Refs this year...opinion?

[RU5781]

Is it just me, or has it been worse than ever before? I’m not even counting the fact that they pretty much refuse to overturn any PI calls/non-calls. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by RU5781
Grammar

[Happy]

They've been great.  Just ask the Pats and Packers.

[Nuncha]

Has to be the worst ever.  Seeing it makes me wonder when (not if) a bad call will cost us a game.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Azucho98

[H2o]

[mushypeaches]

It's just getting to be over the top.  You're trained now to almost expect a flag on every incomplete pass.  I think I was watching a game on Sunday where there were calls on 6 consecutive plays.  Even dunderheads like Troy Aikman notice that stuff.

 

And it's everything.  I get that they're trying to make the game safer, but I miss the days of when they'd just let guys play.  So much that guys have to watch for (especially on defense) that it doesn't seem like a natural football game any more, just some highly regulated, manufactured, football-like substance

[quinnearlysghost88]

Every player, coach and administer are held accountable for how they perform their jobs while the refs, who can completely affect the outcome of a game, are allowed to do whatever they please. It’s ruining the game. Also, them collectively deciding they’re not overturning PI challenges is the best indicator that they’re running the show. 

[RU5781]

1 minute ago, mushypeaches said:

It's just getting to be over the top.  You're trained now to almost expect a flag on every incomplete pass.  I think I was watching a game on Sunday where there were calls on 6 consecutive plays.  Even dunderheads like Troy Aikman notice that stuff.

 

And it's everything.  I get that they're trying to make the game safer, but I miss the days of when they'd just let guys play.  So much that guys have to watch for (especially on defense) that it doesn't seem like a natural football game any more, just some highly regulated, manufactured, football-like substance

 

This...every time there is an incompletion, I hold my breath. 

I just wonder why it's worse this year? What has changed to make it appear to be so much worse?

[badassgixxer05]

IDK, when we are winning I don't notice the refs that much. Hope it stays that way.. ?

[TigerJ]

It sure seems as if the bad officiating of the past has become the terrible officiating of the present.  I think the worst one of all (All Riveron) is in charge of the whole bunch.

[LeGOATski]

I watch most of the games and there are certain crews that are really bad while others are really good. 

 

I seem to notice bad calls coming from many of the same crews.

[foreboding]

13 minutes ago, RU5781 said:

Is it just me, or has it been worse than ever before? I’m not even counting the fact that they pretty much refuse to overturn any PI calls/non-calls. 

THey throw the flag too quickly. Last night was absurd. Flowers and the Lions have every right to be super pissed. Those were big calls that gave the Pack life.

[dpberr]

I think the refs are trying to do their job with both hands tied behind their back and blindfolded.  There are so many rules, many of them overly complex by design, that no mortal can competently do the job 100% of the time in such a fast paced game.  For some of these calls, guys sitting at a desk with an array of televisions and equipment have to look at in slow motion 10 times to come to a decision.  

 

The only way to a better officiated game is less rules so they can focus on getting what's important (in the opinion of the NFL) right.  

 

 

[clayboy54]

They're no worse than they've ever been. It's just that technology improvements keep exposing all of their mistakes. The latest improvement shows various camera angles, synced in time to verify ball placement. Seriously, the human eye just cannot pick all that up in real time. They do the beat they can, except in NE games where Kraft pays them off, and frankly, it's a shame that they are exposed so often by the high tech views.

 

If there is to be improvement, then there needs to be robotic/automated officiating. I'm sure that'll come some day. In the meantime, we have to live with what we have.

4 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

I think the worst one of all (All Riveron) is in charge of the whole bunch.

The owners want it that way and Riveron dances to their drum.

[Royale with Cheese]

I honestly think the NFL has over complicated so many rules that it's causing these guys to be trigger happy with the flags.  

It put it on the NFL as much as the refs.

[CLTbills]

10 minutes ago, RU5781 said:

 

This...every time there is an incompletion, I hold my breath. 

I just wonder why it's worse this year? What has changed to make it appear to be so much worse?

The fact that now it can be reviewed and they still screw it up. 

 

They're not actually blowing the calls on the field any worse, IMO. Just the fact that they blow the replay too, makes it worse.

[Mrbojanglezs]

the refs do not have access to slow motion and zoomed in replays during the game.

 

If you do not see the slow motion zoomed in replay, would you even notice the bad calls in real time?

 

Solution - get rid of slow motion replay on plays that are not reviewable, only show slow motion plays on TV on reviweable plays (scoring, turnovers, catches, OPI/DPI) etc.

 

Level playing field for the fans and the refs, seems simple to me

Edited October 15, 2019 by Mrbojanglezs

[uticaclub]

Look at the teams that benefit from these calls. With more camera angles, talk shows, internet, exposure, etc. it's just becoming more obvious that refs are told to influence the game to effect the game so the outcome is in line with what will benefit the league. 

[stony]

From a Bills standpoint, I’ve felt we’ve been on the right side of some potentially tough decisions. 

[Rochesterfan]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Just so happened to be the cowboys being the beneficiary of 6 straight calls against the jets as they’re driving at the end of the game to try and tie.  It was hilarious.  
 

yet, some folks think that the bad calls are all just human error and every team gets the same amount of bad calls against them.  

 

This is blatantly untrue.  There were 3 straight calls against the NYJs on the drive - all of them correct.  Then there were 2 straight calls against Dallas, both of which were correct.  That put Dallas in a 1st and 27 and then Jamal Adams was overly aggressive and got a call against him.  
 

The calls were not bad calls and for the most part they were not even questionable.  I am not sure what the Refs are supposed to do - the Jets were all over the receiver long before the ball arrived.  Are they supposed to ignore it because they have flagged the other team already a couple of times.

 

I get it there are some very questionable calls, but try an suggest it was inappropriate to flag the Jets on that drive or they were trying to help the Cowboys - ignores logic and the fact that 2 of the calls went against Dallas.

[PatsFanNH]

17 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

They've been great.  Just ask the Pats and Packers.

Lmao they haven’t been great! They have been rather awful! I mean awful like inconsistent.. if they had some sort of consistency coaches could go “ok they always call X let’s coach them up make sure they don’t do it”  same goes for consistently not calling something like say “illegal contact” on a CB.  Which was the case back in the early 2000.  That’s why Indy complained to the committee to get it unforced more moving forward. (No I don’t consider it cheating by a HC knowing how the refs call a game and using it to his advantage. Their is nothing stopping the other coach from doing the same thing.) 

[thenorthremembers]

The holding calls on long runs have become outrageous.  Block in the back or holding on a kickoff or punt return that goes for more than ten yards is almost predictable.

 

What they need to do is call the penalties that are egregious and obvious, otherwise stop with the judgement calls, because there is too much variability in judgement.   There are way too penalties per game.  I think on average there are 7 penalties per game in the NFL.  Looks like this year the penalties are trending up, on pace for 200 more than last year and 2018.  

 

Rather than add more rules, the NFL needs to scale back the refs impact on the game.  Stress that only very obvious calls are made, and then use technology to further reduce judgement calls, like where to spot the ball and whether a player broke the goal line or not.

[Lurker]

18 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

It sure seems as if the bad officiating of the past has become the terrible officiating of the present.  I think the worst one of all (All Riveron) is in charge of the whole bunch.

 

Agreed.  Fish rot from the head.

 

Solution:  make all plays reviewable, allow incorrect penalties (like the hands to the face calls on Detriot last night) to be overturned.

 

Or like this:   

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Lurker

[RyanC883]

16 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

It sure seems as if the bad officiating of the past has become the terrible officiating of the present.  I think the worst one of all (All Riveron) is in charge of the whole bunch.

 

Al needs to go.  Perhaps there will be some accountability then.  

[row_33]

I don't care about the officials, they are at most 1% of the outcome of a game, and it almost always evens out

 

I haven't cared about an NHL ref for almost 20 years now, couldn't name 2 of them.  Used to be, before helmets, I knew every one of them and their tendencies.

 

 

[KD in CA]

When you keep adding ridiculous rules and subject more calls to replay, and the league then tells them what rules to 'emphasize' or not, the quality of officiating get worse. 

Big ***** shock.  Only been that way for 30 years now.

[jkeerie]

4 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

the refs do not have access to slow motion and zoomed in replays during the game.

 

If you do not see the slow motion zoomed in replay, would you even notice the bad calls in real time?

 

Solution - get rid of slow motion replay on plays that are not reviewable, only show slow motion plays on TV on reviweable plays (scoring, turnovers, catches, OPI/DPI) etc.

 

Level playing field for the fans and the refs, seems simple to me

That doesn't solve the problem of poor officiating that is costing teams games.  It only masks it further.  A better solution was suggested by MIke Florio on PFT.  Each game should have an official that is part of the crew that looks at the replays.  He then simply tells the Ref..."pick up the flag; there is no foul."  As to the PI non-call, the NFL screwed the pooch on that one.  Patricia didn't want to challenge it...even though it was obvious...because Riveron doesn't overturn them anyway.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Agreed.  Fish rot from the head.

 

Solution:  make all plays reviewable, allow incorrect penalties (like the hands to the face calls on Detriot last night) to be overturned.

 

Or like this:   

 

 

It was clearly uncatchable... you can’t catch when you’re running around out there with your arms down like a penguin ?

 

and actually my take on the hand to face calls last night was, what a great acting job by David Bakhtiari to act like his head was getting pushed back. Looked authentic... 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

20 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

They've been great.  Just ask the Pats and Packers.

I agree, the ref have always been biased toward the Pats but this year it's on a whole new level. I rewatch our division and some FFL teams on Sunday ticket. So much holding and the Pats skate that grey area on those quick pass pick plays. 

[row_33]

16 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

When you keep adding ridiculous rules and subject more calls to replay, and the league then tells them what rules to 'emphasize' or not, the quality of officiating get worse. 

Big ***** shock.  Only been that way for 30 years now.

 

they never guessed that scrutiny would reveal problems with

 

1) defining PI either way;

 

2) requiring that a TD reception means you have to secure the ball until you've carried it to the shower and on the plane home and placed it safely in your trophy case

 

while a TD run means you can almost have it cross some invisible plane for a microsecond

Edited October 15, 2019 by row_33

[ILBillsfan]

Horrible and inconsistent all year 

 

I’ve said it a few times. Refs need to be graded each week independently and held accountable if they are not making the grade.  No accountability presently so it’s adding to the bad officiating.  Add the New York crew to that grading as well because how they can review some of these plays and not over turn plays is just as bad.  Clean some house

[row_33]

 

 

1 minute ago, ILBillsfan said:

Horrible and inconsistent all year 

 

I’ve said it a few times. Refs need to be graded each week independently and held accountable if they are not making the grade.  No accountability presently so it’s adding to the bad officiating.  Add the New York crew to that grading as well because how they can review some of these plays and not over turn plays is just as bad.  Clean some house

 

you are asking too much from them

 

the better teams and players always push the boundaries of the rules, often creating things that the fans want to see

 

if you are looking for your weaker team to be carried to a win by the refs, stop thinking this way by the time you are.... say..... 16 years old

 

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by row_33

[ProcessAccepted]

I think it's good, finally it's getting some attention.

[Shaw66]

I don't think the refs have been any worse than usual.  It's a really hard job, the speed of the game is amazing, and they do the best they can.   Having said that:

 

1.  I agree that they should do replay more like college, and have an official watching the video and able to stop the game at any time to review calls/non-calls.  It doesn't slow down the college game, and it allows the refs to get the correct call more often.

 

2.  They should have full-time paid refs, whose only job is officiating.  They should have more training, they should be evaluated more often and better.   They should have more refs, so when one guy isn't getting it done, they can take a guy off the bench, just like the coaches do.  That guy who made the illegal hands to the face call last night should be benched, immediately.   The fundamental rule for officials in all sports is don't call it if you don't see it.   He didn't see the hand on the face, but he called it anyway.   He had the equivalent of a two-fumble game for a running back, and he should be benched.

 

 

[BuffaloBillies]

In 2018, the NFL earned $8,100,000,000 (8.1 Billion). They cant hire 100 full time refs @ $100K/yr (10 Million)?

Each week they could meet in NY Tues-Thurs to go over plays together, do some drills, get rated, educational stuff.

This is a no-brainer to me vs a high school science teacher and a foot locker manager looking at each other wondering what to call or not.

[row_33]

let the refs go, it's ruining your enjoyment of a child's game (all of them)

 

this is for entertainment and maybe a little $$$ on the side (in fun hopefully)

 

you will be mumbling about the refs when you are on your park bench or your hospice deathbed...

 

 

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

they never guessed that scrutiny would reveal problems with

 

1) defining PI either way;

 

2) requiring that a TD reception means you have to secure the ball until you've carried it to the shower and on the plane home and placed it safely in your trophy case

 

while a TD run means you can almost have it cross some invisible plane for a microsecond

My wife watches a lot of football with me.  She's pretty knowledgeable for a casual fan.   Last night a guy caught a pass, ran thirty yards downfield, got tackled, lost the ball when he hit the ground.  The defenders ran to pick it up.  I told her it wasn't a fumble.  She asked why, and I explained that the ground can't cause a fumble.   A little while later a guy went into the air, clearly caught the ball, landed on his back in the end zone, the ball popped free.   She asked why it was incomplete, and I explained that on a pass, the receiver has to maintain possession through his collision with the ground and concluded by saying "it's exactly the opposite rule for running backs."  She didn't say anything, but I know she was thinking "that's dumb."

[NewEra]

26 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

This is blatantly untrue.  There were 3 straight calls against the NYJs on the drive - all of them correct.  Then there were 2 straight calls against Dallas, both of which were correct.  That put Dallas in a 1st and 27 and then Jamal Adams was overly aggressive and got a call against him.  
 

The calls were not bad calls and for the most part they were not even questionable.  I am not sure what the Refs are supposed to do - the Jets were all over the receiver long before the ball arrived.  Are they supposed to ignore it because they have flagged the other team already a couple of times.

 

I get it there are some very questionable calls, but try an suggest it was inappropriate to flag the Jets on that drive or they were trying to help the Cowboys - ignores logic and the fact that 2 of the calls went against Dallas.

My bad.  I shouldn’t go off of what I read online. Terrible post on my part

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, row_33 said:

let the refs go, it's ruining your enjoyment of a child's game (all of them)

 

this is for entertainment and maybe a little $$$ on the side (in fun hopefully)

 

you will be mumbling about the refs when you are on your park bench or your hospice deathbed...

 

 

Good point, as far as the fans are concerned.  However, for the players, it's a different story.   They are trained year-round, to be physically excellent and mentally excellent at a very demanding game.  They are damaging their bodies playing the game, because they desperately want to win.   It's a shame for those guys to lose a game, like the Lions did last night, because the officials aren't held to the same standard the players are. 

[row_33]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

My wife watches a lot of football with me.  She's pretty knowledgeable for a casual fan.   Last night a guy caught a pass, ran thirty yards downfield, got tackled, lost the ball when he hit the ground.  The defenders ran to pick it up.  I told her it wasn't a fumble.  She asked why, and I explained that the ground can't cause a fumble.   A little while later a guy went into the air, clearly caught the ball, landed on his back in the end zone, the ball popped free.   She asked why it was incomplete, and I explained that on a pass, the receiver has to maintain possession through his collision with the ground and concluded by saying "it's exactly the opposite rule for running backs."  She didn't say anything, but I know she was thinking "that's dumb."

 

well, catching the ball and running with full possession and three steps landing through the EZ and losing it during the Lambeau Leap, and after 15 minutes they tell me it wasn't a reception......  (dramatic effect but not really...)

 

 

Just now, Shaw66 said:

Good point, as far as the fans are concerned.  However, for the players, it's a different story.   They are trained year-round, to be physically excellent and mentally excellent at a very demanding game.  They are damaging their bodies playing the game, because they desperately want to win.   It's a shame for those guys to lose a game, like the Lions did last night, because the officials aren't held to the same standard the players are. 

 

that's the breaks of the game, it's a Darwinian system where the better talented and prepped win

 

complaining is what most people do when I'm watching with them, whine about the refs, the score, the coaches, the field, their life....

 

i don't buy that the concern is "for the players suffering"....

 

 

[Shaw66]

30 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

This is blatantly untrue.  There were 3 straight calls against the NYJs on the drive - all of them correct.  Then there were 2 straight calls against Dallas, both of which were correct.  That put Dallas in a 1st and 27 and then Jamal Adams was overly aggressive and got a call against him.  
 

The calls were not bad calls and for the most part they were not even questionable.  I am not sure what the Refs are supposed to do - the Jets were all over the receiver long before the ball arrived.  Are they supposed to ignore it because they have flagged the other team already a couple of times.

 

I get it there are some very questionable calls, but try an suggest it was inappropriate to flag the Jets on that drive or they were trying to help the Cowboys - ignores logic and the fact that 2 of the calls went against Dallas.

At some point, Nantz and Romo were complaining about penalties on every play, but I agree with you.  It wasn't the refs' fault.  You might have argued with one call or another, but they were obviously bad calls.  They were the result of guys trying to make plays and committing fouls.  

2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

well, catching the ball and running with full possession and three steps landing through the EZ and losing it during the Lambeau Leap, and after 15 minutes they tell me it wasn't a reception......  (dramatic effect but not really...)

 

 

 

that's the breaks of the game, it's a Darwinian system where the better talented and prepped win

 

complaining is what most people do when I'm watching with them, whine about the refs, the score, the coaches, the field, their life....

 

i don't buy that the concern is "for the players suffering"....

 

 

As I said, I agree with about the fans.  And I agree about bad bounces.   That's the breaks of the game.   

 

But when officiating could be better and the league doesn't do anything about it, I do feel for the players.   I calculated once that true full-time refs, with real weekly training and real weekly evaluation, so that the refs would be as good as they could be and the worst officials were regularly removed the field, would cost about $30 million a year more than they pay for refs now.  That's $1 million per team.   These franchises are making $100 million a year, and they refuse to spend a tiny fraction of that money to minimize human error in the officiating.