Does Allen hold some accountability for personnel decisions?

[Johnnyp566]

I see constant complaints around here with regard to the supporting cast. I believe there is plenty of blame to go around here and it should start with Beane. There has been no true effort to try and find a No. 2 receiver since John Brown left. However, Dawson Knox is making an obscene amount of money for a guy who is essentially interchangeable with about 20 other TEs in the league based on what he actually provides. This reeks of a signing that was Allen driven based on their relationship. Star players that want power and a say in personnel decisions should also thus inherit responsibility. Where does everyone fall on this? Those are critical resources that could have been used elsewhere..  

[Lost]

I would agree that Dorsey as OC, Kyle Allen as backup and resigning of Knox were all partially Josh's preference.  I don't think he had much input on any draft picks though.

[Ya Digg?]

No, he’s just the QB. Of course he’s going to give his input, why wouldn’t he? I’ve said this a 1,000 times before and I’ll say it again-Beane is also paid millions of dollars a year to make these decisions. Personnel falls on the front office and the coaches. Josh didn’t sit in a meeting with Beane and say “you better pay Dawson $12 million a year or I’m out” 

[Simon]

Knox got that contract because he's a versatile player who works hard, at the time looked like he also had more upside to get better and was also the only TE available in a very bare Bills cupboard. That's it. It had nothing to do with Allen, imo.

If Allen has any effect on personnel decisions, it's that the Bills seem to focus more on using resources to beef up their D and less on their offense because they think Allen can just turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

[extrahammer]

3 minutes ago, Johnnyp566 said:

I see constant complaints around here with regard to the supporting cast. I believe there is plenty of blame to go around here and it should start with Beane. There has been no true effort to try and find a No. 2 receiver since John Brown left. However, Dawson Knox is making an obscene amount of money for a guy who is essentially interchangeable with about 20 other TEs in the league based on what he actually provides. This reeks of a signing that was Allen driven based on their relationship. Star players that want power and a say in personnel decisions should also thus inherit responsibility. Where does everyone fall on this? Those are critical resources that could have been used elsewhere..  

 

Not sure if Josh insisted on that deal, but I didn't think Knox deserved that kinda deal based on his play.

[BBFL]

I doubt it honestly, especially considering how he’s performed with just Diggs as the absolute only consistent option on offense. 
 

Green Bay did little to accommodate Rodgers and look what that did over time… 

 

When you’re able to polish 💩 as a QB I get how there is a reluctance to assign resources on a unit that is performing well. 
 

New England did the same thing… draft pretty much TEs for a QB with some mid-low round WRs. The only difference there is they always invested in actually protecting Tommy by improving OLine play. 
 

Let’s hope they figure at least that part out for Josh before it becomes too little too late. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

I'm sure Allen has given his input. It was pretty heavily implied that last year he really wanted Beasley and Brown back. I've also heard that Josh had sent a message to Beane about Kincaid on draft day. And we all know Dorsey was the frontrunner for the OC job...and he happened to be who Josh wanted.

 

I believe there is a delicate balance of hearing his input and then deciding if what he wants is feasible and makes sense. In other words last year he wanted Cole back. At that point it's on Beane to weigh the options out there. If he felt there were better choices he would go that way. All things even, I think Allen's wants may break a tie.

Edited November 18, 2023 by BuffaloBillyG

[frostbitmic]

Josh may have had input on bringing back Brown and Beasley last season and maybe Gentry to the PS a few years ago but I don't think he has much say in the major decisions.

 

In promoting Dorsey to OC, I'm guessing McBeane asked Josh if he could work with Dorsey and Josh said yes... there's your recommendation.

[Don Otreply]

There “would” be blame on say, for instance Allen,  if he was “insisting” that say Knox be signed, or any other player that under performs, but that would come down to Beane/McDermott for buckling, but I doubt that Allen  has that sort of influence.

 

Imo, most if not all of the offensive woes come down to a patchwork quilt for an O-line (since day one), which creates endless negative outcomes, add on the poor use of existing personnel, (and yes we need to get a better #2 WR and make Davis the stud #3 he can totally be). These are the things that negatively effect Allen’s play.  Fix those things and the offense will shine, again jmo. Sure hope Joe Brady has his OC sh-t together and gets it right, right away. 
 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited November 18, 2023 by Don Otreply

[90sBills]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

Knox got that contract because he's a versatile player who works hard, at the time looked like he also had more upside to get better and was also the only TE available in a very bare Bills cupboard. That's it. It had nothing to do with Allen, imo.

If Allen has any effect on personnel decisions, it's that the Bills seem to focus more on using resources to beef up their D and less on their offense because they think Allen can just turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

Agree with all the reasons for signing Knox to that long term deal. Do you think he would’ve gotten as much in the open market? I think the Bills overpaid and it’s partly because of Allen’s relationship with Knox. 
 

[Johnnyp566]

2 minutes ago, 90sBills said:

Agree with all the reasons for signing Knox to that long term deal. Do you think he would’ve gotten as much in the open market? I think the Bills overpaid and it’s partly because of Allen’s relationship with Knox. 
 

Well said 

[Johnnycage46]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

 

If Allen has any effect on personnel decisions, it's that the Bills seem to focus more on using resources to beef up their D and less on their offense because they think Allen can just turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

 

I knew a guy who did that once

[Chaos]

3 hours ago, Johnnyp566 said:

I see constant complaints around here with regard to the supporting cast. I believe there is plenty of blame to go around here and it should start with Beane. There has been no true effort to try and find a No. 2 receiver since John Brown left. However, Dawson Knox is making an obscene amount of money for a guy who is essentially interchangeable with about 20 other TEs in the league based on what he actually provides. This reeks of a signing that was Allen driven based on their relationship. Star players that want power and a say in personnel decisions should also thus inherit responsibility. Where does everyone fall on this? Those are critical resources that could have been used elsewhere..  

no

[Mr. WEO]

come on

[Mango]

3 hours ago, Lost said:

I would agree that Dorsey as OC, Kyle Allen as backup and resigning of Knox were all partially Josh's preference.  I don't think he had much input on any draft picks though.

Don’t forget Matt Barkley and Tanner Gentry. 
 

I think the org needs to pull some decision making back from Josh.
 

That said, I have no idea how much say he has over all things Gabe Davis, draft, etc. 

[Coach Tuesday]

What’s happening in Gaza is Allen’s fault, too.

[DuckyBoys]

they overpaid Knox based on their philosophy of drafting/retaining their own.   Josh had zero to do with it  Have to show your draft picks were up to snuff by keeping mediocre players at top 10 starter money

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

4 hours ago, Johnnyp566 said:

I see constant complaints around here with regard to the supporting cast. I believe there is plenty of blame to go around here and it should start with Beane. There has been no true effort to try and find a No. 2 receiver since John Brown left. However, Dawson Knox is making an obscene amount of money for a guy who is essentially interchangeable with about 20 other TEs in the league based on what he actually provides. This reeks of a signing that was Allen driven based on their relationship. Star players that want power and a say in personnel decisions should also thus inherit responsibility. Where does everyone fall on this? Those are critical resources that could have been used elsewhere..  

 

 

Knox is either 8th or 9th highest paid TE in the league and most of the players behind him pay wise are on contacts expiring this coming off season which likely means by this time next year, Knox may be like the 17th highest paid TE or lower.  With the emergence of Kincaid, he very likely will become the Bills primary blocking TE, but also one of the better blocking TE's who can actually catch passes and run routes in the league so can't just ignore him.  He won't be the next Lee Smith!

 

Did Allen give input sure, but to say they were signed and given big contracts because of Allen is just laughable.  From what's been written, there has been an effort to find a #2 WR, talks with OBJ, Hopkins, and who knows who else.  But they also didn't have the money to spend.  Add into that hope that Davis would develop also factored in so don't want to spend big money on a player when the answer may be with a guy on a rookie contract.

[Simon]

2 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Agree with all the reasons for signing Knox to that long term deal. Do you think he would’ve gotten as much in the open market? I think the Bills overpaid and it’s partly because of Allen’s relationship with Knox. 
 

 

I suck with salary cap and contract stuff so I have no idea what he might have been worth on the open market when the contract was signed.

Judging by the other extensions/re-signings that Bean has done, there's no real pattern of him wildly overpaying so I'd guess his contract was pretty close to what his market value would have been at the time.

[4th&long]

Lol!

[Simon]

2 hours ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

I knew a guy who did that once

 

I bet he had one pissed off pig.

 

[GoBills808]

Yes it's very annoying how he keeps demanding all these defensive linemen 

[BananaB]

If Beane and McD are letting Allen dictate what’s going on it’s another reason why they need a change. It’s ok to ask what he thinks but if they feel they have to please him on every decision the Pegulas gotta get a new staff.  

[CookieG]

5 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

There “would” be blame on say, for instance Allen,  if he was “insisting” that say Knox be signed, or any other player that under performs, but that would come down to Beane/McDermott for buckling, but I doubt that Allen  has that sort of influence.

 

Imo, most if not all of the offensive woes come down to a patchwork quilt for an O-line (since day one), which creates endless negative outcomes, add on the poor use of existing personnel, (and yes we need to get a better #2 WR and make Davis the stud #3 he can totally be). These are the things that negatively effect Allen’s play.  Fix those things and the offense will shine, again jmo. Sure hope Joe Brady has his OC sh-t together and gets it right, right away. 
 

GO BILLS!!!

Except for 1 or 2 games, the Oline has been very good i pass pro.  And the Jets game, though he was sacked often, the Oline was actually pretty good in pass pro.

 

Which is why I don't agree with the  statement, "fix those and the offense will shine again"...and it makes me cringe a little.  Because I see pass pro far better than say, last year, but the turnovers haven't decreased. They actually increased.  

 

He's still not seeing wide open receivers, and on nearly every INT...there was someone open elsewhere. 

 

I know, I think the OP was hinting at personnel decisions Josh might have affected, but he needs to be held accountable for his field vision lapses. 

 

How? Idk.  But turnovers area huge factor on how the O is playing, and he is the major contributor to the turnovers.

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

If  Beane and McDemott are offering g poor contracts to appease Allen who should be held responsible for that?   Hint it’s not Allen. 

[Scott7975]

No.  Josh can wants who he wants all day.  It's still McD and Beane making the decisions.  Just because Josh provides his input doesn't mean he makes the decisions.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, 90sBills said:

Agree with all the reasons for signing Knox to that long term deal. Do you think he would’ve gotten as much in the open market? I think the Bills overpaid and it’s partly because of Allen’s relationship with Knox. 
 

Easily gotten that much on the open market.  

Knox still has untapped potential.  Lets see what a anew OC can do with him when he comes back healthy. 

2 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I suck with salary cap and contract stuff so I have no idea what he might have been worth on the open market when the contract was signed.

Judging by the other extensions/re-signings that Bean has done, there's no real pattern of him wildly overpaying so I'd guess his contract was pretty close to what his market value would have been at the time.

Beane is hit and miss.  Starr, Miller, and Murphy were grossly overpaid.  Morse was overpaid but not by that much. Yet he got Beasley, Milano, and even Allen to sign deals that were fair market.

[Alphadawg7]

7 hours ago, Simon said:

Knox got that contract because he's a versatile player who works hard, at the time looked like he also had more upside to get better and was also the only TE available in a very bare Bills cupboard. That's it. It had nothing to do with Allen, imo.

If Allen has any effect on personnel decisions, it's that the Bills seem to focus more on using resources to beef up their D and less on their offense because they think Allen can just turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

 

Exactly and I am stunned that this even has to be explained

[ProcessTruster]

17 is a lot more responsible for the teams current position than fans are willing to admit.   that is clear from this board

[Thrivefourfive]

11 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

No, he’s just the QB. Of course he’s going to give his input, why wouldn’t he? I’ve said this a 1,000 times before and I’ll say it again-Beane is also paid millions of dollars a year to make these decisions. Personnel falls on the front office and the coaches. Josh didn’t sit in a meeting with Beane and say “you better pay Dawson $12 million a year or I’m out” 

Keep Josh happy signing. 

[Trogdor]

You don't let a young still developing QB pick the coordinator. That's something you do for polished savvy vets who are looking for someone to basically help. Allowing a guy with no play calling experience take over a team like this is a strike against Beane and McDermott. IMO Dorsey was tailor-made for McD in that he also had an outdated way of viewing offense and he wasn't going to go against what he wanted. 

[Mark Vader]

11 hours ago, Johnnyp566 said:

I see constant complaints around here with regard to the supporting cast. I believe there is plenty of blame to go around here and it should start with Beane. There has been no true effort to try and find a No. 2 receiver since John Brown left. However, Dawson Knox is making an obscene amount of money for a guy who is essentially interchangeable with about 20 other TEs in the league based on what he actually provides. This reeks of a signing that was Allen driven based on their relationship. Star players that want power and a say in personnel decisions should also thus inherit responsibility. Where does everyone fall on this? Those are critical resources that could have been used elsewhere..  

What makes you so certain of this? What proof do you have that this is the case?

 

I'll give you the answer.....You don't have the first clue.

[CincyBillsFan]

12 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

17 is a lot more responsible for the teams current position than fans are willing to admit.   that is clear from this board

In 2019/2020 the Bills made a choice about how they would build their team with a superb franchise QB at the helm.  They chose the path that would have worked in the 1990's through 2010:  let your QB elevate a pedestrian group of offensive players and focus your resources on creating an elite, shutdown defense.

 

And for a couple of season's it sort of worked with a 2020 trip to the AFC championship and if not for "13 seconds" a likley SB trip in 2021.  Both of these were on the back of great play by Allen.  Though concern had to be expressed that the defense was not rising to the occasion in the playoffs with only one dominant performance in 6 playoff games to that point.

 

But now we can see that this choice, which has potentially squandered a generational talent at QB, has failed utterly.   While the Bills were following one script the teams that have been going to and winning SB's have following another script.  One that involved concentrating as much skill player talent and the best O line possible around their elite QB's:  The Rams, the Chiefs (who set the template), the Bengals, the Eagles and Tampa Bay.  Hell, even in our division we've apparently been eclipsed by Miami which has followed the correct script with a lesser QB.

 

We can argue about Allen, or Davis, or the play calls or whatever but it's like arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic as it goes down and ignoring the role of the iceberg.

 

 

 

 

[Johnnyp566]

14 hours ago, Trogdor said:

You don't let a young still developing QB pick the coordinator. That's something you do for polished savvy vets who are looking for someone to basically help. Allowing a guy with no play calling experience take over a team like this is a strike against Beane and McDermott. IMO Dorsey was tailor-made for McD in that he also had an outdated way of viewing offense and he wasn't going to go against what he wanted. 

Quoted for truth.

14 hours ago, Mark Vader said:

What makes you so certain of this? What proof do you have that this is the case?

 

I'll give you the answer.....You don't have the first clue.

He did have major say in the choice of Len Dorsey..you know the OC.. dude has influence. If you don’t believe that then you are lost in the sauce my friend. 

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, Johnnyp566 said:

Quoted for truth.

He did have major say in the choice of Len Dorsey..you know the OC.. dude has influence. If you don’t believe that then you are lost in the sauce my friend. 

Did I say anything about Len Dorsey? No.

 

You make it sound like Josh Allen were Dawson Knox's agent and arranged the contract. Get real.

[TheWeatherMan]

On 11/18/2023 at 3:33 PM, Simon said:

Knox got that contract because he's a versatile player who works hard, at the time looked like he also had more upside to get better and was also the only TE available in a very bare Bills cupboard. That's it. It had nothing to do with Allen, imo.

If Allen has any effect on personnel decisions, it's that the Bills seem to focus more on using resources to beef up their D and less on their offense because they think Allen can just turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

McBean has been in love with Dawson since the day they were able to draft him.  I remember them gushing about him on the draft day clips.  

[Mark Vader]

16 hours ago, ProcessTruster said:

17 is a lot more responsible for the teams current position than fans are willing to admit.   that is clear from this board

Is he responsible for all of the contracts that goes to every player on the team?

[Ya Digg?]

42 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

Is he responsible for all of the contracts that goes to every player on the team?

If you believe some of the irrational hoop jumping some people do here, then yes 

[LABILLBACKER]

On 11/18/2023 at 6:31 AM, Lost said:

I would agree that Dorsey as OC, Kyle Allen as backup and resigning of Knox were all partially Josh's preference.  I don't think he had much input on any draft picks though.

I think Josh needs to dial back some of his "suggestions". 

[uninja]

23 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I suck with salary cap and contract stuff so I have no idea what he might have been worth on the open market when the contract was signed.

Judging by the other extensions/re-signings that Bean has done, there's no real pattern of him wildly overpaying so I'd guess his contract was pretty close to what his market value would have been at the time.

Knox is a good player, a very credible red zone threat and a decent blocker in an offense where he was never obviously the first read. His contract is honestly fine. 
 

Think people just have really unrealistic expectations because they see players like Kelce, Kittle where they are a focal point of the offense.