HappyDays Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Joe Marino talked about this a bit on today's Locked on Bills podcast. The Patriots lost three front 7 starters in Van Noy, Collins, and Shelton. They have questions on offensive line and the offensive talent. They arguably have the worst QB depth chart in the league. And help isn't coming in free agency. They owe Brady $13.5 million in dead cap and they only have $2.1 million in available cap space. Are we looking at a bottom 5 roster? Bottom 10 at best? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Stop it. I can only get so erect 7 34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 No. Their defensive backfield is still elite and if they can keep their guys healthy their offensive line is good. Bottom 10, yea I could get myself there. At the moment they have the worst Quarterback room in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thronethinker Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Yes we are. They may start strong and reports will say how great they are, but they will fade fast. They will not even be a playoff team with the 7 spots next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Joe Marino talked about this a bit on today's Locked on Bills podcast. The Patriots lost three front 7 starters in Van Noy, Collins, and Shelton. They have questions on offensive line and the offensive talent. They arguably have the worst QB depth chart in the league. And help isn't coming in free agency. They owe Brady $13.5 million in dead cap and they only have $2.1 million in available cap space. Are we looking at a bottom 5 roster? Bottom 10 at best? Maybe bottom 5, for sure bottom 10 roster wise. But, BB is worth more than players. My guess would be 8-8 to 10-6 for Pats**. Depends who they get at QB will improve their talent and win total. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 They have a top 10 defense and a top 5 special teams unit. Their O-line was banged up a lot last season, when healthy (and they retained their All-Pro guard) they are one of the top 5 or 10 O-lines in the league, they have a stable of quality RB's and a good receiving option in Eddleman. They also have Mo Sanu and their 1st round pick from 2019 as reclamation projects at WR. They are also one of the best coached teams in the league and they have 4 selections in the top 100 in the draft. I wouldn't write them off from being a competitive team. A good defense alone can win you 5 or 6 games. Their QB situation is ass but they might have a better system in place to foster good play out of a ***** QB. Overall I think the Pats* aren't dead until I see the steak through their heart. Secretly I hope they win 5 games so that they are bad but not Trevor Lawrence bad. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Manther said: Maybe bottom 5, for sure bottom 10 roster wise. But, BB is worth more than players. My guess would be 8-8 to 10-6 for Pats**. Depends who they get at QB will improve their talent and win total. Yea put Dalton on that team and with Belichick they are still at worst a .500 team. If Brian Hoyer starts they are a 6 win football team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BfloBillsFan Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 All part of the Patriot way to get Trevor Lawerence 3 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFT Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Bottom 10, definitely. But a top 3 coach should be able to compensate for some of that. .500 team would be a big accomplishment barring anything unforeseen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 I will NEVER underestimate a Bill Belichick coached team. Ever. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Been waiting 20 years for this - the Bills are good. But more importantly, the Patriots are bad. They still have BB. That is really all they have. They are one of the oldest teams in the league, with an unproven QB and very little talent. They remind me of the Jauron-era Bills. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 25, 2020 Author Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: At the moment they have the worst Quarterback room in the NFL. This is a big factor in my ranking. Like do you take the Patriots roster right now, or the Bengals roster with Joe Burrow? When I try to come up with definitively worse rosters I think of the Jaguars, Redskins, Bengals, Raiders, Lions. Maybe the Jets and Dolphins? And I'm not 100% certain on any of those. Add Burrow and Chase Young to the Bengals and Redskins, it's possibly a different conversation. Obviously Belichick is elite and can still turn them into a decent team. But until they have a legitimate starting QB their ceiling is what the Steelers did last year - and the Steelers have a much better offensive cast and better defense as it stands today. Without a QB it is legitimate to rank them in the bottom 5. Edited March 25, 2020 by HappyDays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: This is a big factor in my ranking. Like do you take the Patriots roster right now, or the Bengals roster with Joe Burrow? When I try to come up with definitively worse rosters I think of the Jaguars, Redskins, Bengals, Raiders, Lions. Maybe the Jets and Dolphind? And I'm not 100% certain on any of those. Add Burrow and Chase Young to the Bengals and Redskins, it's possibly a different conversation. Obviously Belichick is elite and can still turn them into a decent team. But until they have a legitimate starting QB their ceiling is what the Steelers did last year - and the Steelers have a much better offensive cast and better defense as it stands today. Without a QB it is legitimate to rank them in the bottom 5. I still think even without a QB bottom 5 is a little low. I'd take their roster over all those teams you mentioned and the Giants as well. Yes you can say Cincy with Burrow and Washington with Young but like I say.... give New England Andy Dalton and I think that lifts them right back into the middle of the pack conversation. If they go into the season with Hoyer and Stidham and the Bengals and Dolphins have Burrow and Tua maybe it is different. I don't see the Pats not adding at QB though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 25, 2020 Author Share Posted March 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't see the Pats not adding at QB though. I don't think they can afford one. They can cut a few more players but starting at $2.1 million doesn't leave room for a lot of flexibility. Dalton and Newton will get paid a lot more than that. Who else is there? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2catch Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 I’m unsure. I haven’t looked them over too much, but they are still a dangerous run team. If they run well and control the clock I think they’ll stay relevant. Obviously quarterback matters how dangerous they can be but even if they ran Hoyer out there I’d still be a little worried. Michel and White are not slouches. Edelman despite the dislike is ALWAYS open in the short range. And BB always seems to scheme a pass rush from nobodies. Add in the secondary is still top notch and they can stay in a lot of games. I would prefer a 4-12 season from them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 They won't even sniff .500. This isn't 2008 where they return a team almost intact from the one that went 18-1 the year before and they're now missing Dante Scarnecchia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 18 minutes ago, BfloBillsFan said: All part of the Patriot way to get Trevor Lawerence My greatest (football) fear. I wonder if Billy’s ego will let them really suck, while Brady maybe makes the playoffs in Tampa? Bill is getting up there in years. Can he run a long term plan? Drafting is NOT Belichick’s forte. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: No. Their defensive backfield is still elite and if they can keep their guys healthy their offensive line is good. Bottom 10, yea I could get myself there. At the moment they have the worst Quarterback room in the NFL. I bet we see a lot more of the ‘Gilmore Glance’ this season. Stephon looks up at the Jumbotron trying to figure out whose fault it was that his man blew by him. Edited March 25, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 12 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I don't think they can afford one. They can cut a few more players but starting at $2.1 million doesn't leave room for a lot of flexibility. Dalton and Newton will get paid a lot more than that. Who else is there? I think they can manipulate the cap. Trade for Dalton. At the moment there isn't a penny of guranteed money on his deal but there is a $17m base salary. You don't think he'd be willing to bring that way down (potentially into a single figure cap hit) for the Pats to guarantee him $20m over the next 2 years and pay him a chunk of that now up front in a signing bonus? That is the way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Add Cam Newton to that team with BB and my guess is Vegas would still have them as favorites to win the AFC East. None of us will be confident of a win over BB until the clock hits 00:00(even then many will be waiting for the defensive penalty to extend the game). It took a third QB with a broken hand for the Patriots to lose to McD. And even then it was close. We all know it is mental. The Bills have had enough talent to win more games than they have, but no matter the players, coaches, or front office this team and this city can't get over the mental hurdle of beating BB. When they do it will feel like 1980 opening day game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Gostkowski is gone too. He may have slipped last year but between AV and Gost they’ve had kicking stability since 1996. Between that and stability displaced from Brady and our old friend, they are at an unstable time even with a relatively strong defense. I never count out BB and he usually has a plan, so we’ll see if they have slept back. God we all hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Add Cam Newton to that team with BB and my guess is Vegas would still have them as favorites to win the AFC East. None of us will be confident of a win over BB until the clock hits 00:00(even then many will be waiting for the defensive penalty to extend the game). It took a third QB with a broken hand for the Patriots to lose to McD. And even then it was close. We all know it is mental. The Bills have had enough talent to win more games than they have, but no matter the players, coaches, or front office this team and this city can't get over the mental hurdle of beating BB. When they do it will feel like 1980 opening day game. That wasn't McD. It was Rex. And it wasn't close it was 16-0 and they couldn't move the ball at all with an injured 3rd string QB. McD is yet to beat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: No. Their defensive backfield is still elite and if they can keep their guys healthy their offensive line is good. Bottom 10, yea I could get myself there. At the moment they have the worst Quarterback room in the NFL. Press conferences with BB should be interesting this year......he got away with a lot from the press because the patriots were winning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
below Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Losing Collins the first time didn't affect them. Their D got BETTER after losing Trey Flowers last year. To say nothing of Seymour, Milloy, Gronk, Welker, Chandler Jones...UGH. So depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: No. Their defensive backfield is still elite and if they can keep their guys healthy their offensive line is good. Bottom 10, yea I could get myself there. At the moment they have the worst Quarterback room in the NFL. worst qb room in the league really caps how high you can get. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaronthebaron Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 I think they do. We’ve kind of belabored the point in threads, but there really is going to be a distinct advantage to teams having low turnover going into this season, we have three starters changing in offense and defense ( 4 if you count nickel, and two of those are familiar to McDermott). The Pats can’t say the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 The Pats probably have an avg. to slightly below avg roster, with a totally unproven QB, and a superb HC. If there goal isn't to tank this year, which I haven't totally ruled out, I could still see them winning 9-10 games and competing for AFC East division winner. I think people are overlooking Bill B's ability to develop QB's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Estro said: The Pats probably have an avg. to slightly below avg roster, with a totally unproven QB, and a superb HC. If there goal isn't to tank this year, which I haven't totally ruled out, I could still see them winning 9-10 games and competing for AFC East division winner. I think people are overlooking Bill B's ability to develop QB's. Only 2 Cheaters' QB's have done much of note: Brady and Jimmy G. The rest are a handful of backup QB's and a majority of guys he failed to develop. Edited March 25, 2020 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 2 hours ago, HappyDays said: This is a big factor in my ranking. Like do you take the Patriots roster right now, or the Bengals roster with Joe Burrow? When I try to come up with definitively worse rosters I think of the Jaguars, Redskins, Bengals, Raiders, Lions. Maybe the Jets and Dolphins? And I'm not 100% certain on any of those. Add Burrow and Chase Young to the Bengals and Redskins, it's possibly a different conversation. Dolphins no they proved it last year when game was important to New England. And they still have best Director of Spying in the league. Probably best in all sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flmike Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 BB has won with 3 different QBs now. Who thought Jimmy G was going to do so well? They will find a way to push the rules to their breaking point with a different attack. I wish I had a dollar for every time the Pats OL gets a holding call. I'd have a whopping $10, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Absolutely not. They are a middle of the pack team, in my opinion. I could see them in the 7-9 to 9-7 crowd of teams. Their defense should still be good. It's usually good even when people used to think it would suck, because Belichick is a defensive coach and coaches and schemes them up. Their offense will probably be bad. But the Bills have had a bad offense the past few years and still managed to make the playoffs twice because of our defense. Expect the Patriots to completely switch to their power running game this season. Most defenses are not designed to defend that as the passing game is so prominent in today's NFL. It will be old school football for them. 10 minutes ago, flmike said: BB has won with 3 different QBs now. Who thought Jimmy G was going to do so well? They will find a way to push the rules to their breaking point with a different attack. I wish I had a dollar for every time the Pats OL gets a holding call. I'd have a whopping $10, I think. Jimmy G barely played for the Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nester Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 They are tanking for Trevor of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Success said: Been waiting 20 years for this - the Bills are good. But more importantly, the Patriots are bad. They still have BB. That is really all they have. They are one of the oldest teams in the league, with an unproven QB and very little talent. They remind me of the Jauron-era Bills. Except for the Jauron part! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVilanch Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Their coach and their D make up for the inadequacy on O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mc1320 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Would love to see Stidham matched up against McDermott’s defense twice next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 5 hours ago, GunnerBill said: That wasn't McD. It was Rex. And it wasn't close it was 16-0 and they couldn't move the ball at all with an injured 3rd string QB. McD is yet to beat them. Oh my you are correct. It was Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimebillsfan Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 I doubt that the Pats will be as bad as everyone expects. With BB on the sidelines, he will get the most out of whatever players they put on the field. If the Pats win the AFC East again, what does that say about Brady? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 I always chuckle at the Pats trauma we all take in. People are like “it’s a bottom 5 roster but they’ll definitely win 10+ games playing the toughest schedule in football.” Lol They lost 2 key LBs, their weapons are awful, OL average and have the worst QB situation in the league. This Pats team is not going to be good unless something drastic changes between now and the start of the season (ie healthy Cam goes there and is the Cam of 5 years ago). This team is like a 6 win team. And please, please, please, don’t give me, “but they always....” nonsense. Those teams were different from this team!! Even the Cassel team had a lot of talent. He had Welker and Moss, a strong OL, along with stars all over the defense. This team is NOTHING like that team. If you want to argue that I’m wrong do it based on THIS roster not what they’ve done in the past. Richard Seymour and Randy Moss aren’t going to be out there making plays this year. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 9 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: I will NEVER underestimate a Bill Belichick coached team. Ever. Same. I wonder what the odds for the division look like or if odds even exist until life begins again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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