Oliver currently is #4 in DT Pass Rush Win Rate

[Dan]

5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Cliffs Notes version: If my team is taking a DT at 9, he'd better be the next coming of Warren Sapp. Is Ed Oliver the next coming of Warren Sapp?

 

And 3 games into his career, was Warren Sap the dominant player you think he was?   Come on man... cut the kid some slack and let's let him have a season or two before we decide he's a wasted pick.  

[billsfan89]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I expect pretty much immediate impact from a top 10 pick, honestly.

 

Impact is a relative term. I think Oliver has looked to be a quality player at his position. I think expecting a rookie even in football to play at a pro-bowl or higher level is a bit unrealistic. It happens more often in football that rookies can some in and play at a All-Star or even All-Pro level but even some of the best players have decent but unspectacular rookie years. 

 

JJ Watt had 5.5 sacks his rookie year but improved tremendously his second year and was off to the races. I don't think there is a player that could have been had at pick 9 realistically that would have had the impact you wanted. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Would that be something like coming in and logging the most snaps on the inside of anyone on the team while the run d goes through a 3 game stretch of elite RB’s and comes out top ten in rush yds allowed? 

 

For me? given all the HYPE about the guy, at least a .5 sack a game pace.

 

He's supposed to be unstoppable in the pass rush. He's proven to not be that for the time being.

 

Could he grow into it? Maybe.

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

20 minutes ago, nucci said:

Pass Rush Win Rate? 

 

Is equal to 100% minus pass rush lose rate, Ive understood. 

[MJS]

Oh, I thought he was already a bust and we were planning on cutting him. Isn't that right?

[John from Riverside]

14 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Pass rush has been pretty anemic, so I don't think so.

 

But hey, who knows. This guy could end up being good. Just not too hopeful about it at the moment.

 

 

 

Sorry, no offense. I have NO desire to rehash that conversation. Just go back to the draft threads and you'll see my objection.

 

You do not win games with bad pass rush.....you are not a top 5 defense with bad pass rush

 

No offense Joe but you are holding onto a bone you should let go....or at least be a little more open to what is actually happening on the field

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

You do not win games with bad pass rush.....you are not a top 5 defense with bad pass rush

 

No offense Joe but you are holding onto a bone you should let go....or at least be a little more open to what is actually happening on the field

 

I said upthread, I'm more OK with him now than I was then, but he doesn't look like the guy he was hyped to be. But I'll say this: he gets a sack on Brady, I'll forgive a LOT of let-downs.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Joe in Winslow

[JGMcD2]

It's amazing to me the people who have never worked with athletes a day in their life and either pound the table or diminish the guy based on things like;

 

• An article they read
• The school the player went to
• The NFL.com draft report on that player
• The player's stats on a given day
• The player's favorite color
• The player's jersey number
• The player's favorite food

It's insane. 

[Jerry Jabber]

Just because Oliver and the rest of the D haven't sacking the QB as often as we like, it does not mean that they are ineffective. Since week 1, I've seen opposing QB's rush their throws due to pressure. Whether it's an incomplete pass or a sack, who cares, just as long as the results benefit the Bills.

[MJS]

5 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

It's amazing to me the people who have never worked with athletes a day in their life and either pound the table or diminish the guy based on things like;

 

• An article they read
• The school the player went to
• The NFL.com draft report on that player
• The player's stats on a given day
• The player's favorite color
• The player's jersey number
• The player's favorite food (You mean other than ranch on wings, right? We can't start letting that slide.)

It's insane. 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

21 minutes ago, nucci said:

so if he wins his pass rush but the QB throws a TD....

 

Then he did his job, somebody else didn’t do theirs. 

[JGMcD2]

Just now, MJS said:

 

Yes. That's a big no-no.

[Buffalo Boy]

36 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Because pressures count as much as hits?

 

How many QBs have actually been able to step up into a pocket against us this year?

This is why I want a double digit edge rusher next year. 

That would make this a dominating D

[elroy16]

7 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I said upthread, I'm more OK with him now than I was then, but he doesn't look like the guy he was hyped to be. But I'll say this: he gets a sack on Brady, I'll forgive a LOT of let-downs.

 

 

 

 

 

So if he gets one sack on Brady, but gets pushed around and abused all game, you're good?

 

 

What if he doesn't get any sacks but is constantly in Brady's face and causes a pick or two? You're still going to be unhappy because he didn't show up in the stat sheet?

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

For me? given all the HYPE about the guy, at least a .5 sack a game pace.

 

He's supposed to be unstoppable in the pass rush. He's proven to not be that for the time being.

 

Could he grow into it? Maybe.

 

 

 

Regardless of what's said about a rookie, thinking they'll be unstoppable in anyway, shape, or form is hilariously naive. 

 

 

I feel like if he came in and was playing like Aaron Donald, you'd still B word. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, elroy16 said:

 

 

 

So if he gets one sack on Brady, but gets pushed around and abused all game, you're good?

 

 

What if he doesn't get any sacks but is constantly in Brady's face and causes a pick or two? You're still going to be unhappy because he didn't show up in the stat sheet?

 

 

 

 

 

Regardless of what's said about a rookie, thinking they'll be unstoppable in anyway, shape, or form is hilariously naive. 

 

 

I feel like if he came in and was playing like Aaron Donald, you'd still B word. 

 

I won't pretend to tell you how to feel, but I'm pretty much one of the LEAST complaining posters around here.

 

 

[nedboy7]

Man this is a fun thread!  

[Dablitzkrieg]

46 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

My deal with this dude is that I don't think we should have drafted him with a need for offensive weapons. I'm warming up to him, but I'm not ready to consider him ANY kind of game changer at the moment.

 

I for one, don't care that you are "warming up to him".  I'm pretty sure the Bills don't either.  you've had an agenda with him since being drafted.  You are blind if you don't see how special this kids is!

[transplantbillsfan]

Weird.

 

I thought everyone was complaining about how invisible he's been 

[Warcodered]

Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

Weird.

 

I thought everyone was complaining about how invisible he's been 

Nope just specific people.

[H2o]

Aaron Donald in his rookie year only had 2 sacks through 7 games and progressively got better to finish with 9 as a rookie. J.J. Watt only had 5.5 sacks total in his rookie season. Oliver has been doing his job and causing pressure from the middle. The sacks will come. He's only 3 games into his rookie season. 

[aristocrat]

Hall of famer 

[Don Otreply]

33 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

For me? given all the HYPE about the guy, at least a .5 sack a game pace.

 

He's supposed to be unstoppable in the pass rush. He's proven to not be that for the time being.

 

Could he grow into it? Maybe.

 

Normally you come across as a thinker before you type. 

 

Go Bills!!!

[Augie]

58 minutes ago, nucci said:

Pass Rush Win Rate? 

 

It’s an ESPN thing, so.......

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Don Otreply said:

Normally you come across as a thinker before you type. 

 

Go Bills!!!

 

I'll admit I'm apply an unfair grading curve on Ed. But my reasoning for it's above. Rest assured, I intend to continue a quiet wait and see when it comes to him.

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

He's getting  close to his first sack. Hopefully  this Sunday! 

Absolutely. It's coming Sunday. 

That would bring the house down! 

He's one of my keys to the game , if he can get disruption inside on a somewhat regular basis , that'd be huge... 

Kid is super talented though , glad he's a Bill ,  he's going to be a game changer!

[Don Otreply]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I'll admit I'm apply an unfair grading curve on Ed. But my reasoning for it's above. Rest assured, I intend to continue a quiet wait and see when it comes to him.

By your own admission you impinge the reasoning of your own argument, none the less, I believe you will in the end come around. Fingers crossed for Sunday,

 

Go Bills!!!

[Gambit]

43 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

For me? given all the HYPE about the guy, at least a .5 sack a game pace.

 

He's supposed to be unstoppable in the pass rush. He's proven to not be that for the time being.

 

Could he grow into it? Maybe.

 

Donald is considered one of the best if not the best defensive player in the league and yet he just got his 1st sack this season this weekend. So, I think it's alright that Oliver hasn't gotten one yet. In due time

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

By your own admission you impinge the reasoning of your own argument, none the less, I believe you will in the end come around. Fingers crossed for Sunday,

 

Go Bills!!!

 

I can accept that judgement. I know a lot of my criticism of Oliver isn't rational.

[Don Otreply]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I can accept that judgement. I know a lot of my criticism of Oliver isn't rational.

I can accept that,  being rational all the time gets boring...

 

Go Bills!!!

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, gregor7777 said:

From the 2nd paragraph of the article:

 

Our Pass Block Win Rate metric tells us the rate at which linemen can sustain their blocks for 2.5 seconds or longer. Likewise, our Pass Rush Win Rate metric tells us how often a pass-rusher is able to beat his block within 2.5 seconds. Our model of pass blocking harnesses player tracking data from NFL Next Gen Stats.

 Stats of this type are filled with subjective nuance, but are presented as hard data.

 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

52 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I said upthread, I'm more OK with him now than I was then, but he doesn't look like the guy he was hyped to be. But I'll say this: he gets a sack on Brady, I'll forgive a LOT of let-downs.

 

 

He was hyped up as Aaron Donald....who was more polished coming out of college

 

I think the drill on Oliver is that he actually need to work on his pass rush moves and was doing what he was doing in college mostly on his athletism....so....like Josh Allen.....small school prospect with elite athletism

 

I expect Oliver to get better as he goes along....and he is pretty good right now.....Aaron Donald is the BEST DT IN FOOTBALL......The DT the jets took is not even toughing eitehr one of them just food for thought

[Stank_Nasty]

58 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

For me? given all the HYPE about the guy, at least a .5 sack a game pace.

 

He's supposed to be unstoppable in the pass rush. He's proven to not be that for the time being.

 

Could he grow into it? Maybe.

 

well if I remember correctly(could be mistaken)back at the draft when you were being even worse than this because you didn't think he could hold up against the run either.... i'd say he's shut that portion up so far.

 

no reason to think he wont keep improving.... he's been good. IMO you aren't approaching this nearly as rational as you do other topics. its sorta odd.

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

well if I remember correctly(could be mistaken)back at the draft when you were being even worse than this because you didn't think he could hold up against the run either.... i'd say he's shut that portion up so far.

 

no reason to think he wont keep improving.... he's been good. IMO you aren't approaching this nearly as rational as you do other topics. its sorta odd.

 

 

 

I've admitted as such upthread.

 

 

[nucci]

36 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

It’s an ESPN thing, so.......

kinda like exit velocity and launch angle for baseball?

[thurst44]

29 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I can accept that judgement. I know a lot of my criticism of Oliver isn't rational.

This is one of the most affably self-aware posts I've ever read on a sports website. Well done, sir. Hopefully you were as wrong on Oliver as it would appear I was wrong about Allen.

[Rocbillsfan1]

For people stating he hasn’t done much you are terrible at watching football. I’m constantly seeing him collapse the pocket forcing the qb to scramble and throw the ball away for an incomplete pass. It was extremely noticeable in the first 2 games. I get it, it’s a tough game to follow with lots of action going on at once but the people asking  more of Oliver at this point have been down right laughable. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Rocbillsfan1

[billsbackto81]

1 hour ago, syhuang said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27584726/nfl-pass-blocking-pass-rushing-rankings-2019-pbwr-prwr-leaderboard

 

Oliver has 22% pass rush win rate after 3 games, only behind G.Jarrett, Donald, and Campbell.

 

Top 10 DT Pass Rush Win Rate

1. Grady Jarrett, Falcons, 28%
2. Aaron Donald, Rams, 27%
3. Calais Campbell, Jaguars, 26%
4. Ed Oliver, Bills, 22%
5. Chris Jones, Chiefs, 22%
6. Quinton Jefferson, Seahawks, 21%
7. Maliek Collins, Cowboys, 20%
8. Eddie Goldman, Bears, 19%
9. Corey Peters, Cardinals, 16%
10. Christian Covington, Cowboys, 16%

 

 

Also, in the same link above where it also has pass block win rate stats, Morse is #10 (94%) among the centers, only Bills' O-line in top 10 in individual positions. However, Bills has an overall 63% pass block win rate which is good for #6 in all 32 teams.

 

 

Thats good company to be in as a rookie.

He's been everything advertised and justifies his draft status.

 

Now Ford on the other hand............

Edited September 25, 2019 by billsbackto81

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I wish Kyle and Oliver could’ve played together, what a DT combo they would’ve made. 

 

If you can create pressure with your front four without blitzing you have a huge advantage. 

[Mat68]

Not saying it will happen or hes as good.  Donald led the league in sacks with 20 last year.  He didnt record a sack til week 4.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

No way.