Pete Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 14 hours ago, vtnatefootball11 said: That's not it. At least that would be stupid if so. The Bills already reported his back injury a while back, why would they hide it now? Also, even if Stef was nursing a back, do you think Stef would play part of the games but not crucial third downs? You think they would design screens to him so he automatically gets hit? That doesn't make sense. Something is going on. The Bills reported Josh’s shoulder injury after the Giants game. It’s been bothering Josh ever since, yet it’s not on every injury report. Back issues tend to linger, especially if they don’t get adequate time to heal 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 I'd be shocked if he isn't nursing an injury and the Bills have been trying to create the illusion he's 100% to create bracketed coverage to free other options up. Is there any yards of separation by week chart out on the webisphere? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLEN1QB Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Maybe he's just not good enough anymore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 11 minutes ago, ALLEN1QB said: Maybe he's just not good enough anymore. we will mark Tuesday October 15th as the day he instantly aged from a top nfl WR to sherfields backup 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 5 hours ago, Utah John said: Those stats are for the whole year. Since the Philly game he's been off the field a LOT. That's what we're talking about. It's the change from how things were through most of the season that has us wondering what's going on. What ARE we talking about here? Look at the title and OP of this thread. No doubt his numbers have fallen off for the past month of so. What does that have to do with "3rd downs" and coaches supposedly scheming him out of the gameplan? Since the Philly game, where he was body slammed onto his back for the 2nd week in a row, his numbers have been down. Not just on 3rd downs. What mysterious, unknown, never-before-seen reason could be behind such a thing? A lingering back/rib issue. Easy as that. Edited January 6 by DrDawkinstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whorlnut Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 38 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: What ARE we talking about here? Look at the title and OP of this thread. No doubt his numbers have fallen off for the past month of so. What does that have to do with "3rd downs" and coaches supposedly scheming him out of the gameplan? Since the Philly game, where he was body slammed onto his back for the 2nd week in a row, his numbers have been down. Not just on 3rd downs. What mysterious, unknown, never-before-seen reason could be behind such a thing? A lingering back/rib issue. Easy as that. “Easy as that”? Don’t confuse your guesses with facts. Nobody knows what, if anything, is going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 4 minutes ago, whorlnut said: “Easy as that”? Don’t confuse your guesses with facts. Nobody knows what, if anything, is going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheektowaga Chad Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Look at run vs pass plays when diggs is on the field vs off the field Diggs is rarely on the field on run plays I'm hoping the offense is back to trying to create unpredictability for the first time since daboll but in order to do so (especially so late in the season) you have to become very predictable first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 he's emotionally fatigued Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 16 hours ago, PBF81 said: If he's injured but not on the injury report, then it'll be problems for us. The league friends upon that. No, it won’t be. You only have to report injuries if they miss game time or can’t practice full 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 minute ago, RunTheBall said: No, it won’t be. You only have to report injuries if they miss game time or can’t practice full If he’s truly dealing with an injury enough to the point where he’s barely out-snapping rotational WR’s, why is he practicing in full? If we’re limiting snaps, it seems it would be wise for him to take it easy at practice. Maybe it’s not something that can heal with rest like that, but if it is an injury, it’s clearly affecting his ability to play a normal snap percentage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whorlnut Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 48 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Nice retort 4 minutes ago, SCBills said: If he’s truly dealing with an injury enough to the point where he’s barely out-snapping rotational WR’s, why is he practicing in full? If we’re limiting snaps, it seems it would be wise for him to take it easy at practice. Maybe it’s not something that can heal with rest like that, but if it is an injury, it’s clearly affecting his ability to play a normal snap percentage. Why? Because most fans don’t want to consider that there might be something going on that isn’t injury related. Diggs has had to be talked off the ledge the last couple seasons after the season ended, and we never saw his usage and productivity dip like this before. You think he will not be a distraction this off-season? I just don’t see it. We might have to revamp our entire receiver corp. yeah, there is a lot of dead money, but I think how things shake out once the season ends will be something to keep an eye on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 It’s multi-factorial but I’ll preface this with my opinion that Diggs is the ultimate competitor, a consummate professional who’s not afraid to display his emotions on a sleeve. That being said, if Diggs wasn’t dinged up, there is ZERO possibility that he’s taking himself out of the game as much as he has. There’s no chance we wouldn’t see the displays of frustration we’ve seen for years when he feels he’s good to go and isn’t getting utilized. I think Diggs knows he isn’t 100%, takes himself off when he feels another player would be better on the following play, and understands his production is down because he hasn’t been able to get the same separation he usually gets. Obviously Brady has schemed more into the running attack. Diggs is a willing blocker but if he’s dinged they aren’t going to use him for that which is why his snap counts have decreased as well. Also since the Giants game, Josh’s shoulder has been an issue. When’s the last time you saw him step into a throw and laser it over the middle on an intermediate crosser? (Seriously I can’t remember so if I’m wrong let me know). That’s Diggs’ bread and butter. Our passing game has been outside the numbers and Josh’s deep throws have been mostly inaccurate. The deep throws he does make tend to be arcing throws rather than laser beams. There are numerous examples where Diggs is open on the crosser and Josh takes the dump off. I’ve gotta believe it’s because Josh doesn’t trust his velocity right now. Despite all that, Diggs is still getting the same number of targets per game although much less further down the field. This Miami game is going to tell us a lot. I hope it’s not just the optimist in me but I thought Diggs was moving a little better in the Pats* game. I’m concerned Josh’s shoulder is going to be the limiting factor but I expect a BIG game from Diggs 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 14 minutes ago, SCBills said: If he’s truly dealing with an injury enough to the point where he’s barely out-snapping rotational WR’s, why is he practicing in full? If we’re limiting snaps, it seems it would be wise for him to take it easy at practice. Maybe it’s not something that can heal with rest like that, but if it is an injury, it’s clearly affecting his ability to play a normal snap percentage. I agree with you, but I was responding to a poster who said we’d get in trouble with the league which is not accurate. McBeane are experts at revealing the least amount of information they need to about pretty much every aspect of the team, injuries especially. They want teams to scheme against Diggs likes he’s 100% which opens things up for other players. I’m sure most DCs can see what’s going on with Diggs and will scheme accordingly but McD isn’t going to give them any extra help/info if he can avoid it. Obviously I’m just speculating like everyone else. We’ve got a lot of history with Diggs though, so unless we think he all-of-a-sudden checked out, isn’t giving his all, or slammed into the Father Time wall in the Jax game, I think the combo of him being dinged up/Josh’s shoulder/Brady run game emphasis explains a lot of what we are seeing. I don’t think this is a behind-the-scenes Diggs vs Buffalo drama that is playing out. I think its the war of attrition that is the game of football along with a new OC emphasizing the run. I think Brady knows he needs Diggs to be more involved to make it to the playoffs and make a run when we are there. I expect to see it start Sunday 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 14 minutes ago, RunTheBall said: I agree with you, but I was responding to a poster who said we’d get in trouble with the league which is not accurate. McBeane are experts at revealing the least amount of information they need to about pretty much every aspect of the team, injuries especially. They want teams to scheme against Diggs likes he’s 100% which opens things up for other players. I’m sure most DCs can see what’s going on with Diggs and will scheme accordingly but McD isn’t going to give them any extra help/info if he can avoid it. Obviously I’m just speculating like everyone else. We’ve got a lot of history with Diggs though, so unless we think he all-of-a-sudden checked out, isn’t giving his all, or slammed into the Father Time wall in the Jax game, I think the combo of him being dinged up/Josh’s shoulder/Brady run game emphasis explains a lot of what we are seeing. I don’t think this is a behind-the-scenes Diggs vs Buffalo drama that is playing out. I think its the war of attrition that is the game of football along with a new OC emphasizing the run. I think Brady knows he needs Diggs to be more involved to make it to the playoffs and make a run when we are there. I expect to see it start Sunday But yet - if he’s truly nursing something, calling an inside running play for him in a goal-to-go situation last week was … bizarre. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ControllerOfPlanetX Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Because when the play is not designed to go to him, he doesn’t put his mouthpiece in…so defense knows what’s coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Diggs is clearly dinged in some unreportable manner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 @RunTheBall typing up a storm and making some good points. That’s it. That’s the post. 👍🏻 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 4 minutes ago, Rubes said: Rubes I came in here a few minutes ago because I saw this on X. Wondering if anyone has any further information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, dollars 2 donuts said: Rubes I came in here a few minutes ago because I saw this on X. Wondering if anyone has any further information. So that’s the multi-million dollar question. Why is he taking himself out? Injury? I just can’t see that. Why would he choose to take himself out in the highest leverage situations if it were that? Also his usage on the field makes little sense if he’s injured. An upset Diggs acting out because he’s upset with the coaches? Possibly. But if this is it, then it is highly likely that the crap will hit the fan this off-season. Until then they’re still married. It is worth watching his usage tomorrow and in the playoffs. I’d think he’d ball out and try to win a championship this season since he has to be here anyways. Coaches decision? This would mean it’s not Diggs taking himself off the field and the tweet is incorrect. I doubt this is the case unless the coaches are trying to piss off Diggs or his play has severely declined. The former doesn’t seem likely and the latter certainly seems a huge stretch. Diggs is still the best WR on the roster by a wide margin. I don’t know the answer, but it’s a concerning situation. Not much to do but see how things play out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunTheBall Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 We can all see that Diggs has been taking himself off the field a lot over the last 5 or 6 games outside of the plays where Brady doesn’t have him on the field. There are only 2 reasons he would remove himself from the game 1) He’s dinged up 2) He’s quitting on the team Anyone here think Diggs is quitting on the team? IDK, I’ve seen nothing but professionalism from him during his time in Buffalo. Yeah, he’s got some WR diva in him no doubt, can be demonstrative on the sidelines, and there’s been some friction behind the scenes, but I can’t wrap my head around Diggs just quitting on his team. I could be 100% wrong, and god knows I don’t want to believe Diggs is a quitter. I think we will know a lot more after Sunday night. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 3 hours ago, BarleyNY said: So that’s the multi-million dollar question. Why is he taking himself out? Injury? I just can’t see that. Why would he choose to take himself out in the highest leverage situations if it were that? Also his usage on the field makes little sense if he’s injured. An upset Diggs acting out because he’s upset with the coaches? Possibly. But if this is it, then it is highly likely that the crap will hit the fan this off-season. Until then they’re still married. It is worth watching his usage tomorrow and in the playoffs. I’d think he’d ball out and try to win a championship this season since he has to be here anyways. Coaches decision? This would mean it’s not Diggs taking himself off the field and the tweet is incorrect. I doubt this is the case unless the coaches are trying to piss off Diggs or his play has severely declined. The former doesn’t seem likely and the latter certainly seems a huge stretch. Diggs is still the best WR on the roster by a wide margin. I don’t know the answer, but it’s a concerning situation. Not much to do but see how things play out. agreed on the “what is it?” And well put above. Man, Barley, in my would I can’t…CAN’T ever believe he is a just dawg it guy. It simply isn’t in his DNA. This all plays in, though, to the issues of our passing game. I DO agree with the GMFB crew/ Schrager…Bills won four games, but they are torching things up and they did struggle…come on now, in earnest, struggled against 2 poor teams. need to get it right on Sunday or potentially else. Edited January 6 by dollars 2 donuts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaenon Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 We saw Diggs get hurt a couple times this season. First catch or drop on that bubble screen on our first drive ...forget what game that was. Maybe someone can help me out. He was also helped off the field a different game too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 28 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said: agreed on the “what is it?” And we’ll put above. Man, Barley, in my would I can’t…CAN’T ever believe he is a just dawg it guy. It simply isn’t in his DNA. This all plays in, though, to the issues of our passing game. I DO agree with the GMFB crew/ Schrager…Bills won four games, but they are torching things up and they did struggle…come on now, in earnest, struggled against 2 poor teams. need to get it right on Sunday or potentially else. Thank you. That’s what’s so difficult about this situation. I never would have thought Diggs would do something like pull himself out of games in high leverage situations. It’s not like him. Likewise it’s career suicide for coaches to pull him. Unless Diggs feels that things just gotten to a breaking point nothing really makes much sense. Regardless I guess we just have to see how it plays out. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Harris 69 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Without a doubt the guy is hurt. They are being coy so that every DB in the league doesn’t drill the affected area when he is tackled. This is a super competitive, egotistical superstar who gets millions for yards, catches and TDs. The only thing that would limit his usage is his body. Guys play through all kinds of serious injuries that create limits on the practice field and on Sunday. We’ve heard McD talk all around it, it won’t be addressed fully until the off season. Then there will be a collective ahhhhh, he played with that??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Did Diggs get arrested in OP in the last few weeks for VTL infractions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 The last 3 games his snap counts have nose dived. Undisclosed nagging injury IMO. I don't buy into conspiracy theories of a haha we don't need you type of thing. They aren't going to do that to a captain of a football team. Diggs body language also does not support this as he is constantly hyping the team. You can see on film Diggs taking himself out sometimes. I also think some of it might be the Bills trying to on the fly become "multiple on offense." I think they want to have more answers than Diggs because they need to. You can't rely on just one receiver to be the whole offense. So, they are working on that as the season goes on. Part of the reason why Dorsey was fired was he wasn't getting this done. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzgobowlin Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 My guess is they have more packages without Diggs to keep him fresh and that Diggs run blocking is sub par jmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billieve420 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Have to believe it is injury related. The one thing you could count on even when team struggled on offense was the Allen-Diggs connection. If issues had started after training camp and lingered all year then maybe I could buy into other possibilities. I can't believe a competitive player like Diggs would want off the field if he wasn't banged up and the team is trying to manage an injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp566 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 He’s hurt. No doubt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 1 hour ago, Johnnyp566 said: He’s hurt. No doubt. I seem to recall you having a sometimes source. Am I mistaken on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Probably hurting more than we know. Could be he’s starting to show some age too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 On 1/5/2024 at 4:57 PM, vtnatefootball11 said: It misses the point of the entire post, why is Diggs being schemed off the filed on the most crucial third downs in must win games? Let's say Diggs has a core injury or problem involving the back/chest. Painful and impacts his ability to breathe. Diggs wants to keep playing but the Bills will use him primarily as a decoy to draw coverage and lower the risk of making his injury worse. I could think of two reasons why he comes off on third down: He needs to catch his breath or he comes off so Allen has another legitimate receiving target on the most important downs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtnatefootball11 Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 (edited) On 1/6/2024 at 2:16 PM, Scott7975 said: The last 3 games his snap counts have nose dived. Undisclosed nagging injury IMO. I don't buy into conspiracy theories of a haha we don't need you type of thing. They aren't going to do that to a captain of a football team. Diggs body language also does not support this as he is constantly hyping the team. You can see on film Diggs taking himself out sometimes. I also think some of it might be the Bills trying to on the fly become "multiple on offense." I think they want to have more answers than Diggs because they need to. You can't rely on just one receiver to be the whole offense. So, they are working on that as the season goes on. Part of the reason why Dorsey was fired was he wasn't getting this done. I agree with your bottom paragraph completely. This doesn't have to be some huge conspiracy. It could be that the Bills are trying to make sure they can develop ways to win without him (and maybe also he has a nagging injury as well, injury alone doesn't explain it given his odd usage). That is a little bit of a "we need to show we can win without relying on Diggs" though, not saying the Bills are shoving that in his face, but Bills coaches/Allen may be making a conscious effort not to overuse him and give other receivers chances in big situations. Maybe Diggs supports this as well and is trying to protect his body (and emotional investment) long term. Him coming out on crucial third downs (including by design from the Bills staff) is still very odd though, given his competitive nature. Still have yet to hear a great explanation for it. Edited January 7 by vtnatefootball11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtnatefootball11 Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 14 hours ago, GaryPinC said: Let's say Diggs has a core injury or problem involving the back/chest. Painful and impacts his ability to breathe. Diggs wants to keep playing but the Bills will use him primarily as a decoy to draw coverage and lower the risk of making his injury worse. I could think of two reasons why he comes off on third down: He needs to catch his breath or he comes off so Allen has another legitimate receiving target on the most important downs. But if his injury is that severe then why are the coaches calling multiple screens (and even handoffs) to him that ensure he takes hits? Why not act a decoy on the most critical passing downs and take two defenders deep with you and clear out the underneath for someone else? Not to mention, what are the bills risking draft picks/fines to cover the injury up even after being asked about it by the media and scrutiny now on it? There is more to this than just an injury. Not saying it's some huge conspiracy, but speculating that there could be some discontent that has brewed since the clear display of frustration in the offseason is not crazy, it's an objective question to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrivefourfive Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 I’m going to agree with McCourtney’s perception of things, and just thought dump on it. Diggs numbers during the win streak are the worst stretch of his Bills career. Go figure. If Diggs was all-in and the Bills were all-in on him, then this team would look even more impression right now. These mind games that go on with this franchise are inching towards counterproductive, but we’ll see. Just watch tonight… as Diggs turns it up, and the professional relationship between he and the Bills is restored gets the Bills offensive is FIRED up. Going to be the the talk of the league all week heading into the Playoffs. Could be a BIG storyline — Bills, Super Bowl favorites… I just hope the Bills are mature enough to allow Diggs back in. They do need him to win a championship. They can decide his future afterwards, and I doubt JA17 would have much objection to letting him go and coming up with a plan to re-shelf the top deck of the WR group. 14 hours ago, GaryPinC said: Let's say Diggs has a core injury or problem involving the back/chest. Painful and impacts his ability to breathe. Diggs wants to keep playing but the Bills will use him primarily as a decoy to draw coverage and lower the risk of making his injury worse. I could think of two reasons why he comes off on third down: He needs to catch his breath or he comes off so Allen has another legitimate receiving target on the most important downs. 1. Then why is he playing on less significant downs, causing him to need a breather on the most important down? Doesn’t make sense. 2. If he’s hurt enough to not be a legitimate target on third down then he’s too hurt to suit up, period. Four straight weeks of being injured but still active? Sorry, you’re dreaming here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Notably Diggs has been in on every 3rd down play in the first quarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Coot Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 23 hours ago, GaryPinC said: Let's say Diggs has a core injury or problem involving the back/chest. Painful and impacts his ability to breathe. Diggs wants to keep playing but the Bills will use him primarily as a decoy to draw coverage and lower the risk of making his injury worse. I could think of two reasons why he comes off on third down: He needs to catch his breath or he comes off so Allen has another legitimate receiving target on the most important downs. You may be onto something here. Has Diggs had COVID or another lung injury that's affecting his stamina? But remember: Nobody knows anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Apparently Gabe Davis has been taking all Diggs playing time. Stephon played a ton in the second half and did well. Need to get him out there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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