BUFFALOTONE Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, uticaclub said: Allen was reckless with the ball and his body all game. He has to learn to slide. They can't bubblewrap the players out there, Allen was fighting for yards and the defender tried to stop him from getting those yards. Heads hit sometimes, hope it wasn't intentional, but if this is your biggest takeaway from the game, there's other issues that need to be addressed. Agreed, As much as I want to burn them at the stake he HAS to learn to get down or won't be long for this league... On the bright side we turned it over 5 time once for a ST TD and still only lost by 6, it sucks but we are trending in the right direction and the league took notice of our defense. This team also did not quit, which is excellent to see. Years past we all know how this would have finished up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuncha Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Da webster guy said: Well, the refs saw it as an illegal hit and they were right. The hit resulted in a concussed QB that had to leave the game. Those are the facts. Nobody will ever know Jones intent, but he went higher than he needed to go. It would have been natural to hit him in the middle of the body, he went high. Josh was a runner, trying to get the first down, it wasn't a late hit, it was just an illegal one. Not surprised Bill is having trouble with whats legal or not. Bill would have had no trouble with what is legal or not had we hit Brady the exact same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haslett_Stomp Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, Jobot said: I keep hearing this argument, but as a defender you're still trying to stop the momentum of a player moving forward. The hit prevented Allen from gaining an additional yard. Allen's problem is that he still doesn't know what 'live to fight another day' means... The way he sacrificed his body on this run... he very irresponsibly put himself into harms way...and the game was not even close to being on the line at this point! He also may miss the next game... hurting the Bills even more god forbid they aren't able to beat the Titans with Barkely! He needs to get smart fast otherwise he'll play himself out of this league. Fair enough. I kept thinking about the play last year when Kiko was headhunting and almost took out Allen but Allen was in the process of sliding on that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, jethro_tull said: https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/09/30/bill-belichick-defends-jonathan-jones-hit-on-josh-allen/ Looking at the video THIS link shows it seems Allen hit the side of Jones helmet with the front of his helmet. Am I wrong? This is is what causes fan bases to argue with each other all the different angles showing what appears be different things. They show us (Pats) this angle and we all go “looks like a pure accident and unintentional” meanwhile Buffalo media shows you a different angle which makes you think “That’s the dirtiest play ever he should be kicked out!” . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevWarRifleman Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 After seeing this play over & over again, Jones' helmet came in at the same level as Josh's. In my book, that's intentional. He wanted to clock Josh. One Patriot already had Josh wrapped up. Jones should have come in lower to actually help in bringing Josh down. On a side note, you should hear the great Trey Wingo's "rationalization" in defense of Jones. Just watched it a few minutes ago. It was something about because Josh is taller than Jones, Jones has no other choice than to hit Josh where he did!! REALLY Wingo?? You fool!!! (More like Mungo than Wingo) that's my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Da webster guy said: Well, the refs saw it as an illegal hit and they were right. The hit resulted in a concussed QB that had to leave the game. Those are the facts. Nobody will ever know Jones intent, but he went higher than he needed to go. It would have been natural to hit him in the middle of the body, he went high. Josh was a runner, trying to get the first down, it wasn't a late hit, it was just an illegal one. Not surprised Bill is having trouble with whats legal or not. Josh was already being tackled and was giving himself up as he covered the ball. Jones could very easily choose the midsection but he stayed up. That was as intentional as the international grounding. It's the Patriots, they get away with anything they want. And the league knows it and looks the other way. Edited September 30, 2019 by LABILLBACKER 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Other than the Bills I have not seen anyone thinking he should have been ejected. Honestly, if that was a Bills player making that hit I would not think they should get ejected. I have seen way way worse hits on players than that. I think pre-concussion protocol he is playing within a few snaps. The problem with running QB's is the refs do start to treat them as RB's and I get it in some ways. On one play they run over a defensive guy and on the next should be protected. It does get confusing and unfair for a defensive player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, BarleyNY said: I appreciate Josh’s heart and, yes, it was 3rd and 8 with us down by 6, but he’s got to slide. We can complain all we want and endlessly debate intent here (and it probably was intentional), but who would be complaining if Poyer had laid out Brady in the same fashion? What Josh can control is whether he puts himself in position to get hurt or not. Slide, Josh, slide. Yup. There's that long ago highlight of Brady getting completely blown up near the sideline by someone on the Bills. He was smart enough to learn after a few of those hits early in his career that if he wanted to play into his 40s he had to stop putting himself in that position no matter what the game situation. Not saying I want Josh to start cowering on the ground every time the defense gets near, but he can still be an offensive weapon without putting himself in position to get hammered. He wasn't going to get a first down there, he wasn't going to get through 2-3 guys so he's got to recognize that and get down safely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, mattynh said: Yeah this is football. People smash each other and there is a lot of aggressiveness about it. People are losing their minds about this. It was a bang bang play where Allen was going for the first down and the defender was trying to prevent that. Bills mafia loves to celebrate the hit on Brady for 20 years ago where his helmet went flying. While that was not illegal then it would be now. Is that something to be celebrated with gifs everywhere? Allen will be out a lot if he continues to try and run defenders over. People disagreeing with you is not the same as “losing their minds” A number of hits that are illegal now were considered great plays in da day so not sure of your point there. The bottom line is, a Pats defender took out the Bills QB with a now illegal helmet to helmet hit, and the Pats had no in game consequence for that due to offsetting penalties. Belichek in the past has shown himself the master of using the rule book to his benefit, so it’s quite possible that has occurred to him. It’s also been done to the Pats- in the Pats-Jags game a couple years ago it was pretty clear “take out Gronk” was Marrone’s plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: Looking at the video THIS link shows it seems Allen hit the side of Jones helmet with the front of his helmet. Am I wrong? This is is what causes fan bases to argue with each other all the different angles showing what appears be different things. They show us (Pats) this angle and we all go “looks like a pure accident and unintentional” meanwhile Buffalo media shows you a different angle which makes you think “That’s the dirtiest play ever he should be kicked out!” . Get lost. are you banned from The cheats boards.? Y'all spend way to much time here in Bills country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: People disagreeing with you is not the same as “losing their minds” A number of hits that are illegal now were considered great plays in da day so not sure of your point there. The bottom line is, a Pats defender took out the Bills QB with a now illegal helmet to helmet hit, and the Pats had no in game consequence for that due to offsetting penalties. Belichek in the past has shown himself the master of using the rule book to his benefit, so it’s quite possible that has occurred to him. It’s also been done to the Pats- in the Pats-Jags game a couple years ago it was pretty clear “take out Gronk” was Marrone’s plan. Saying everyone has to immediately be thrown out of games and suspended when some of these plays (while illegal) are hard to prevent, they happen and players need to try and prevent them but they happen, without intent. Some of these same people are upset by all the penalties on these plays saying its ruining the game they grew up with. Throwing everyone out for helmet to helmet is a terrible idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Rc2catch said: Burfict was ejected, and now suspended the rest of the season for a nasty hit on Doyle and I’m still not sold it was dirtier than the Allen hit. Doyle was trying to get up not being held up by an opponent to tee off on. Im not a “refs are paid to be against us” kind of person I thought the game was called fairly for most of the game. The hit on Allen was dirty though in my opinion and he should of gotten a personal foul and I would of supported ejection as well. If Hughes makes that exact same hit on Brady he would of been ejected and possibly suspended today too. Disagree. Burfict was unnecessary and ejection worthy. I would have ejected Jones as well but it was a more bang-bang play with a big QB trying to get a first down. My other thread I favor ejections for all these head shots, but the Burfict hit was much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: Looking at the video THIS link shows it seems Allen hit the side of Jones helmet with the front of his helmet. Am I wrong? This is is what causes fan bases to argue with each other all the different angles showing what appears be different things. They show us (Pats) this angle and we all go “looks like a pure accident and unintentional” meanwhile Buffalo media shows you a different angle which makes you think “That’s the dirtiest play ever he should be kicked out!” . Or you could use your brain and see that he's being tackled and in the process of going down. One guy has control over where the hit is being delivered and one guy does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, Best Player Available said: Get lost. are you banned from The cheats boards.? Y'all spend way to much time here in Bills country. Wow! Your post added a lot to the conversation! I literally state something and instead of agreeing or telling me where you think I was wrong. You go with the “get lost” which is a prime example when someone losses an argument.. funny thing is we weren’t arguing.. I mean the video clearly shows in this angle Allen head butting the side of Jones helmet. Jones was trying stay high keep him from getting the first and Allen (ever so slightly) lowers his head and BAM. That’s how THIS angle looks. Care to discuss? Or are you going just stick with the 7 yr old “go away I don’t like you” routine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, klos63 said: Burfict has had multiple suspensions because of cheap shots. Comparing these 2 instances are apples and oranges. Closer comparison would be murder (like -P*ts TE who choose suicide to ) and drugs (like active P*ts player) - both are illegal, both were intentional & denied but different levels of severity. A better comparison, both would between Gronk and Jones - Gronk's player was down and speared like Burfict's victim. 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Or you could use your brain and see that he's being tackled and in the process of going down. One guy has control over where the hit is being delivered and one guy does not. Brain? i think he got in line for cheap shots instead. More useful to a troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I have seen a few people say "in the process of going down" or "wrapped up". That was a bang bang play. It all happened fast, not the sort when a guy is being held up or pushing a pile. He was running full speed and hit by one guy and then another within a second or two. Josh has proven to be a guy that can take two guys to bring him down. He needs to slide before the first contact on that play and then he is not getting hit. And to add - second guy doesnt hit him I bet he gets another yard or two for the first. I would be pissed if the Bills player even got the call against them but rules are rules, though until recently that is not even a penalty. Its hard to play football these days though on plays like that were you have to be carefull about how you hit a 250lb QB running full speed. You let up and you are the one getting hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykidsdad Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 If BB looked at the tape and really feels that way that he is a terrible human being. How could a human with a clean conscience endorse that kind of a blow to the head. It is immoral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ngbills said: I have seen a few people say "in the process of going down" or "wrapped up". That was a bang bang play. It all happened fast, not the sort when a guy is being held up or pushing a pile. He was running full speed and hit by one guy and then another within a second or two. Josh has proven to be a guy that can take two guys to bring him down. He needs to slide before the first contact on that play and then he is not getting hit. And to add - second guy doesnt hit him I bet he gets another yard or two for the first. I would be pissed if the Bills player even got the call against them but rules are rules, though until recently that is not even a penalty. Its hard to play football these days though on plays like that were you have to be carefull about how you hit a 250lb QB running full speed. You let up and you are the one getting hurt. A lot of truth but tackling dummy 101 teaches defenders to wrap and hit in the torso with their shoulders. Had #31 done that he'd have made the play and avoided scrutiny. Edited September 30, 2019 by keepthefaith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
die hard bills fan Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Doesn't matter if anyone thinks it was a cheap shot or not or what his intent was. Fact was he hit Allen in the head when he didn't have to, Allen was wrapped up and he could have gone lower. He should have been ejected because of the hit, not on intent that we will never know. This is what the NF is trying to eliminate. Only way to stop this is to eject the player, wont stop until this happens 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I dunno bout everyone else but I am ***** loving the feels from Pats fans after Sunday; you can tell they see the end approaching. You got a young hungry Bills team pissed about a cheapshot that cost the game and Pats trying to defend it...I love it, your time is nearly up bandwagoneers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 58 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: PR campaign, like they did for Gronk after he clubbed Tre White. Does the Hoodie have any credibility on points like this? He’s the master of things that skirt legality (on both sides) and are highly unsportsmanlike Bottom line, if the NFL cares about concussions, there have to be consequences for players who don’t take reasonable action to avoid helmet to helmet This all day. Jones didn't have to go high but yes he did. and Hoodie has NO credibility due to his past conduct. PR campaign indeed. Jones wanted to lay the wood into Josh Allens head and it was deliberate none of you will convince me otherwise. I also don't agree that McDermott would necessarily come to the defense of a Bills laying a dirty hit on anyone either it would more likely be something like "It was an unfortunate" I do not believe he would rationalize it as anything but a mistake. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I don't buy any of Jones' excuses. Look at his posture after the hit. He stood with his arms flexed over Allen momentarily, like a prize fighter who knew he just ko'd his opponent. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 49 minutes ago, mattynh said: Saying everyone has to immediately be thrown out of games and suspended when some of these plays (while illegal) are hard to prevent, they happen and players need to try and prevent them but they happen, without intent. Some of these same people are upset by all the penalties on these plays saying its ruining the game they grew up with. Throwing everyone out for helmet to helmet is a terrible idea. I dunno who is saying everyone has to immediately be thrown out or suspended. I happen to think Jones hit on Allen was avoidable, and the fact that he celebrated afterwards adds to the notion it was deliberate. If one doesn’t impose some immediate consequence, these things won’t stop. People made the same argument about the new roughing the passer rules, but the real problem IMO is inequitable enforcement 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 BB's gonna throw his own man under a bus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 31 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I dunno bout everyone else but I am ***** loving the feels from Pats fans after Sunday; you can tell they see the end approaching. You got a young hungry Bills team pissed about a cheapshot that cost the game and Pats trying to defend it...I love it, your time is nearly up bandwagoneers. Not with Allen he is going to waste that incredible defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngbills Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 35 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I dunno who is saying everyone has to immediately be thrown out or suspended. I happen to think Jones hit on Allen was avoidable, and the fact that he celebrated afterwards adds to the notion it was deliberate. If one doesn’t impose some immediate consequence, these things won’t stop. People made the same argument about the new roughing the passer rules, but the real problem IMO is inequitable enforcement I dont know. That play was very fast and not much time to think. There are plays when a guy has 5 yards or more to decide what to do etc. This was right there trying to stop a first down. And we can say he should have know to go lower but I dont know - that is how defenders wind up with neck injuries. He is dropping his shoulder as Josh is also both dropping his and being tackled by the other defender. I just dont see anything intentional. I would feel 100% the same if this was the Bills player making the hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) I’m not so sure it wasn’t intentional with the thought process being.....what DB tries to take Allen on with a high hit? Again, I couldn’t convict but it sure didn’t look good. Edited September 30, 2019 by Binghamton Beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, Binghamton Beast said: I’m not so sure it wasn’t intentional with the thought process being.....what DB tries to take Allen on with a high hit? Yup this. Someone was talking about how the hit was appropriate because the DB needed to stop Allen from getting to the sticks...you need to go low on a runner like Allen if you're trying to get him down. You go high if you're trying to take him out of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 BB really just say there's nothing he could have done??? How about not hitting a player in the head that is wrapped up and clearly going down??? Dirty. Allen couldn't defend himself at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Chris66 said: Not with Allen he is going to waste that incredible defense. You are starting to annoy the ***** out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro_tull Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 5 hours ago, May Day 10 said: What do we want Belichick to say? The league gave their guidelines and Belichick said that is the reality and they are going to move on with those guidelines. He is also going to defend his player, we would expect McDermott to do the same how about that a helmet to helmet hit is never good and that jones could have avoided it? by belichick saying there was “nothing different jones could do” he is basically endorsing the hit. does anyone believe belichick would not call for a hit like that a la greg williams? belichick is part of the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 5 hours ago, May Day 10 said: What do we want Belichick to say? The league gave their guidelines and Belichick said that is the reality and they are going to move on with those guidelines. He is also going to defend his player, we would expect McDermott to do the same A McDermott player simply isn’t going to make that cheap shot hit, so no defending would be needed. If that was McDs style, Tom Brady is getting fitted for replacement kneecaps today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro_tull Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 I have lost respect for BB after those comments. He's dead to me- much like Greg Williams who is still a dirty coach. Eff the both of them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsredneck1 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, jethro_tull said: I have lost respect for BB after those comments. He's dead to me- much like Greg Williams who is still a dirty coach. Eff the both of them.... so to recap so far this season starting with yesterday......allen was in the grasp going down and instead of wrapping up low, it's a head hit, no big deal to bb...or the league. ab quits the raiders and already has a deal in place with bb...no big deal. patrick chung ...didn't he get busted with coke? plays on sunday no big deal. when is someone /some team gonna get revenge? maybe i'm hoping greggo does it. i'm sick of kraft. bellyache and marsha. who will be the first team to kick their arses? of course that would have been my mo if i were frazier yesterday, but .....same ole same ole. hopefully some other dc steps up and says enough is enough...but who and when? you'd think after all the screwing and dirty hits the pats have given us, we'd have some more attack like testicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manther Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Formerly Allan in MD said: BB's gonna throw his own man under a bus? Not even if they kill someone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Of course Belichick is gonna defend it... and then to influence the officials Brady it gonna tweet about how he can’t watch it anymore the next time a QB gets smoked without repercussions on MNF to make sure no one is allow to violate his personal space without a flag being thrown. The league is obligated by their bylaws to let the Patriots*** have it both ways until they deem it’s no longer “good for the game”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomark Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 I wonder how many years after he retires when we find out there was a Greg Williams type bounty for this game....and he will say " I never knew about that.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 8 hours ago, klos63 said: I don't think the hit was a cheap shot. It seemed to me he was putting his shoulder to Allen but went helmet to helmet. I think it was one of things that just happened. The penalty was the correct call because of the hit, but no ejection necessary. If Bills fans want someone to blame for Allen getting concussed, they should blame Allen. Even if Allen somehow develops into a serviceable NFL QB, he's not going to last longer than a few years because of his dumb decisions and no regard for his own safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 This thread is full of delusion. They called the penalty on the field. What more would you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Of course if Brady got hit like that, they'd ban the player for life, give the patriots a 3rd round comp pick and put them in the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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