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HappyDays

Do the Patriots have a bottom 5 roster?

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8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s fair on the OL but how much of the OL came from Brady? His pre-snap reads and quick throws certainly aided them. They may be okay but it isn’t going to matter if Stidham/Hoyer is back there. That’s especially true with their schedule.

 

Oh for sure. I agree it is the worst QB situation in the league as it stands and unless Stidham is the next great uncovered gem 6 wins would be their ceiling. I don't think they need a great QB to be at or above .500 though. I think Dalton could win 8 or 9 games for them.

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3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

If you compare that Pittsburgh team to this Pats team though that Pittsburgh team is probably better. They are better on the OL (imo), better skill players (even though they are overrated), better front 7 and an easier schedule. They won 8 games. As currently constructed this Pats team is a 6 win team (and that’s BECAUSE of BB). 

 

Certainly better at tight end. Better at receiver? Maybe. JuJu is the best guy across the two teams but I would argue the next three best receiver across the two rosters are all on the Patriots - Edelman, Sanu and Harry. And the Pats are better at running back. Michel, White and Burkhead over Conner, Samuels and Snell for me. I don't even have that one as close.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, MJS said:

Absolutely not. They are a middle of the pack team, in my opinion. I could see them in the 7-9 to 9-7 crowd of teams. Their defense should still be good. It's usually good even when people used to think it would suck, because Belichick is a defensive coach and coaches and schemes them up.

 

Their offense will probably be bad. But the Bills have had a bad offense the past few years and still managed to make the playoffs twice because of our defense.

 

Expect the Patriots to completely switch to their power running game this season. Most defenses are not designed to defend that as the passing game is so prominent in today's NFL. It will be old school football for them.

Jimmy G barely played for the Patriots.

 

This is something not much considered when rating all-time great RBs.  It was harder for backs to get yards (ypc) in Jim Brown's and still in OJ's day because defenses were designed to stop the run. 

 

It's different now.  Defenses are built to stop the pass first.   LBs used to be big and tough - think Dick Butkus.  Now they're quick and agile.  A team team w/o a good QB would be well served by a power running game.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats go that route.  

 

I certainly don't expect a losing record from any Belichick coached team.  

Edited by hondo in seattle

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Bottom 10, easy.  Possibly bottom 5.

 

Problem is Belichick. Dude doesn't have enough sense or courtesy to suck, even when common sense says he should. Even with a bottom-5 roster, I wouldn't put it past him to whip the Pats to 8 wins. Maybe more. 

 

 

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They look like what they are. An aging team that has lost their GOAT Qb! For now. They still have great coaching and a solid organization. Defensively they will be tough not dominant! Offensively they will be painful to watch unless they can find a decent Qb and add a couple of weapons! 

I will be tuning in as much as possible!!!

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It feels like the Patriots are trying to bottom out that or they really are so cap strapped that limited in what they can do. I expect them to be competitive because BB is a master at develops D schemes to take advantage of the talents he does has/confuse the opposition yet it wouldn't shock me to see the Patriots with a losing record this coming season. 

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and not to be understated... offensive line coach Dante Scarnecchia will retire after 36 seasons in the NFL. (still consulting at the combine).

 

This guy turned dudes off the street into probowl linemen.

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Do folks really believe that the Patriots' QB situation isn't going to improve by Week 1 of the regular season?

 

 

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17 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't think they can afford one. They can cut a few more players but starting at $2.1 million doesn't leave room for a lot of flexibility. Dalton and Newton will get paid a lot more than that. Who else is there?

 

No one other than Flacco.  I looked thru NEs roster to see how much they can "restructure" to get Dalton/Newton/Winston and there is not

a lot left for them to do.  They already have restructured 5 top contracts and got a lot of other high $ players on their last year of contract.

Could BB do it?  Yes, but it would have to cut into the meat and I think he goes into the year with what he has plus a rookie QB.

 

48 minutes ago, wiskibreth said:

and not to be understated... offensive line coach Dante Scarnecchia will retire after 36 seasons in the NFL. (still consulting at the combine).

 

This guy turned dudes off the street into probowl linemen.

 

Yep, Scar is gone along with vacancies at DC, DL and WR coaches!

BB is arguably the GOAT but he has a lot of work to do this year and he ain't getting any younger.

 

The OL is great (when TB is playing and Scar working his magic) but they have no depth so they better all stay healthy and they better

hope that the QB (who really knows yet) will know how to use them correctly.

NE has 2 TEs on roster Matt LaCrosse and 7th rounder Ryan Izzo.  I see a high round rookie drafted but he won't be playing with Brady.

WR is meh.  If they can piece together an O with their new QB (NEW QB IN NE) maybe Edelman (at 34 years old) can come close to duplicating

his past performances BUT if they struggle I'm hoping to see his frustration level go thru the roof.

 

The D will still play good but they always had Brady to get them out of any trouble so if the O is impotent how long will they perform?

They have taken some decent hits this year player wise.

 

Special Teams are always a hit and miss with most teams but that is another BB strong point.  How much time will he get to spend with

them with all the other challenges he has?

 

Tom Brady is not the QB of NE and people got to realize that he has been the catalyst of playoffs and championships.  Simply not having

him in the locker room is going to change the whole teams outlook.

 

Wait for the Pats* fans reactions at home games when they are not the team they use to be.

Rome wasn't built in a day and it didn't fall in a day but the NE BB/TB Empire is over.

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1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

Do folks really believe that the Patriots' QB situation isn't going to improve by Week 1 of the regular season?

 

 

 

What do you think BB is going to do?

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12 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s fair on the OL but how much of the OL came from Brady? His pre-snap reads and quick throws certainly aided them. They may be okay but it isn’t going to matter if Stidham/Hoyer is back there. That’s especially true with their schedule.

New England  +100

Bills +180

Miami +650

Jets +750


These are the most recent that I have seen but there is some variance. 

I’ll get flamed for saying it but I like those odds for Miami....

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8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I’ll get flamed for saying it but I like those odds for Miami....

Me too...I took the Bills at +800 last year. I didn’t necessarily think that the Bills would win the division but at 8:1 I thought that the value was there. I don’t like Miami to win the division. I like Miami at 6 and 1/2 to 1 though.

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Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

Me too...I took the Bills at +800 last year. I didn’t necessarily think that the Bills would win the division but at 8:1 I thought that the value was there. I don’t like Miami to win the division. I like Miami at 6 and 1/2 to 1 though.

I knew Bills W/L at 6 1/2 was a lock on the over last season..... of course I never put the bet down. 

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, CommonCents said:

Same. I wonder what the odds for the division look like or if odds even exist until life begins again.

The Pats remain a SLIGHT favorite. -110, which is still a pretty big favorite when you consider they're competing against 3 teams. Of course the Jets don't look great at the moment and the Dolphins are the Dolphins. While -110, meaning bet 110 to win 100 is by far the lowest the Pats have been in YEARS, they're still favorites in Vegas.

 

Bills are not surprisingly the second favorite at around +175(bet 100 to win 175)

 

Either way, they still have the Pats favored and I get it. Does not mean the Bills won't win the division! Just means as long as BB is around, Vegas will not discount the Pats.

12 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s fair on the OL but how much of the OL came from Brady? His pre-snap reads and quick throws certainly aided them. They may be okay but it isn’t going to matter if Stidham/Hoyer is back there. That’s especially true with their schedule.

New England  +100

Bills +180

Miami +650

Jets +750


These are the most recent that I have seen but there is some variance. 

Better than my convoluted answer. Slightly different odds than I've seen, but pretty close.

 

And I would hate to see this happen, but the Jets at plus 750 is pretty good "value" whatever that means. If somehow Darnold stops seeing ghosts, you never know. Week to week and year to year league.

Edited by LSHMEAB

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21 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I knew Bills W/L at 6 1/2 was a lock on the over last season..... of course I never put the bet down. 

I did!! My biggest bet of the year

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22 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I knew Bills W/L at 6 1/2 was a lock on the over last season..... of course I never put the bet down. 

Seemed too easy. 

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On 3/24/2020 at 8:36 PM, GunnerBill said:

No.

 

Their defensive backfield is still elite and if they can keep their guys healthy their offensive line is good. 

 

Bottom 10, yea I could get myself there. At the moment they have the worst Quarterback room in the NFL. 

So you hijack a thread to hedge 2.5 spots? Way to hang it out there, GB.

16 hours ago, BigBillsFan said:

You guys all underestimate the 13th man (refs) and the 14th man (the league).

 

They have stolen data about teams, they get away with holding constantly, mugging by their CBs, and pick plays and push-offs with their WRs and TEs.

 

They are the only team that's made me want to quit watching football because of the sham. How they can video tape another team and not be ban the owners, coach and Tommy Hero is beyond me.

 

00A80EF1-F175-44CC-9C99-0064C3B4B222.jpeg

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s fair on the OL but how much of the OL came from Brady? His pre-snap reads and quick throws certainly aided them. They may be okay but it isn’t going to matter if Stidham/Hoyer is back there. That’s especially true with their schedule.

 

That O-line in 2018 was excellent in run blocking. They are a good solid well coached unit. Even in 2019 when they were extremely banged up they still graded out better than average. I agree Brady does call the right protections but I think overall they are a good unit esp when healthy. Their biggest weaknesses are the receiving options (esp if Sanu is shot and they can't get Harry going) and their QB. But the rest of the team is good to solid. 

Edited by billsfan89

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Belichick is too good of a coach for the talent on the roster to make that much of a difference. Unfortunately I still expect them to win 10 to 13 games and take the division crown, God I hope I’m wrong

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4 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

That O-line in 2018 was excellent in run blocking. They are a good solid well coached unit. Even in 2019 when they were extremely banged up they still graded out better than average. I agree Brady does call the right protections but I think overall they are a good unit esp when healthy. Their biggest weaknesses are the receiving options (esp if Sanu is shot and they can't get Harry going) and their QB. But the rest of the team is good to solid. 

Scarnecchia retired so the OL coaching will change. He was a fantastic coach.

 

I wouldn’t call their front 7 good either. They’re average at best IMO.

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9 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Scarnecchia retired so the OL coaching will change. He was a fantastic coach.

 

I wouldn’t call their front 7 good either. They’re average at best IMO.

 

Agree on the front 7. Some big losses there. Shelton, Collins and Van Noy this year, Malcolm Brown and Tre Flowers last year. That is serious talent walking out of the door. 

 

Hightower can still play but is just turned 30 and increasingly nicked up and alongside him at linebacker there is not much left.

 

Up front I think Beau Allen is exactly the sort of low profile FA that Belichick excels with and he had a sneaky good couple of years with Tampa but beyond that they have added nothing. They have some "potential" at edge - Winovich and Calhoun were both guys I liked as mid round players coming out and Derek Rivers is still there if they can ever get him healthy.... but that feels a bit like a wing and a prayer without major additions. 

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18 hours ago, Dave Allen said:

Bottom 10, easy.  Possibly bottom 5.

 

Problem is Belichick. Dude doesn't have enough sense or courtesy to suck, even when common sense says he should. Even with a bottom-5 roster, I wouldn't put it past him to whip the Pats to 8 wins. Maybe more. 

 

 


If McDermott can get 6 wins out of the Bills 2018 team then Belichick can get 8+ out of his current motley crew. 

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