Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 55 minutes ago, Bangarang said: Pretty easy decision not to Especially if true that it was north of $14M 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 minute ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: Definitely right to always point out context Donuts, beyond just the stark numbers. And FWIW, I also did not mean for my list to be exclusive, as in the modern era plenty of additional finalists may be found (Jauron, Fewell, Williams, et. al). But hey, at least we never elevated Rich Kotite to our HC!! The Jets can never live that dude down, can they? ...and man-o-man, Huds, if you ever come across what former players thought of Hank Bullough. Whew...the great combination of being unsuccessful and not well liked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bourbonboy Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said: If the Bills sign Ziggy, I could see them trying to trade Lawson or maybe hold onto him. He's still on a cheap rookie contract. I think it would mean that Yarbrough would be cut. Plus letting Lawson walk as a free agent may yield a comp pick. Per Spotrac, Lawsons 2019 money is fully guaranteed....there's no way he gets cut, even if Ziggy comes to town.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc11 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 From NFL.com's article on the Bill's not picking up Shaq's option... "A stronger run defender than pass rusher, questions linger about Lawson's fit in coach Doug McDermott's defense." ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 I would have picked it up just to make yourself less desperate. With that being said, if you can negotiate a 3 or 4 year deal with him it would be a win. Maybe something like 3 years, $20M with $13M guaranteed? That’s a smaller overall value than Murphy got but a little more guaranteed money. Shaq feels like a more dependable option than Murphy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Especially if true that it was north of $14M Hap, they did mention on WGR that they could exercise the option and they are only bound if he gets hurt. If he finishes the season they can just cut him without consequences. That said I am with you. Plus, if he wants it let him prove he is worth it, either to the Bills or the open market at seasons end. Edited May 1, 2019 by dollars 2 donuts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said: ...and man-o-man, Huds, if you ever come across what former players thought of Hank Bullough. Whew...the great combination of being unsuccessful and not well liked. What a shame. With a great HC type name like Hank, "Hammerin' Hank the Bull"(ough) would've just rolled off the tongue if his teams had been able to steamroll the division in his time...ah well. On to better times my friend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Beane has a way different phiosophy then prior GM's Its not JUST if you were a player drafted by the buffalo bills that you get a 2nd contract.....you also have to be worth the money that comes with it and that contract for Shaq is EXPENSIVE..... It does not matter if we have the money to do ti....it matters on whether he has earned it....and he hasnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 minute ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: What a shame. With a great HC type name like Hank, "Hammerin' Hank the Bull"(ough) would've just rolled off the tongue if his teams had been able to steamroll the division in his time...ah well. On to better times my friend. I played against his son in high school. The one who I believe went to Michigan, I think, and then went pro briefly. ...he was better than me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCbillsfan Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, bourbonboy said: Per Spotrac, Lawsons 2019 money is fully guaranteed....there's no way he gets cut, even if Ziggy comes to town.... i agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Oh..so now the Bills are worried about the compensatory pick formula coming into play after they just signed a bazillion FA's this offseason? I think the writer has no clue... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 54 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Except Sammy had real value. Shaq could get like a 5th at best. Only to C.Biscuit97, Sammy never lived up to first round status and still has not; mediocre at best! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said: I played against his son in high school. The one who I believe went to Michigan, I think, and then went pro briefly. ...he was better than me. I’m sure not by much! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 47 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: You honestly think Whaley wanted to mess with the number 2 defense in the nfl? Shaq was with Rex’s son in Clemson. All players like Mario and Dareus did was complain about Rex’s system because it was completely different than Schwartz. I actually agree with C.Biscuit on this; Rex ruined a great defense but Whaley never lived up to expectations - still not in the NFL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Blame Rex for Lawson. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said: No shock at all. Pretty obvious they were interested in an upgrade and that definitely meant his 5th year option was unlikely. Personally, I think we sign Ansah and then try and trade Shaq like we did with Sammy after not picking up his option either. Beane probably tries to trade Shaq whether we sign Ansah or not, just to try and get some value before letting him walk in FA. I am not sure they will. He is cheap, solid, depth and the pick you'd get in a trade is likely no more than we could get for him under the comp formula. I still say if there is a DE on the current roster who doesn't make the 53 it is Murphy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark92 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 58 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Not overpaying for average players. How refreshing. Brandon Beane is slowly and methodically turing the Bills into a well oiled machine. The Bills are going to catch the league by surprise in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 54 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: It was Rex and getting players to fit his “system.” Whaley was neutered here. Whaley wasn’t a strong enough leader to be a GM. He allowed himself to be cast aside and he also drafted horribly. I am glad he is gone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 36 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said: That's a fair point. I totally agree he is NOT worth $10 mill/yr. I think he's a good rotational player worth whatever that would be worth (I have no idea how the cap and salaries work.. they all get paid way more than me, that's all I know. ) and he has a chance to prove that he can be more this year and earn more money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Before they commit to even 6 mill a year I'd prefer they draft another DE Better to try to improve that position with a high draft pick than pay 3 times the rookie salary for mediocrity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) Edited May 1, 2019 by Reed83HOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 30 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: I really, really do not want to dispute that, as I am inclined to agree! However, we have many deserving candidates...Jim Ringo? Kay Stephenson? Hank Bullough? A real Rogue's Gallery of ineptness to choose from. So glad it looks like our trajectory is miles ahead of those clowns now!! Can't argue with that list. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said: Yes, if the FO and coaching is the same one that drafted him. If not, it’s not really damning in either capacity. Often the scheme fit is a reason, other times it’s the culture, etc. In this case he’s a holdover from the previous regime (the only one left drafted by Whaley, for a coach and defensive who is no longer here.) So I dont see it as damning indictment on Shaq, or on scouting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimKellyTryouts Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 33 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: I really, really do not want to dispute that, as I am inclined to agree! However, we have many deserving candidates...Jim Ringo? Kay Stephenson? Hank Bullough? A real Rogue's Gallery of ineptness to choose from. So glad it looks like our trajectory is miles ahead of those clowns now!! I'm a younger fan so I'm not too familiar with how all those guys did, but relative to the talent that was on hand and the hype/expectations of our team, I can't see how he can't get the vote. All those additions on offense as well as finishing top 10 in scoring back to back years and a promise to not put square pegs in round holes on defense when the regime did that exact thing...smh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lacoy38 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 I think Shaq is decent and wouldn’t mind him back at the right price . In my opinion between Shaq, Hughes and Murphy 1 of the 3 will be back and the DE on the other side will be a big name FA or high draft pick or combo of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art in PNS Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Makes sense to me. He played better last year but not worth 10+ M$$$$$. If he lights it up this year I'm sure he can be had for a reasonable contract . If he doesn't you avoid guaranteeing him that much $ which approaches Jerry Hughes $ with no where near the production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Dablitzkrieg said: I agree, he is average. I think some people blowing him off as "not good" is a bit of an overstatement. Explain how average can be good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Bad decision. Not catastrophic but still don't agree. Young player and improving. What is the downside risk? They have plenty of money. They are wasting more money on Murphy and Star. Look he is not a star. But he is a solid player. Can he be replaced. Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornette's Commentary Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Bad decision. Not catastrophic but still don't agree. Young player and improving. What is the downside risk? They have plenty of money. They are wasting more money on Murphy and Star. Look he is not a star. But he is a solid player. Can he be replaced. Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Except Sammy had real value. Shaq could get like a 5th at best. Yes, but nowhere near the amount that he ended up signing for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 hour ago, whatdrought said: Not surprising. He’s a holdover from the previous regime who hasn’t shown the new regime why he’s worth the raise. He can earn it this year and I’m sure we’ll be happy to pay him. The problem is, if he does earn it this year, he will be signing somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forward Progress Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 1 minute ago, FLFan said: The problem is, if he does earn it this year, he will be signing somewhere else. This is a good problem to have - this is where comp picks come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 This is a bad call. The only real risk is that he gets injured this year and the are forced to pay him next year. Guaranteed for injury, assuming he is injured at the start of the league year next year. Otherwise, they keep their options open. If he is lights out this year they are happy to pay him. If not, they cut him. Very shortsighted decision. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 I'm admittedly surprised about this, but I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of contracts and long term planning like Beane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Forward Progress said: This is a good problem to have - this is where comp picks come from. So in this scenario, that he performs very well, you want him, but he blows you off for other offers, you would rather have a comp pick? You would rather have a comp pick than an expereinecd high performing DE? Not saying Shaq will become that, just that if he does, he will be playing elsewhere. Poor use of assets in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 27 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said: Whaley wasn’t a strong enough leader to be a GM. He allowed himself to be cast aside and he also drafted horribly. I am glad he is gone. Even if we were to accept the premise that Whaley didn't have any say in that draft, which is laughable and at the very least he was in charge of the scouting and set up the draft board to determine the best players at each position. But just for shiznits and giggles, lets just say that Rex was in charge of the entire draft and Whaley had no to very little say, then it goes back to the point that I've been making for a while now, part of the job of an effective GM is to be able to sell your vision to ownership. Ownership has to believe in your gameplan, if they don't believe in your gameplan, then if you are a self-respecting and not desperate to have a GM-job-in-name then you shouldn't even accept those conditions and resign. Then to top it all off, if you did accept the diminished responsibility but you were the "GM", then it sets yourself up not just for failure but it hurts your GM prospects or other high level administrative positions in the league. Where is Whaley today? The XFL? You think if you were to have asked him 3 years ago what would he think if he knew that that he'd be fired as GM of the Bills, couldn't immediately get hired to any meaningful NFL exec position and had to settle to going to the XFL 3 years later, do you think that would have been almost worst case scenario? I think so. 33 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Is he aware that essentially the entire scouting staff that put in the work and setup the draft board for Shaq to be picked is no longer with the Bills? Asking for a friend 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornette's Commentary Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, FLFan said: So in this scenario, that he performs very well, you want him, but he blows you off for other offers, you would rather have a comp pick? You would rather have a comp pick than an expereinecd high performing DE? Not saying Shaq will become that, just that if he does, he will be playing elsewhere. Poor use of assets in my opinion. Please repeat after me: I, FLFan, take thee Ethan in Portland, to be my wedded wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo44 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, FLFan said: So in this scenario, that he performs very well, you want him, but he blows you off for other offers, you would rather have a comp pick? You would rather have a comp pick than an expereinecd high performing DE? Not saying Shaq will become that, just that if he does, he will be playing elsewhere. Poor use of assets in my opinion. There is no compelling reason to think he will ever be “high performing”. And, in the unlikely event that he becomes high performing in 2019 there is no compelling reason to think he will “blow off” the Bills. This is the smart move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forward Progress Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, FLFan said: So in this scenario, that he performs very well, you want him, but he blows you off for other offers, you would rather have a comp pick? You would rather have a comp pick than an expereinecd high performing DE? Not saying Shaq will become that, just that if he does, he will be playing elsewhere. Poor use of assets in my opinion. It simply isn't prudent to pay a player significantly more than their playing level, based on the hope that a player can play better in the future than they have in past four years. If Lawson is a rare player that can elevate his game significantly between year 4 and 5, then the Bills got this one wrong. If Lawson continues to be who he has been, then they got it right and have an extra $10M available in 2020 to sign a player who is more valuable than Shaq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 They made the right choice. I've been against the 5th year option for Shaq. There are countless guys in the NFL that can do what he can do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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