8th late-game defensive meltdown this season

[TheBrownBear]

It's one thing to have Mahomes, Hurts or Burrow do that to you.  It's a special level of ineptitude to watch the defense be so completely helpless against the likes of washed-up Russ, Mac Jones, Zach Wilson, Tyrod Taylor and Baker Mayfield in those critical moments.

[0017]

What happens to our roster if McD gets fired and we make a defensive switch? We most likely have to shift out of a lot of the lightweight lbs and zone (only) CBs, at least we have Elam 😃 and R. Douglas looks good. I’m just not ready to go defense heavy in another draft, and our team really needs a WR 2! Like badly! Blocking well isn’t a main qualification for a WR 2 in the NFL. Having said that god I hope we have a different defense on the field come training camp! 

[Captain_Quint]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

I can’t link because I didn’t save them and cannot provide screen shot because the files are too large. But here’s a copy and paste:

 

Nick Veronica @NickVeronica

Follow

The Bills have managed to lose 6 games by 6 points or less in the first 12 weeks of the season.

Congrats, no team in NFL history has done it more than that.

20 others matched that total — most recent were the 2015 Ravens & 2012 Panthers, whose D coordinator you might recognize.

 

And:

Michael F. Florio @MichaelFFlorio

 

Josh Allen threw for 339 yards and 2 TDs, while rushing for 81 and another 2 TDs. Scored 34 points. They lost.

3 times this year Josh Allen has scored to give the Bills a lead with under 2 minutes left and they've gone onto lose. It all comes down to one person

DAMNING, IF TRUE 👍 

 

[DuckyBoys]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBear said:

It's one thing to have Mahomes, Hurts or Burrow do that to you.  It's a special level of ineptitude to watch the defense be so completely helpless against the likes of washed-up Russ, Mac Jones, Zach Wilson, Tyrod Taylor and Baker Mayfield in those critical moments.

why McDermott needs to be shown the door  Roster has what he asked for.   Rotation of d linemen vs getting Allen more help and a offense that gets a lead and he cant hold one  Ever!

[0017]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBear said:

It's one thing to have Mahomes, Hurts or Burrow do that to you.  It's a special level of ineptitude to watch the defense be so completely helpless against the likes of washed-up Russ, Mac Jones, Zach Wilson, Tyrod Taylor and Baker Mayfield in those critical moments.

And then blame the offensive coordinator for the ineptitude of the team 😂

[Rubes]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

we did have the ball last this game. 20 seconds left and one timeout. Should’ve been two timeouts but Mcdummy decided to waste one trying to ice the kicker.

 

could’ve at least attempted a couple of passes to get into field goal range for the win. Instead thought the best move was to take a knee.

 

Seriously. He played for OT instead of playing for the win. Did he really learn absolutely nothing from the 13 seconds debacle? I mean, he had a whole 7 more seconds. and could have had 2 timeouts to go with it.

 

[DuckyBoys]

Just now, 0017 said:

What happens to our roster if McD gets fired and we make a defensive switch? We most likely have to shift out of a lot of the lightweight lbs and zone (only) CBs, at least we have Elam 😃 and R. Douglas looks good. I’m just not ready to go defense heavy in another draft, and our team really needs a WR 2! Like badly! Blocking well isn’t a main qualification for a WR 2 in the NFL. Having said that god I hope we have a different defense on the field come training camp! 

you can keep the scheme and gradually shift  Start with playing your best defensive guys on more snaps instead of yielding to "fresh" jags  Maybe figure out  how to stop a offense at least once in a while at the end of the game  

[Dan]

1 hour ago, Comebackkid said:

In the superbowl years they were very good at having the ball last and when it didn't work you could usually count on Bruce to make a play.  But they were very good at scoring on the last drive of the game

To be fair… Josh is pretty good at scoring on the last drive of the game.  
 

The current team’s problem is we have no one on defense that can get the stop when they get the ball back with under 2mins.  
 

…and when they do force a fumble to seal the game…the refs just step in and say uhhh no.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Dan

[HurlyBurly51]

I just remember McD repeatedly bragging about "his" D after the Denver game, (maybe not so) subtly throwing his O under the bus.  He needs to STFU, or at least take a look in the mirror.

[Shaw66]

10 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Granted, the offense has had issues over the course of the season, but it mostly shows up in the fourth quarter, generally speaking. As for the defense in such situations, they have by my count folded 8 times in late-game situations:

 

Pats game

 

Denver game

 

Philly game

 

Giants game (saved by a ridiculous non-call on the last play - that was blatant DPI)

 

Cincy -- couldn't get a stop on Cincy’s final possession late to give Allen one more chance

 

Jax: with the score 11-7 at the beginning of the fourth quarter, they give up 2 long td drives to Jax, with one drive starting at the Jax 7 yard line. Yes, there were injuries, but the D was still steamrolled late in the game — which has been par for the course. To be sure, the offense should have done more early on, but they woke up in the latter part of the game. 

 

TB - the Bills had a dominating two-TD lead and almost blew it by surrendering a penalty-riddled late TD drive and 2-point conversion followed by a near miss of a hail mary after giving up 3 completions to a team with zero timeouts, which allowed TB to get in position to make the throw.

 

First Jets game (with special teams collapsing in OT too) - they had a 13-6 lead in the 4th and gave up a 60-yard TD drive to a horrible QB, allowing the Jets to tie it. Of course, Allen was awful  in that game too, but the Bills D didn’t create any plays late either.

You know, I came here hoping you'd list them, and you did.  Then, when I read the list, I simply couldn't remember all the situations and all the endings.  My reaction:   It's happened so often, it's hard to remember them all.  And that's a sad tale.  

[Best Williams Available]

This is all fine because it’s providing the evidence needed to can the guy. You chose to be DC this year? Your D sucks, it’s cost us games and the playoffs. You’re fired.

[Dr.Sack]

Tyler Bass also missed 2 FGs in one game. 

[Rocbillsfan1]

13 hours ago, YodaMan79 said:

The team need a different philosophical approach/direction.  Since 13 seconds, it's been steady decline, that's now full on accelerating. 

Yup need a new coach

[Governor]

Wow. I forgot all about the Cincy game. His 4th quarter defense is so incredibly awful. He sucked in Carolina also. I never liked the hire.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Governor

[LABILLBACKER]

14 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Granted, the offense has had issues over the course of the season, but it mostly shows up in the fourth quarter, generally speaking. As for the defense in such situations, they have by my count folded 8 times in late-game situations:

 

Pats game

 

Denver game

 

Philly game

 

Giants game (saved by a ridiculous non-call on the last play - that was blatant DPI)

 

Cincy -- couldn't get a stop on Cincy’s final possession late to give Allen one more chance

 

Jax: with the score 11-7 at the beginning of the fourth quarter, they give up 2 long td drives to Jax, with one drive starting at the Jax 7 yard line. Yes, there were injuries, but the D was still steamrolled late in the game — which has been par for the course. To be sure, the offense should have done more early on, but they woke up in the latter part of the game. 

 

TB - the Bills had a dominating two-TD lead and almost blew it by surrendering a penalty-riddled late TD drive and 2-point conversion followed by a near miss of a hail mary after giving up 3 completions to a team with zero timeouts, which allowed TB to get in position to make the throw.

 

First Jets game (with special teams collapsing in OT too) - they had a 13-6 lead in the 4th and gave up a 60-yard TD drive to a horrible QB, allowing the Jets to tie it. Of course, Allen was awful  in that game too, but the Bills D didn’t create any plays late either.

I don't need to see anymore stats to confirm the train wreck that McDermott and his 2nd half defense is.  This dates back to 2019 and the blown 16-0 Houston game.  Sean's time in Buffalo is over.  McD loyalists have no more spins to weave.  It's over, he's awful and must be replaced immediately with a dynamic offensive coach.  Thank you for trying Clappy but you don't have the coaching chops.

[IronyAbounds]

Haven't most if not all of the collapses this season come after Milano, Jones and White were injured? It simply is difficult to overcome loss of 3 key guys like that, particularly Milano who ran the defense while on the field.

[jlgarsh]

1 minute ago, IronyAbounds said:

Haven't most if not all of the collapses this season come after Milano, Jones and White were injured? It simply is difficult to overcome loss of 3 key guys like that, particularly Milano who ran the defense while on the field.

Here are 10 games where Josh & the offense tied or took the lead in the last 2 minutes. They're 0-10 in the 10. That's a coaching failure.

[Governor]

2 minutes ago, jlgarsh said:

Here are 10 games where Josh & the offense tied or took the lead in the last 2 minutes. They're 0-10 in the 10. That's a coaching failure.

Don’t forget all of the games where we blew large leads late but somehow managed to luckily win anyway. I would love to see that list!

Edited November 28, 2023 by Governor

[LABILLBACKER]

57 minutes ago, Governor said:

Wow. I forgot all about the Cincy game. His 4th quarter defense is so incredibly awful. He sucked in Carolina also. I never liked the hire.

Why do you think Reid fired his ass.  He's got issues and he's rarely willing to call man press. Not even a little.  He's easy to plan for.  His guys had zero boundary support on that game winning drive last night.

[Governor]

15 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Why do you think Reid fired his ass.  He's got issues and he's rarely willing to call man press. Not even a little.  He's easy to plan for.  His guys had zero boundary support on that game winning drive last night.

My memory is fuzzy on those Reid/Eagles teams. It was already known that McD was a choker before he went to Carolina so I guess that’s where that came from. Reid choked in lots of different ways. lol.

 

Jim Johnson never really got it done when it mattered either.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Governor

[Einstein]

47 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

  It's over, he's awful and must be replaced immediately with a dynamic offensive coach.  Thank you for trying Clappy but you don't have the coaching chops.

 

Wow. I agree that it’s probably time to move on, but do you have zero respect for what we has done here? I don’t think he is championship caliber, but he has coaching chops. And he made this city respectable again (football wise). I will always have a fondness for McD, even though I will also admit he didn’t bring the hardware home.

 

To be honest what bugs me most about him at the moment is that he took so long to let Dorsey go. How many more games would we have won with the offense we have seen the last 2 games?

[Governor]

8 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Wow. I agree that it’s probably time to move on, but do you have zero respect for what we has done here? I don’t think he is championship caliber, but he has coaching chops. And he made this city respectable again (football wise). I will always have a fondness for McD, even though I will also admit he didn’t bring the hardware home.

 

To be honest what bugs me most about him at the moment is that he took so long to let Dorsey go. How many more games would we have won with the offense we have seen the last 2 games?

Probably none with this defense. Josh put us in a position to win in all of those games under Dorsey. It just wasn’t pretty.

[billsbackto81]

15 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Granted, the offense has had issues over the course of the season, but it mostly shows up in the fourth quarter, generally speaking. As for the defense in such situations, they have by my count folded 8 times in late-game situations:

 

Pats game

 

Denver game

 

Philly game

 

Giants game (saved by a ridiculous non-call on the last play - that was blatant DPI)

 

Cincy -- couldn't get a stop on Cincy’s final possession late to give Allen one more chance

 

Jax: with the score 11-7 at the beginning of the fourth quarter, they give up 2 long td drives to Jax, with one drive starting at the Jax 7 yard line. Yes, there were injuries, but the D was still steamrolled late in the game — which has been par for the course. To be sure, the offense should have done more early on, but they woke up in the latter part of the game. 

 

TB - the Bills had a dominating two-TD lead and almost blew it by surrendering a penalty-riddled late TD drive and 2-point conversion followed by a near miss of a hail mary after giving up 3 completions to a team with zero timeouts, which allowed TB to get in position to make the throw.

 

First Jets game (with special teams collapsing in OT too) - they had a 13-6 lead in the 4th and gave up a 60-yard TD drive to a horrible QB, allowing the Jets to tie it. Of course, Allen was awful  in that game too, but the Bills D didn’t create any plays late either.

Solid post.

 

Really puts the defense and overall season in perspective. 

[pi2000]

Aging safeties losing half step in the latter stages of games.

 

That's all it takes. 

[BBFL]

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

Aging safeties losing half step in the latter stages of games.

 

That's all it takes. 

I think that is the biggest problem as they are really key to his defense. There’s a few decent options in FA this coming year that I’d like to see an attempt at signing;

 

CJ Gardner Johnson

Antoine Winfield Jr. 
Jordan Whitehead

Kyle Dugger

Chuck Clark

Xavier McKinney

[peterpan]

20 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

we did have the ball last this game. 20 seconds left and one timeout. Should’ve been two timeouts but Mcdummy decided to waste one trying to ice the kicker.

 

could’ve at least attempted a couple of passes to get into field goal range for the win. Instead thought the best move was to take a knee.

It coulda/shoulda been 3 time outs.  McD used one on third down with the clock already stopped. 
 

and the bears went 40 yards in 7 seconds for a field goal on MNF.  The bears!!!!!

 

 

 

the big problem here is McD has refused to learn or improve.  It’s not 1990 anymore.  Driving down the field in a minute for a score isn’t hard anymore.  In fact, it’s a given.  It’s just as likely as kicking a PAT- you just assume you’ll get it every time.   But McD still plays for and settles for FGs which only guarantees we lose.  

 

 

[BeastMaster]

Say what you want about Frazier, but Poyer, Hyde, and the DB's would make plays.

 

We have gotten nothing from that group this season

 

McDermott is clearly responsible for the failure of this team and his defense

[BobbyC81]

20 hours ago, Johnnycage46 said:

It's pretty disgusting.  This year we are essentially the Chargers.  Every year I look at the Chargers with Herbert and can't believe they are a .500ish team.  Then you see their games and you see their coach and it all makes sense.  We are Chargers East this year.  Allen has eye-popping stats and we're .500.  Sucks.

They were similar with Rivers.

[mannc]

20 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

The chargers have done it too with multiple coaches lol. We are having a very chargers season this year 

True, but Justin Herbert is not in Allen’s class.

[finn]

20 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Bass has been part of the problem 

I'm speaking out of turn because I didn't do the research, but my impression is that Bass is reliable when the Bills are in charge of the game but chokes in a close game when the team really needs the points. I wonder if reality bears out my impression. 

[dave mcbride]

15 minutes ago, finn said:

I'm speaking out of turn because I didn't do the research, but my impression is that Bass is reliable when the Bills are in charge of the game but chokes in a close game when the team really needs the points. I wonder if reality bears out my impression. 

Love the Francis Bacon avatar!

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

51 minutes ago, finn said:

I'm speaking out of turn because I didn't do the research, but my impression is that Bass is reliable when the Bills are in charge of the game but chokes in a close game when the team really needs the points. I wonder if reality bears out my impression. 

 

Not sure. We likely wouldn't remember most of the kicks he misses when the Bills win. 

[finn]

47 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Love the Francis Bacon avatar!

I was wondering anyone recognized it!

[mannc]

7 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Wow. I agree that it’s probably time to move on, but do you have zero respect for what we has done here? I don’t think he is championship caliber, but he has coaching chops. And he made this city respectable again (football wise). I will always have a fondness for McD, even though I will also admit he didn’t bring the hardware home.

 

To be honest what bugs me most about him at the moment is that he took so long to let Dorsey go. How many more games would we have won with the offense we have seen the last 2 games?

You are attributing the accomplishments of Josh Allen to the Clapper… big mistake.  McDermott is cut from the same cloth as Dick Jauron, Chan Gailley, etc. 

22 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Granted, the offense has had issues over the course of the season, but it mostly shows up in the fourth quarter, generally speaking. As for the defense in such situations, they have by my count folded 8 times in late-game situations:

 

Pats game

 

Denver game

 

Philly game

 

Giants game (saved by a ridiculous non-call on the last play - that was blatant DPI)

 

Cincy -- couldn't get a stop on Cincy’s final possession late to give Allen one more chance

 

Jax: with the score 11-7 at the beginning of the fourth quarter, they give up 2 long td drives to Jax, with one drive starting at the Jax 7 yard line. Yes, there were injuries, but the D was still steamrolled late in the game — which has been par for the course. To be sure, the offense should have done more early on, but they woke up in the latter part of the game. 

 

TB - the Bills had a dominating two-TD lead and almost blew it by surrendering a penalty-riddled late TD drive and 2-point conversion followed by a near miss of a hail mary after giving up 3 completions to a team with zero timeouts, which allowed TB to get in position to make the throw.

 

First Jets game (with special teams collapsing in OT too) - they had a 13-6 lead in the 4th and gave up a 60-yard TD drive to a horrible QB, allowing the Jets to tie it. Of course, Allen was awful  in that game too, but the Bills D didn’t create any plays late either.

Game, set, match.  Thanks for playing, Sean.

[Johnnycage46]

3 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

They were similar with Rivers.

Yeah, I had been thinking about that as well.  I was talking with my brother a few weeks back and I said I was afraid we may become the Rivers-era Chargers (good regular seasons...but nothing to show for it in the trophy case).  I remain optimistic that one of these seasons luck will fall our way and Allen will get us a trophy...but man, I hope it actually happens.

[Sestak4ever]

I mentioned in a separate post that McDermott was fired by Andy Reid in Philly for failing, and basically not wanting to make defensive adjustments when it was called for. According to the article I read, Philly fans were glad to see him go. Seems like he never learned.

[colin]

dorsey had better production and got let go than what mcd has had.  even jsut over the 25 or 30 games dorsey was our OC for.

1 minute ago, Sestak4ever said:

I mentioned in a separate post that McDermott was fired by Andy Reid in Philly for failing, and basically not wanting to make defensive adjustments when it was called for. According to the article I read, Philly fans were glad to see him go. Seems like he never learned.

 

got a link to that article?

[cisco2403]

35 minutes ago, Sestak4ever said:

I mentioned in a separate post that McDermott was fired by Andy Reid in Philly for failing, and basically not wanting to make defensive adjustments when it was called for. According to the article I read, Philly fans were glad to see him go. Seems like he never learned.

I live in Philly and remember this well. He took over for Jim Johnson and his criticism was that he blitzed way too much and wasn't capable of making defensive adjustments as you state. This has been a staple issue for the defense this year that has left the DB's exposed causing several of the losses. 

[Peter]

On 11/27/2023 at 10:24 AM, dave mcbride said:

Granted, the offense has had issues over the course of the season, but it mostly shows up in the fourth quarter, generally speaking. As for the defense in such situations, they have by my count folded 8 times in late-game situations:

 

Pats game

 

Denver game

 

Philly game

 

Giants game (saved by a ridiculous non-call on the last play - that was blatant DPI)

 

Cincy -- couldn't get a stop on Cincy’s final possession late to give Allen one more chance

 

Jax: with the score 11-7 at the beginning of the fourth quarter, they give up 2 long td drives to Jax, with one drive starting at the Jax 7 yard line. Yes, there were injuries, but the D was still steamrolled late in the game — which has been par for the course. To be sure, the offense should have done more early on, but they woke up in the latter part of the game. 

 

TB - the Bills had a dominating two-TD lead and almost blew it by surrendering a penalty-riddled late TD drive and 2-point conversion followed by a near miss of a hail mary after giving up 3 completions to a team with zero timeouts, which allowed TB to get in position to make the throw.

 

First Jets game (with special teams collapsing in OT too) - they had a 13-6 lead in the 4th and gave up a 60-yard TD drive to a horrible QB, allowing the Jets to tie it. Of course, Allen was awful  in that game too, but the Bills D didn’t create any plays late either.

 

Rather than throwing others under the bus, McD needs to look at himself in the mirror.

 

At this point, I have a difficult time watching/listening to his press conferences.

[CincyBillsFan]

On 11/27/2023 at 11:01 AM, Comebackkid said:

In the superbowl years they were very good at having the ball last and when it didn't work you could usually count on Bruce to make a play.  But they were very good at scoring on the last drive of the game

I remember an AFC Championship game played in great weather against Denver at Rich Stadium.  The Bills won 10 - 7 and their only TD was a pick 6.  The Bills Super Bowl years Defense was much better then the current D has been under McD.  And when the O struggled I also remember stellar defensive playoff performances during he SB years against Pittsburgh (24 - 3 win) in the Divisional round and Miami in the AFC championship game (29 - 10 win).

 

 

On 11/27/2023 at 11:06 AM, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

We even changed up our offense to make it more charger-y.  

And that's what you get when defensive minded head coaches run the teams.