Bills at Browns Post Game Post Mortem

[Blank Stare]

It’s just maddening that we are in year 3 of this regime and we still don’t have an offense. Why? It’s ridiculous. I’d almost take AB at this point if it meant moving the ball and YAC. As good as John Brown has been, we hardly ever get any YAC out of him. We never have any pop plays. I feel Josh’s struggles with the deep ball are completely mental. Cross between coaching the aggression out of him

and over thinking it. 

[Plano]

time to move on from Allen unfortunately. He's not the answer.

[Conlan58]

1 minute ago, Virgil said:

We don’t learn from our losses.  The only adjustment we’ve made is making Allen timid with the ball

I think Allen is doing just fine minus the deep ball. He had a lot of 10-15 yard passes on the money today. Big drop by Knox early and another by Roberts later on. I like what I see with Allen. Room to improve? Absolutely, but I love the feeling i have when he has the ball and we need a drive.

[finn]

Some perspective: the Bills weren't supposed to be 7-2, not with the weaknesses talked about here. Mayfield had Beckham and Landry to throw to. Allen had who else besides Brown? Give him one or two more players and another year of development, and an real 7-2 record will be plausible. 

 

Can't help but carp, though: Daboll. What the heck. Eight carries for one of the best players on the offense--someone doing great in the game. It's like his ego is attached to passing yards. 

[Murdox]

I felt like this game was going to be a challenge when I saw Allen miss a couple of open guys due to sloppy footwork in the opening drive when he had plenty of time.  There were certainly other issues to the game (like the offense and clock management at the end of the game - blech), but Allen needs to get some consistency fast if this team is ever going to be something.  He just isn't there yet, and there is only so much his legs can do.  I'm fearing we whiffed on Lamar.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Murdox

[billsfan_34]

2 minutes ago, Virgil said:

We don’t learn from our losses.  The only adjustment we’ve made is making Allen timid with the ball

Allen fired some balls in there today but misses the long ball- still very raw

8 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Gap integrity, love each other, keep learning, and we are a young team. 

That is all McD will say and its all bull

For every 1 or 2 good plays Edmunds makes theres 4 or 5 where he is getting pushed aside, out of position, not shedding a block or getting run over. For the love of God put this man on the outside!

[london_bills]

12 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Most are saying it is both, but go ahead and run with that narrative.

I don't think most are saying its both actually. 

 

I think most posts are saying its Daboll, there's certainly a narrative for that which I am pointing out. 

 

I am not the most clued up nfl guy but the narrative regards Allen is more obvious in my opinion- we can see it with our eyes. Plays are left on the field. Theres 'bipolar' QB play from one minute to the next. 

 

Regards Daboll we can see the playcalls and will always critique them when they are not succesful. You could say Allen is an easier critique but never be proved wrong with that because we are not in meetings, don't know the game plan etc. So in regards the OC I think its harder to see, with the QB easier to see. 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by london_bills

[dubs]

Just now, whatdrought said:

 

You're entitled to your opinion. A lot of rational, non-emotion driven posters (i.e. those who typically live in reality) disagree with you. There are others who are yelling ***** allen as they plunge to their deaths over Niagara Falls. We're probably both plenty wrong- he probably wasn't as okay as I think he was, and he probably wasn't as bad as you think he was. It is what it is. 

Fair enough. 
 

I’m not saying he was Peterman bad. But at some point we have to start seeing more from Josh and he’s yet to show it. It’s getting to the point where it’s very concerning that perhaps he just doesn’t have it in him. All over the league we are seeing very young QB have great performances, yet Josh has yet to light it up. It’s not like he doesn’t have opportunities. The Bills are throwing a lot, they are giving Allen chances to hit deep throws. The defense has kept them in games. 

[Happy]

1 minute ago, TwistofFate said:

I don't want Cam either, but the thought crossed my mind. 

 

I don't want Cam either.  If Miami can't get Tua for some reason, I wonder if Cam ends up in Miami; not sure how Flores views Cam, though.

[Adam727]

This is going to be a long week.  I think this is the most disappointed I've been after a Bills loss in a long time.  Probably since the Bills lost to the steelers week 16 in the early 2000s.  Not sure if it's because I thought the game was over when Hughes looked like he scored or if it's because a win today probably put the Bills in the playoffs... but this one sucks.  

[thebug]

3 minutes ago, Plano said:

time to move on from Allen unfortunately. He's not the answer.

Stop smoking crack. 

[Murdox]

1 minute ago, dubs said:

Fair enough. 
 

I’m not saying he was Peterman bad. But at some point we have to start seeing more from Josh and he’s yet to show it. It’s getting to the point where it’s very concerning that perhaps he just doesn’t have it in him. All over the league we are seeing very young QB have great performances, yet Josh has yet to light it up. It’s not like he doesn’t have opportunities. The Bills are throwing a lot, they are giving Allen chances to hit deep throws. The defense has kept them in games. 

I have to agree.  The number of missed throws to open receivers when he is NOT under any direct pressure is troubling. That said, he does have a great arm - not many QBs could fit the ball in he got to Beasley on the 2nd TD drive.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Murdox

[Dopey]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Hauschka makes the kick and we just tie it, leaving McD/Daboll/Allen another opportunity to find a more creative way to lose.

If we were an actual good team that deserved our record the Browns never would have even been in this game. It was a 60 minute race to the bottom, and the browns finished shooting themselves in the foot before we ran out of bullets.

We don't deserve our record?! What a load of crap.

[ColoradoBills]

34 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said:

Lol. “Low percentage” pass? There was no one within 10 yards of McKenzie and it wasn’t like Allen had to heave it 80 yards downfield to get it to him. Bojo could have punted it up to McKenzie and got it closer. 
 

seriously hope you’re joking. Those passes are only “low percentage” for Allen. God his excuse makers never stop...Allen and his long ball yips cost them the same amount of points as Hauschka today. 

 

I got to admit that the line in bold is damn funny!  I may use that line later this week with the brothers!

 

I will say that I have not been too high on Allen or too low on Allen but it is getting to the point where he has to start to show more.

ESPECIALLY with the long ball. 

[Formerly Allan in MD]

The Bills don't appear to learn from losses, let alone some wins.  If they did, they'd have some consistency and flow by now and stop making the same errors over and over again.  Perhaps they'd also stop overusing the likes of Wallace and Smith.

[Elite Poster]

We have a coach that is actively trying to limit the offense. 

 

Can't believe this idiot blew 33 seconds, iced his own kicker, only to miss on a 53 yard kick. If you were playing for the tie, run the ***** ball and get a couple yards for your kicker. 

 

Classic case of NOT putting your players in a position to win. 

Edited November 10, 2019 by Elite Poster

[DuckyBoys]

Every week is a struggle with this team  Where was the run game today? 

[Maine-iac]

1 minute ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Roman looks good because one of the better HC's in the league in John Harbaugh sets the direction.  That is something Rex obviously couldn't do, McD isn't doing, so these OC's are left to their own devices.  A competent OC can overcome this since they understand their players and shape their scheme to their players.

 

Agree on this being the last OC McD hires.  Pegula and Beane should hire an offensive guru/consultant who will pick the OC.  McD will have to live with that.

Roman has always been good.  Has nothing to do with Harbaugh.  Hell Roman was great here.  We had a top ten offense every year Roman was here and scape goated him after we scored 31 in a losing effort and played terrible D.  Roman was great in SF, great here, and clearly great in Baltimore also. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Man, a lot of thoughts after this one. Horrendous play calling, Wallace getting picked on, should have challenged offensive PI on the 4th down play in the 1st half, should have kicked the 53 yarder FG in the first half, 8 carries for Singletary, etc... There isn’t a lot to walk out of this game feeling good about. We just need to do better

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Boca BIlls said:

This team isn't worthy of a playoff spot. Disgusting... Was going to go to the Miami game but not wasting the money now.

I am sure they are mourning you not being there.....

[whatdrought]

5 minutes ago, dubs said:

Fair enough. 
 

I’m not saying he was Peterman bad. But at some point we have to start seeing more from Josh and he’s yet to show it. It’s getting to the point where it’s very concerning that perhaps he just doesn’t have it in him. All over the league we are seeing very young QB have great performances, yet Josh has yet to light it up. It’s not like he doesn’t have opportunities. The Bills are throwing a lot, they are giving Allen chances to hit deep throws. The defense has kept them in games. 

 

They're throwing too much. They have no balance on offense allowing the Defense to play hard against the pass and blitz heavy. The offensive line cannot adjust to free rushers (whether that's on Allen or the line is another ?). The route combinations are not creating seperation, and the personal packages have left me completely stymied throughout the year. The formations seem to all but verbally tell the defense what's coming their way, and the times we do have rhythm and successful play pairings, we completely abandon what's working and go to something else. 

 

Allan is, I think, playing very well for a second year QB whose a known work in progress. The Team as a whole is confusing in many ways. 

Edited November 10, 2019 by whatdrought

[london_bills]

3 minutes ago, Murdox said:

I have to agree.  The number of missed throws to open receivers when he is NOT under any direct pressure is troubling. That said, he does have a great arm - not many QBs could fit the ball in he got to Beasley on the 2nd TD drive.

He's got it more physically then mentally basically 

Edited November 10, 2019 by london_bills

[WideNine]

1 minute ago, Gary Busey said:

 

Run defense stuffed them countless times inside the 5 - they were above average at least today

 

They did better although the stat line will not reflect it. I think Star may have been the victim of an illegal chop block early that sprung a long one. They were using leverage to the left  like they were setting up a stretch play and I thought he was engaged with a blocker when they sent a pulling player low that took out his legs and created the hole for a long gainer.

 

Edmunds had some early mistakes, but also turned in some really good run-stopping plays. I want him to mature faster, but if I am honest and not just pissed, Edmunds is coming along. I think he eventually will become quite a stud for this defense. Like everyone else here - I want it to happen faster.

 

Still think that he would have been insanely good off the edge as a pass rusher or dropping back into coverage, but that ship has likely sailed and he will get there at MLB.

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, mattynh said:

8 carries for singletary

NBA Load management 

[Do The Reich Thing]

This is the way all NFL coaches are. Nothing will change and McD will try and sneak into the playoffs. He’s too damn stubborn and stuck in his ways. The team follows his lead and thus nothing will change. 

[John from Riverside]

10 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

and he just got out coached by the worst HC in the league. 
 

fact if the OC isn’t good enough I don’t want ultra conservative McClappy and his Process picking another one. Just like I want him no where near picking another QB if Allen isn’t it 

I think I have run my course with Debol.....he doesnt adjust to what Allen is doing well TODAY......which is his short and intermediate game

[ticketssince61]

A few thoughts watching from a great distance to counter some of the hyper over-reactions after every win (we are super bowl bound) and loss (fire everyone, trade everyone and do a complete rebuild)

 

1. Daboll does not put JA in a position to succeed. Most coaches fail because they are too stupid or try to be too smart - Daboll is the latter.

    He does not do enough play action, roll-outs to create more oportunities for JA and definitely either a) abandons the running the game or b) features 

    Gore over Devin

 

2. Defense needs to find a way to stop the run and create some turnovers - the past few weeks, we come up with almost no turnovers to help the offense

 

3.  What really hurts our offense is lack of big-play capability. What is our longest TD this year? JA can not hit the long ball or the receivers can  not find it; Gore has no explosiveness; Singletary is a very good runner but not a game- breaker. If you watch KC - they have a lot of TD's on short passes where the receiver breaks a tackle and outruns everyone to the end zone. We need more speed on offense.

 

4. JA is not a bust and being benched for Barkley  (a career journeyman) and is not currently a franchise QB. He is a QB from a small-time program that has a big learning curve. He does some things well and some things poorly. The jury is still out - not the time yet to over-reach and anoint him either of the two. Give him one more year with some decent weapons - then we can make an intelligent assessment

 

5. McD is a good coach - not a great coach - relax, he is not being fired - he has brought order and stability and a decent record to this franchise. Give him some more time and then we will see. 

 

6 GM is not getting fired - in general has done a decent job of managing the cap and drafting (past year's draft is still a TBD) - and creating order in the front office. My biggest criticism is his propensity to trade up

 

All this being said, this was a terrible loss in a must win game and blame falls on offense, defense, coaches, coordinators and special teams

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Bitter bitter bitter loss. I felt up to the end that somehow someway we would pull this one out given how awesome our D played to keep them off the board inside the 5 TD line, but it was for naught. I hope losing this one doesn’t end up costing us late in the season! 

[MAJBobby]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

I think I have run my course with Debol.....he doesnt adjust to what Allen is doing well TODAY......which is his short and intermediate game

Ok then. If Daboll has run his course McD should be right behind 

[BananaB]

Too conservative. They played for OT once they hit FG range with loads of time on the clock. 
 

I don’t think our games this year are gonna get any prettier . Josh is inconsistent at times and WRs are dropping balls other times. Hate watching other games and seeing WRs make tough catches but our guys can’t, just irritates me. 

Someone got to be accountable for only handing the ball to Singletary 8 times. We ain’t a passing team and this is the ***** that hurts us the most.

 

[DuckyBoys]

2 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

They did better although the stat line will not reflect it. I think Star may have been the victim of an illegal chop block early that sprung a long one. They were using leverage to the left  like they were setting up a stretch play and I thought he was engaged with a blocker when they sent a pulling player low that took out his legs and created the hole for a long gainer.

 

Edmunds had some early mistakes, but also turned in some really good run-stopping plays. I want him to mature faster, but if I am honest and not just pissed, Edmunds is coming along. I think he eventually will become quite a stud for this defense. Like everyone else here - I want it to happen faster.

 

Still think that he would have been insanely good off the edge as a pass rusher or dropping back into coverage, but that ship has likely sailed and he will get there at MLB.

run defense gave up a 150 so long way to go 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

Ok then. If Daboll has run his course McD should be right behind 

That wont happen.....because the D is good every year with him....and we are winning.

 

I really miss Greg Roman

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Star receives too much criticism.  In fact, I even saw him move today - offside.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

11 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

On the bright side for those of you complaining about Allen... He probably would've had his 300 yard game if Hausch hits that FG

 

Or if they even TRIED to get the TD in regulation. He would have had 301.

[Rock'em Sock'em]

Very nice games by Allen and White today. 

I love what they are doing to try to grow their QB into a passer while also trying to win.

 

To improve:

Start hitting the deep passes when they are open.

They need more juice in the running game.

2020 - Would be nice to have another shutdown corner opposite #27.

 

NY times playoff machine chances dropping from about 70% to about 50% after today.  Steelers, Broncos, Jets, Dolphins are all playing their best ball right now.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

1 minute ago, Jaraxxus said:

So, should everyone be fired and the Bills start over again?

 

yes

[Happy]

2 minutes ago, Maine-iac said:

Roman has always been good.  Has nothing to do with Harbaugh.  Hell Roman was great here.  We had a top ten offense every year Roman was here and scape goated him after we scored 31 in a losing effort and played terrible D.  Roman was great in SF, great here, and clearly great in Baltimore also. 

 

I disagree.  Everyone HATED Roman when he was here.  The offense couldn't score points.  It wasn't until Roman was fired and Anthony Lynn became OC and called the plays did the offense become top 10 in scoring.

 

Baltimore's success is due to John Harbaugh; been that way for years.  It is no mistake they recently won a SB and could go again this year.

[DuckyBoys]

2 minutes ago, ticketssince61 said:

A few thoughts watching from a great distance to counter some of the hyper over-reactions after every win (we are super bowl bound) and loss (fire everyone, trade everyone and do a complete rebuild)

 

1. Daboll does not put JA in a position to succeed. Most coaches fail because they are too stupid or try to be too smart - Daboll is the latter.

    He does not do enough play action, roll-outs to create more oportunities for JA and definitely either a) abandons the running the game or b) features 

    Gore over Devin

 

2. Defense needs to find a way to stop the run and create some turnovers - the past few weeks, we come up with almost no turnovers to help the offense

 

3.  What really hurts our offense is lack of big-play capability. What is our longest TD this year? JA can not hit the long ball or the receivers can  not find it; Gore has no explosiveness; Singletary is a very good runner but not a game- breaker. If you watch KC - they have a lot of TD's on short passes where the receiver breaks a tackle and outruns everyone to the end zone. We need more speed on offense.

 

4. JA is not a bust and being benched for Barkley  (a career journeyman) and is not currently a franchise QB. He is a QB from a small-time program that has a big learning curve. He does some things well and some things poorly. The jury is still out - not the time yet to over-reach and anoint him either of the two. Give him one more year with some decent weapons - then we can make an intelligent assessment

 

5. McD is a good coach - not a great coach - relax, he is not being fired - he has brought order and stability and a decent record to this franchise. Give him some more time and then we will see. 

 

6 GM is not getting fired - in general has done a decent job of managing the cap and drafting (past year's draft is still a TBD) - and creating order in the front office. My biggest criticism is his propensity to trade up

 

All this being said, this was a terrible loss in a must win game and blame falls on offense, defense, coaches, coordinators and special teams

Stop making rational observations, were trying to have a meltdown here

[Maine-iac]

1 minute ago, ticketssince61 said:

A few thoughts watching from a great distance to counter some of the hyper over-reactions after every win (we are super bowl bound) and loss (fire everyone, trade everyone and do a complete rebuild)

 

1. Daboll does not put JA in a position to succeed. Most coaches fail because they are too stupid or try to be too smart - Daboll is the latter.

    He does not do enough play action, roll-outs to create more oportunities for JA and definitely either a) abandons the running the game or b) features 

    Gore over Devin

 

2. Defense needs to find a way to stop the run and create some turnovers - the past few weeks, we come up with almost no turnovers to help the offense

 

3.  What really hurts our offense is lack of big-play capability. What is our longest TD this year? JA can not hit the long ball or the receivers can  not find it; Gore has no explosiveness; Singletary is a very good runner but not a game- breaker. If you watch KC - they have a lot of TD's on short passes where the receiver breaks a tackle and outruns everyone to the end zone. We need more speed on offense.

 

4. JA is not a bust and being benched for Barkley  (a career journeyman) and is not currently a franchise QB. He is a QB from a small-time program that has a big learning curve. He does some things well and some things poorly. The jury is still out - not the time yet to over-reach and anoint him either of the two. Give him one more year with some decent weapons - then we can make an intelligent assessment

 

5. McD is a good coach - not a great coach - relax, he is not being fired - he has brought order and stability and a decent record to this franchise. Give him some more time and then we will see. 

 

6 GM is not getting fired - in general has done a decent job of managing the cap and drafting (past year's draft is still a TBD) - and creating order in the front office. My biggest criticism is his propensity to trade up

 

All this being said, this was a terrible loss in a must win game and blame falls on offense, defense, coaches, coordinators and special teams

If we could just see 4th quarter Allen all 4 quarters we'd be onto something.  He seems to make a number of clutch plays late in games.  He did it this week also but the other 3 quarters there's huge sequences where the offense can't do anything.

[RichRiderBills]

2 minutes ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Star receives too much criticism.  In fact, I even saw him move today - offside.

He got buried on several early runs...then jumped Offside. He played like *****.