Whaley deserves credit

[fansince88]

 

Bullcrap. They KEPT Whaley till AFTER the draft. EVERYONE in the NFL thought that was the most unusual firing. There's only ONE REASON for this move - they respected his talent evaluation. Your logic does not even begin to hold. 2017 draft is Whaley's work.

Disagree

[baskingridgebillsfan]

Whaley is a good talent evalutater . I get his public speaking skills were not great. that said, he really never go to run the thing . His coaches were picked for him , and who knows what else was done behind the scences .

[mjt328]

Doug Whaley did a decent job at drafting. Not really bad like some people want to claim. Not great like others want to say. Decent.

 

It's really hard to judge a GM when the team is constantly changing schemes. He drafted Preston Brown for a 4-3 defense. He drafted Reggie Ragland for a 3-4 defense. One player has been inconsistent because of systems changing. One player was traded before hitting the field because of systems changing. You can find examples like this throughout his entire tenure at One Bills Drive.

 

If fans are honest with themselves, Whaley made some pretty good moves here. But he is always going to be criticized for the foolish Sammy Watkins trade, for attaching himself to EJ Manuel's career for some inexplicable reason, and the bizarre news conference after Rex Ryan was fired. Whaley also never seemed to work well with Buffalo's head coaches (he never really got the chance to hire one by himself), which is a recipe for dysfunction in the front office.

 

His time here wasn't a disaster. It wasn't a success. It was somewhere in the middle, and it's hard to blame the Pegulas for deciding to move on.

[Rico]

Our 2017 draft class, especially White, is looking strong and is a credit to Whaley, the prime talent evaluator for that draft class. One often overlooked (and brilliant) move was one Whaley pulled off towards the end of 2016. He signs Logan Thomas off Detroit practice squad, and to do so he had to add him to the Bills 53 man roster. All based on potential; the guy had never played tight end. The potential Whaley saw last year payed off big time last Sunday. In the years to come, Thomas will evolve into a pro bowl type tight end

Only a matter of time before Lil Doug will be back in the league as GM, Ive also read that on this board. Just like Belichick, second time will be the charm.

[yungmack]

I thought Whaley did a good job assembling talent. I think there were some errors in contracts (specifically no out in Dareus' for suspension). In general though Whaley wasn't the problem. He worked with Rex Ryan; that's a death sentence for any GM.

Whaley didn't do contracts. Most GMs don't.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

No

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

Your right. it was not just his drafts but the way he could find a player that was either not drafted or a player that was considered a bust and get them on the bills and all of a sudden are now pro bowl players. Whaley will be missed and don't forget he was the one that signed Hyde, and Poyer.

[billsfan89]

Doug Whaley did a decent job at drafting. Not really bad like some people want to claim. Not great like others want to say. Decent.

 

It's really hard to judge a GM when the team is constantly changing schemes. He drafted Preston Brown for a 4-3 defense. He drafted Reggie Ragland for a 3-4 defense. One player has been inconsistent because of systems changing. One player was traded before hitting the field because of systems changing. You can find examples like this throughout his entire tenure at One Bills Drive.

 

If fans are honest with themselves, Whaley made some pretty good moves here. But he is always going to be criticized for the foolish Sammy Watkins trade, for attaching himself to EJ Manuel's career for some inexplicable reason, and the bizarre news conference after Rex Ryan was fired. Whaley also never seemed to work well with Buffalo's head coaches (he never really got the chance to hire one by himself), which is a recipe for dysfunction in the front office.

 

His time here wasn't a disaster. It wasn't a success. It was somewhere in the middle, and it's hard to blame the Pegulas for deciding to move on.

 

Whaley was an OK GM in my opinion. I think the scheme changes certainly didn't help his track record but he made some bad picks here and there as he also made some good ones too. Whaley as a drafter was mediocre but his best talent was the pro-personnel side where he was able to some fairly good work.

 

The McCoy trade, signing Tyrod, addressing the tight end position with Charles Clay, Zach Brown one year deal, signing InCog and then resigning him, Corey Graham, Brandon Spikes, keeping Jerry Hughes (I also think the original Hughes trade happened weeks before he became GM), and even this past off-season he was still in charge when they signed Hyde and Proyer.

 

There were other smaller depth moves that he made that also were much more productive than they should have been. Overall I think that even if his drafting left a lot to be desired his moves on the pro side were good. I think he grades out as an average GM. Glad McD and Beane are here (You want your coach and GM on the same page) but I can't think of Whaley as a disaster.

Edited October 24, 2017 by billsfan89

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Your right. it was not just his drafts but the way he could find a player that was either not drafted or a player that was considered a bust and get them on the bills and all of a sudden are now pro bowl players. Whaley will be missed and don't forget he was the one that signed Hyde, and Poyer.

Yeah we are really missing him with all his players we cut and traded. And poyer and Hyde were signed because McDermott wanted them. You are really out of touch with what is going on and have some weird infatuation with Whaley, who couldn't find a QB to save his life.

[RoyBatty is alive]

 

Bullcrap. They KEPT Whaley till AFTER the draft. EVERYONE in the NFL thought that was the most unusual firing. There's only ONE REASON for this move - they respected his talent evaluation. Your logic does not even begin to hold. 2017 draft is Whaley's work.

No not at all. I think it is very reasonable to assume it was too close to the draft to fire Whaley, months of preparation potentially down the drain.

 

And what do you men the "NFL" thought it was a most unusal firing, you mean some media talking heads that relish the dramatic.

[papazoid]

McD had final say over last draft.

 

McD and Andy Reid had that trade scenario worked out before draft day.

 

i'm sure whaley had plenty of input.....he just couldn't pull the trigger on anything until McD gave his blessing....I mean a "collaborative" decision was reached.

[Dr. K]

Doug Whaley did a decent job at drafting. Not really bad like some people want to claim. Not great like others want to say. Decent.

 

It's really hard to judge a GM when the team is constantly changing schemes. He drafted Preston Brown for a 4-3 defense. He drafted Reggie Ragland for a 3-4 defense. One player has been inconsistent because of systems changing. One player was traded before hitting the field because of systems changing. You can find examples like this throughout his entire tenure at One Bills Drive.

 

If fans are honest with themselves, Whaley made some pretty good moves here. But he is always going to be criticized for the foolish Sammy Watkins trade, for attaching himself to EJ Manuel's career for some inexplicable reason, and the bizarre news conference after Rex Ryan was fired. Whaley also never seemed to work well with Buffalo's head coaches (he never really got the chance to hire one by himself), which is a recipe for dysfunction in the front office.

 

His time here wasn't a disaster. It wasn't a success. It was somewhere in the middle, and it's hard to blame the Pegulas for deciding to move on.

This

[Bill_with_it]

Whaley didn't do contracts. Most GMs don't.

Whaley himself stated that he approved all contracts.

[Kirby Jackson]

Whaley didn't do contracts. Most GMs don't.

He was certainly involved though.

[May Day 10]

Whaley was bad overall.

 

He does seem to have some good attributes, and was probably somewhat of a victim of the organizational "group think" that took place.... although, him landing that position was a result of his willingness to work with the "group think" which makes him complicit. I also don't think he is wired to run an effective football program from the top, and his inability to get along with coaches was catastrophe, and media missteps bad.

 

For years, decisions were made from murky places. Nobody could put their finger on it. Was it Wilson, Pegula, Brandon, Jauron, Overdorf, etc... nobody could really assign blame and people/fans/media would assign blame or absolve it based on their predetermined positions (such as giving Whaley credit for this draft, but absolving him from "Nix's last draft". Whenever the heat got too much for the Bills to handle, they would just throw another log on the fire and outsource all the blame, whether it was Donahoe, Levy, Nix, Marrone, Jauron, Gailey, Wilson himself, Brandon himself, etc... This management (I suspect has been driven from Brandon and Overdorf) has failed over and over again.

 

 

Now, I it seems that ownership has truly handed over the reins of the franchise as well as accountability to McDermott and Beane. To me that is healthy, and it probably marginalizes the numerous voices from past management. They can craft their cohesive vision for a football team. I like how detail oriented and positive McDermott is. They are going to get the right personalities in, and McDermott is going to show them how to prepare. I still think this season will fall into the crapper eventually, mainly due to depth and not enough weapons on offense, but I am still very encouraged that these guys will get this team into the top third or so of the league on a perennial basis

[Scott7975]

Whaley didn't do contracts. Most GMs don't.

But they do set player/position values and approve contracts.

[The Frankish Reich]

Our 2017 draft class, especially White, is looking strong and is a credit to Whaley, the prime talent evaluator for that draft class. One often overlooked (and brilliant) move was one Whaley pulled off towards the end of 2016. He signs Logan Thomas off Detroit practice squad, and to do so he had to add him to the Bills 53 man roster. All based on potential; the guy had never played tight end. The potential Whaley saw last year payed off big time last Sunday. In the years to come, Thomas will evolve into a pro bowl type tight end

Is "too soon to say" still allowed in this world of hot takes? It's taken me 37 years to decide that Jimmy Carter really want that bad a president after all: inflation finally brought under control through his appointment of Volcker to the Fed (continued under Reagan) military buildup (continued under Reagan) in response to Soviet aggression in Afghanistan that prove essential to the collapse of the USSR, deregulating air travel, making it affordable to the masses (and, umm, miserable for all) ... I've gone from "among the worst ever" to a solid B/B- in my assessment.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Our 2017 draft class, especially White, is looking strong and is a credit to Whaley, the prime talent evaluator for that draft class. One often overlooked (and brilliant) move was one Whaley pulled off towards the end of 2016. He signs Logan Thomas off Detroit practice squad, and to do so he had to add him to the Bills 53 man roster. All based on potential; the guy had never played tight end. The potential Whaley saw last year payed off big time last Sunday. In the years to come, Thomas will evolve into a pro bowl type tight end

 

NOPE. Can't read that without busting out laughing. You mean to tell me that the draft he leaves suddenly after we found all these really good players?

 

It's not Whaley's draft... he was NEVER this successful!!!!

[TheFunPolice]

Like most things in life it's not cut and dry. Whaley did some nice things here and there but overall I think he's more suited to being director of pro personnel than a GM.

 

That doesn't mean he doesn't have value in the league or that he's totally awful. He just should not be a GM. Never seemed to have a good understanding of value.

Edited October 24, 2017 by TheFunPolice

[gobillsatthebeach]

Who made the decision to hire Dumb and Dumber to coach in his last two years? Is that on him or the owner?

[TheFunPolice]

Incognito and Tyrod were 100% Rex

 

Does he deserve credit? What's the point, really?

 

This is the 2017 Bills

Edited October 24, 2017 by TheFunPolice

[White Linen]

There's times when our mindset as a fanbase is as bad as the teams we've had. Who cares to think about someone getting credit who's no longer a part of the organization?

[Foreigner]

I am not going to bother reading the other 61 replies to this, but when Whaley gets another GM job, then start this thread

over. Until then, which I predict will be never, you are insulting all the intelligent people on this board.

[BmarvB]

Many of those Whaley guys who are not on the team are starting for other teams.

He did bring some good value players. He wasn't as bad as so many haters try to make him out to be. He just missed on some players in the draft even though there were a couple of hits.

[BuffBillsForLife]

Will Whaley fans ever give it up? I can't wait to read threads on here 5 years from now talking about how Whaley is to thank for laying the groundwork for our continued playoff success

[blacklabel]

I admit that I was a Whaley fan and felt like he tried to provide the coaches he had with the players they were looking for. Marrone wanted giant OL, so Whaley picked Kouandjio and Henderson. Rex wanted players to fit his 3-4 scheme, so Whaley gets him Ragland. I can't say Lawson and Washington were good fits for Rex's defense but the feeling must have been that Rex would find a way to get production out of guys that weren't perfect fits in his system.

 

And he did a decent job at finding depth and finding players during the season that he could plug in.

 

I really felt like the guy was in a no-win situation regardless of what he did or didn't do. Before him they had guys like Nix and friggin' Marv/Brandon, etc. Those GMs never did any trading/moving around in the draft and would get heavily criticized for it. Whaley came in and made it well-known that he was always open to trades whether in the draft or elsewhere. So he does the opposite of what his predecessors did and still gets criticized. Some of that criticism is fair, for sure, but just the fact that fans were clamoring for a guy who would do more than just stand pat on his picks, they get a guy like that and they still aren't happy.

 

He was also in a no-win situation regarding contract extensions and keeping their cornerstone players. After Dareus' monster 2014 season, people were flipping out that it'd be yet another case of the Bills letting a premiere player walk in free agency. Whaley gets a deal done and at first it's all, "Yay, they didn't let a player walk for nothing and locked him up long term!" And now it's, "Aw what a horrible move." Same could be said about Hughes but I think most agree that they gave him a very fair deal and so far he's lived up to it. His production hasn't been what it was but that happens when you move a player into a position they're not a good fit for.

 

So, I think the guy had a good eye for talent. I think where he lacked was his methods on how to build a winner. He felt like if he drafted kids from schools that constantly won, that winning nature would rub off on all the other players. But it takes more than that. And as confusing as some of the McBeane moves have been, it's becoming much clearer now that their method of team building is finding a collection of players that have each others backs. At this point, they don't have the most talented roster out there but they may have the roster with the most heart. And if they can keep that up while adding high level talent then this team might finally be on their way to being a consistent contender.

[Coach Tuesday]

Whaley was bad overall.

 

He does seem to have some good attributes, and was probably somewhat of a victim of the organizational "group think" that took place.... although, him landing that position was a result of his willingness to work with the "group think" which makes him complicit. I also don't think he is wired to run an effective football program from the top, and his inability to get along with coaches was catastrophe, and media missteps bad.

 

For years, decisions were made from murky places. Nobody could put their finger on it. Was it Wilson, Pegula, Brandon, Jauron, Overdorf, etc... nobody could really assign blame and people/fans/media would assign blame or absolve it based on their predetermined positions (such as giving Whaley credit for this draft, but absolving him from "Nix's last draft". Whenever the heat got too much for the Bills to handle, they would just throw another log on the fire and outsource all the blame, whether it was Donahoe, Levy, Nix, Marrone, Jauron, Gailey, Wilson himself, Brandon himself, etc... This management (I suspect has been driven from Brandon and Overdorf) has failed over and over again.

 

 

Now, I it seems that ownership has truly handed over the reins of the franchise as well as accountability to McDermott and Beane. To me that is healthy, and it probably marginalizes the numerous voices from past management. They can craft their cohesive vision for a football team. I like how detail oriented and positive McDermott is. They are going to get the right personalities in, and McDermott is going to show them how to prepare. I still think this season will fall into the crapper eventually, mainly due to depth and not enough weapons on offense, but I am still very encouraged that these guys will get this team into the top third or so of the league on a perennial basis

 

Great post.

[Fadingpain]

He was also one the first gms that was fond of Wentz. Wentz even said that the Bills had scouted him far longer and harder than anyone else.

Notice that Wentz is emerging as the next top QB in the NFL...and that he went in that crazy, impossible to predict draft spot of First round, No. 2 overall.

 

For all the anti-tankers out there who think you have to stumble into a good QB in the 5th round by mistake.

[Utah John]

The biggest lesson I am taking from this season, so far, is that character and heart are far more important than people have been thinking. Most teams and fans focus on the measurable factors (speed, time in agility drills, weight lifting, jumping, etc) and no one pays attention to the intangibles.

 

Whaley drafted some real locker room cancers. Young kids coming in at 21 thinking they're God's gift and just entitled to show up and get rich. Some of them outgrow this, learn to take their craft seriously, take care of their bodies, and work hard every day to improve. Some don't do this. The guys who work hard must shake their heads or throw up in their mouths at how much the lazy slackers make. The guys who have the intelligence to figure out how plays really work or don't work, must have the same reaction about the dotards.

 

I look at guys like Hyde, Poyer, TT, Kyle Williams, and Eric Wood as examples for how players should approach the game. Not all of these guys are the most talented at their position in the NFL, but they are all strivers. I look at Jerry Hughes and I see a guy who's grown up and become one of the leaders. I look at Marcel Dareus and I see a tremendously disappointing, highly talented but lazy prima dona. Hughes and Dareus are buddies, so why did one guy turn around his game and the other guy just piss away his chance?

 

Put aside for a moment all of Watkins' injuries, which clearly affected his performance. He was just a bad guy to have in the locker room. Why didn't Whaley find out about that? Why on earth did he give up so much to get him, without finding out what kind of man he is?

 

Whaley spent a pick on Karlos Williams, probably the most egregious waste of talent I can think of. So he had a good rookie year, big deal, he couldn't act like a professional, take care of his body, stay in shape. Gone.

 

Chris Hogan would fit in great with this year's team. So would Gillislee. The fact that they're not here is a major failure of Whaley. The "loss" of Gilmore is an example of addition by subtraction. The Bills are simply better off without him, and it's just great that NE is paying so much for his services.

 

McDermott and Beane are clearly much more in tune with what kind of person a player is. Also McDermott's style of leadership is helping the players become leaders themselves, and when that happens in any organization, the whole place gets better results.

[cba fan]

Whaley had a few good picks the same way a broken clock can have the correct time twice a day. The fact that most of the people he brought in are no longer on the team is a sign that he wasn't the best GM.

respectively.........are you even paying attention?

 

McDerma and beano hate Whaley Rex guys... they don full body protective gear every time one of them enter the room.

Many of those Whaley guys who are not on the team are starting for other teams.

thank you

 

some people never look at that.

How can you say this. Whaley was the best GM ever. Only a hateful hater with an agenda like yourself would think otherwise.

 

Sincerely

 

The koolaid crowd

 

And those players are whom exactly?

Watkins

Stephon Gilmore

Mike Gillislee

Darby when healthy

Zach Brown

Woods

Goodwin

Seymour

Graham

Bradham

Nickell Robey-Coleman

EJ Manual

Bryson Albright

Leger Douzable if Bills still had Gillislee Watkins ZBrown Seymour and R-Coleman they would be playoff lock.

 

This has to be a NFL historical record for # of players to end on one team roster get cut or traded and start next yr for new team. Numbers don't lie here.

 

best response here from you would be.........crickets.

Edited October 25, 2017 by cba fan

[Scott7975]

Whaley got the credit he deserved when he got fired.

[Foxx]

respectively.........are you even paying attention?

 

McDerma and beano hate Whale Rex guys... they don full body protective gear every time one of them enter the room.

thank you

 

some people never look at that.

Watkins

Darby when healthy

Woods

Goodwin

Seymour

Graham

Bradham

Nickell Robey-Coleman

EJ Manual

Zach Brown

 

This has to be a NFL historical record for # of players to end on one team roster get cut or traded and start next yr for new team. Numbers don't lie here.

speaking of which... how is Zach Brown playing this year?

Edited October 24, 2017 by Foxx

[Kirby Jackson]

speaking of which... how is Zach Brown playing this year?

The Redskins seem high on him.

[Real McClappy]

speaking of which... how is Zach Brown playing this year?

On par to have a equal or better year with Wash this year than last year with the Bills.

[TheFunPolice]

Give credit to whoever you want, but the guys who are around when the team wins will get all the "visible" credit. "Look at the turnaround the new front office and coaching staff have engineered in Buffalo" will be the story. Not the ex GM who everyone in the national sports media made fun of for his debacle of a press conference.

 

The Bills getting hot and going to the playoffs (if it happens this season) is the story the NFL would LOVE to see happen. And the story isn't going to be about Doug Whaley.

Edited October 24, 2017 by TheFunPolice

[corta765]

Notice that Wentz is emerging as the next top QB in the NFL...and that he went in that crazy, impossible to predict draft spot of First round, No. 2 overall.

 

For all the anti-tankers out there who think you have to stumble into a good QB in the 5th round by mistake.

 

A pick which the Eagles mortgaged a lot to trade up. Yes it's working and good for Philly but your blatantly ignoring it was a risk to move up. Second are you actually bringing up a tank discussion at this point in the season?

 

The single best thing about the current coach and GM is the fact they seem to have a true plan, have excellent attention to detail, and are doing a very sound job at creating a team.

 

You can tank all you want but as the Sabres and Colts have shown if you don't have the organization surrounding to support your guy it will not matter. You can point out your examples like Wentz who was once again traded for pick wise, but your ignoring the fact the best organizations are run well from top down. Yes you still need to find a QB, but this mindless zombie like obsession of being the worst solely for the reason of getting the pick of the QB litter is just insanely stupid and not well thought out.

[cba fan]

speaking of which... how is Zach Brown playing this year?

Good.

[PABillsfan23]

Which trade involving Watkins? Draft day or this year?

Whaley was long gone when the LA trade happened

[KD in CA]

You get judged on your biggest and most important moments.

 

EJ

Watkins

Dareus contract

 

3 strikes and youre out.

[Rob's House]

The biggest lesson I am taking from this season, so far, is that character and heart are far more important than people have been thinking. Most teams and fans focus on the measurable factors (speed, time in agility drills, weight lifting, jumping, etc) and no one pays attention to the intangibles.

 

Whaley drafted some real locker room cancers. Young kids coming in at 21 thinking they're God's gift and just entitled to show up and get rich. Some of them outgrow this, learn to take their craft seriously, take care of their bodies, and work hard every day to improve. Some don't do this. The guys who work hard must shake their heads or throw up in their mouths at how much the lazy slackers make. The guys who have the intelligence to figure out how plays really work or don't work, must have the same reaction about the dotards.

 

I look at guys like Hyde, Poyer, TT, Kyle Williams, and Eric Wood as examples for how players should approach the game. Not all of these guys are the most talented at their position in the NFL, but they are all strivers. I look at Jerry Hughes and I see a guy who's grown up and become one of the leaders. I look at Marcel Dareus and I see a tremendously disappointing, highly talented but lazy prima dona. Hughes and Dareus are buddies, so why did one guy turn around his game and the other guy just piss away his chance?

 

Put aside for a moment all of Watkins' injuries, which clearly affected his performance. He was just a bad guy to have in the locker room. Why didn't Whaley find out about that? Why on earth did he give up so much to get him, without finding out what kind of man he is?

 

Whaley spent a pick on Karlos Williams, probably the most egregious waste of talent I can think of. So he had a good rookie year, big deal, he couldn't act like a professional, take care of his body, stay in shape. Gone.

 

Chris Hogan would fit in great with this year's team. So would Gillislee. The fact that they're not here is a major failure of Whaley. The "loss" of Gilmore is an example of addition by subtraction. The Bills are simply better off without him, and it's just great that NE is paying so much for his services.

 

McDermott and Beane are clearly much more in tune with what kind of person a player is. Also McDermott's style of leadership is helping the players become leaders themselves, and when that happens in any organization, the whole place gets better results.

 

I agree, but I think that's why Whaley became such a fan favorite. After years of "lunch pail" guys who had "high motors" but not a ton of talent, it was a breath of fresh air to see some world-class ahletes on the roster. He made the moves we would have made on Madden. Unfortunately, it takes more than talent. Apparently you need a good combination of talent, smarts, and character.

 

 

FWIW, I think the Jauron teams would have done ok with a good QB. Those teams had high-character guys who played hard and kept it close. They just never had a QB that could sustain drives or come through with the game on the line. Of course, some NFL talent on the O-line might have helped too.