Ryan Bates traded

[Process]

2 hours ago, DJB said:

I don’t agree. Yes LT is the most important position but C is the 2nd most important as they are the brain of the OL. Setting protections and covering those A gaps with how defenses are attacking is very important. 
 

Another poster above alluded to as well how bad Josh was before Morse was here and he has been paramount in Josh’ development. The guard spots to me are the least important on the line 

Guards get paid significantly more than OCs. There were 6 guards that got paid more than the highest paid center last year. That kind of ends the debate. 

[Big Turk]

Beane loading up on draft capital to move around as needed.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

It is easy to say "how bad Josh was" before Morse got here...doesn't mean the correlation is that Morse getting here was the biggest catalyst to Josh's development when Morse joined Buffalo.  Josh was an ascending QB the moment he last stepped off Wyoming's football field.  Nothing against Morse, but some of you are heaping way too much credit onto Morse for Josh Allens development.  

 

What I really meant (and I believe DJB also meant) was how badly Josh was pass protected (from the center position and as a unit) in year one.

 

I agree, and we all know, that Josh's drive & determination is really the reason that he has become who he is and improved so much from year one to year three.

 

And I am not sure I agree that Josh was an ascending QB the moment he stepped off the Wyoming field. Josh's ascent was quite an unusual improvement in terms of accuracy... very few QBs get more accurate from college to the NFL - - probably the reason there were so many Bills fans (myself included) who wanted Josh Rosen over him on draft day! 😅

 

The moment for me that I knew he was special was not "the leap" and underdog 'W' versus the Vikings, it was the home game vs Miami (the Kyle WIlliams game). He was unstoppable!

[Green Lightning]

13 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

not bad for a guy who didn't miss a snap on the best ol we had in a while and get a high 5th n save cap space for a guy who played 35 snaps last year. 

Our "best in a while" Oline couldn't protect Josh when it mattered against KC. I don't care about the regular season. Morse cannot get us a yard when we need it. And I am not betting we dodge the injury bullet again on the OL.

4 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

You are just a bundle of happiness aren’t you 😂

Just watched too many Bills Oline fails in the past 50+ years.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

3 hours ago, Westside said:

Unless our OL gets decimated with injuries, then you’ll wish we still had Bates.

Hey I would have kept him, but it's a whole lot easier to pick up decent backup guards than WR talent in FA

[T master]

This makes 11 draft picks this draft i wonder if Beane will actually use each pick for players or will use them to be like State Farm & bundle them to get a really good insurance policy for Josh 🤔 ??

 

Like a good neighbor the great Beane is there !! 

[Ralonzo]

7 hours ago, DJB said:

Remember when we traded  Wyatt for a late pick? How did that turn out?

 

Not saying Bates is the next Wyatt but man it’s rough to see decent oline guys go

Anderson would be more of a candidate to be the next Teller than Bates.

[DJB]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

It is easy to say "how bad Josh was" before Morse got here...doesn't mean the correlation is that Morse getting here was the biggest catalyst to Josh's development when Morse joined Buffalo.  Josh was an ascending QB the moment he last stepped off Wyoming's football field.  Nothing against Morse, but some of you are heaping way too much credit onto Morse for Josh Allens development.  

 

Its kind of crazy how many people get "credit" for Josh Allens development.  It is talked about as if Josh never would have developed without "X" person and just glosses over Allens insane talent level combined with his commitment, drive, and competitiveness.  All anyone needs to do is watch his first road game as a double digit underdog vs Minnesota to see that what Josh Allen has become was inevitable, he was going to get there one way or another.  

 

Im not saying nobody had a role in his development, but its weird to me that Mahomes, Burrow, Rodgers, etc never get that same statement of how they developed because of so and so, people just accept their talent level as to why they are so good.  With Allen, its never about how talented he is, its alwasy talked about it being because of Daboll, or because he has Diggs, etc etc.  

 

I should have rephrased it to “running for his life”. That was more of the sentiment I was alluding to 

[Don Otreply]

57 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Our "best in a while" Oline couldn't protect Josh when it mattered against KC. I don't care about the regular season. Morse cannot get us a yard when we need it. And I am not betting we dodge the injury bullet again on the OL.

Just watched too many Bills Oline fails in the past 50+ years.

And? 
 

 

[QCity]

1 hour ago, Process said:

Guards get paid significantly more than OCs. There were 6 guards that got paid more than the highest paid center last year. That kind of ends the debate. 

 

You start 2 guards and only 1 center so there is supply/demand at play in terms of salaries.

[Dablitzkrieg]

15 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

9 anyway.  

😁

 

Let's hope that our OL is injury free again.  It'd be a miracle if that happened.  

 

At some point shorting Allen on OL and WRs is going to be a bad look.  

 

 

You act like Bates is the ONLY capable backup 🤣

[NickelCity]

That's a good trade for the bears. Shame, I don't like losing any OLine talent.

[BillsFanForever19]

6 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

The reason you move on from Morse is it frees up cap space to fill holes at more important positions, namely EDGE and WR. $8.5M is significant.

 

Or you can do a short term non-guaranteed extension with some void years in the interim and save $5.01m

 

I'm not saying there's no logic in some of the things you're saying. But releasing him isn't the only way we can save cap space with Morse. And ultimately, I believe it's way more likely keeping the continuity of what Beane loved last season is going to outweigh the $3.49m in savings from not having him vs. having him.

[BuffaloBillyG]

13 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Or you can do a short term non-guaranteed extension with some void years in the interim and save $5.01m

 

I'm not saying there's no logic in some of the things you're saying. But releasing him isn't the only way we can save cap space with Morse. And ultimately, I believe it's way more likely keeping the continuity of what Beane loved last season is going to outweigh the $3.49m in savings from not having him vs. having him.

Morse is also a core leader of this team. Well thought of and well liked in addition to his play being perhaps the best it's been during his time here. You don't just cut guys like that.

 

 

Edited March 5 by BuffaloBillyG

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Or you can do a short term non-guaranteed extension with some void years in the interim and save $5.01m

 

I'm not saying there's no logic in some of the things you're saying. But releasing him isn't the only way we can save cap space with Morse. And ultimately, I believe it's way more likely keeping the continuity of what Beane loved last season is going to outweigh the $3.49m in savings from not having him vs. having him.

 

After this I am all but certain Morse is on the team. I could see cutting him and keeping Bates. I think that and diverting the money was probably my preference but I understand why keeping the best line of the Allen era together was their priority and so getting something back for Bates makes sense.

[Gunsgoodtime]

11 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

 

This really isn't a huge deal.  At some point we have to trust younger guys.  It appears that we're going to trust younger guys (Anderson, specifically) as IOL backups.  Maybe Edwards stays, maybe he doesn't.  But Anderson moves into Bates's spot, and someone young and cheap will move into Anderson's spot.  

Agreed.  Morse likely stays.  We likely see some movement on Hyde in the next few days, too.  He's in town. 

Again, another "Nothing to see here" post.  Some of us are not amazed by Beanes Wizardry, or ignore the bad things with the Bills. Araiza to Chiefs, no big deal, Hines cut, no big deal, Bates traded, no big deal. Here's the thing....they all do matter no matter how much you want fo ignore it

Edited March 5 by Gunsgoodtime

[JerseyBills]

2 hours ago, Green Lightning said:

Our "best in a while" Oline couldn't protect Josh when it mattered against KC. I don't care about the regular season. Morse cannot get us a yard when we need it. And I am not betting we dodge the injury bullet again on the OL.

Just watched too many Bills Oline fails in the past 50+ years.

Ok. So re sign Edwards who was ahead of Bates and build on our Tackles.

And if you're putting that game on the OL because 1 play, I just can't respect your football knowledge 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Again, another "Nothing to see here" post.  Some of us are not amazed by Beanes Wizardry, or ignore the bad things with the Bills

 

I am neither amazed by Beane or ignore the bad with the Bills. But I always felt Bates / Morse was an either / or this year. I'd have leaned the other way (cut Morse, start Bates, draft a young IOL 3rd or later) but I understand going the other way. Was a close call for me.

[Gunsgoodtime]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am neither amazed by Beane or ignore the bad with the Bills. But I always felt Bates / Morse was an either / or this year. I'd have leaned the other way (cut Morse, start Bates, draft a young IOL 3rd or later) but I understand going the other way. Was a close call for me.

I am happy Morse is back fwiw.  He is better than some give him credit for

[HappyDays]

54 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Morse is also a core leader of this team. Well thought of and well liked in addition to his play being perhaps the best it's been during his time here. You don't just cut guys like that.

 

 

 

This is something I will staunchly disagree with. We have to start being ruthless. The Pats were a dynasty for 20 years because of that ruthless mindset. The Chiefs are now following suit. Morse has done everything right since day one. He has been a model player. And that should have zero impact on our decision to keep or cut him.

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, HankBulloughMellencamp said:

 

What I really meant (and I believe DJB also meant) was how badly Josh was pass protected (from the center position and as a unit) in year one.

 

I agree, and we all know, that Josh's drive & determination is really the reason that he has become who he is and improved so much from year one to year three.

 

And I am not sure I agree that Josh was an ascending QB the moment he stepped off the Wyoming field. Josh's ascent was quite an unusual improvement in terms of accuracy... very few QBs get more accurate from college to the NFL - - probably the reason there were so many Bills fans (myself included) who wanted Josh Rosen over him on draft day! 😅

 

The moment for me that I knew he was special was not "the leap" and underdog 'W' versus the Vikings, it was the home game vs Miami (the Kyle WIlliams game). He was unstoppable!

 

After he left Wyoming, he immediately went to work with Palmer and between that time and draft time his draft stock sky rocketed to where he was even getting first overall consideration.  And it was because of the remarkable improvements he was showing in short windows and wowing during workouts and the combine.  There really was not a period of Josh's career after stepping off the Wyoming field the last time where he wasn't showing significant improvement in short windows.  So, I get what you are saying, but I would still argue that Josh began his ascent when he first started his work with Palmer and that ascent continued at every stage of his career since.  

2 hours ago, DJB said:

 

I should have rephrased it to “running for his life”. That was more of the sentiment I was alluding to 

 

Gotcha, and that is fair...the OL was scary bad his rookie year.  

[Billsatlastin2018]

Damn!

 

Next thing you know, Master will be getting a hand out the door!

Edited March 5 by Billsatlastin2018

[Green Lightning]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

And? 
 

 

I don't relish watchig that movie again. It's time to move away from expensive vets who haven't gotten you to the promised land. I don't expect they'll improve. I've seen enough of Morse moonwalked by a bull rush.

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is something I will staunchly disagree with. We have to start being ruthless. The Pats were a dynasty for 20 years because of that ruthless mindset. The Chiefs are now following suit. Morse has done everything right since day one. He has been a model player. And that should have zero impact on our decision to keep or cut him.

Ultimately, it comes down to his play. That should be the impact and his play has been very good.

 

Here's the thing about comparing what the Patriots did back in the day and what the Chiefs are currently doing; to the Bills approach. Rings buy you the benefit of the doubt. You can have that ruthless mindset when you're playing for the title every year. People will put up with that. They won't for less. Look what happened as soon as Brady left and the Super Bowl train stopped in New England. It became a place free agents avoided and vets walked away from. 

 

Now, I am part of the group that wants younger/cheaper options. However, going with some younger players actually cements in my mind the need for a guy like Morse. Leadership. Mentorship. Setting the example of how it's done here. I'm going to wait and see what they end up with on his contract before I get too far up the road in judging too harshly if he's here or not. I will agree the number must come down in some way to make sense. 

[Green Lightning]

25 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Ok. So re sign Edwards who was ahead of Bates and build on our Tackles.

And if you're putting that game on the OL because 1 play, I just can't respect your football knowledge 

And if you're jumping to that conclusion based on one post, I just can't respect you as a poster.

[Don Otreply]

8 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

I don't relish watchig that movie again. It's time to move away from expensive vets who haven't gotten you to the promised land. I don't expect they'll improve. I've seen enough of Morse moonwalked by a bull rush.

I see, 

[Fan in Chicago]

19 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is something I will staunchly disagree with. We have to start being ruthless. The Pats were a dynasty for 20 years because of that ruthless mindset. The Chiefs are now following suit. Morse has done everything right since day one. He has been a model player. And that should have zero impact on our decision to keep or cut him.

It's much easier for a FO to follow that strategy after winning one SB. But Bills have to be careful. Esp on the OL which they finally got right. Don't mess with that at this point. 

We still need depth and a succession plan for older linemen like Morse and Dawkins. So, at least one OL needs to be drafted in April. 

[HappyDays]

10 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Look what happened as soon as Brady left and the Super Bowl train stopped in New England. It became a place free agents avoided and vets walked away from. 

 

That's because Belichick and co. are not fun coaches to be around. It has nothing to do with the roster management strategy. We have tried the friendly family environment and it hasn't earned us a bunch of free agent discounts. Players know it is a business.

[Turk71]

On PFF, Morse was rated 20th out of 36 qualified centers last season and has been slipping every season.

He is near the end of his career and needs to be replaced soon.

I know that many think PFF is garbage and I take their ratings with some skepticism myself; but on the other hand all 32 NFL teams (including the Bills) pay for their professional services.

[BillsFanForever19]

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

After this I am all but certain Morse is on the team. I could see cutting him and keeping Bates. I think that and diverting the money was probably my preference but I understand why keeping the best line of the Allen era together was their priority and so getting something back for Bates makes sense.

 

12 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am neither amazed by Beane or ignore the bad with the Bills. But I always felt Bates / Morse was an either / or this year. I'd have leaned the other way (cut Morse, start Bates, draft a young IOL 3rd or later) but I understand going the other way. Was a close call for me.

 

Agreed. I always saw the options as:

 

a.) We keep them both. Restructure to Morse and pay cut to Bates.

 

b.) We keep Morse on a restructure, but move on from Bates in his out year.

 

c.) We keep Bates, cut Morse.

 

I never saw a scenario where we moved on from both and started from scratch. I saw options A & B as the most likely, but wouldn't have had an issue with C either.

 

But then, as i've said, I listened to Beane at the Combine say multiple times unprompted "last year was the best OL I've had since I've been here". In hearing that, it was pretty clear to me he wasn't going to replace people on the Starting 5 and mess with the continuity.

 

And now they've moved on from Bates. If you're someone who's hoping for an Outright cut of Morse at 8.5m saved v. a restructuring that can save us 5m - you're pounding the table for something I see as EXTREMELY unlikely. 

 

If he were to have no possibility of saving money any other way than a release or he performed poorly last season, it would be a no brainer. But those things don't apply and if they had - we'd have kept Bates.

 

12 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

This is something I will staunchly disagree with. We have to start being ruthless. The Pats were a dynasty for 20 years because of that ruthless mindset. The Chiefs are now following suit. Morse has done everything right since day one. He has been a model player. And that should have zero impact on our decision to keep or cut him.

 

The Chiefs aren't exactly following suit. There's a major difference between cutting a player and saving 3.49m before the decline hits based solely on age and the Tyreek Hill and L'Jarius Sneed situations.

 

In Tyreek Hill, they wanted him back. They just weren't interested in paying him the $120m contract he would get in Miami. The same goes for Sneed. They have a number they're willing to pay and have made it known that if they can't agree on that number - they'll move him the same way.

 

Those aren't comparable situations to cutting someone under contract for a differential of 3.49m. Nor is the situation of the Chiefs or the Patriots where they are/were when they did these things v. where The Bills are now.

 

The Chiefs and the Pats at the time of doing some of these moves had won Lombardi's already. When you've gotten a Championship or multiple already, it's easier to be a little more risk taking with the moves you make at certain spots. There's a built in equity when it comes to a Dynasty taking risks that doesn't apply here.

 

If we choose to jump the gun Belichick style at a position, betting on the decline coming before it happens, and the OL takes a step back and/or the new guy and Josh have bad snaps due to unfamiliarity - it's a lot worse in the situation we're in than a team that has hoisted the trophy already.

Edited March 6 by BillsFanForever19

[Aussie Joe]

Here is Morse’s replacement come 2025 with the pick they got for Bates …His name is Tanor Bortolini …

 

 

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

After he left Wyoming, he immediately went to work with Palmer and between that time and draft time his draft stock sky rocketed to where he was even getting first overall consideration.  And it was because of the remarkable improvements he was showing in short windows and wowing during workouts and the combine.  There really was not a period of Josh's career after stepping off the Wyoming field the last time where he wasn't showing significant improvement in short windows.  So, I get what you are saying, but I would still argue that Josh began his ascent when he first started his work with Palmer and that ascent continued at every stage of his career since.  

 

Well there was some talk of JA being at the top of the previous draft class as well (if he came out early). And there's footage of Josh on some podcast telling the story of why he stuck around for another year mainly because he just couldn't look his coach in the eye & tell the only guy who gave him a D1 chance that he was leaving early (along with all of the other offensive talent that was graduating).

 

But I do agree that his work with Jordan Palmer was very significant in getting him NFL ready & then some. In fact, Palmer was the first guy who really tipped me off to the idea that we may really have a unicorn on our hands... he would often refer to Josh as 'one of the most talented people to ever play the position' and I would say he has been proven correct at this point. 

[BillsFanForever19]

8 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Here is Morse’s replacement come 2025 with the pick they got for Bates …His name is Tanor Bortolini …

 

 

 

The hype on him following the Combine is at a level where I've seen him discussed as high as Round 2. His ascension being compared to a Cole Strange like prospect that gets Drafted shockingly high.

 

If he were available close to the pick we acquired for moving Bates, sure. But a Day 2 Pick for a starting Center a year from now with the things we have to get done in this Draft is a little rich for my blood.

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/uw/2024/03/03/wisconsins-tanor-bortolini-delivers-eye-popping-results-at-nfl-combine/72834346007/

[klos63]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

After this I am all but certain Morse is on the team. I could see cutting him and keeping Bates. I think that and diverting the money was probably my preference but I understand why keeping the best line of the Allen era together was their priority and so getting something back for Bates makes sense.

Also, we have a very good Oline coach, entering his 3rd season with the team. I think he knows who will work in his system and who won't. My guess is that he didn't see Bates being the right fit for what he wants to see.

[Aussie Joe]

29 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

The hype on him following the Combine is at a level where I've seen him discussed as high as Round 2. His ascension being compared to a Cole Strange like prospect that gets Drafted shockingly high.

 

If he were available close to the pick we acquired for moving Bates, sure. But a Day 2 Pick for a starting Center a year from now with the things we have to get done in this Draft is a little rich for my blood.

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/uw/2024/03/03/wisconsins-tanor-bortolini-delivers-eye-popping-results-at-nfl-combine/72834346007/

No way at 60 … but possibly with their end of third … they have shown the last 2 years that they are prepared to play a long game with their third round picks 

Edited March 6 by Aussie Joe

[BuffaL0L0k0]

23 hours ago, SWATeam said:

Many thought he was to take over for Morse

Gimme the over! please...

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, HankBulloughMellencamp said:

 

Well there was some talk of JA being at the top of the previous draft class as well (if he came out early). And there's footage of Josh on some podcast telling the story of why he stuck around for another year mainly because he just couldn't look his coach in the eye & tell the only guy who gave him a D1 chance that he was leaving early (along with all of the other offensive talent that was graduating).

 

But I do agree that his work with Jordan Palmer was very significant in getting him NFL ready & then some. In fact, Palmer was the first guy who really tipped me off to the idea that we may really have a unicorn on our hands... he would often refer to Josh as 'one of the most talented people to ever play the position' and I would say he has been proven correct at this point. 

 

Yeah same, it was his work with Palmer that took me from not very interested early in the offseason to wanting him on draft night. 

[John from Riverside]

I do wonder what the current plan is for back up center now that they have Mr. dependable traded to the Bears
 

I don’t want to see a situation where there is a line reshuffle leave McGovern where he is

[gonzo1105]

26 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I do wonder what the current plan is for back up center now that they have Mr. dependable traded to the Bears
 

I don’t want to see a situation where there is a line reshuffle leave McGovern where he is

It’s Alec Anderson 

[Big Blitz]

We’re in the process of a trade up to 9.  Please say this deal isn’t done.  
 

 

Edited March 6 by Big Blitz