DJB Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/buffalo-bills-rookie-dt-ed-oliver-is-heating-up Production is a poor way to measure the play of DTs, but the anticipation for Oliver to become an immediate star left room for disappointment. Truth is, rookies at this position do not typically light up the box score in their first eight professional games. Here are some notable NFL star defensive tackles and their production across their first eight games in the league: Aaron Donald: 20 tackles, one sack Fletcher Cox: 16 tackles, one sack Geno Atkins: Five tackles, 1/2 sack Gerald McCoy 14 tackles, zero sacks Ed Oliver 28 tackles, 5 sacks, 2 PDef , 1 FF (12 game totals) Edited December 2, 2019 by DJB 8 6 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da webster guy Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Fletcher had all 16 tackles and that one sack against us it seemed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Throw in JJ Watt who only had 5.5 sacks total as a rookie. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 8 vs 12 is quite a statistic difference. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 I don’t think anyone is worried about Oliver. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Spartacus Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Good thing our players are well grounded, and probably don't listen to most of the negative social media comments about them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: 8 vs 12 is quite a statistic difference. I caught that as well. Without going back and looking at Donald’s game stats for his rookie year, I’d say Oliver is on pace to equal his sack totals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 minute ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: I caught that as well. Without going back and looking at Donald’s game stats for his rookie year, I’d say Oliver is on pace to equal his sack totals. It’s possible. Donald had 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramza86 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Its not an easy position period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elroy16 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) The sacks are what gets the attention and players paid, but man, those run stops were gorgeous. Avoiding a reach block and stringing out Collins and then taking on a double team, holding his ground against an elite G, and making the tackle, just GD fun to watch. These happen so fast in the game, there's too much going on, so I really appreciate these breakdowns. I've watched the run stops about 15 times each. His strength for his size is something else. Let's not forget he played a ton of 1 tech in college and not as much 3t like he is now. The future is bright for this kid. Edited December 2, 2019 by elroy16 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thurst44 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: 8 vs 12 is quite a statistic difference. OK, let's look at 12 Aaron Donald: 30 tackles, 6 sacks, 1 ff Fletcher Cox: 25 tackles, 3 sacks, 1 ff Geno Atkins: 7 tackles, 1.5 sacks Gerald McCoy: 21 tackles, 3 sacks, 2 ff Ed Oliver: 28 tackles, 5 sacks, 1 ff So, yep, pretty much on schedule. 14 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Why are we taking 12 games for Oliver? Just to make his stats look better? 7 minutes ago, thurst44 said: OK, let's look at 12 Aaron Donald: 30 tackles, 6 sacks, 1 ff Fletcher Cox: 25 tackles, 3 sacks, 1 ff Geno Atkins: 7 tackles, 1.5 sacks Gerald McCoy: 21 tackles, 3 sacks, 2 ff Ed Oliver: 28 tackles, 5 sacks, 1 ff So, yep, pretty much on schedule. How about just the first 8 games? 20 tackles, 1 Sack. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 A shot on Jets today in MMQB that they should have taken Oliver, not Williams. 2 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thurst44 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, MJS said: Why are we taking 12 games for Oliver? Just to make his stats look better? How about just the first 8 games? 20 tackles, 1 Sack. Are... you... serious?!?! You can't be serious. On the off chance you are, the point of this whole article is that DTs tend to start slow and that he is on pace with many great DTs at this point in this career. What would be the point of going back in time and pretending he has NOT been a beast the last four games. We now have the 12 games to compare. Not to mention, his stats are similar to the others after 8 games. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Just now, thurst44 said: Are... you... serious?!?! You can't be serious. On the off chance you are, the point of this whole article is that DTs tend to start slow and that he is on pace with many great DTs at this point in this career. What would be the point of going back in time and pretending he has NOT been a beast the last four games. We now have the 12 games to compare. Not to mention, his stats are similar to the others after 8 games. I'm serious about representing data correctly. I have no problems with Oliver. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 But can he catch the ball over the middle like DK ?? 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thurst44 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Just now, MJS said: I'm serious about representing data correctly. I have no problems with Oliver. So, what is wrong with comparing 12 games to 12 games, which is what I did. Those are the stats, per Pro-Football Reference, for each player's first 12 games. It makes a bit more sense after he plays 12 games to update the others and compare it to 12 games than to revert Oliver's stats to 8 games. I just was trying to be helpful and do a little legwork on a quiet snowy campus day. I'm not the OP, btw, but I'm guessing what happened there was that the article he/she referenced was a month old. My point is that if you do the math, and extend all of these players to 12 games, the point still holds. I'm pretty sure that's seriously properly represented data. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, thurst44 said: OK, let's look at 12 Aaron Donald: 30 tackles, 6 sacks, 1 ff Fletcher Cox: 25 tackles, 3 sacks, 1 ff Geno Atkins: 7 tackles, 1.5 sacks Gerald McCoy: 21 tackles, 3 sacks, 2 ff Ed Oliver: 28 tackles, 5 sacks, 1 ff So, yep, pretty much on schedule. On schedule to be a Hall of Famer, based on that list. 15 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said: A shot on Jets today in MMQB that they should have taken Oliver, not Williams. Love it: (peter king on things he thinks he thinks) 6. I think the Jets will regret passing on Ed Oliver for Quinnen Williams in the top 10 of the 2019 NFL Draft. If they’re being honest, they already do. 9 minutes ago, HOUSE said: But can he catch the ball over the middle like DK ?? This is you and @Joe in Winslow, I know that... I’m just trying to figure out which one is the fat one.... Edited December 2, 2019 by whatdrought 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JESSEFEFFER Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 I think the Jets needed Kentucky Josh Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seoulofstone Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 28 minutes ago, thurst44 said: So, what is wrong with comparing 12 games to 12 games, which is what I did. Those are the stats, per Pro-Football Reference, for each player's first 12 games. It makes a bit more sense after he plays 12 games to update the others and compare it to 12 games than to revert Oliver's stats to 8 games. I just was trying to be helpful and do a little legwork on a quiet snowy campus day. I'm not the OP, btw, but I'm guessing what happened there was that the article he/she referenced was a month old. My point is that if you do the math, and extend all of these players to 12 games, the point still holds. I'm pretty sure that's seriously properly represented data. Exactly, its a misrepresentation of the article where Joe Marino compares Oliver's first 8 starts to those all-pro DT's. Comparing 8 to 12 isn't what Joe was doing in the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 We should’ve taken DK 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, NewEra said: We should’ve taken DK Its almost like you shouldn't make sweeping declarations about people's careers based on their first 6 games in the league. Wild stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 I’m more worried about flat earthers than I am about Oliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 I said it on draft night and still say it.... Ed Oliver dropping to #9 shows sometimes NFL personnel people are stupid. No problem at all with Arizona taking Murray at #1 - if you think a guy can be your franchise QB you pick him - but Bosa and Oliver were the best two players in the class and there was a gap to the third best. Everyone from the Jets on got it wrong in my opinion. The Lions took a ***** Tight End. I mean seriously. You can't fix stupid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, wppete said: I don’t think anyone is worried about Oliver. ' He was already called a bust on here by some. He's figuring it out now. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets to 10 sacks this season. OMG how awesome would that be? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, DJB said: https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/buffalo-bills-rookie-dt-ed-oliver-is-heating-up Production is a poor way to measure the play of DTs, but the anticipation for Oliver to become an immediate star left room for disappointment. Truth is, rookies at this position do not typically light up the box score in their first eight professional games. Here are some notable NFL star defensive tackles and their production across their first eight games in the league: Aaron Donald: 20 tackles, one sack Fletcher Cox: 16 tackles, one sack Geno Atkins: Five tackles, 1/2 sack Gerald McCoy 14 tackles, zero sacks Ed Oliver 28 tackles, 5 sacks, 2 PDef , 1 FF (12 game totals) did you just compare the stats of 4 players in 8 games with one players stats in 12 games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I said it on draft night and still say it.... Ed Oliver dropping to #9 shows sometimes NFL personnel people are stupid. No problem at all with Arizona taking Murray at #1 - if you think a guy can be your franchise QB you pick him - but Bosa and Oliver were the best two players in the class and there was a gap to the third best. Everyone from the Jets on got it wrong in my opinion. The Lions took a ***** Tight End. I mean seriously. You can't fix stupid. I wanted to suck bad enough last year for either Bosa or Oliver and I still can't believe we got Oliver at 9. I really thought we wouldn't have a chance in hell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambit Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I said it on draft night and still say it.... Ed Oliver dropping to #9 shows sometimes NFL personnel people are stupid. No problem at all with Arizona taking Murray at #1 - if you think a guy can be your franchise QB you pick him - but Bosa and Oliver were the best two players in the class and there was a gap to the third best. Everyone from the Jets on got it wrong in my opinion. The Lions took a ***** Tight End. I mean seriously. You can't fix stupid. I disagree. The Jaguars nailed their pick with Josh Allen. That kid is a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Just now, Gambit said: I disagree. The Jaguars nailed their pick with Josh Allen. That kid is a beast. So Josh Allen has been a good pick. For sure. But over their careers I am convinced they will still wish they had taken Oliver. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Foxx said: did you just compare the stats of 4 players in 8 games with one players stats in 12 games? Yeah but if you factor in their first 12, he's been better than the above. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambit Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Just now, GunnerBill said: So Josh Allen has been a good pick. For sure. But over their careers I am convinced they will still wish they had taken Oliver. Now that very well could happen. I absolutely loved the Oliver pick right from the start. My brother and I lost our ***** when he fell to us. I'm still shocked honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Yeah but if you factor in their first 12, he's been better than the above. right but you don't compare apples and oranges for comparison's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 The only thing that worried me about Oliver was his short arms. His power, burst, gap control, awareness and speed are all elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cage Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 hours ago, wppete said: I don’t think anyone is worried about Oliver. A bunch of people were 2 weeks ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: So Josh Allen has been a good pick. For sure. But over their careers I am convinced they will still wish they had taken Oliver. Interior pass rushers who can also play the run are much harder to come by than an edge guy IMO. Can always bring edge pressure with a blitz, up the middle from a DT position - yup, I will take it all day long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Jay_Fixit said: I’m more worried about flat earthers than I am about Oliver. You don’t have to worry about them, just herd them over the edge... tell them there’s a Dunkin’ Donuts over that way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Foxx said: did you just compare the stats of 4 players in 8 games with one players stats in 12 games? I was lazy and didnt write down his 8 week stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukestreetking Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: OMG how awesome would that be? Love the optimism...probably would be Def RoY awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syhuang Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 3 hours ago, DJB said: https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/buffalo-bills-rookie-dt-ed-oliver-is-heating-up Production is a poor way to measure the play of DTs, but the anticipation for Oliver to become an immediate star left room for disappointment. Truth is, rookies at this position do not typically light up the box score in their first eight professional games. Here are some notable NFL star defensive tackles and their production across their first eight games in the league: Aaron Donald: 20 tackles, one sack Fletcher Cox: 16 tackles, one sack Geno Atkins: Five tackles, 1/2 sack Gerald McCoy 14 tackles, zero sacks Ed Oliver 28 tackles, 5 sacks, 2 PDef , 1 FF (12 game totals) Well that's encouraging! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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