Clowney considering options including a "prove it" short term deal

[stinky finger]

6 hours ago, Virgil said:

The more time passes, the more signing him makes sense to me.  
 

If he really will take a 15 mil deal plus incentives, I see it as a win win for us with our current window.   
 

We have the money and if he can’t put the numbers up in this defense and in this division, he has no one to blame but himself. 
 

I see it as mutually beneficial  

 

"Virgil! Come on down! You're the next contestant on - The Price is Right!!" 

[Jerboski]

2 year deal, what's the harm

[stinky finger]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

They won the super bowl.  He played very well in the playoffs.  They won the super bowl.  Everyone has their opinion on the matter, the the fact is, the chiefs didn’t overpay for sammy.  They paid him for one reason.  To help them win a super bowl.  He did just that.  
 

It doesn’t matter that Kelce, hill and williams were bigger factors in winning a super bowl.  If the bills win the super bowl, there’s a good chance that some of our current defensive players would have a bigger impact than Clowney.  As long as he plays his 1/11 like McD asks.

 

 

 

I'm gonna hate asking this - because of who we're talking about - but are you suggesting the Chiefs don't win the SB w/o Sammy? And yes, he played very well in playoffs. 

 

While I'm not in the "must have" Clowney camp, I believe his impact would be greater to the Bills D than Sammy was for the Chiefs. No, no, no Sammy apologists, I'm not knocking him. Just an opinion.

5 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

There are several teams that fall into this category.

 

My question for the Bills is................

 

Does signing Clowney and cutting Murphy outweigh the option of just keeping Murphy and go with what you got? Interesting indeed.

 

It's all about the impact a player brings. That's what the mindset ought to be, imo. 

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, inaugural balls said:

 

I'm gonna hate asking this - because of who we're talking about - but are you suggesting the Chiefs don't win the SB w/o Sammy? And yes, he played very well in playoffs. 

 

While I'm not in the "must have" Clowney camp, I believe his impact would be greater to the Bills D than Sammy was for the Chiefs. No, no, no Sammy apologists, I'm not knocking him. Just an opinion.

 

It's all about the impact a player brings. That's what the mindset ought to be, imo. 

Are you suggesting that there’s actually a way to know this or find this out?  I don’t play pretend or what if.  They had sammy. They won the super bowl.  There is no “would they have won with out him?”  It doesn’t exist.  

[stinky finger]

32 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Are you suggesting that there’s actually a way to know this or find this out?  I don’t play pretend or what if.  They had sammy. They won the super bowl.  There is no “would they have won with out him?”  It doesn’t exist.  

 

I hear you. Poor approach on my part.

 

I was working the impact angle.

[Punching Bag]

10 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

If you have enough cap space you dont.   But paying someone a one year deal definitely impacts your team the year after.   If the Bills pay someone 17 million for one year and get jack in output then they dont recoup the money, they lose what would be roll over cap for the next season.

 

Anytime you over pay agents wet their lips and say my client (my pocketbook commission) needs to be overpaid.

 

You bend over to agents then you end up treating you are easy and you get what happened before - a player who had no obligation (Jason Peters) had extension negotiated and then agent recommended he hold out for more and same agent held Bills hostage.  Others agents saw that and acted accordingly.   

[BarleyNY]

On 4/6/2020 at 12:08 PM, NewEra said:

 
 

If the browns sign Clowney, sure. Not sure why we wouldn’t just sign Clowney ourselves, instead of signing the guy that the browns wanted to replace with Clowney. 
 

I never understood the Vernon love tbh, but he’d be a nice rotational guy.  I think Jerry and Addison are better pass rushers, but I’m all for spending any additional money on pass rush or OL upgrades

Vernon is a beast when healthy.  But he just hasn’t been healthy enough.  He’s a guy who would be important to do a medical check on.  Of course, Clowney’s is another player where a medical evaluation is important.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

On 4/7/2020 at 10:39 AM, Virgil said:

The more time passes, the more signing him makes sense to me.  
 

If he really will take a 15 mil deal plus incentives, I see it as a win win for us with our current window.   
 

We have the money and if he can’t put the numbers up in this defense and in this division, he has no one to blame but himself. 
 

I see it as mutually beneficial  

With our secondary and DT’s I could see Clowney having at least a 10 sack season. With the way our defense is built right now I am projecting our DE’s to have huge years in the sack department. 

[YoloinOhio]

The Seahawks already gave his # to someone else so not sure how interested they are still 

[BillsNutHawaii]

Serious question, what position would he play for Buffalo? The team is already at least 9 deep on the defensive line or is OLB a consideration ? 

Additionally, last I read the team has just below $21 million remaining on their salary cap (that was before the draft).  Unless my information isn’t accurate, or he takes a salary below $10 mil, I’m not seeing how he gets paid for. Any addition insight here ?

Edited May 1, 2020 by BillsNutHawaii
Key Word left out

[Orlando Tim]

I would Clowney on a 2 year 30million contract but he I am pretty sure does not want to give a big discount to move when he can just return to Seattle where he seemed happy.

[MiltonWaddams]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

The Seahawks already gave his # to someone else so not sure how interested they are still 

Could be a negotiation tactic. “ We don’t need you, but we’d love to have you if you come to your senses”.

2 minutes ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

Serious question, what position would he play for Buffalo? The team is already at least 9 deep on the defensive line or is OLB a consideration ? 

Additionally, last I read the team has just below $21 million remaining on their salary (that was before the draft).  Unless my information isn’t accurate, or he takes a salary below $10 mil, I’m not seeing how he gets paid for. Any addition insight here ?

DE. Murphy cut. Addison, Hughes, Epenesa, Jefferson, Clowney and maybe Johnson (youth on his side plus ST play) at DE would be more than nice.

[MrEpsYtown]

Honestly I’d cut Murphy, sign Taco Charlton, use the cap saving to sign Eric Reid. I think he would be the difference maker in the secondary that really unlocks the defense’s potential. 

[Einstein's Dog]

39 minutes ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

Serious question, what position would he play for Buffalo? The team is already at least 9 deep on the defensive line or is OLB a consideration ? 

Additionally, last I read the team has just below $21 million remaining on their salary cap (that was before the draft).  Unless my information isn’t accurate, or he takes a salary below $10 mil, I’m not seeing how he gets paid for. Any addition insight here ?

Clowney would be a DE.  Theoretically the Bills would cut Murphy to make the room.

 

Seems highly unlikely at this point however.  The Bills already have a large percentage of cost invested in the DL and just put draft capital into the position. 

 

But for me, the idea of adding an elite player like Clowney to this D is just so appealing.  I know his stats weren't there, but from what I saw he passes the eye test with flying colors.  He would add a dimension of speeding up the time clock for apposing QBs that is so valuable.  He just fits what our defense could use.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

One year deal for Clowney would put the front 7 over the top and not hurt the team long term.

Make it happen and make a deep playoff run.

Interesting that Beane or McD spoke about Epenesa moving down to DT in passing situations. That will allow them to carry one less DT and an additional DE on the roster.

[MrSarcasm]

17 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

One year deal for Clowney would put the front 7 over the top and not hurt the team long term.

Make it happen and make a deep playoff run.

Interesting that Beane or McD spoke about Epenesa moving down to DT in passing situations. That will allow them to carry one less DT and an additional DE on the roster.

I wouldn't touch Clowney. Signing him to a one year deal feels very Brownsish. He will have another Seahawk type year of 3 Sacks.

[TwistofFate]

Signing Clowney doesnt fit what we are doing here. 

 

It doesn't make sense for "now and the future."

 

We have enough talent on the D line. 

[Bob in STL]

On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2020 at 10:01 AM, ndirish1978 said:

I don't get this big perception that he is a worldbeater. Shaq had more sacks than he did last year. Why is the perception that this guy is worth double?

 

Because fans heard of him and his name is Jadeveon Clowney. 

[NewEra]

52 minutes ago, MrSarcasm said:

I wouldn't touch Clowney. Signing him to a one year deal feels very Brownsish. He will have another Seahawk type year of 3 Sacks.

Almost every deal we sign is basically a 1-2 year deal 

Just now, Bob in STL said:

 

Because fans heard of him and his name is Jadeveon Clowney. 

Because some fans think accumulating stats is what makes players good.  They think that if a players doesn’t have good stats, they aren’t any good. 

[Brennan Huff]

My sources tell me that he will sign with Seattle 

[MrSarcasm]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Almost every deal we sign is basically a 1-2 year deal 

Because some fans think accumulating stats is what makes players good.  They think that if a players doesn’t have good stats, they aren’t any good. 

Yep but we don't pay overrated players 18 mil. Matter of fact we do the exact opposite, pay undervalued guys half that.

[purple haze]

On 3/18/2020 at 7:55 AM, BigBillsFan said:

Just think, all he needs is some sacks to get paid.

It's not the sacks in and of themselves.  It's the health and missing so much time.  Can't get sacks on rehab.

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, MrSarcasm said:

Yep but we don't pay overrated players 18 mil. Matter of fact we do the exact opposite, pay undervalued guys half that.

For one year, it’s worth it to cut Trent Murphy and sign Clowney.  He’d be in the perfect spot to hit it big next year playing with this secondary and scheme.  
 

We’re in position to upgrade the most important facet of football.  The price is cutting Murphy and a few mill.  Meanwhile, not only are we getting Clowney, but if he played well and cashed in, it raises our status as a free agent destination.  
 

it’s a no brainer to me, but I understand why some wouldn’t want to add him.  

I only care about winning a SB and the door is open for us to walk right through. The league will be different in 2020.  Capitalize on this situation.  I hope we use the remaining cap room to help us achieve that goal and not just roll it over. 

 

[dorquemada]

1 hour ago, Brennan Huff said:

My sources tell me that he will sign with Seattle 

 

Hey Mr Huff thank you for taking time out of your high level business meeting to let us know!

 

 

[Brennan Huff]

30 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

Hey Mr Huff thank you for taking time out of your high level business meeting to let us know!

 

 

You are very welcome. Although I don’t have any meetings today.

[billsfan89]

On 4/7/2020 at 9:32 AM, thenorthremembers said:

If you have enough cap space you dont.   But paying someone a one year deal definitely impacts your team the year after.   If the Bills pay someone 17 million for one year and get jack in output then they dont recoup the money, they lose what would be roll over cap for the next season.

 

On the Watkins point you're surmising Watkins' output in the playoffs and superbowl was a prime factor in them being champions?   I'd argue, even with his big AFC Championship performance, Kelce, Hill and Damien Williams were bigger factors in the Chiefs being champions.

 

If paying Clowney gets the Bills over the top for a championship I am all for it.   But I look at his history and he hasn't been able to do that for any other team he has played for and those teams had better quarterbacks to start with.

 

I think the idea would be to cut Murphy to both free up the D-line spot and ease the cap hit. Cutting Murphy saves about 8 million on the cap so if you cut Murphy and sign Clowney to a one year 13 million dollar deal you only lose 5 million in roll over. 

 

I would be all for giving Clowney a somewhat low ball one year offer, 12 million with 1.5 million in incentives. That's about a 13.5 million hit total but after you cut Murphy you are only looking at about a 5.5 million dollar difference. I think rolling the dice on losing 5.5 million in roll over money is worth the potentially massive upgrade you would get between Murphy and Clowney. I think Clowney's stat total last year was a bit misleading, he was a very disruptive player and having him on a one year deal might be the motivation he needs. 

 

I think going to far beyond the 13 million dollar range is stupid as yes you can't have a guy that isn't a sure fire talent eating away more than 4 or 5 million in roll over. 

[Alphadawg7]

There is just no way Bills are signing Clowney.  This prove it deal thing was out there before they signed 2 DE's and drafted one.

 

People can wish for it all they want, but the chances of this happening are almost nil.  It would have happened already as Beane doesn't fool around if he wants to bring someone here, but Beane clearly has moved on, if he even ever had any interest in the first place.

 

I think its pretty safe to say that everyone is most likely wasting their time here.  

Edited May 1, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Does anyone find it amazing clowney needs to consider a ‘prove it’ deal

[Just Joshin']

7 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Honestly I’d cut Murphy, sign Taco Charlton, use the cap saving to sign Eric Reid. I think he would be the difference maker in the secondary that really unlocks the defense’s potential. 

I am missing the Taco love, well the Taco Charlton love.  

[Logic]

I think the only way the Bills were MAYBE going to add a significant veteran edge rusher was if they had missed out on drafting a good one altogether.

The moment AJ Epenesa was drafted, any dreams of Clowney went out the window. Hughes, Addison, and Epenesa will be the top three. Murphy MAY, in fact, be cut, but I believe the only way that happens is if Darryl Johnson Jr takes his job.

[MrEpsYtown]

4 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said:

I am missing the Taco love, well the Taco Charlton love.  

To me it’s projection into a scheme. A very highly recruited big time prospect who put up big numbers in college and really hasn’t found a home in the NFL. It just didn’t click for him in Dallas and in Miami he was playing OLB in a somewhat complicated scheme. But he projects perfectly as the type of end McDermott covets and he has upside as a pass rusher that we don’t have much of on this roster. I guess he is built a bit like Daryl Johnson with more pedigree. To me it’s a very low risk, possibly big time reward play on a guy who is still only 25 and had five sacks in a part time role last year playing in just 10 games. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[GreggTX]

On 3/18/2020 at 10:01 AM, ndirish1978 said:

I don't get this big perception that he is a worldbeater. Shaq had more sacks than he did last year. Why is the perception that this guy is worth double?

 

Because you can't measure the value of a DL by sacks alone.

[MiltonWaddams]

57 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Kind of odd to refuse Cleveland. Bookends of Clowney and Garrett would be downright terrifying. 

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

That is a lot of words used to say, "Cleveland has offered the most money and, for reasons unknown, Clowney has not accepted the offer."

[thenorthremembers]

2 minutes ago, MiltonWaddams said:

Kind of odd to refuse Cleveland. Bookends of Clowney and Garrett would be downright terrifying. 

Not odd at all.  They've won 19 games in 5 years and are starting over with a brand new head coach.   He said before "I'm not looking to get on no sorry team for money."  Even with all the talent they have the Browns havent found a way to win consistently.  

[MiltonWaddams]

Just now, thenorthremembers said:

Not odd at all.  They've won 19 games in 5 years and are starting over with a brand new head coach.   He said before "I'm not looking to get on no sorry team for money."  Even with all the talent they have the Browns havent found a way to win consistently.  

Fair assessment. It also may depend upon the term of the offer. If Cleveland is offering $16million for one year, it may be worthwhile for him to take the risk. If they are exclusively offering multi-year, he maybe uninterested in the length of term in being stuck on a franchise with such a history of calamity. There aren’t any indications of what the offer on the table is.

[Just Joshin']

The Clowney saga shows the difference between how GMs and fans view him.  If he was low risk, high quality he would be signed to an expensive contract.  GMS do not see the risk of injury/production vs. cost.

[Clutchwarfare]

Not interested in "hold out" players. Houston traded him for a reason.