https://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-NFL-Combine-2008-2017/10243/dh/

 

Ball speed at the Combine. 

 

Mahomes 55 mph

Deshaun Watson 45 mph

Nathan Peterman 49 mph

Yup.  And you knew Peterman wasn't a threat to challenge deep.  

 

In the Houston game after Allen got hurt, the defensive backs were telling their safeties to hang back just in case while the DBs jumped the short routes.  Pick 6.

are these numbers accurate? I have so many questions. Lamar Jackson’s velocity was quite awful at 49 mph. I’m also surprised by Jared Goff at 58, I never thought he had much velocity on his throws.

[Iverwig]

1 hour ago, CapeBreton said:

are these numbers accurate? I have so many questions. Lamar Jackson’s velocity was quite awful at 49 mph. I’m also surprised by Jared Goff at 58, I never thought he had much velocity on his throws.

I have seen this list before but what we don’t know is the conditions the ball were thrown in and what determines the velocity. All I know is it only matters on game day.
 

Example: You can take two baseball pitchers where one may throw 90mph on a radar but when the batter steps in they no longer throw 90 and may clock 84. Then you take someone who throws 86 and they will still clock 86 in the game. Before game day the most would take the 90mph pitcher all day. 
 

different sport I know but I find it hard to believe LJ clocks 49 and is drafted in the 1st round if this list was legit. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[DCOrange]

Fromm has the potential to be a really nice fit here: a backup QB that is capable of being a below-average starter, but more importantly, a guy that can make reads pretty well and get the ball into the hands of our playmakers (now that we're finally starting to have some playmakers on the team) to keep the offense on schedule.

 

He certainly doesn't have Josh Allen's upside. But I think he's likely to end up around the same level of player that Barkley is right now and there's at least a little bit of upside that he could become something like a poor man's Marc Bulger or something like that.

[Ennjay]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

Fromm is currently the 4th QB on the depth chart.  He's got to work his way up the ladder.  He's got the advantage though because he hasn't proven himself to be, at best, a backup QB like Barkley and Webb have, plus he's cheap. 

 

And here I thought drafting Fromm meant the Davis Webb era is over.

 

The only question in my mind here -- seriously -- is whether they'll put Fromm on the roster or chance waiving him to the PS.  Webb is a non-factor and Barkley is on the last year of his contract, so Fromm was drafted to fill the luxury position of backup QB for the longer term, not 2020.  They like saving the roster space by carrying only 2 QB's and I think they'll carry two kickers with Bass handling KO's.  They also like DL's and WR's in numbers.  So there will be some tough decisions coming this year.

 

And I wouldn't be surprised if Fromm spent '20 on IR either.  Just sayin'.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, CapeBreton said:

are these numbers accurate? I have so many questions. Lamar Jackson’s velocity was quite awful at 49 mph. I’m also surprised by Jared Goff at 58, I never thought he had much velocity on his throws.

 

I believe its like a sideline out route - and they do one to each side of the field.  Trying to simulate a situation where you would want to throw a heater.

 

You know which ones they are like checking velocity on, but i think if you throw it out of bounds trying to put mustard on it that wouldn't look good either.  I know some of the softer arm guys train this one to try and up the numbers so their "weak" arm doesn't test weak.  

 

[Charles Romes]

I'm just going to leave this here.

 

https://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-NFL-Combine-2008-2017/10243/dh/

 

Ball speed at the Combine. 

 

Mahomes 55 mph

Deshaun Watson 45 mph

Nathan Peterman 49 mph

Yup.  And you knew Peterman wasn't a threat to challenge deep.  

 

In the Houston game after Allen got hurt, the defensive backs were telling their safeties to hang back just in case while the DBs jumped the short routes.  Pick 6.

 

 

 

Josh Allen the official

combine GOAT at 62 mph! 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Iverwig said:

I have seen this list before but what we don’t know is the conditions the ball were thrown in and what determines the velocity. All I know is it only matters on game day.
 

Example: You can take two baseball pitchers where one may throw 90mph on a radar but when the batter steps in they no longer throw 90 and may clock 84. Then you take someone who throws 86 and they will still clock 86 in the game. Before game day the most would take the 90mph pitcher all day. 
 

different sport I know but I find it hard to believe LJ clocks 49 and is drafted in the 1st round if this list was legit. 

 

This is measured at the Combine. 

 

28 minutes ago, Ennjay said:

And here I thought drafting Fromm meant the Davis Webb era is over.

 

The only question in my mind here -- seriously -- is whether they'll put Fromm on the roster or chance waiving him to the PS.  Webb is a non-factor and Barkley is on the last year of his contract, so Fromm was drafted to fill the luxury position of backup QB for the longer term, not 2020.  They like saving the roster space by carrying only 2 QB's and I think they'll carry two kickers with Bass handling KO's.  They also like DL's and WR's in numbers.  So there will be some tough decisions coming this year.

 

And I wouldn't be surprised if Fromm spent '20 on IR either.  Just sayin'.

 

If Fromm shows anything, I'd keep him and cut Barkley but tell him to keep in shape to be called up if Josh misses extended time. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

26 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

I'm just going to leave this here.

 

https://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-NFL-Combine-2008-2017/10243/dh/

 

Ball speed at the Combine. 

 

Mahomes 55 mph

Deshaun Watson 45 mph

Nathan Peterman 49 mph

Yup.  And you knew Peterman wasn't a threat to challenge deep.  

 

In the Houston game after Allen got hurt, the defensive backs were telling their safeties to hang back just in case while the DBs jumped the short routes.  Pick 6.

 

 

 

Josh Allen the official

combine GOAT at 62 mph! 

 

I mean - deep balls don't have anything to do with velocity though.  With proper timing and trajectory a weak armed QB can still complete deep throws. 

 

Petermans tendency to always go low in high/low reads was his biggest problem.  He also glued his eyes to a single target pre-snap based on a matchup he liked, and didn't stray from it.  

[djp14150]

I see this team keeping Barkley and state farm on the roster.  Barkley has experience in nflfor back up. Next year Barkley is a free agent so thry have stste farm after a yr of seasoning as a replacement 

 

then you get potential what happened in Washington with RG3 and  Cousins ( also a 5th round pick)

[njbuff]

Maybe it's me, but I don't see Fromm's arm as a problem.

 

That doesn't mean he will be an NFL QB, but I think his lack of arm strength is exaggerated.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

16 hours ago, stuvian said:

What's amusing is the 36 pages of people convincing themselves that Fromm is a backup 

 

 

...wait 'til home unis feature khaki pants........stay tuned...........

[FLFan]

22 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Maybe it's me, but I don't see Fromm's arm as a problem.

 

That doesn't mean he will be an NFL QB, but I think his lack of arm strength is exaggerated.

Very exaggerated.  

[Needle]

Fromm is a competitor and that is as important as talent to this regime. I think he indirectly pushes Josh without having a QB controversy. Josh being a competitor himself cannot have the backup out working him. 

 

 

 

 

[Victory Formation]

Fromm would immediately be the most talented QB on NE’s roster had they drafted him. Why they passed him up, I don’t know. I think he’s gonna be a decent QB. May need to sit a few years but he’s a smart guy with a decent arm. We’ll probably keep 3 QBs and Barkley will walk when his contract is up. Could see a situation where Fromm is dealt for picks later down the road but let’s be clear, he has no shot at beating out Allen. None.

[Wayne Arnold]

38 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Fromm would immediately be the most talented QB on NE’s roster had they drafted him. Why they passed him up, I don’t know. I think he’s gonna be a decent QB. May need to sit a few years but he’s a smart guy with a decent arm. We’ll probably keep 3 QBs and Barkley will walk when his contract is up. Could see a situation where Fromm is dealt for picks later down the road but let’s be clear, he has no shot at beating out Allen. None.

 

Is there any doubt that the *patriots are going to be getting Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Jacoby Brissett, or someone similar? And drafting Fromm or any other dime-a-dozen mid/late round QB wouldn't have changed that.

[Doc]

20 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Is there any doubt that the *patriots are going to be getting Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Jacoby Brissett, or someone similar? And drafting Fromm or any other dime-a-dozen mid/late round QB wouldn't have changed that.

 

Yes.

[YoloinOhio]

I love the Bills taking a shot on Jake Fromm in the fifth round. At that point in the draft, most guys don’t wind up lasting very long in the league anyway, and it seemed to me that most evaluators believed the floor for Fromm would be as a Colt McCoy– or Chase Daniel–level backup, which isn’t bad value in the fifth round. And there’s a pretty cool backstory here too. Bills GM Brandon Beane was actually in Athens doing a school call the week after Fromm lost a home start for the first time in his career, and in practice that day his value to the program was on display. On one side of the practice field, head coach Kirby Smart was running the defensive session, with an offensive scout team on hand. On the other, Fromm was running the practice for the offense against the scout defense. That the coaches had trusted Fromm to be the one leading practice in that critical juncture in the season, and that Fromm saw it as a place he needed to step forward, spoke volumes to Beane. Add that to what Beane heard that day (that Fromm would be in the building watching tape until late in the night regularly) and what he saw as the season went on (Fromm fighting through with a beaten-up, undermanned skill-position group), and Beane was super impressed with a guy he had no thought of drafting, with Josh Allen on the team’s roster. But as Saturday wore on, Fromm’s name continued to separate from the pack on the team’s board, to the point where it was screaming at the Bills’ brass in the fifth round. Based on his grade alone, had quarterback been a need, Buffalo would’ve considered Fromm with at least a couple picks before getting to the one the Bills actually took him with. As it is? As it is, the Bills walk away with a really good backup quarterback prospect that could have trade value down the line.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/04/27/bengals-dolphins-chargers-packers-draft-quarterbacks

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

It’s only half serious but FR...don’t give this guy #11. Everyone that wears that number for the Bills ends up being terrible. Just find a reason to tell him he can’t have it. I’m sure it’s not a “real” thing, but let’s not take the chance.

[Turbo44]

2 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Is there any doubt that the *patriots are going to be getting Andy Dalton, Cam Newton, Jacoby Brissett, or someone similar? And drafting Fromm or any other dime-a-dozen mid/late round QB wouldn't have changed that.

 I think they’re going with what they have. They have no salary cap space and seem to like whatever that guys name is

[Wayne Arnold]

1 minute ago, Turbo44 said:

 I think they’re going with what they have. They have no salary cap space and seem to like whatever that guys name is

 

I would be shocked. And so happy.

 

Which probably means there will be no 2020 season. 

 

Which obviously means Belichick is responsible for the Covid-19 outbreak.

[Gray Beard]

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2020/04/26-shirts-welcomes-jake-fromm-to-buffalo-bills-with-jake-from-buffalo-t-shirts.html
 

[TwistofFate]

17 hours ago, stuvian said:

of course Beane isn't going to start a QB controversy on his own team. There's 36 pages and counting of people rationalizing Fromm being back up when the argument could easily be made that he's already a more polished passer than Allen

He's definitely a more polished passer than Allen and i don't even think it's close. 

 

At this stage of the game Allen is the starter and its his position to lose. 

 

Based on Fromms history, if he gets a shot at the go ahead, you best believe he's going to make the best of it. 

 

Im just relieved we have a solid pick in the pipe line.  Im skeptical of Allen, that's no secret, but I feel much better knowing they got solid young talent right behind him. 

 

If Allen shows he's plateaued and this kid is looking good behind him, it will make the transition away from Allen that much easier. 

 

This kid is a great insurance policy, imo. 

[BigBillsFan]

11 hours ago, NJKBillsfan said:

Is Fromm a decent quarterback? 

 

I just watched a bunch of games with him over the past 3 days. I'm not impressed at all. I wish I was.

 

His arm literally has no strength.

 

 

[nucci]

29 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

I just watched a bunch of games with him over the past 3 days. I'm not impressed at all. I wish I was.

 

His arm literally has no strength.

 

 

literally? 

[BillsFanNC]

1 minute ago, nucci said:

literally? 

?

 

Its literally a noodle. They place the ball in his hand since he cant pick it up and it just falls to the ground.

[Wayne Arnold]

1 hour ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

I just watched a bunch of games with him over the past 3 days. I'm not impressed at all. I wish I was.

 

His arm literally has no strength.

 

He's Nate Peterson with a personality.

[Bangarang]

15 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

He's Nate Peterson with a personality.

And a way hotter mom

[BillsFanNC]

18 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

He's Nate Peterson with a personality.

This Peterson guy must have really been something!

[TwistofFate]

21 hours ago, Iverwig said:

I have seen this list before but what we don’t know is the conditions the ball were thrown in and what determines the velocity. All I know is it only matters on game day.
 

Example: You can take two baseball pitchers where one may throw 90mph on a radar but when the batter steps in they no longer throw 90 and may clock 84. Then you take someone who throws 86 and they will still clock 86 in the game. Before game day the most would take the 90mph pitcher all day. 
 

different sport I know but I find it hard to believe LJ clocks 49 and is drafted in the 1st round if this list was legit. 

They throw willingly and knowingly.   

 

Its for velocity only.   They are tracked by both radar and in many instances, chip inside the ball as well. 

 

These numbers are accurate. 

 

Just because a qb can throw all out at 55 mph doesn't mean hes going to do it all the time. 

 

Different situations require different needs of velocity. 

 

Hardly ever is a Qb throwing max power. 

[Iverwig]

7 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

They throw willingly and knowingly.   

 

Its for velocity only.   They are tracked by both radar and in many instances, chip inside the ball as well. 

 

These numbers are accurate. 

 

Just because a qb can throw all out at 55 mph doesn't mean hes going to do it all the time. 

 

Different situations require different needs of velocity. 

 

Hardly ever is a Qb throwing max power. 

I understand that and that was the point I was trying to make with the analogy. Regardless, I have seen Fromm throw multiple times in a game and he is no where near some of the other QB’s on that list come game day. I could be wrong but he appeared to be over thinking things which would affect his passing. 

2 hours ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

I just watched a bunch of games with him over the past 3 days. I'm not impressed at all. I wish I was.

 

His arm literally has no strength.

 

 

This is what I encourage most of the posters here do. Anyone thinking Fromm is someone who is going to come in and unseat Allen or think he’s a long term NFL starter must not be looking at the same game tape. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

You can improve your arm strength a lot easier than you can improve Field vision, situational awareness, film study and timing. 
 

Fromm is a gamer and his whole life is football. Fromm definitely has some work to do but I could easily see him being the best QB from this draft in a few years.

[Ennjay]

Living here in the Garden State I got to see a lot of Chad Pennington, who was actually a first round draft choice (Ok, by the Jets, but still ...).  He had very limited athletic ability, an unimpressive arm, and maybe college stats inflated by playing with Randy Moss -- a big advantage in comparing him to Fromm.  But Pennington really knew how to play the game of football and the position of quarterback and he made his team win because he was so good from the neck up.  I keep thinking -- hoping? -- that's Fromm's story.

[acrum21]

UGA fan here. I've been scanning NFL boards to read what everyone think about our guys. Figured Fromm would be a controversial one but damm, 39 pages..

 

Obviously he's a real cerebral guy, 35 on the Wonderlic. I'm not sure what your O-line looks like but if y'all give him time to operate he'll be effective. His biggest knock is not being able to go off script. He can't consistently make plays on the fly, just not that type of athlete. Arm strength actually isn't that huge of a concern. I'm a big college guy and I'll say arm strength is equal to Deshaun Watson. He'll make pre-snap reads better than anyone not named Joe Burrow and probably throws the best back shoulder throw in the draft. He excels throwing outside the hashes and NOT to the middle of the field, that's why he has low INT #'s. Won't have a problem getting to 2nd and 3rd reads in a pro offense. My comp was Kurt Warner for him.

 

The general consensus was he needed to go somewhere, preferably fair weather/indoor stadium, and commit to being a backup with the outside chance he'll land in the right system and could win some games with the right pieces around him. He'll pick up your playbook, fast. Both OC's during his tenure made comments on his ability there. There was an account from a high school all-star event where he actually corrected his OC on a route concept and the OC was wow'ed at Fromm's prep and that's essentially been his career at UGA. Won't be a distraction, good leader, team first dude that says all the right things and is always prepared. Just not an elite athlete.