Nice game but Allen needs to pass

[TheElectricCompany]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Allen is hardly a finished product, and yesterday was only one game. But he should have had more completions on deeper throws than he did; drops affected his numbers. His deep accuracy yesterday was remarkably good, and his arm strength is something every team will have to game plan against. He has the strongest arm I have ever seen, and it's not even really a close call. He was throwing 50-yards-in-the-air throws on a freaking rope.

 

I don't think we've seen enough deep balls from Josh to make that claim.

Of course he's got arm talent, but accuracy is the key ingredient. 

Mike Vick is my #1, a true "flick of the wrist" and the ball was gone. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by TheElectricCompany

[Victory Formation]

I'd like to see the RBs used as receivers more, they aren't picking up yards on the ground but how about through the air? Make Allen's life easier, move the chains and pickup easy yards. Great way to boost his numbers.

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

I don't think we've seen enough deep balls from Josh to make that claim.

Of course he's got arm talent, but accuracy is the key ingredient. 

Mike Vick is my #1, a true "flick of the wrist" and the ball was gone. 

Not on a rope like Allen, though. Allen is capable of throwing frozen ropes 60 yards downfield. I've never seen a qb who could do that, and I include Jeff George (who had a stronger arm than Vick) when I say this. There is a reason why a qb from a nothing school who had only ok college stats was seriously under consideration for #1 overall.

[TheElectricCompany]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

There is a reason why a qb from a nothing school who had only ok college stats was seriously under consideration for #1 overall.

 

As discussed pre-draft, there are still plenty of scouting personnel who focus more on physical tools, and what a player could be if they are in their "system" , versus what they have actually done. 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, TheElectricCompany said:

 

As discussed pre-draft, there are still plenty of scouting personnel who focus more on physical tools, and what a player could be if they are in their "system" , versus what they have actually done. 

Oh, I know. The jury on Allen is still waaaaaaaaay out. 

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Not on a rope like Allen, though. Allen is capable of throwing frozen ropes 60 yards downfield. I've never seen a qb who could do that, and I include Jeff George (who had a stronger arm than Vick) when I say this. There is a reason why a qb from a nothing school who had only ok college stats was seriously under consideration for #1 overall.

Agreed Allen has a cannon.  But what you said is what terrifies me about Allen.  He seems like a good dude who is a hard worker.  But I rarely have seen a guy have more excuses made for him than him.  He helped us win a game so I’m not trying to crush him.  But in a league with 50 point games, we won with 8 completions.  As for the drops,  which there were, the Bills only have 10 this year.  http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232

 

his physical skills are awesome.  This regime did a terrible job surrounding him with weapons.  But at some point, you need to be better than a 52% passer.  And he has never been higher than 56% on any level.  At some point, we just have to admit he needs to get more accurate.  

[26CornerBlitz]

On 11/21/2018 at 3:52 PM, 26CornerBlitz said:

 Greater pre/post snap recognition along with better poise, improved pocket presence, the ability to manipulate coverage and make accurate throws with touch, timing, and anticipation.  All signs that the game is slowing down for him. 

 

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Agreed Allen has a cannon.  But what you said is what terrifies me about Allen.  He seems like a good dude who is a hard worker.  But I rarely have seen a guy have more excuses made for him than him.  He helped us win a game so I’m not trying to crush him.  But in a league with 50 point games, we won with 8 completions.  As for the drops,  which there were, the Bills only have 10 this year.  http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232

 

his physical skills are awesome.  This regime did a terrible job surrounding him with weapons.  But at some point, you need to be better than a 52% passer.  And he has never been higher than 56% on any level.  At some point, we just have to admit he needs to get more accurate.  

Oh, absolutely, and the jury is still out. But amidst the negatives, the positives are VERY positive: blazing foot speed for a qb, ideal size, lightning quick release, amazing arm, and -- no small thing -- a ton of moxie. He's also bright too. They have to stick with him for the long haul, and we fans need to be patient. 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[jrober38]

48 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

This is easier said then done with a QB that has the arm strength and medium/long pass accuracy that Allen has.  Sure, teams can adjust to stop the planned QB runs but that will open up other opportunities downfield.  

 

Serious question for folks, if you put Allen on KC right now do you think he would be throwing fro 300 yards?  I do. 

 

I don't. I think that's a ridiculous claim. 

 

Mahomes is a natural passer. 

 

Allen is currently just a really good athlete playing QB.

 

There's a huge difference. Mahomes isn't throwing WR screens into the turf like Allen did yesterday. 

 

Suggesting Allen would be putting up MVP #s on another team, when he's currently completing like 50% of his throws and throwing for like 150 yards a game is totally crazy. 

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

I literally have no idea what your point is. 

 

Thats what makes this so incoherent.  You haven't made a coherent argument.  I can't event construct one from what you have said.  

 

 

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

 Sure, he didn't do it in one game last year

 

9/20/18.    19 yards 

1/7/18.       134 yards zero TD’s one int 

12/3/17.      65 yards zero TD’s one int 

11/12/17.    56 yards zero TD’s one int 

10/8/17.       166 yards 1 td 1 int 

9/7/17.          125 yards zero TD’s 

 

That’s only one game if you enjoy lying ? 

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I don't. I think that's a ridiculous claim. 

 

Mahomes is a natural passer. 

 

Allen is currently just a really good athlete playing QB.

 

There's a huge difference. Mahomes isn't throwing WR screens into the turf like Allen did yesterday. 

 

Suggesting Allen would be putting up MVP #s on another team, when he's currently completing like 50% of his throws and throwing for like 150 yards a game is totally crazy. 

 

What’s crazy is your continued bashing of Allen.    

[jrober38]

3 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

 

9/20/18.    19 yards 

1/7/18.       134 yards zero TD’s one int 

12/3/17.      65 yards zero TD’s one int 

11/12/17.    56 yards zero TD’s one int 

10/8/17.       166 yards 1 td 1 int 

9/7/17.          125 yards zero TD’s 

 

That’s only one game if you enjoy lying ? 

 

What’s crazy is your continued bashing of Allen.    

 

Where did I bash Allen?

 

It's completely insane to think Allen would be throwing for 300 yards a game on a different team. 

 

That's one of the most ridiculous claims I've heard on this board in ages. 

 

Allen played a good game, and led his team to a win. But saying he'd be producing the numbers Pat Mahomes is putting up is seriously just crazy talk. 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Where did I bash Allen?

 

It's completely insane to think Allen would be throwing for 300 yards a game on a different team. 

 

That's one of the most ridiculous claims I've heard on this board in ages. 

 

Allen played a good game, and led his team to a win. But saying he'd be producing the numbers Pat Mahomes is putting up is seriously just crazy talk. 

Folks, this is the guy who would have traded an entire draft to get Jameis Winston.  Take his opinions with a large grain of salt.

 

Allen threw one really bad pass yesterday - the WR screen.  And what does our Winston worshipper bring up?  You guess it - that one pass.

 

It's either hysterical or sad t red this stuff.  Not sure which.

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Folks, this is the guy who would have traded an entire draft to get Jameis Winston.  Take his opinions with a large grain of salt.

 

Allen threw one really bad pass yesterday - the WR screen.  And what does our Winston worshipper bring up?  You guess it - that one pass.

 

It's either hysterical or sad t red this stuff.  Not sure which.

 

8 of 19 and he threw one bad pass? The standards are so low on this board. 

 

Allen managed the game well, but he still leaves a ton to be desired as a passer. 

 

The fact that you guys are incapable of allowing anyone to be critical of him is pathetic. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

13 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

 

9/20/18.    19 yards 

1/7/18.       134 yards zero TD’s one int 

12/3/17.      65 yards zero TD’s one int 

11/12/17.    56 yards zero TD’s one int 

10/8/17.       166 yards 1 td 1 int 

9/7/17.          125 yards zero TD’s 

 

That’s only one game if you enjoy lying ? 

 

What’s crazy is your continued bashing of Allen.    

 

One of those games is not the bills. 

 

The other is the snow game that TT didn't play in.  

 

Is the point that Allen had bad games?  

 

My point was only that Tyrod consistently would give you less than 200 yards and a bunch of rushing yards.  None of what you are posting disproves that.  

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

8 of 19 and he threw one bad pass? The standards are so low on this board. 

 

Allen managed the game well, but he still leaves a ton to be desired as a passer. 

 

The fact that you guys are incapable of allowing anyone to be critical of him is pathetic. 

The fact that you think you are the arbiter of what constitutes a quality NFL QB is the pathetic thing.

 

I said already, he has a long way to go, but he had a good game yesterday.  Why can we not be happy about that?  More to the point, why can you not be happy about that?  Is it because it makes your opinion of him look erroneous?

[jrober38]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

The fact that you think you are the arbiter of what constitutes a quality NFL QB is the pathetic thing.

 

I said already, he has a long way to go, but he had a good game yesterday.  Why can we not be happy about that?  More to the point, why can you not be happy about that?  Is it because it makes your opinion of him look erroneous?

 

What the hell are you talking about?

 

How do you know if I'm happy or not? Yesterday's game was great. The second half was fun to watch and the whole team showed great heart. 

 

Just because I say Allen has a long way to go as a passer, you immediately get triggered and freak out. 

 

Sad. 

[Teddy KGB]

3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

One of those games is not the bills. 

 

The other is the snow game that TT didn't play in.  

 

Is the point that Allen had bad games?  

 

My point was only that Tyrod consistently would give you less than 200 yards and a bunch of rushing yards.  None of what you are posting disproves that.  

 

Snow game was 12/10.      Really, use google for everyone’s sake 

 

The “one bad game for Taylor” is a false statement that we can move past.

 

Good win, Go Bills, no reason to argue any further. 

 

Taylor led us to 3 points, Allen led us to 24.   It is what it is my friend.    

 

On to Miami 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

What the hell are you talking about?

 

How do you know if I'm happy or not? Yesterday's game was great. The second half was fun to watch and the whole team showed great heart. 

 

Just because I say Allen has a long way to go as a passer, you immediately get triggered and freak out. 

 

Sad. 

What I'm talking about is simple.  Your continued epistles about QBing in the NFL, as if you have some greater insight than the next guy.

 

Allen would do better in KC undoubtedly given their WR corps.  How much better who knows.  H has a way to go.  But he clearly showed yesterday that he is progressing.  But what was your statement? To paraphrease, he's an athlete trying to play QB.

 

Your bias is ridiculous.  It is clear you cannot be objective because you decided when he was drafted that he wouldn't work out, and now your comments are all slanted towards trying to justify that pre-conceived notion. 

 

 

[Teddy KGB]

23 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Where did I bash Allen?

 

It's completely insane to think Allen would be throwing for 300 yards a game on a different team. 

 

That's one of the most ridiculous claims I've heard on this board in ages. 

 

Allen played a good game, and led his team to a win. But saying he'd be producing the numbers Pat Mahomes is putting up is seriously just crazy talk. 

 

You've been a super Allen pessimist this whole season from the posts I’ve read??‍♂️. 

 

Allen would average at least 100 more yards per game with Kareem Hunt ripping off gain after gain and an OL that lets him pass to Kelce, Sammy, Hunt, and Hill right ? 

 

Thats not unfathomable is it ? 

[jrober38]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

What I'm talking about is simple.  Your continued epistles about QBing in the NFL, as if you have some greater insight than the next guy.

 

Allen would do better in KC undoubtedly given their WR corps.  How much better who knows.  H has a way to go.  But he clearly showed yesterday that he is progressing.  But what was your statement? To paraphrease, he's an athlete trying to play QB.

 

Your bias is ridiculous.  It is clear you cannot be objective because you decided when he was drafted that he wouldn't work out, and now your comments are all slanted towards trying to justify that pre-conceived notion. 

 

 

 

Like I said, you're completely triggered about the smallest remark.

 

Boo hoo. Someone said something mean about Allen. So sad. 

 

I agree with what you said. He would be better on KC, but he certainly wouldn't be Mahomes, but because I said something critical, there you go again completely flying off the handle, incapable of taking any criticism directed at your crush. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Snow game was 12/10.      Really, use google for everyone’s sake 

 

The “one bad game for Taylor” is a false statement that we can move past.

 

Good win, Go Bills, no reason to argue any further. 

 

Taylor led us to 3 points, Allen led us to 24.   It is what it is my friend.    

 

On to Miami 

 

 

 

You got me, I was wrong.  I did google it, but for some reason the Colts game popped up.  

 

All the same, you are citing to a few poor outings as a reason for what...exactly?  

 

None of what you are saying disproves my point.  Tyrod will get you less than 200 passing and a few scrambles, just like Allen gave us yesterday.  

 

Do you not see how lost in the minutia you are? You are just speaking gibberish and still not making a point! 

 

[dakrider]

Ben Roethlisberger had 462 YDS, 1 TD, 2 INTS, but lost because he threw a interception in the endzone right at the end of the game.   All the stats in the world don't win games but big mistakes can definitely lose games.   I went and looked that John Elway first year he had a 47.5% completion pct.  and many of his years only avg. about 56%.  Cam Newton completion % this year so far is almost 70% and the Panthers are 6-5.  I'm really not sure why so many people are obsessed with completion percentage.  

 

So THIS was the week that Josh Allen should have been the starting Bills QB,  not week 2.  And rookie QB's can learn how to prepare for games sitting on the bench for awhile.  
As far as Allen running the ball, if he sees a wide open field in front of him he should definitely take off.  But they should not run him twice like that at the goal line either.   Your NFL QB should not be your feature running back in games!  3rd and long in the NFL is hard for all teams and its tough when your top 2 running backs only get 60 yards in the game.  Its also tough for a QB to get much rhythm passing in games when there's so many penalties and botched plays.  Bills offense is too herky jerky this year, part of that is the QB play but a lot of it is just the overall team play.  The Bills offense is definitely not a well oiled machine. 

 

[Teddy KGB]

6 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

You got me, I was wrong.  I did google it, but for some reason the Colts game popped up.  

 

All the same, you are citing to a few poor outings as a reason for what...exactly?  

 

None of what you are saying disproves my point.  Tyrod will get you less than 200 passing and a few scrambles, just like Allen gave us yesterday.  

 

Do you not see how lost in the minutia you are? You are just speaking gibberish and still not making a point! 

 

 

K, Taylor does the “same things” as Allen 

 

These same things yielded a positive 21 point difference when the same things occurred with Allen>Taylor for some reason 

 

The only gibberish is you not understanding what the number one stands for ??. 

 

Allen’s got a bright future with a little progression and some reinforcements on the line.     go Bills 

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[Jrb1979]

18 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

He will get there it takes time . He had a lot of great throws today and some were dropped. I only saw a couple of bad passes.

 

We don't need to be a throw first team, balance is always best.

 

 

Balance is not necessarily best. Look at the top teams in the league. They throw first most of the time. Being a run first team doesn't win much in this league anymore. 

[oldmanfan]

28 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Like I said, you're completely triggered about the smallest remark.

 

Boo hoo. Someone said something mean about Allen. So sad. 

 

I agree with what you said. He would be better on KC, but he certainly wouldn't be Mahomes, but because I said something critical, there you go again completely flying off the handle, incapable of taking any criticism directed at your crush. 

So my saying he had a good game but has a ways to go means he's my crush?  Hysterical.  You can't accept your preconceived notion could be wrong.

 

How is Jameis doing, by the way?

[Augie]

......and when he does run, he needs to be smarter about it. Slide sooner, step out of bounds, etc. He had a nice long run up the right side and should have stepped OB before the hit, but instead ended up landing on his shoulder. An extra yard didn’t really matter there. That was unnecessary and could lead to more time holding the clipboard. 

[jrober38]

39 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

So my saying he had a good game but has a ways to go means he's my crush?  Hysterical.  You can't accept your preconceived notion could be wrong.

 

How is Jameis doing, by the way?

 

He had a great game yesterday. 

 

300+ yards, a couple TDs, 76% completions, and a win. 

[jaybee]

Josh completed eight passes.

 

When the story line is what a great running day a quarterback had what it really means is he did not do what is most important at the QB position. Throwing the football.

 

Tom Brady never was a running quarterback. Aaron Rodgers is not a running quarterback. Peyton Manning was not a running quarterback. These are some of the best quarterbacks of all time. They know how to play the position and throw the football.

 

Running the football and completing eight passes is not the stuff Championship quarterbacks are made of.

 

If Josh does not learn how to play his position in this league he will not last. He will run and he will get injured badly just like RG3 did.

 

Josh's performance in yesterday's victory was fairly similar to what Tyrod Taylor did when he was here and everyone on this forum wanted to run him out of town.

 

I realize my opinion is not popular on this topic but it is the way I see it and frankly I am not here to make friends, just to call them as I see them. Also, I hope Josh progresses. He has great athletic ability and if he can become an accurate passer we have something.

[Zerovoltz]

21 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

I don't give a crap about Allen's stats (pretty sure neither does he).  We only care about scoreboard, and this kid is a winner.  

 

 

21 hours ago, NewEra said:

He needs to continue to collect W’s.  That’s all.

 

You traded the QB who won enough to break the drought.  

20 hours ago, BillsRdue said:

If my QB can make 45 yd runs, it's just as good as a 45yd pass in my book.

Tim Tebow and Lamar Jackson approve of this message

 

3 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

You've been a super Allen pessimist this whole season from the posts I’ve read??‍♂️. 

 

Allen would average at least 100 more yards per game with Kareem Hunt ripping off gain after gain and an OL that lets him pass to Kelce, Sammy, Hunt, and Hill right ? 

 

Thats not unfathomable is it ? 

 

These posts suggesting that just anyone would be lighting it up for KC continue to permeate this board.  Alex Smith couldn’t sniff what Mahomes has done with the same roster.  

 

Keep in in mind KC is averaging ONE more pass attempt per game and ONE less rush attempt per game compared to last year.  Mahomes has been that much better running the offense.  

 

And keep in mind we are on our 3rd center and 3rd RG, and all three of the C, LG and RG are castoffs from......Cleveland.  Mahomes hasn’t had these great clean pockets to stand in....far from it.

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

 

 

You traded the QB who won enough to break the drought.  

Tim Tebow and Lamar Jackson approve of this message

 

 

These posts suggesting that just anyone would be lighting it up for KC continue to permeate this board.  Alex Smith couldn’t sniff what Mahomes has done with the same roster.  

 

Keep in in mind KC is averaging ONE more pass attempt per game and ONE less rush attempt per game compared to last year.  Mahomes has been that much better running the offense.  

 

And keep in mind we are on our 3rd center and 3rd RG, and all three of the C, LG and RG are castoffs from......Cleveland.  Mahomes hasn’t had these great clean pockets to stand in....far from it.

So what???  

[Zerovoltz]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

So what???  

It’s a counter point to the argument Josh Allen would be posting Mahomes numbers if he were in KC and that he’d be doing so because of the “great” line and the great supporting cast.

 

i would agree Allen would look better in KC but nothing close to Mahomes and probably not all that much different than he looks now.

 

At some point the elephant ? in the room (completion pct) has to improve markedly or the kid won’t last long term.  

 

 

[NewEra]

Just now, Zerovotlz said:

It’s a counter point to the argument Josh Allen would be posting Mahomes numbers if he were in KC and that he’d be doing so because of the “great” line and the great supporting cast.

 

i would agree Allen would look better in KC but nothing close to Mahomes and probably not all that much different than he looks now.

 

At some point the elephant ? in the room (completion pct) has to improve markedly or the kid won’t last long term.  

 

 

Not sure why you quoted me and said that though.  Doesn’t make sense.  My comment really has nothing to do with that.  Like your trying to pick a fight with a guy that looks at you and says hi

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[ColoradoBills]

I know a lot of you guys will argue JA stats for the rest of this year. 

Next week the Bills play the Fish and they have a bad rushing defense and not that great of a pass defense.

 

I think this will show us all more of what JA is capable or not capable of than this past JAX game.

His "stats" SHOULD be much better.

I can't wait to see how it goes.

[Teddy KGB]

31 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said:

 

 

 

You traded the QB who won enough to break the drought.  

Tim Tebow and Lamar Jackson approve of this message

 

 

These posts suggesting that just anyone would be lighting it up for KC continue to permeate this board.  Alex Smith couldn’t sniff what Mahomes has done with the same roster.  

 

Keep in in mind KC is averaging ONE more pass attempt per game and ONE less rush attempt per game compared to last year.  Mahomes has been that much better running the offense.  

 

And keep in mind we are on our 3rd center and 3rd RG, and all three of the C, LG and RG are castoffs from......Cleveland.  Mahomes hasn’t had these great clean pockets to stand in....far from it.

 

I said 100 more yards per game for Allen is unfathomable with all the chiefs weapons?

 

  I Have no idea why you’ve quoted me here 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[Fan in Chicago]

13 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said:

It’s a counter point to the argument Josh Allen would be posting Mahomes numbers if he were in KC and that he’d be doing so because of the “great” line and the great supporting cast.

 

i would agree Allen would look better in KC but nothing close to Mahomes and probably not all that much different than he looks now.

 

At some point the elephant ? in the room (completion pct) has to improve markedly or the kid won’t last long term.  

 

 

At no point did anyone make the ridiculous claim that Allen would post Mahomes numbers if with the Chiefs. The question was -can Allen throw for 300 yards with the Chiefs? That question is not too crazy to think about. But we are in agreement that his completion percent has to go up. He also needs to run less to protect himself

[C.Biscuit97]

4 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

K, Taylor does the “same things” as Allen 

 

These same things yielded a positive 21 point difference when the same things occurred with Allen>Taylor for some reason 

 

The only gibberish is you not understanding what the number one stands for ??. 

 

Allen’s got a bright future with a little progression and some reinforcements on the line.     go Bills 

 

 

 

Are you really comparing yesterday to a playoff game?  They are completely different teams with different rosters.  

Just now, Fan in Chicago said:

At no point did anyone make the ridiculous claim that Allen would post Mahomes numbers if with the Chiefs. The question was -can Allen throw for 300 yards with the Chiefs? That question is not too crazy to think about. But we are in agreement that his completion percent has to go up. He also needs to run less to protect himself

It’s completely unanswerable.  Allen did only have 2 career 300 yards games in college against pretty crappy teams.

 

 

[Kangaxx]

I love this thread. It's really easy to find out what users I should block.