Nice game but Allen needs to pass

[Bongo]

I think he should take what the D gives him; run or pass. Otherwise he makes it easier on the D. If they are going to leave open running lanes, take them until they get sick of it. When they tighten up, it should open up the pass more. 

 

He still needs work on the shorter touch passes but having the run and long passes is nice at this point. He’s a work in progress.

[Fan in Chicago]

21 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Are you really comparing yesterday to a playoff game?  They are completely different teams with different rosters.  

It’s completely unanswerable.  Allen did only have 2 career 300 yards games in college against pretty crappy teams.

 

 

Jags still had a good defense so putting up 24 offensive points was impressive for such an undermanned Offense.

 

As for Allen, most such hypotheticals are by definition unanswerable. 

[Putin]

23 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

Great throw 35 times next week

I thought YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME !!!!

but I guess a win is not really a win unless you throw the ball 35 times for 300 yards !!! 

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, jrober38 said:

He would be better on KC, but he certainly wouldn't be Mahomes

 

Well right now probably not, but a year from now? It's possible. You have to remember Pat Mahomes himself wasn't Pat Mahomes last year. He played the final game of the season against a Broncos team that didn't care, and completed 22 of 35 passes for 284 yards 0 TDs and 1 INT. His passer rating was only 76.4 in that game. After a full offseason of development he's blowing up the score sheet. My point is it's too early to ask if Allen could do what Mahomes is doing, of course it is unlikely but so is what Mahomes has done.

[billsfan1959]

2 hours ago, jaybee said:

Josh completed eight passes.

 

When the story line is what a great running day a quarterback had what it really means is he did not do what is most important at the QB position. Throwing the football.

 

Tom Brady never was a running quarterback. Aaron Rodgers is not a running quarterback. Peyton Manning was not a running quarterback. These are some of the best quarterbacks of all time. They know how to play the position and throw the football.

 

Running the football and completing eight passes is not the stuff Championship quarterbacks are made of.

 

If Josh does not learn how to play his position in this league he will not last. He will run and he will get injured badly just like RG3 did.

 

Josh's performance in yesterday's victory was fairly similar to what Tyrod Taylor did when he was here and everyone on this forum wanted to run him out of town.

 

I realize my opinion is not popular on this topic but it is the way I see it and frankly I am not here to make friends, just to call them as I see them. Also, I hope Josh progresses. He has great athletic ability and if he can become an accurate passer we have something.

Perhaps you do not see so well

[C.Biscuit97]

23 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Well right now probably not, but a year from now? It's possible. You have to remember Pat Mahomes himself wasn't Pat Mahomes last year. He played the final game of the season against a Broncos team that didn't care, and completed 22 of 35 passes for 284 yards 0 TDs and 1 INT. His passer rating was only 76.4 in that game. After a full offseason of development he's blowing up the score sheet. My point is it's too early to ask if Allen could do what Mahomes is doing, of course it is unlikely but so is what Mahomes has done.

That is a higher passing total than Allen has had in any game. 

 

Im not even trying to knock Allen but imo, Mahomes is really, really good. 

34 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Jags still had a good defense so putting up 24 offensive points was impressive for such an undermanned Offense.

 

As for Allen, most such hypotheticals are by definition unanswerable. 

They are still a good D but not what they were last year.  They basically are giving up a touchdown more a game and seems to have quit.  But it was a good test.

Edited November 26, 2018 by C.Biscuit97

[CincyBillsFan]

6 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I don’t and think you are too easily dismiss how good Mahomes is.  Allen would definitely hit some bombs but because of his mechanics, he can’t make those passes consistently.  That’s why I wanted him to sit like Mahomes and not be forced in too early to work on those mechanics.  Mahomes was a 64% passer in college and is 67% in the pros.  Allen has never been higher than 56% on any level.

 

i know there are a million excuses and it’s great to see him make plays without being a consistent passer.  But for him to be the guy we need, he needs to win with his arm first then his legs.

Why?  First of all, Cam and Wilson were much superior passers than Allen/ Jackson right away.  Allen and Jackson are winning games with huge running plays and a few big passing plays.  But they are both below average nfl passers at this point. I really don’t see how this can be disputed.

 

To be clear I think Mahomes is a great QB.  He & Goff are the best of the young QB's (less then 5 years) in the league.   Also I didn't say Allen would be putting up Mahomes numbers I asked whether he would be having a couple of 300 yard games at KC and IMO the answer is yes.

 

As far as short passing accuracy goes Allen is good enough to dump the ball off to the Chief's TE & RB.  And who cares what these QB's accuracy was in college at this point.  Allen has shown that he's plenty accurate enough.

 

Allen is winning with his arms AND legs and at this point that's fine with me.  And while agree with you that Wilson was a better passer right out the gate IMO Cam was not.  Again to my old eyes Cam & Allen share a number of similar traits on the field - strong arms, athletic play, can kill you with their legs, a burning desire to win AND leadership.

[fansince88]

On 11/25/2018 at 5:06 PM, Niagara Dude said:

Great team win and Allen made some huge throws and ran for over 100yards,  end of the day i do not want my franchise QB focused on running the football.  For Allen to become a great franchise QB he needs to throw the ball and more plays to need to be called to throw the ball and not run.  This is a passing league, and ground and pound is for losers  the great teams pass for 300yards on weekly basis and we struggle to make it to 200 yards. Yes the receivers suck but we need to stay committed to becoming a pass first team.  Even finishing this season focused on passing the ball and establishing ourselves as a pass first team will help signing potential free agent WR'S.

 

 

Great first step on to the Allen train. Next you can watch the game and notice the drops and 60-80 yards worth of passes called back due to penalties 

[CincyBillsFan]

6 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

I don't. I think that's a ridiculous claim. 

 

Mahomes is a natural passer. 

 

Allen is currently just a really good athlete playing QB.

 

There's a huge difference. Mahomes isn't throwing WR screens into the turf like Allen did yesterday. 

 

Suggesting Allen would be putting up MVP #s on another team, when he's currently completing like 50% of his throws and throwing for like 150 yards a game is totally crazy. 

 

Again, I asked would he be throwing for 300 yards if he was on the Cheifs right now, not that he would be putting up HOF numbers.  There is a difference.

 

Funny how those of you who say Allen isn't a "natural" thrower because he put a WR screen pass into the turf ignore the several outstanding throws he did make.  I just don't get it.  Looking at Allen's entire body of passing work this season and he appears to be plenty accurate to me.  His issues have been reading the D and pocket awareness - both things that rookie QB's struggle with in the NFL.  And both things that can be learned through playing. 

[TheElectricCompany]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Well right now probably not, but a year from now? It's possible.

 

I think Allen could improve, but Mahomes is mastering chess, while Allen is learning how to play checkers. 

I don't know if he'll be able to pickup chess. 

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by TheElectricCompany

[greeneblitz]

omg, get over it, so sick of these guys complaining the Allen didn't pass enough, plain and simple, rookie QBs do not throw for 300 plus yards, if they're good they scrape and scrap yards any way that they can, break the pocket usually too soon, throw to first reads and so on, it's normal but as usual Bills fans would rather have the instant gratification of a veteran mediocre QB instead of dealing with a typical rookie QB growing pains.

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by greeneblitz

[Oldfan]

It’s better to not compare to Mahomes. That kid has 20 more touchdowns than Brady. He’s in debates with Brees, Luck, and Rodgers

 

No reason to compare Allen to any other QB except Tyrod, Peterman, and Anderson. When the dust settles we can compare him to other rookies, but even early success doesn’t guarantee future performance. Have to hope Allen will get better, and an offensive revamp in 2019 would help him immensely 

 

[The Now Moment]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

No.  Was that a trick question?

 

Really wasn't a question, more of a dumbfounded remark.

[Mr. WEO]

Come on, someone has to be this team's leading rusher.....

[Green Lightning]

On 11/25/2018 at 5:11 PM, Degenerate Mike in HHDS said:

Ummm he threw a lot of good pass's, Thompson dropped one and penalties killed a few, quit looking at the stats

At the end of the day the OP is correct. Allen has to pass more and have a far better completion percentage to be a long term franchise QB. That said, it's only a handful of games into his career. He's making progress,  Showed some progress in reading defenses and going through progressions.  Love that he is a dual threat,  I just don't want to see him get injured,  especially because he won't slide!

[26CornerBlitz]

I love it when a QB makes a throw like this under duress in the pocket by staring down the gun barrel to stand and deliver. Well done Josh Allen!

 

 

 

 

Too bad that 3rd and 15 conversion didn't count, but damn what a throw!

[billsfan89]

7 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Well right now probably not, but a year from now? It's possible. You have to remember Pat Mahomes himself wasn't Pat Mahomes last year. He played the final game of the season against a Broncos team that didn't care, and completed 22 of 35 passes for 284 yards 0 TDs and 1 INT. His passer rating was only 76.4 in that game. After a full offseason of development he's blowing up the score sheet. My point is it's too early to ask if Allen could do what Mahomes is doing, of course it is unlikely but so is what Mahomes has done.

 

Allen doesn't have to be Mahomes for this team to be successful in 2019 and beyond. If Allen in 2019 can be what Trubisky has been the past 5 or so games he has played I think the team will be successful. 

 

Mahomes is playing at an MVP level. His numbers are as good as any QB if not the best in the league and his team is 9-2. But the Chiefs put all their eggs into the offense not just with Mahomes but even when Smith was there.

 

The Chiefs didn't have the balanced approach in recent years, their defense while not as bad as they seem (Berry not being there hurts them a lot) is massively flawed. The Chiefs need a league best offense to win. The Bills in 2019 likely will not. 

 

The Bears had a good defense in 2017 and put some skill position talent around Their QB while adding Roquan Smith and Mack to the defense in an all in type move. They are a much more balanced team that just needs good QB play to win. 

 

Allen I doubt will ever have a season like Mahomes is having. But he doesn't need to toss 50 TDs to be a good franchise QB. Cam Newton has never tossed more than 35 TDs and Russell Wilson has never tossed more than 34 TDs. Both of those guys are legit franchise QBs that a team can win with consistently. So people have to adjust expectations.

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[HOUSE]

Running quarterbacks won't last in the NFL, even EJ Manhole was hurt sliding.

 

I waited the entire game for Sean McDermott to pull Josh Allen aside and give him a good tougue lashing but it never happened.

 

If this continues I doubt Josh Allen finishes the season

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

21 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Come on, someone has to be this team's leading rusher.....

 

 

...got Tolbert on speed dial??..........

[keepthefaith]

5 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Running quarterbacks won't last in the NFL, even EJ Manhole was hurt sliding.

 

I waited the entire game for Sean McDermott to pull Josh Allen aside and give him a good tougue lashing but it never happened.

 

If this continues I doubt Josh Allen finishes the season

 

 

 

He's taking risks for sure and odds are he'll get hurt if he doesn't learn to avoid contact better.  Gotta love the stiff arm he gave to #91 on the touchdown run. 

[hemma]

5 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Running quarterbacks won't last in the NFL, even EJ Manhole was hurt sliding.

 

I waited the entire game for Sean McDermott to pull Josh Allen aside and give him a good tougue lashing but it never happened.

 

If this continues I doubt Josh Allen finishes the season

 

 

 

Hard to say.  If he was doing this a few years ago, he might get split open from the top down,

but I think defenses are leery now of really laying into a QB -- even a running QB.

 

This may actually be the correct 'penalty climate' for him to run more and get away with minimal damage.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On 11/26/2018 at 5:52 PM, TheElectricCompany said:

 

I think Allen could improve, but Mahomes is mastering chess, while Allen is learning how to play checkers. 

I don't know if he'll be able to pickup chess. 

 

 

Downvoted

[LABILLBACKER]

On 11/25/2018 at 2:11 PM, Degenerate Mike in HHDS said:

Ummm he threw a lot of good pass's, Thompson dropped one and penalties killed a few, quit looking at the stats

You add these 3 throws and Josh throws for near 250. I have no problem him running as long as he's exhausted all throwing options. With time his scrambles will decline. 

[Roundybout]

26 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Im more than cool with his completion % being what it was on Sunday if he is averaging close to 20 yards per completion(I know a lot of that is a result from his 75 yarder to Foster) and picking up first downs and TDs with his legs.... he just needs to realize trying to run over defenders in this league is going to eventually get him hurt. He will learn. 

 

Who are you and what have you done with ScottLaw?!?

 

 

I jest 

[Jpsredemption]

Never in my life have I seen such an overreaction to 8 completed passes. 8 of 19 nonetheless. 

[Teddy KGB]

4 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

Never in my life have I seen such an overreaction to 8 completed passes. 8 of 19 nonetheless. 

 

You should try watching the games. 

 

Brady and Mariota couldn’t do squat vs the jags 

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[Stank_Nasty]

55 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

Never in my life have I seen such an overreaction to 8 completed passes. 8 of 19 nonetheless. 

If you watched the game and that is basically what you came out of it with, then you need to start watching a different sport. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[Jpsredemption]

28 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

If you watched the game and that is basically what you came out of it with, then you need to start watching a different sport. 

I did watch. I saw a great 75 yard touchdown pass and some nice runs. Am I supposed to be head over heels that this is our guy? No. 8/19, 160, 1-0. Again .. no.

[MJS]

On 11/25/2018 at 3:06 PM, Niagara Dude said:

Great team win and Allen made some huge throws and ran for over 100yards,  end of the day i do not want my franchise QB focused on running the football.  For Allen to become a great franchise QB he needs to throw the ball and more plays to need to be called to throw the ball and not run.  This is a passing league, and ground and pound is for losers  the great teams pass for 300yards on weekly basis and we struggle to make it to 200 yards. Yes the receivers suck but we need to stay committed to becoming a pass first team.  Even finishing this season focused on passing the ball and establishing ourselves as a pass first team will help signing potential free agent WR'S.

 

The line had a rough time stopping the Jags pass rush. We'll see what he does in future weeks against less talented defensive lines.

[Fan in Chicago]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Im more than cool with his completion % being what it was on Sunday if he is averaging close to 20 yards per completion(I know a lot of that is a result from his 75 yarder to Foster) and picking up first downs and TDs with his legs.... he just needs to realize trying to run over defenders in this league is going to eventually get him hurt. He will learn. 

Right - seeing him run maybe fun but he needs to avoid the hits and maybe slide a tad earlier if it means an avoided hit. 

[MJS]

4 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

I did watch. I saw a great 75 yard touchdown pass and some nice runs. Am I supposed to be head over heels that this is our guy? No. 8/19, 160, 1-0. Again .. no.

 

If you watched then you know multiple big time passes were called back due to oline penalties, a huge 30 yard pass was straight up dropped by the WR, and Allen threw the ball away smartly a few times, all hurting his completion percentage. There was some good football by him not captured in the box score or individual stats.

 

He had a good game against a very good defense. His team needed to help him more. He overcame a lot of obstacles, and yes, used his feet to do it on occasion.

 

But he absolutely needs to improve, as all rookies do.

[Fan in Chicago]

6 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

I did watch. I saw a great 75 yard touchdown pass and some nice runs. Am I supposed to be head over heels that this is our guy? No. 8/19, 160, 1-0. Again .. no.

But there is no harm in recognizing that the kid has moxie, doesnt appear flustered, is not making too many bone-headed mistakes and is picking up things pretty fast. Or do you have a hidden bias of him being a bad QB ?

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Right - seeing him run maybe fun but he needs to avoid the hits and maybe slide a tad earlier if it means an avoided hit. 

 

Eh, I think he did fine. He's got a big frame like Cam Newton.

 

Just think about this as well: if Allen doesn't escape the pocket and scramble on a lot of those plays, the pass rush gets to him and smashes him. The biggest hit he took Sunday was when he stood strong in the pocket and delivered the deep TD bomb to Foster. That was a brutal hit from 3 different defenders.

 

No matter how you play the game, you're going to get hit sometimes (and injured).

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Fan in Chicago said:

But there is no harm in recognizing that the kid has moxie, doesnt appear flustered, is not making too many bone-headed mistakes and is picking up things pretty fast. Or do you have a hidden bias of him being a bad QB ?

 

Or recognizing that there were 3-4 nice throws taken back because of penalties. Maybe another drop or two (I’m fuzzy on that). The point is, I’m not looking for greatness or perfection, just PROGRESS. That looked like progress to me. Before he goy hurt, he really needed some time off. It was all going too fast, and sliding down a dangerously slippery slope, in my eye. THIS looked better. It’s all I’m hoping for. 

[Jpsredemption]

7 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

But there is no harm in recognizing that the kid has moxie, doesnt appear flustered, is not making too many bone-headed mistakes and is picking up things pretty fast. Or do you have a hidden bias of him being a bad QB ?

No hidden bias. Love his attitude and toughness. I will wait until he displays accuracy and awareness on a consistent basis before I believe he can sustain success in the NFL. Quite rational if you ask me.

[Best Williams Available]

On 11/25/2018 at 4:24 PM, jaybee said:

He will be traded in three years and be a backup quarterback for a couple years and be out of the league by 2024. Probably sooner. He is an excellent athlete but a very bad quarterback.

 

I thought EJ Manual was already out of the league?!?!

[Fan in Chicago]

9 hours ago, MJS said:

 

 

No matter how you play the game, you're going to get hit sometimes (and injured).

I recognize that his scrambling (and now rushing) skills are a big asset. But him being the crown jewel, I would rather forego a first down if it helps keep him healthy. 

9 hours ago, Jpsredemption said:

No hidden bias. Love his attitude and toughness. I will wait until he displays accuracy and awareness on a consistent basis before I believe he can sustain success in the NFL. Quite rational if you ask me.

Of course we need to wait before we proclaim him to be our long term answer. But as Augie and several others have said, all you look for in a rookie is continued progress. It's undeniable that he is showing that and, last Sunday , it was against a good defense. 

[Teddy KGB]

37 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I mostly agree.

 

The difference is Tyrod is a 9 year vet and Josh is an extremely raw rookie who just finished his 6th start of his career. 

 

Still, it is comical that people are praising Josh for those runs and would absolutely destroy the "running back playing QB" in Tyrod for doing the same thing. 

 

Because Tyrod couldn’t do that vs Jax perhaps