Was Trading a 3rd For Kelvin Benjamin in 2017 a Good or Bad Move?

[whatdrought]

33 minutes ago, BuffaloFan32 said:

 

Anquan Boldin, Derrick Brooks and Warrick Dunn were real bums.  How many other schools have produced at least three Walter Payton Man of the Year awards?

 

Fair point. I guess I was thinking about the Jalen Ramsey, KB, Crab Legs era. My bad for generalizing!

[Hebert19]

I said good.  Why?  Even though he was generally worthless he was a huge reason we won the indy game.  No indy game no playoffs. 

[djp14150]

Beanie mistakes...

 

trading for benjamin wasn’t one of them.  He was familiarto him from carolina

 

i would have made the trade with Houston instead of KC.

 

then Buffalo has pick 4 from Houston.

then still trade up to 12 then pick both players and still have 4 picks in 2nd and 3rd rounds instead of 1.

[BillsFanSD]

If you never make a bad trade, you're not trading enough.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, r00tabaga said:

He kinda helped us win the Indy snow game......which was a huge win that.....well...ended a 17 yr drought.....

 

I didn’t vote but I’d say that was Beanes biggest whiff.

BB gets B+‘s & A’s on pretty much all other moves.

 

Corey Coleman.  Still ?.

 

I can keep going but why - overall I'm in agreement that the Beaner is doing OK

[Lurker]

Was Creating This Thread in 2019 a Good or Bad Idea?...

[LSHMEAB]

It was obviously a bad move. Beane gets paid the big bucks to make good decisions, so the fact that it "seemed" like a good trade at the time is irrelevant. He's made plenty of good decisions and the overall trajectory is better than it's been in a long time, but you gotta call a spade a spade.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

I think it’s possible for it to be a bad move, and still have been the right move at the time.

 

Same as the decision to bench Tyrod for Petterpick. 

 

Some things demand hindsight.

 

 

Those two decisions couldn't have been more different.

 

The Bills had nothing at WR and Benjamin had been a recent 1,000+ yard star receiver and first round pick.

 

Benjamin just didn't hold up his end of the bargain or he might still be here.

 

Peterman was a nobody with very little talent.   He hadn't even played well in preseason.   And he was a rookie.?

 

Peterman COULDN'T hold up his end of the bargain.  

 

McDermott ended up having to go in front of his team to apologize for the magnitude of the stupidity of the decision.    It was a total panic brain-lock miscalculation with predictably instant disastrous results.    

 

[dubs]

Good try. Bad outcome. Not a big loss regardless. 

[Rocky Landing]

This seems like a thread started as a rhetorical question.

[Warren Zevon]

1 hour ago, Binghamton Beast said:

What bizzare timing for a bizarre thread.

 

The fanbase must agree on at least one negative thing about the current regime to hold a grudge against in the future!

Edited December 31, 2019 by Gary Busey

[Don Otreply]

Well in hind sight it wasn’t good, but really, who would have thought KB would be the mega sloth of NFL receivers? I mean that level of worthless is pretty damn hard to achieve...

 But we are past that now, no need to rehash that and other questionable personnel decisions that were over before our last draft, gotta let it go.

 

Go Bills!!!

[billsfan89]

It was the right position to target at the deadline in 2017. The team was 5-2 and looking to end a drought. They had 2 third round picks and once again they desperately needed a WR who could command attention and bringing a big body to target was a plus. It obviously didn't work and I was shocked that McBeane knowing KB from Carolina didn't know to stay away from him due to his attitude and poor work ethic. I would qualify it as the right move in philosophy (getting some help to try and break the drought) but it was poor in execution that means it is a mistake. 

 

I think the Dareus trade was a bigger mistake as I think it basically exposed the run defense the rest of the season (as bad as Dareus played relative to his contract he was still a good run stuffer, he did improve the Jags run defense that season.) I think they should have cut or traded Dareus in the off-season but hey it all worked out the drought was broken. 

Edited December 31, 2019 by billsfan89

[Phil The Thrill]

28 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

It was the right position to target at the deadline in 2017. The team was 5-2 and looking to end a drought. They had 2 third round picks and once again they desperately needed a WR who could command attention and bringing a big body to target was a plus. It obviously didn't work and I was shocked that McBeane knowing KB from Carolina didn't know to stay away from him due to his attitude and poor work ethic. I would qualify it as the right move in philosophy (getting some help to try and break the drought) but it was poor in execution that means it is a mistake. 

 

I think the Dareus trade was a bigger mistake as I think it basically exposed the run defense the rest of the season (as bad as Dareus played relative to his contract he was still a good run stuffer, he did improve the Jags run defense that season.) I think they should have cut or traded Dareus in the off-season but hey it all worked out the drought was broken. 

Do you mean cut or traded in 2017 or 2018?

59 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Corey Coleman.  Still ?.

 

I can keep going but why - overall I'm in agreement that the Beaner is doing OK

Didn’t they trade a 7th round pick for Coleman?  Obviously it didn’t work out, but I don’t think trading a 7th rounder for a former 1st round pick with potential is a bad move.  Low rush, high reward

[CoudyBills]

3 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

It was a bad move, but a good risk. I'd rather have a GM that will swing and miss sometimes rather than one too afraid to make a move because they might lose out on the draft pick.

Here's looking at you Botts.  Oh, wrong Buffalo.  My bad

[NewEra]

It was good at the time.  
 

 

in hindsight, it was terrible because KB turned into sloth from goonies, only slower and fatter

[Mojo44]

My take is “you can’t win them all”. But you have to win most of them to be good. And, so far, that seems to be the case. For me it’s a Mulligan

[ArtVandalay]

1/3 of voters think it was a good move.

 

There's a chunk of guys here that want Dabol gone too.

 

Do you guys enjoy losing? Think you you forgot what winning football looks like with the drought.

[MJS]

Hindsight it was bad. At the time it was clear they were trying to inject some life into a completely talent starved room and seemed to be a decent move, but there were red flags everywhere.

 

Swing and a miss. It happens.

[Albany,n.y.]

The trade was a wash for both teams.  With the pick Carolina took  Rashaan Gaulden. He lasted a little over a season & a half & was waived.  He's now with the Giants.  Whose to say the Bills would have done better, but one of the best drafting teams over the years, the Baltimore Ravens, had the pick right after Carolina.  One of the reasons the Ravens are the top seed in the AFC this year is because with the pick after Carolina in the 3rd round they took their leading receiver this year, TE Mark Andrews, who led all TEs with 10 TD catches.  

[MJS]

6 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

1/3 of voters think it was a good move.

 

There's a chunk of guys here that want Dabol gone too.

 

Do you guys enjoy losing? Think you you forgot what winning football looks like with the drought.

Not sure the two are connected in any way. Daboll hasn't produced good offenses for the Bills. Maybe there's a coordinator out there who can.

[dayman]

Panthers fans I know were pretty vocal about him being a fat ass that sucked at the time so they already knew what we found out ... but the rest of the league was not 100% knowledgeable about the sucking part yet.

4 minutes ago, MJS said:

Not sure the two are connected in any way. Daboll hasn't produced good offenses for the Bills. Maybe there's a coordinator out there who can.

 

Daboll has done a great job. The Bills offensive players suck he gets the most out of them. 

[whatdrought]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Those two decisions couldn't have been more different.

 

The Bills had nothing at WR and Benjamin had been a recent 1,000+ yard star receiver and first round pick.

 

Benjamin just didn't hold up his end of the bargain or he might still be here.

 

Peterman was a nobody with very little talent.   He hadn't even played well in preseason.   And he was a rookie.?

 

Peterman COULDN'T hold up his end of the bargain.  

 

McDermott ended up having to go in front of his team to apologize for the magnitude of the stupidity of the decision.    It was a total panic brain-lock miscalculation with predictably instant disastrous results.    

 

 

Disagree. Starting peterman was an effort to curb absolutely horrible QB play. Being a nobody isn’t jack *****. Some of the best QB’s in nfl history started as nobodies. Changing it up after the most conservative, 56yrd passing day of a blowout made perfect sense. Now, the in house scouting is a problem all of its own. But peterman is a practice god. 

[Da webster guy]

Depends on who we would have picked in the 3rd and 7th round, so we'll never know.

 

I DO know we dumped Sammy that year after he and Tyrod lit it up in the 2nd half of the previous year, and that left us lean at the WR position.  (Prior to that, Whaley felt $8m was too much to spend on Robert Woods, which was awfully shortsighted)

 

In our Jax playoff game, we isolated KB on 1st and goal at the 3 yard line, he does a ridiculously blatant push off on the defender,  the stupid penalty backs us up 10 yards and we end up settling for the field goal and eventually lose the game by 3. 

 

That was our first playoff game in 17 years and a winnable game that in my opinion came down to that mistake.

 

KB was a player who didn’t seem to buy into the team-first concept, never looked like he was giving maximum effort, and produced not like the No. 1 receiver he was purported to be, but like a backup, as he totaled just 39 catches for 571 yards and two touchdowns in 18 games.

 

FYI Ravens pro bowl TE Mark Andrews went one pick after Carolina whiffed with our 3rd rounder.

 

 

 

 

[Best Player Available]

Well, Benjamin was an all pro at the OBD breakfast buffet.

That has too count for something. 

[CardinalScotts]

worth a shot

[BADOLBILZ]

17 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Disagree. Starting peterman was an effort to curb absolutely horrible QB play. Being a nobody isn’t jack *****. Some of the best QB’s in nfl history started as nobodies. Changing it up after the most conservative, 56yrd passing day of a blowout made perfect sense. Now, the in house scouting is a problem all of its own. But peterman is a practice god. 

 

When is the last time you heard of a coach getting up in front of the team and apologizing for benching a player?

 

It was an all-time bad decision and resulted in the worst QB performance since the merger.

 

And it could have been worse.    On the one series that Peterman didn't throw an interception he recovered his own fumble on one play and the Chargers dropped a would-be pick six on 3rd down.

 

You can disagree and be wrong all you want.   Die on that hill if you must.   If it's so dumb that the coach has to admit it to the team the next day then that says it all.

 

[TwistofFate]

It was a good move at the time.  That's how I look at it.  

 

Who knew hed be a lazy sack of ***** who didn't care about proving doubters wrong?  

 

All your picks cant be gold. 

[Phil The Thrill]

3 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Well in hind sight it wasn’t good, but really, who would have thought KB would be the mega sloth of NFL receivers? I mean that level of worthless is pretty damn hard to achieve...

 But we are past that now, no need to rehash that and other questionable personnel decisions that were over before our last draft, gotta let it go.

 

Go Bills!!!

 

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Hindsight it was bad. At the time it was clear they were trying to inject some life into a completely talent starved room and seemed to be a decent move, but there were red flags everywhere.

 

Swing and a miss. It happens.

I disagree.  I didn’t see many red flags and the fan base was pretty excited after watching the sad group who lined up at WR that season.  
 

I think it was definitely worth a shot at the time.   It didn’t work out, but you can’t fault Beane for trying.  

[Albany,n.y.]

38 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

When is the last time you heard of a coach getting up in front of the team and apologizing for benching a player?

 

It was an all-time bad decision and resulted in the worst QB performance since the merger.

 

And it could have been worse.    On the one series that Peterman didn't throw an interception he recovered his own fumble on one play and the Chargers dropped a would-be pick six on 3rd down.

 

You can disagree and be wrong all you want.   Die on that hill if you must.   If it's so dumb that the coach has to admit it to the team the next day then that says it all.

 

I remember there was a lot of fan support on the switch to Peterman.  There was also a lot of fan support the following September when Peterman was named the opening day starter.  I had mixed feelings the 1st time, since Tyrod was on a pretty bad streak & most of us figured we had nothing to lose with a QB switch.  I did respond to one poster who wanted Peterman to be careful what you wish for because he could be a lot worse than Tyrod, but I was still optimistic at the time. 

 

Funny thing, I went to both the Chargers game in LA & the Ravens game in Baltimore.  Maybe it was me who messed up Peterman's mojo?  At the Chargers game Peterman was so bad I called up a fellow Bills fan friend at halftime and we were making jokes & laughing at how bad he was.   

Edited December 31, 2019 by Albany,n.y.

[whatdrought]

52 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

When is the last time you heard of a coach getting up in front of the team and apologizing for benching a player?

 

It was an all-time bad decision and resulted in the worst QB performance since the merger.

 

And it could have been worse.    On the one series that Peterman didn't throw an interception he recovered his own fumble on one play and the Chargers dropped a would-be pick six on 3rd down.

 

You can disagree and be wrong all you want.   Die on that hill if you must.   If it's so dumb that the coach has to admit it to the team the next day then that says it all.

 

 

this is stupid. You’re using an argument based entirely on hindsight to say that a decision was wrong in the moment. 

 

The resault of the decision does not indicate if it was a bad decision at the time, unless the results were clearly predictable. They weren’t. No matter what you say, there was no reasonable expectation that Petterman would have the worst performance in NFL history. 

Edited December 31, 2019 by whatdrought

[Phil The Thrill]

Just now, whatdrought said:

 

this is stupid. You’re using an argument based entirely on hindsight to say that a decision was wrong in the moment. 

This is very common with a lot of Bills fans (and many Buffalo-based media personalities) these dayS

[Orlando Tim]

15 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

It was a bad move, but a good risk. I'd rather have a GM that will swing and miss sometimes rather than one too afraid to make a move because they might lose out on the draft pick.

Good statement- each trade is a risk but the upside could have been huge and our draft pick was no sure thing.

[Captain Hindsight]

15 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I think it’s possible for it to be a bad move, and still have been the right move at the time.

 

Same as the decision to bench Tyrod for Petterpick. 

 

Some things demand hindsight.

You called?

[whorlnut]

Was it a good idea?  Of course it was. At the time we had a HUGE need for a number one receiver and Benjamin was available. The fact that he didn’t pan out is all hindsight. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

Was it that big of a whiff though.  He traded a 3rd for a player who would be the best WR on his team (yeah I know that’s a low bar).  I would say they KB’s return was probably worth a 5th.  It’s not terrible - plus when you have needs at the trade deadline you often overspend.  No issue with the trade at all

this is how I see it.

 

I'm So Happy for You that you have no issues with the trade, Phil.

 

But I'm curious by what metric you feel Benjamin was the best WR on the Bills? 

In 2017, Deonte Thompson had more YPG.  Jordan Matthews had a higher catch %.  Zay Jones and Clay had more targets.

In 2018, Bob Foster and Zay Jones had more YPG.  Every other WR who saw playing time had a higher catch %, including Zay Jones and Bob Foster.  Zay Jones had more targets.

 

Look, let's not polish a turd.  McDermott and Beane's roster decisions WRT WR blew chunks their first two years, and it goes far beyond drafting Zay Jones and trading a 3rd for Benjamin.  Other teams bring in late round draft picks who are more productive.

 

Brown, Beasley, and Knox (if he LOOKS THE BALL IN and stops butter-fingering the bunnies) look like good adds.  Come up with a good tall possession receiver and I'm all in.

 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

I can't believe so many people are trying to rationalize this trade and say it was good (at the time). 

 

This is a results based league. It doesn't matter if it was a good trade at the time it happened, you need to grade it based on the results. And the results undeniably show that Kelvin Benjamin was a god awful WR. 

 

 

 

 

[wagon127]

9 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

I can't believe so many people are trying to rationalize this trade and say it was good (at the time). 

 

This is a results based league. It doesn't matter if it was a good trade at the time it happened, you need to grade it based on the results. And the results undeniably show that Kelvin Benjamin was a god awful WR. 

 

 

 

 

In 2017, the results were worth a 3rd round pick. But he should have been cut after week 1 of 2018.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I was never a big fan of this signing. Every time I saw Benjamin and Croom on the field it made me sick.

[Rico]

Bad trade, but I had no problem with it at the time. Good thing is that it didn’t take too long for the Bills to cut their losses and move on.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Rico