Horrible Harry (Harrison Phillips) out for the year...ACL

[KD in CA]

8 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

Joe B  is pretty dialed in. But I get it. It’s cool to bash every single person w an opinion. 

 

Oh yeah also can’t wait to hear “next man’s up” 8 billion times. 

 

And doubly cool if that opinion was in any way favorable to a member of the Bills.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

17 minutes ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

I was wondering if that might be a real possibility. Team is undefeated, he's been staying close mentoring Ed Oliver - who knows?

I’m sure there is little to no chance, it’s just nice to think about. 

[Not at the table Karlos]

1 hour ago, One Buffalo said:

Bummer... he has looked much better to start the year.  Joe B's All-22 review from last week- (from the Athletic - https://theathletic.com/1219528/2019/09/17/bills-all-22-review-how-the-week-2-film-shows-josh-allen-set-his-new-gold-standard-and-grades-for-each-player/)

 

I was a star defender last year. But focusing on him this year and I’m not impressed. He’s been getting a single blocker a lot while Oliver gets the double team and doesn’t do much with it. Just kinda stands there with the OL.  Starting to think Jordan Phillips should start next to Ed. 

[Rocky Landing]

Dang. He was important depth, and worthy of being a starter on more than a few defenses in the league. 

Who takes his place?

[Not at the table Karlos]

25 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Poof.     Star's been doing his job, IMO.    Which is not to be Aaron Donald or Geno Atkins.    It's to absorb double teams and make the rest of the D more effective.    Do you think we'd have the the defensive success we've had the last two years if he was under-performing?   Jesus T.

 

What is worrisome is that this defense depends on D-line rotation.    They now need an interior DT option to spell Lotulelei, to the same extent the other guys on the line are rotated in and out.    Beane and Malik Boyd have some work to do...  

Ed has been getting a lot of the double teams. Star hasn’t really done anything against single blockers to demand a double.

[Lurker]

6 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I'm not a Star hater, in fact I defended his play all of last year.

This year is a different story.  His snap count was down to 34% yesterday.

He's the backup depth now.

 

There is an injury to the guy who is playing more than he is the last 2 games and he needs to step up his game.

I would expect that from any player (especially a vet making the money he is) to do the same.

 

He needs to do more than eat up blockers (which I know he does).  

 

 

Context.    Star's snap count was likely down yesterday because Cincy went heavily to the passing game in the second half.   That's not who or what Star is.   It means more snaps for Harry and Jordan Phillips, who unquestionably are better equiped to handle that role.

 

But I haven't seen anything yet that says the Bills are getting gashed up the middle by opposing RBs or that the D-line is not getting a strong center push on passing plays when Star is in the game.  If anything we seem to be improved from a year ago in that respect.

 

If you want to ***** about how much he's getting paid, that's something else.   But in my mind, the Bills are getting what that thought they would from Star... 

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

 

I like the proactive nature of these guys.  Hopefully a trade for Atkins!   Or finding some additional good depth elsewhere in the league.  Even a one year rental vet would be good 

[YoloinOhio]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

I like the proactive nature of these guys.  Hopefully a trade for Atkins!   Or finding some additional good depth elsewhere in the league.  Even a one year rental vet would be good 

I’m assuming it is more along the lines of signing a guy off of the PS. Probably Vincent Taylor from Miami who some thought was going to take Harry’s job anyway. Star is the starter and Harry only played 26 snaps yesterday. 

Edited September 23, 2019 by YoloinOhio

[Augie]

22 minutes ago, One Buffalo said:

 

He's not the only source who has said Phillips has looked good this year.  

 

https://buffalowdown.com/2019/09/18/buffalo-bills-stock-report-week-2-win-giants/2/

 

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2019/09/josh-allen-carries-the-day-as-buffalo-bills-beat-the-ny-giants-5-instant-observations.html

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/opinion/arrow-uparrow-down-bills-giants

 

https://www.cover1.net/bills-vs-giants-standouts-josh-allen/

 

Just a few for starters.  

 

Glass half full? It will feel like we have an extra first round pick showing up for us next year. Get well, sir! 

[Cripple Creek]

43 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Poof.     Star's been doing his job, IMO.    Which is not to be Aaron Donald or Geno Atkins.    It's to absorb double teams and make the rest of the D more effective.    Do you think we'd have the the defensive success we've had the last two years if he was under-performing?   Jesus T.

 

What is worrisome is that this defense depends on D-line rotation.    They now need an interior DT option to spell Lotulelei, to the same extent the other guys on the line are rotated in and out.    Beane and Malik Boyd have some work to do...  

If Star (in name only) is doing his job so well then why was Phillips getting the bulk of 4th quarter snaps?

[Dopey]

6 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

If Star (in name only) is doing his job so well then why was Phillips getting the bulk of 4th quarter snaps?

I think Lurker did a good job of explaining this a few posts ago.

13 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I’m assuming it is more along the lines of signing a guy off of the PS. Probably Vincent Taylor from Miami who some thought was going to take Harry’s job anyway. Star is the starter and Harry only played 26 snaps yesterday. 

I've got film of a practice squad player at DT just blowing it up, sure it's only one play but he should've been given a chance over Harry,even though the coaching staff doesn't agree. Harry wasn't doing enough for this 3-0 team. He should have been replaced by this practice squad player all along! Hmmm, sounds familiar.

Edit: Yolo, I'm not saying this to say you are saying this.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Dopey

[Ralonzo]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Yes.  A number of them.  Can we stop with the incessant hyperbole?

There's literally 1000% chance that doesn't happen.

[billsfan_34]

Whats Miami sellin’?

[WideNine]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

That’s a tough loss.  He was playing really well.

 

Had a decent game against Barkley, was disciplined in his gaps, and has been bringing some pressure up the middle.

 

Damn, he was really turning the corner and coming along this year. Wishing him a speedy and full recovery.

[Cripple Creek]

18 minutes ago, Dopey said:

I think Lurker did a good job of explaining this a few posts ago.

 

I’m hard headed, can you try explaining it to me? Because, I thought that teams what their most effective players on the field at crunch time.

[YoloinOhio]

19 minutes ago, Dopey said:

I think Lurker did a good job of explaining this a few posts ago.

I've got film of a practice squad player at DT just blowing it up, sure it's only one play but he should've been given a chance over Harry,even though the coaching staff doesn't agree. Harry wasn't doing enough for this 3-0 team. He should have been replaced by this practice squad player all along! Hmmm, sounds familiar.

Edit: Yolo, I'm not saying this to say you are saying this.

Not at all, but when they brought in Vincent Taylor, that narrative was out there

[LABILLBACKER]

46 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

I was a star defender last year. But focusing on him this year and I’m not impressed. He’s been getting a single blocker a lot while Oliver gets the double team and doesn’t do much with it. Just kinda stands there with the OL.  Starting to think Jordan Phillips should start next to Ed. 

Star has been somewhat of a disappointment.  He's not worth the money but he does eat blockers. The problem is he does nothing else? I would have no problem seeing Ed & Jordan in there 66% of the time. 

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, Mojo44 said:

You got me too. Who is he

he was the guy wearing the Pancho Sombrero coming out of the tunnel. and for good reason.

Awesome Kid all around ad played some nice football for Us this season.

best wishes Harry. get well asap Bills love you

[BurpleBull]

Call up Kyle Peko; he stood out that final preseason game and was a big reason for the comeback win. 

[dollars 2 donuts]

Why the F couldn’t it have just been a bad spra8n, dammit.  Out 4-6 weeks and then ease back in.

 

f’n acl injuries.  I never cheer this even with teams I hate...darn it.

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

He's largely been a disappointment.  This staff is still on the Murphy delusion so maybe Lawson gets a few more snaps playing DT.

 

just being real here. i don't care for your takes very much.

seems you are on the wrong Fan board most all the time ?

 

 but i know

 i am a homer of the worst sort

: )

1 hour ago, Dkollidas said:

I think they’ll have Jordan Phillips rotate more with Star as the Nose. He does have the size and strength for it. Oliver will be inside and then I think they’ll rotate in Lawson and whoever else they put onto the 53. 

 

I could see them adding another defensive end and letting Lawson play all across the defensive line. Inside and outside. 

bringing up a PS guy most likely. and thats alright in this case. Lawson can move inside in situations as well

[VW82]

This flat out sucks. I thought he was one of the best players on the field in week two.

[Bad Things]

Bugger!

He really seemed to be coming along this season. 

[zow2]

Dang it.  What a gut punch.  Especially on pancho billa day.  

[die hard bills fan]

sucks big time

[GreggTX]

He was playing at a high level. 1st major injury of the season. Hopefully the last.

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

 

Poof.     Star's been doing his job, IMO.    Which is not to be Aaron Donald or Geno Atkins.    It's to absorb double teams and make the rest of the D more effective.    Do you think we'd have the the defensive success we've had the last two years if he was under-performing?   Jesus T.

 

What is worrisome is that this defense depends on D-line rotation.    They now need an interior DT option to spell Lotulelei, to the same extent the other guys on the line are rotated in and out.    Beane and Malik Boyd have some work to do...  

We need to stop this fallacy that Star is absorbing double teams every time he’s in the lineup, thus allowing others to make plays. Truth is he’s in primarily on run downs and is single blocked far more often than doubled. He doesn’t do anything with the 1:1 opportunities either, just kinda finds himself “in the way.” When he is doubled, it’s by play design, not because he’s disruptive. He offers nothing there either. There’s a reason he averages 1 tackle per game since about the 3rd year he’s been in the league. He’s just not active enough. Hopefully Jordan Phillips plays well enough to lessen the blow of losing a DT like Harrison. 

[Rocky Landing]

I apologize if this has been posted, already (I'm pretty busy at work), but are they calling someone up from the PS? Kyle Peko? Vincent Taylor?

[3rdand12]

12 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

We need to stop this fallacy that Star is absorbing double teams every time he’s in the lineup, thus allowing others to make plays. Truth is he’s in primarily on run downs and is single blocked far more often than doubled. He doesn’t do anything with the 1:1 opportunities either, just kinda finds himself “in the way.” When he is doubled, it’s by play design, not because he’s disruptive. He offers nothing there either. There’s a reason he averages 1 tackle per game since about the 3rd year he’s been in the league. He’s just not active enough. Hopefully Jordan Phillips plays well enough to lessen the blow of losing a DT like Harrison. 

Jordan Phillips is doing nicely and super under rated. he is play both DT techs dependant on down etc.

and he is still growing ( lol he is pretty f'n big already). But they gotta bring up a player form PS. Peko or Taylor. just to spell for the 8 man that McD loves.

Hope those kids are studying their behinds off.

 this means LBs need to stay disciplined and more aware.
last week was not their best effort so far.

2 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I apologize if this has been posted, already (I'm pretty busy at work), but are they calling someone up from the PS? Kyle Peko? Vincent Taylor?

no word yet

[YoloinOhio]

7 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I apologize if this has been posted, already (I'm pretty busy at work), but are they calling someone up from the PS? Kyle Peko? Vincent Taylor?

Will probably happen tomorrow 

[skibum]

3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Looks like it was that first step to the left, where the block caused him to plant his foot a just little bit off from where he had intended to. ACLs are a funny thing. Sometimes it doesn't take much to snap one, just a little misalignment and often your own muscles do the rest. 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by skibum

[Boca BIlls]

4 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Hm, perhaps opens a spot on the roster for a certain someone on the PS?

 

What DT from PS?

[PIZ]

Wonder if the new turf had anything to do with the injury?

 

 

[Reed83HOF]

2 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

f’n acl injuries.  I never cheer this even with teams I hate...darn it.

I was in the stands at the Ralph when Brady tore his; I cheered like a fool

[LSHMEAB]

He's been a pleasant surprise. Not very athletic, but he's been making some noise. Tough loss and I think they may have to look outside the org. to find a replacement. NEED depth at that position and Oliver is coming along a bit slowly.

 

As an aside, I'm still concerned about edge pressure and pressure overall. Dalton had all day to throw, especially on the last drive. Tre bailed them out thankfully.

[starrymessenger]

4 hours ago, Dopey said:

I think Lurker did a good job of explaining this a few posts ago.

I've got film of a practice squad player at DT just blowing it up, sure it's only one play but he should've been given a chance over Harry,even though the coaching staff doesn't agree. Harry wasn't doing enough for this 3-0 team. He should have been replaced by this practice squad player all along! Hmmm, sounds familiar.

Edit: Yolo, I'm not saying this to say you are saying this.

 

Taylor was signed to the PS before the regular season. Based on what some felt was an unremarkable rookie year Philip's position in the rotation could reasonably have been regarded as vulnerable.  In fact in the three games so far Philip's looked to have taken a step forward and so I don't think anyone was arguing for his snaps to be reduced. 

As for Taylor, he is a quality young DT who played well and showed good progression his two years in Miami following his draft as part of their rotation, albeit not as a featured defensive player. He was a surprise cut especially given management's public assertions that building both lines was job one (then they trade Tunsil so go figure). Apparently Taylor was cut because he wasn't a good scheme fit, not because he couldn't play. He was not going to be a FA very long and the Bills were smart to sign him immediately he became available.

A poster earlier in this thread had some doubts about him as a replacement for Philips because he is not exactly prototypical as a nose. He has lined up at the position however and he's bigger than Philips. He's very athletic so I can see him as 3T too, but I think that mainly only highlights his versatility. 

Losing Harrison Philips is a bad body blow, but at least the Bills are deep with young DTs who can play.

Edited September 24, 2019 by starrymessenger

[RyanC883]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I’m assuming it is more along the lines of signing a guy off of the PS. Probably Vincent Taylor from Miami who some thought was going to take Harry’s job anyway. Star is the starter and Harry only played 26 snaps yesterday. 

 

forgot about Taylor.  Liked that singing when it happened then forgot about it.  Surprised he is on a practice squad.  

[Happy]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

He's been a pleasant surprise. Not very athletic, but he's been making some noise. Tough loss and I think they may have to look outside the org. to find a replacement. NEED depth at that position and Oliver is coming along a bit slowly.

 

As an aside, I'm still concerned about edge pressure and pressure overall. Dalton had all day to throw, especially on the last drive. Tre bailed them out thankfully.

 

This is a tough loss, Harry seemed to be making strides to being at least a solid DT that isn't a liability.  Not surprising that Oliver is a little slow to develop; the level of NFL C and G are well above what he faced at U of Houston.  He'll need most of the rest of this season to develop.  As far as going outside the org to find another DT; who does Carolina have on their roster where they're waiting for a sucker to take off their hands ala Star and Benjamin?

 

Absolutely agree with your point about edge/pressure.  It seems that a pass rush is secondary to McD and Frazier; DBs are a priority with both being former DBs in their playing days.  If so, that philosophy is very flawed.

[iinii]

7 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Kyle is going to need to un retire 

I thought he had for a second on Sunday. Phillips was looking like Kyle. Blowing up the middle and disrupting things in the backfield. High motor guy....he will be missed.

[BillsfaninSB]

Sigh.   We can’t have nice things.