We are now the worst defense in the league

[Sherlock Holmes]

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

It’s mind blowing to me to hear all the people say last night was a heroic performance by this defense considering….We got absolutely embarrassed on every 3rd or 4th down. The Bengals stopped themselves a few times by playing with their food. Guys ran wide open through the Swiss cheese zone. We never tackle, can’t cover, NEVER EVER make a big stop to give it back to our offense. Anytime ever, that McD has a shot to get a stop and get it back….NEVER do we make a stop. Zero exceptions. This defense sucks. And it puts so much pressure on the offense to be perfect.

Opposing offenses don't even have to make contested catches, the nearest DB is like 5 yards away at all times allowing 20+ yard catches before YAC every play. Runs are automatic 5+ yards too before we even try to tackle.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

19 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

How many games started with back to back 5+ minute TD drives this season?

 

I think the answer is one. I don't want to click through all those boxscores again though. 

 

Our defense had one of the worst (maybe THE worst) 1st Q of any game played across the NFL this season, and we have people in here blaming the offense. 

 

You can say that the DEF is doing as well as can be expected after the injuries, but that doesn't change the fact that the DEF has been awful. 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The offense has the ability to improve now. The defense doesn’t. The defense will get worse, look at the schedule.

I don't know about that. I think Douglas and Joseph are genuine upgrades, so I expect them to improve a bit. They have a real one-technique who can play and a CB who is good in zone and actually makes interceptions. They were missing both.

[Nuncha]

1 hour ago, Rubes said:

Definitely not good. At the same time, I’m eager to see how that changes once the new guys acclimate and start playing more. Maybe we’ll even see Miller start getting back to form before it’s too late.

 

Holding the Bengals to 3 points in the second half last night could be a sign of things to come.

 

Miller time was lost last Thanksgiving.  Stick a fork in him.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Opposing offenses don't even have to make contested catches, the nearest DB is like 5 yards away at all times allowing 20+ yard catches before YAC every play. Runs are automatic 5+ yards too before we even try to tackle.

Again last night our dbs were 7+ yards off the wr.  He'll never change.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I think the answer is one. I don't want to click through all those boxscores again though. 

 

Our defense had one of the worst (maybe THE worst) 1st Q of any game played across the NFL this season, and we have people in here blaming the offense. 

 

You can say that the DEF is doing as well as can be expected after the injuries, but that doesn't change the fact that the DEF has been awful. 

 

No team has scored 30 points on the bills this season.  Buffalo is 5-1 if they hold the opponent to 20 or less (included the jets here), and 0-3 if the opponent scores 21 or more. 

 

The Bills have been held under 21 points 4 times this year.  To act like there isn't an issue with the offense is not accurate.  

[Billever76]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

McDermott is coaching the defense scared right now. It’s going to be a bend and sometimes break defense the rest of the season.

Offense better get going or we’re looking at a top 10 pick. 
 

I’ve always said you are what you’re record is but they deserve to be 4-5 right now with the hard part of the schedule coming up.

 

Lol McDermott entire scheme is based on being scared.

Scared of the big play so you are content to watch EVERY last good offense control the time of possession and pace of the game....it's like a cat playing with a mouse when it comes to good qbs and good offenses...they may let you feel you have a shot until it gets time and then down the hatch and the mouse (McDermott defense) is swallowed whole lol

[Buffalo_Stampede]

7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I don't know about that. I think Douglas and Joseph are genuine upgrades, so I expect them to improve a bit. They have a real one-technique who can play and a CB who is good in zone and actually makes interceptions. They were missing both.

They aren’t going from the worst defense in the league to good because of Douglas and Joseph.

 

The problem is they have Eagles, Chiefs, Cowboys, Chargers, and Dolphins left.

[McBean]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

This isn't a hot take. It's supported by analytics:

 

I understand the injuries. But we have a defensive head coach and we are literally the worst defense in the league since the Jaguars game.

 

And I get why fans are focusing on the offense, but none of that matters to our Super Bowl aspirations if the defense doesn't get back to at least the top half of the league.

Fire FRAZIER!

 

Right McClap lovers?

11 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Again last night our dbs were 7+ yards off the wr.  He'll never change.

And to think poor Leslie Frazier got the blame…

 

just like Dorsey will get the blame…

 

just like Brandon Beane will eventually get the blame..

 

This McClap guy is going to be our Marvin Lewis. Mark it down.

[Scott7975]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Because his play calling and personnel usage has absolutely been an issue. He has put his defense in bad spots at the end of games against the Jaguars, Pats, and Bengals. Poor blitz timing has led to backbreaking conversions on multiple 3rd downs.

 

I mean you really think the only reason that our defense is the worst in the league is injuries? No way we have the worst defensive roster in the league, I refuse to believe that even with the injuries. So that leaves coaching as a major issue.

 

Playcalling - everyone around here wanted Frazier out because he wasn't aggressive and on 3rd down he would only rush 3-4.  Now we blitz people and people are all up in arms about that.  Can't have it both ways.  The problem with the Blitz is the other team sees it coming and and our guys don't get home, not that he actually calls it.  Although, I do think he is a bit blitz heavy.

 

Yes, those injuries matter. Milano is our best linebacker and was all over the field making plays.  Next to him is a guy that is playing well but its still his first year of experience and as well as he is playing, isn't an all pro like Milano.  That loss matters.  Our pressure up the middle on the line took a hit and now we have a fat phillips and another guy that basically stand at the line doing not much.  That loss matters.  Our best corner, despite what people say about him, was back into his all pro like form when he went down.  We have one guy that was drafted in the first round and gets torched so he can't even get on the gameday roster, another guy that is ok but no world beater, and another guy that was probably our best player on the field last night but has had some bad games this year.  Poyer who has been an all pro player for us looks old and slow and isn't making the same impact and thats not because of coaching.  The guys that helped create turnovers, hold star receivers in check, and gave good push in the middle of the line are mostly out for the season.  That makes a difference.

 

DVOA doesn't make us the worst defense in the league either.  Holding the Bengals to 24 points while the offense did nothing the entire game outside of 3 drives, one of which ended in a turnover and also turned the ball over the first play of the second drive against a superbowl contender with a top 5 qb in their house is a good game.

 

The only thing I put on defense is allowing that game winning drive against the Pats.  Outside of that they have played good enough. You should be worried about this ass offense Dorsey puts out every week instead.  They aren't going to win many games if they can't score.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Scott7975

[dma0034]

It's because the defense has been the same for the laat 3/4 years. They are frontrunners that can't stop the run. The defense relies on the Offense too much. If the Bills get out to a 14-3 lead then the defense can just focus on getting to the QB. When that can't be their main factor and teams can run the Defense becomes completely exposed.

 

I actually think McDermott is slowing down the Offense to make the Defense look better.

[Rubes]

13 minutes ago, Nuncha said:

Miller time was lost last Thanksgiving.  Stick a fork in him.

 

I think you expect too much from a guy who is still less than a year out from an ACL. People complained all last year about White and his performance. Didn't hear too much of that this year.

 

[BananaB]

9 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

No team has scored 30 points on the bills this season.  Buffalo is 5-1 if they hold the opponent to 20 or less (included the jets here), and 0-3 if the opponent scores 21 or more. 

 

The Bills have been held under 21 points 4 times this year.  To act like there isn't an issue with the offense is not accurate.  

There is an issue on O, it’s that they keep using money and draft picks to build this ***** defense while bringing in scrubs on O hoping Allen can even everything out. Our biggest problem last year was WRs core and Beane went out and got us two guys who haven’t combined for 100 catches. Another problem was the line, we got a guy who couldn’t hold a job in Dallas at numerous positions and a rookie. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

9 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

No team has scored 30 points on the bills this season.  Buffalo is 5-1 if they hold the opponent to 20 or less (included the jets here), and 0-3 if the opponent scores 21 or more. 

 

The Bills have been held under 21 points 4 times this year.  To act like there isn't an issue with the offense is not accurate.  

 

I don't think anyone is claiming the offense has been perfect and without blame. Just pointing out the DEF has been complete garbage

[Carmel Corn]

20 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Prior to this year, Sean McDermott has done the following in the first 3 rounds of the draft:

 

2022:

Round 1: Defense

Round 2: Offense - James Cook

Round 3: Defense

 

2021:

Round 1: Defense

Round 2: Defense

Round 3: Offense - Spencer Brown

 

2020: 

Round 2: Defense

Round 3: Offense - Zack Moss

 

2019: 

Round 1: Defense

Round 2: Offense - Cody Ford

Round 3: Offense - Devin Singletary

Round 3: Offense - Dawson Knox

 

Big free agent dollars:

DaQuan Jones

Von Miller

 

Expensive defensive re-signings:

Jordan Poyer

Micah Hyde 

Taron Johnson

Ed Oliver

 

People might want to give McDermott a pass on injuries? Ok ... well the Bills spent a TON of draft capital on defense and a TON of free agent dollars on defense as well. For such a defensive genius, you'd think we wouldn't be ranked bottom in the league.

IMHO - this is the root of our current problems (besides coaching).  Our drafting has been HORRIBLE in terms of impact players on D.  Bad scouting?  Bad GM?  Bad McD judgment?  I don't know who is the driver behind all these  bad picks, but we have had to depend on FA signings to help cover our poor drafting.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, BillsFanSD said:

The offense is a bigger issue right now because the only way we can possibly win games against teams like Cinci is to win a track meet.  We absolutely need the offense to be great, because the defense is what it is (bad).

 

Correct. And there has not nearly as much investment on the offensive side of the ball so it's not realistic to expect them to carry the team in shootouts. The offense could certainly be much better but trying to put up 30 points a game deep into January with no running game and Gabe Davis as the #2 WR, that's an impossible ask.

[newcam2012]

18 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I think the answer is one. I don't want to click through all those boxscores again though. 

 

Our defense had one of the worst (maybe THE worst) 1st Q of any game played across the NFL this season, and we have people in here blaming the offense. 

 

You can say that the DEF is doing as well as can be expected after the injuries, but that doesn't change the fact that the DEF has been awful. 

Who is the defensive coordinator on the team? 

 

After the game, the media asked McD about why the offense quickly abandoned the quick pace offense. He responded "I don't know." Let that sink in.

 

 

 

[BananaB]

10 minutes ago, McBean said:

Fire FRAZIER!

 

Right McClap lovers?

And to think poor Leslie Frazier got the blame…

 

just like Dorsey will get the blame…

 

just like Brandon Beane will eventually get the blame..

 

This McClap guy is going to be our Marvin Lewis. Mark it down.

I was all for fire Frazier because I figured with McD taking over the D there would be no more excuses. He either gets it done or doesn’t. 

[Capco]

According to the first five pages, there seems to be an even number of folks blaming the offense or the defense.  

Based on that, I think I'm gonna blame both lol.  

[Nuncha]

14 minutes ago, Rubes said:

 

I think you expect too much from a guy who is still less than a year out from an ACL. People complained all last year about White and his performance. Didn't hear too much of that this year.

 

Von Miller is nearly 35 years old and coming off a torn ACL.  White is 28.  Huge difference.  Miller is toast.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Nuncha

[newcam2012]

3 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I don't think anyone is claiming the offense has been perfect and without blame. Just pointing out the DEF has been complete garbage

To be honest, the Bills have problems on both sides of the ball. 

 

The defense at least has a legitimate excuse with injuries to their star players. Anyone who thinks this defense is solid or good is out of touch with reality. 

 

The offense on the other hand has zero excuses. Pretty much everyone is healthy except Knox. Their performance after the Miami game has been terrible. Another poster broke down the inefficiency. 

 

The offensive woes have to largely fall on coaching, play calling, schemes, and lack of talent. That's the short end of the story.

 

In short, the team has gotten worse on both sides of the ball. The coaching is not good. It all equals mediocrity. Thus, 5-4 is an accurate picture of the team. 

[colin]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

Sure it does, but WLB is the least important position on the defense. I can't attribute all of the ineptitude to injuries. I think a lot of it is just McDermott's play calling to be honest. We gave up two quick TD drives to start the game. Most drives featured a 3rd down conversion that came off of a terrible play call. And then from there we mostly let the Bengals move the ball down the field. We would stop them at the 40-50 or so, but that meant we lost the field position battle for pretty much the entire game. When you're chasing a team and losing field position for an entire game, that is not a recipe for success.

 

dude, this.

 

collinsworthless was saying "they keep calling that the safety is coming, or (whatever else the cue they kept saying was).  im not sure how they can always tell" which means they scouted the bills and saw how OBVIOUS what we are doing is.  on the flip side, we seemed to have tremendous issues figuring out protections and and not having guys run into each other on O.

 

mcd get the d a bit better after the first two drives, and they even had some solid outings, but we scored two flipping tds all day, so allowing them to have 2 lay ups to start the game is just not on.

 

both our o and d are playing way below their abilities, but when our d has a weak player (dodson) or some kind of other issue (rushing 6 on 3rd and 10 with no one touching the qb at all) and can be read presnap like an open book, it's clear we don't have our head on straight as a defensive football team and that is what mcd makes millions for.

[Lionel Hutz]

I’ve said for years that the defense has been overrated under McDermott. The stats are misleading because they played well when we had a big lead or against lesser opponents. When the pressure is on they always seem to come up short.

 

We need an offensive minded head coach and a good defensive coordinator.

[Buffalo03]

36 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Because his play calling and personnel usage has absolutely been an issue. He has put his defense in bad spots at the end of games against the Jaguars, Pats, and Bengals. Poor blitz timing has led to backbreaking conversions on multiple 3rd downs.

 

I mean you really think the only reason that our defense is the worst in the league is injuries? No way we have the worst defensive roster in the league, I refuse to believe that even with the injuries. So that leaves coaching as a major issue.

We had a top D in the league when all our starters played. We have the worst D in the league when we are missing half our starters and more guys are going down each game. This isn't rocket science. The injuries are the problem. 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Those first weeks aren't opponent adjusted either

 

It's been worse than that even

 

I think they are now retrospectively opponent adjusted. Not 100% but think that is how it works. After week 6 they start opponent adjusting and they don't only do it for the games from then on I think they go back and adjust for the entire season.

[newcam2012]

9 minutes ago, colin said:

 

dude, this.

 

collinsworthless was saying "they keep calling that the safety is coming, or (whatever else the cue they kept saying was).  im not sure how they can always tell" which means they scouted the bills and saw how OBVIOUS what we are doing is.  on the flip side, we seemed to have tremendous issues figuring out protections and and not having guys run into each other on O.

 

mcd get the d a bit better after the first two drives, and they even had some solid outings, but we scored two flipping tds all day, so allowing them to have 2 lay ups to start the game is just not on.

 

both our o and d are playing way below their abilities, but when our d has a weak player (dodson) or some kind of other issue (rushing 6 on 3rd and 10 with no one touching the qb at all) and can be read presnap like an open book, it's clear we don't have our head on straight as a defensive football team and that is what mcd makes millions for.

Bingo!

6 minutes ago, Lionel Hutz said:

I’ve said for years that the defense has been overrated under McDermott. The stats are misleading because they played well when we had a big lead or against lesser opponents. When the pressure is on they always seem to come up short.

 

We need an offensive minded head coach and a good defensive coordinator.

100% on board with this!

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Huh? Jones was freaking phenomenal for all of 2022. He's without question one of the best players on the team. White was also playing extremely well before getting hurt. They've also had scattered injuries throughout too - Oliver out vs NE, Rousseau out vs the Giants, Bernard, Benford, and Hyde going out last night. They have been DECIMATED. 

 

Phenominal's a bit embellishing for a DT that logged a sack and a pair of half-sacks, 3 TFLs, and 11 QB Hits on a 16-game season.  

 

As to White, we all know that White hasn't been the player that he was since getting hurt and hasn't recovered yet to date.  Douglas will be better.  So there's that, which is a wash.  

 

The primary player is Milano, and that situation is the creation of McBeane, the depth part of it.  

 

Either way, other teams suffer worse injuries than we have without dropping from the top of the rankings to the bottom of them.  

 

Some are using that as an excuse to defend McD and Beane if we can be honest.  Yes, it's a hit, but not that big of a hit.  

 

 

1 hour ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

2 week span they lose 3 starters for the year.  Take out Reader, Pratt, and Taylor-Britt from Cincy yesterday - it's going to take some time for a team to adjust to the new group of guys.  

 

If you do a man-to-man analysis of their D vs. ours yesterday, as it was on the field, ours is better.  Take a look at their secondary some time.  There's no way theirs even approaches ours.  The front-7 is comparable.  

 

And three starters, what, we're the only team to have lost three (or more) starters without having melted down?  

 

On a related note, take a look at where their front-7 starters as they were on the field yesterday were drafted when you have a few minutes. 

 

 

[The Jokeman]

23 minutes ago, Lionel Hutz said:

I’ve said for years that the defense has been overrated under McDermott. The stats are misleading because they played well when we had a big lead or against lesser opponents. When the pressure is on they always seem to come up short.

 

We need an offensive minded head coach and a good defensive coordinator.

Taron Johnson needs to play a lesser role IMHO and we need a true big nickel or 3rd LB to play on 1st and 2nd downs. As his struggles this year are becoming more and more obvious as the year continues..same thing for Poyer and to a degree Hyde. 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Yes the injuries are that bad. 

 

Jones since being in Buffalo has elevated his game.  Lorenzo Alexander's performance elevated when he came to Buffalo.  

It doesn't matter that he wasn't excellent in his years prior, he was with Buffalo.

 

Milano is 1 or 2 as the best off the ball linebacker in the NFL.

DaQuan was playing the best ball if his career.

Tre White may not be an All Pro anymore but he's still our best corner.

 

Those are high level players at every level.  

 

Now with the signings of Joseph and Douglas, the defense should start getting it right.

 

Last night wasn't bad.  It's a success if you can hold Burrow to 24 points.  We should not lose for giving up 24 points with the offensive talent we have.

 

OK, agree to disagree. 

 

They're a hit, but such that, and with our replacements now, like Douglas who's playing better than White has in two seasons, it drops a team from #1/#2 overall to DFL, nah, no way.  

 

 

 

 

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

This isn't a hot take. It's supported by analytics:

 

I understand the injuries. But we have a defensive head coach and we are literally the worst defense in the league since the Jaguars game.

 

And I get why fans are focusing on the offense, but none of that matters to our Super Bowl aspirations if the defense doesn't get back to at least the top half of the league.

No shock when missing both starting lb, cb1, DT, and DE1 is in recovery mode

 

we are the defense with the most cap dollars out, and that’s with von playing right?

 

would also be nice to play with a lead occasionally 

[ProcessTruster]

didn't see most of the game but Cinci scored, what, 24 points?    plus had 2 turnovers to work with.  seems the D did pretty well.  sounds to me like the other side of the ball had a bad night 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Don't focus on counting stats with him. Focus on his ability to anchor and allow other players to flow to the ball. He was a wrecking crew last season. I mean, that isn't even really debatable.

 

Of course not, but like everyone was focusing on his 2.5 sacks, 3 TFLs, and 5 QBHits over three games, a pace of 13 sacks, 17 TFLs, and 28 QB Hits, nearly his 9-season total, over three games, you're saying don't do that then like everyone is in establishing how much of a force he's been this season?  

 

Roger.   

 

 

[Dr.Sack]

It’s time to IR some guys. 

 

 

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

 

It will be sad but you have to cut White this off season. He is done. Ideally you do an injury settlement and he retires as a post June cut in 2025 just like Eric Wood and Kam Chancellor did.

 

I'd let Benford get some snaps at safety this week. 

 

 

[TheBrownBear]

The truth is the last 5 weeks, save for a quarter here and there, have been bad football all around.  It's not all on the offense or all on the defense.  They've both been bad.  Special teams too.  We are generally failing in all aspects right now. 

[PBF81]

BTW, here are our available starters on D after the longer-term injuries generally speaking:  

 

Groot 

Floyd/Miller 

Oliver 

Phillips 

 

Dodson

Bernard 

 

Johnson

Jackson

Benford 

Poyer 

Hyde 

 

There's only Milano and Jones without comparable backups.  Two players, not a "decimation" nor anything close.  It's a few injuries, key ones, but hardly anything many other teams haven't seen without falling apart from the levels of 1st overall to DFL overall.  

 

That secondary should be fine.  And maybe it's time to ditch Hyde with his never-ending injury concerns too.  But that's a Beane thing.  We also have Floyd which we didn't have last season.  

 

Maybe time to see what McD really has in terms of coaching up the D.  In Carolina his Ds there averaged 17th scoring in his six seasons there.  

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, LeviF said:

Friendly reminder that the GOAT (yes it's Brady) has zero rings in years without a top ten defense and only one Super Bowl appearance during those years.

 

Bills have zero rings with 4 top 5 D's and Josh Allen.

[nedboy7]

It's a defense of backups.  Again..... D is not the reason we suck right now. 

[y2zipper]

1 hour ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I don't think anyone is claiming the offense has been perfect and without blame. Just pointing out the DEF has been complete garbage

 

The offense is scoring 20 points a game The last 5 weeks, which basically ranks around where the Chicago bears do for reference. The offense has been atrocious and that's really what the issue is with the team and why McDermott should be fired. I don't trust him to pick the next coordinator so I'd rather fire him and let somebody else do it.

[TAinLack.]

3 hours ago, HappyDays said:

This isn't a hot take. It's supported by analytics:

 

I understand the injuries. But we have a defensive head coach and we are literally the worst defense in the league since the Jaguars game.

 

And I get why fans are focusing on the offense, but none of that matters to our Super Bowl aspirations if the defense doesn't get back to at least the top half of the league.

Time for a separate, new D.C.