McD much better D coordinator than Frazier

[SoMAn]

4 hours ago, Simon said:

 

The last time we saw Frazier's defense it was missing Hyde/DJones/Benford/JPhillips, had Poyer/Oliver/TWhite out there wrapped in duct tape and has also since added LFloyd and Bernard.

What they're putting out there now is a massive upgrade in skill over what we last saw out there under Frazier.

 

I won't argue against your point that they are now running similar schemes a bit more downhill, but imo that adjustment pales in comparison to the upgrade in healthy players on the field.

And assuming they remain healthy, the D will be even better if Miller gets back to form. 
I think Bernard pairing with Milano will have a similar effect as the chemistry that made our safety tandem one of the best.  
 

[Milanos Milano]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

Scheme or play calling, the results thus far speak for themselves, ( yes i realize we won’t se very many nine sack games) Frazier was a contain first and second, attack third DC,  he coached in a scared to take a risk way and it really showed at crucial moments, imo its no surprise he was let go.

Don’t let them fool you. While the overall defense approach hasn’t changed much, the underlying demeanor has. We are attacking smartly, our blitz percentage is low and still wreaking havoc, and that is due to being better disguised under McD. While it is true we are generally healthier this time around thus far, the defensive ambiance is definitely different. 

It’s like when people say oh that was just a thunderstorm or that was just a hurricane. Every thunderstorm is different and every hurricane is different, to those that are willing to dissect. 

[Aussie Joe]

15 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There is very little difference schematically. I told you all that all offseason. This idea that Frazier was running his own defense completely divorced from what McDermott believes in was foolish in the extreme. 

 

What I would say is I think Sean is a more aggressive playcaller. They have been running some more man on the outside (still primarily zone but they have mixed some more in) and they have been a bit more creative up front. I think a fair criticism of Leslie was that their pressure packages were a bit vanilla at times. We have already seen McDermott run 4 man rushes where Milano, Bernard or Taron are the 4th rusher and Greg or Floyd drops out and covers the flat. That kind of thing Leslie went to very sparingly but it was always there in their playbook Sean is just willing to call it more.

 

The biggest schematic difference is linebacker usage. And in 2020 when the D started slow and McDermott spent the bye week working with Frazier to change some things up we saw what we have seen so far this season too - Sean wants his linebackers to trigger downhill much faster. Leslie generally asked for a bit more read and react from his guys. It isn't a huge thing but I would expect the average depth of tackle from our linebackers this season to be less than it has been the last few years. He just wants them closer to the line and attacking the ball more quickly.

But the biggest knock on Leslie was that he was too passive and “vanilla”…

 

I’ll also add that he didn’t make a lot of in game adjustments…

 

It’s early days but there does seem to be more than “little difference”….you could say that based on the aggressive aspect alone…

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Aussie Joe

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

But the biggest knock on Leslie was that he was too passive and “vanilla”…

 

I’ll also add that he didn’t make a lot of in game adjustments…

 

It’s early days but there does seem to be more than “little difference”….you could say that based on the aggressive aspect alone…

 

 

 

Little difference schematically. And the not making a adjustments thing is a myth. Over a two year period we had the best second half defense in the league. That wasn't an accident.

[FireChans]

5 hours ago, Simon said:

 

The last time we saw Frazier's defense it was missing Hyde/DJones/Benford/JPhillips, had Poyer/Oliver/TWhite out there wrapped in duct tape and has also since added LFloyd and Bernard.

What they're putting out there now is a massive upgrade in skill over what we last saw out there under Frazier.

 

I won't argue against your point that they are now running similar schemes a bit more downhill, but imo that adjustment pales in comparison to the upgrade in healthy players on the field.

Correct. I opined, many times, that Frazier having that rag-tag crew even statistically ranked as the #1 defense was probably his best coaching job in his career.

 

Not saying I completely disagreed with the change over the offseason, but that defense was decimated and they still performed.

[Magox]

Frazier seemed to defend decent to poor offenses extremely well, it's when we begin to play the better offenses, specially in the post season where the defense would disappear.   I just keep thinking back to last season against the Bengals and they had a critical third and short and our DB's were playing nearly 10 yards off the receivers.

 

There does seem to have more of an edge to this defense, but it is extremely early and we haven't really faced any good offenses yet, so we'll see.

[Simon]

4 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

The near total lack of aggressive play by Fraziers “contain” style defenses especially the D-line, in comparison to what McDermott has them doing is a stark difference, kinda odd that you don’t see it, but whatevers…, 

 

Actually there is an argument to be made that the DL in particular has been less aggressive, with Epenesa doing a better job keeping contain as opposed to blindly attacking, McDermott running more zone dawgs than Frasier and dropping DLinemen into coverage more often, Jordan Phillips playing a less reckless, more controlled game, etc.

But thanks anyways for the smarmy insult; it really helped support the argument you put forth with zero evidence or examples. 

[Don Otreply]

22 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Actually there is an argument to be made that the DL in particular has been less aggressive, with Epenesa doing a better job keeping contain as opposed to blindly attacking, McDermott running more zone dawgs than Frasier and dropping DLinemen into coverage more often, Jordan Phillips playing a less reckless, more controlled game, etc.

But thanks anyways for the smarmy insult; it really helped support the argument you put forth with zero evidence or examples. 

Wasn’t an insult,  sorry if you took it that way, we just see it differently, examples abound in the first three games, a smarter more effectively aggressive D-line, and MLB, equals a greater level of success under McDermott vs Frazier, still a long way to go, but the ‘D’ is trending upward for certain, although I appreciate others knowledge, you and our friend GunnerBill are not seeing the forest from the trees on this occasion so to speak, jmo. 

[Old Coot]

The D has played really well but hasn't faced a really good O. That plus the fact that McD's D is so very different from Frazier's means there is not much take on it for opponents to dissect. The game against Miami will be an acid test for our D.

 

Note that I'm not belittling our D. So far it has done very well. But stiffer challenges lie ahead. Here's hoping our D meets them.

[The Wiz]

5 minutes ago, Old Coot said:

The D has played really well but hasn't faced a really good O. That plus the fact that McD's D is so very different from Frazier's means there is not much take on it for opponents to dissect. The game against Miami will be an acid test for our D.

 

Note that I'm not belittling our D. So far it has done very well. But stiffer challenges lie ahead. Here's hoping our D meets them.

The biggest difference in McDs defense so far has been the use of false pressure.  I feel like he has been better at it even though it was something that Frasier did as well but it never looked disguised in Frasiers defense.

 

Now it looks like they are going to pursue, back away and the pressure comes from somewhere you never even saw it coming from in the first place.

[Beck Water]

 

All I have to say is, Time will Tell

 

Good test coming this week

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Little difference schematically. And the not making a adjustments thing is a myth. Over a two year period we had the best second half defense in the league. That wasn't an accident.

No one is saying Frazier was incompetent, just the opposite was the case, he just lacked that little extra in play calling, that most of us refer to that as a lack of aggression, and it showed most during crucial moments in the post season, the reality is the supposed  “adjustments “ you refer to didn’t work, and over time he lost his job because of it. He wasn’t let go because he was kicking azs every post season. He was good, but not good enough. 
 

I suspect we will continue to disagree about Frazier’s tenure with the Bills, and that’s okay, life would be boring if everyone always agreed. 👍🍺

Edited September 26, 2023 by Don Otreply

[BigDingus]

The thing I like most is that he seems more willing to make adjustments, or at least I'm seeing a more fluid approach to calling the defense. 

 

With Frazier, it felt like there was one way the Bills defense played, and come hell or high water, we were stuck in it. We adjust for no man (or no team)! 

 

And that's no joke. Bills led the league in nickel usage at 92% (2nd highest nickel usage was the 2020 Jets at 83%). But even while in that coverage, there is still room to make adjustments & try to combat what isn't working. Frazier didn't seem interested in donig that, while McD only cares about results.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

7 hours ago, colin said:

the new mcd D is head and shoulders better than the old frazier d through the first 3 games, but clearly these are not great teams we are playing and it's just not enough of them, miami will give us a lot of data.

 

The d is more aggressive in that players are reacting and making decisions more quickly than they did under frasier.  even if the scheme and most of the play calls are similar to what frazier did, mcd is a superior coach because he has his guys better prepared, more confident, and they don't tend to spiral after bad beats (long run vs jets, the miracle td pass to wilson vs jets, the clock work drive vs raiders, etc) but under frazier they turned into a pumpkin in phases and for entire games at times.

 

now, miami might be more than they can handle, but i have a feeling the d will make plays to win the game.  

 

one thing we can say for certain, our d looked like it had a high priced DL and zero pass rush most of the time before, now the mcd coaching it directly, and still no von von, we are seeing maniac and screaming barbarians just pillaging all day.

Exactly this. The Bills have been facing a better & better offense each week which is good. They now have a few games under their belt before facing the hottest team in the league. If McD can hold Miami under 24 points then it will be a great success. I am going with Josh Allen vs MIA D over Tua vs BUF D. 

[GerstAusGosheim]

On 9/26/2023 at 12:41 AM, Einstein said:

 

I doubt the Bills would ever confirm that, but there was an NFL insider that said McDemott did take over defensive play calling in 13 seconds. Allegedly that was the beginning of the fracture between McD and Frazier. 

 

It could be BS, but just reminding you of where the poster may have gotten that info.

I didn't get it from an NFL insider, my sources are way better than that. lol

 

Fact: Sean overruled the squibb kick.  The result of that action prompted Heath Farwell to make a lateral move to the Jags.

 

Fact: Sean also called the defense during the :13 debacle.  

 

Then, Sean sat back and let everyone crucify Heath and Leslie. 

 

 

[FireChans]

11 minutes ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

I didn't get it from an NFL insider, my sources are way better than that. lol

 

Fact: Sean overruled the squibb kick.  The result of that action prompted Heath Farwell to make a lateral move to the Jags.

 

Fact: Sean also called the defense during the :13 debacle.  

 

Then, Sean sat back and let everyone crucify Heath and Leslie. 

 

 

Why would Leslie wait a year then

[TwistofFate]

17 hours ago, The Wiz said:

The biggest difference in McDs defense so far has been the use of false pressure.  I feel like he has been better at it even though it was something that Frasier did as well but it never looked disguised in Frasiers defense.

 

Now it looks like they are going to pursue, back away and the pressure comes from somewhere you never even saw it coming from in the first place.

Pre snap disguise is better and play calling situationally speaking has been better. It seems the calls have our guys in better match ups and better positions to make plays. 

[KDIGGZ]

This is the week I've been waiting for. Frazier's D was always pretty good against high scoring teams. It was incredibly frustrating that they would give up the underneath passes all day long but it limited the big plays. Miami more so than maybe any team in history is all about the big plays. McD's defense might be too aggressive and will give up more big plays. Or maybe it will work, we'll see!

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Our defense and McD as DC simply cannot be judged fully until we see them perform on Sunday, period.

 

This is the week that I have been waiting for... Orchard Park, no 100 degree heat index with no shade, Dolphins at full strength on offense.

 

Seize the day!

 

GO BILLS

[The Jokeman]

21 hours ago, GerstAusGosheim said:

I didn't get it from an NFL insider, my sources are way better than that. lol

 

Fact: Sean overruled the squibb kick.  The result of that action prompted Heath Farwell to make a lateral move to the Jags.

 

Fact: Sean also called the defense during the :13 debacle.  

 

Then, Sean sat back and let everyone crucify Heath and Leslie. 

 

 

Think the Jags are liking Heath now? https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/what-caused-the-jaguars-special-teams-meltdown-vs-texans-brandon-mcmanus-will-anderson

21 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Pre snap disguise is better and play calling situationally speaking has been better. It seems the calls have our guys in better match ups and better positions to make plays. 

Toss in Leonard Floyd a much better player than Boogie Basham. 

[zow2]

6 hours ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

Our defense and McD as DC simply cannot be judged fully until we see them perform on Sunday, period.

 

This is the week that I have been waiting for... Orchard Park, no 100 degree heat index with no shade, Dolphins at full strength on offense.

 

Seize the day!

 

GO BILLS

 

It actually looks like a perfect day for a football game.  Ideal conditions for both clubs.

[Beck Water]

On 9/24/2023 at 3:36 PM, TwistofFate said:

This defense looks wild, full of fire and aggressive.   They look much better under full control of McDermott. 

 

On the other hand, it's not like the Jets or the Raiders have shown much sign of life on offense in other games

 

This just seems like an overreaction 3 games in, to be met by possibly, an equal and opposite overreaction should the defense struggle against the Dolphins

[julian]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

On the other hand, it's not like the Jets or the Raiders have shown much sign of life on offense in other games

 

This just seems like an overreaction 3 games in, to be met by possibly, an equal and opposite overreaction should the defense struggle against the Dolphins

Kinda agree here, don’t believe the Dolphins O is as good as their start has indicated and same for the Bills D.

 

 That being said I believe both units will end up among the league’s best by years end.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I think we now know who called all the chicken ***** defensive calls in the KC playoff game. McD‘s defense looks a lot better.

[TwistofFate]

McDermott puts on a defensive MASTERCLASS. 

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/live/9CK381QK47w?feature=shared

[maddenboy]

After this win over the Dolphins, in convincing fashion (October 1, 2023), its pretty likely Leslie Frazier never works again in this league.

[Bobby Hooks]

3 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

After this win over the Dolphins, in convincing fashion (October 1, 2023), its pretty likely Leslie Frazier never works again in this league.

Jesus. 

[LABILLBACKER]

As much as I criticize Sean, today he coached like a HOFer.  His schemes and calls were absolutely brilliant.  Well done....

[BillsUberAlles]

It's not even close at this point. McD has been nothing short of brilliant.

[SoMAn]

On 9/24/2023 at 4:38 PM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He’s definitely better for Ed Oliver. Wow, what a different player. He’s dominating. If he keeps this up his contract is a bargain.

Oliver, Rousseau, and Epenesa have really come on this year. Bills have done a good job of developing motivated plays with raw talent. 

[BigDingus]

On 9/26/2023 at 6:32 PM, BigDingus said:

The thing I like most is that he seems more willing to make adjustments, or at least I'm seeing a more fluid approach to calling the defense. 

 

With Frazier, it felt like there was one way the Bills defense played, and come hell or high water, we were stuck in it. We adjust for no man (or no team)! 

 

Not to toot my own horn, but this game really highlighted what I was talking about. The early stages saw Miami move the ball with ease, with both teams marching up & down the field without issue. 

 

But by the end of the game, it was a completely different story. Aside from the obligatory huge run play they gave up, the defense made the necessary adjustments & buckled down HARD. Getting after the quarterback on critical downs, great coverage, getting turnovers, making tackles, etc.

 

Hats off to McDermott & the defense! 

[TwistofFate]

Best offense in the league averaging over 40 a game, was slapped up. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

He always was, should have been DC from the get go, but maybe he thought it was too much at first

 

 

On 9/24/2023 at 4:37 PM, The Wiz said:

I've noticed him clapping a lot less.  It's good to see. 😆

 

Aint got time for that 😂😂

 

 

[DuckyBoys]

Tua is ordinary to subpar when forced off script.  He gave the Bills some opportunities they did not grab     Curious if they will wilt or if this sets up a future big game in week 17

[thewookie1]

My guess is although the defensive basis is still likely the same as it has been under Frazier, McD is far more aggressive in his tactics and where Frazier seemed to thrive teaching DBs, McD has got both the LBs and DL to step up at a ridiculous level.

[TwistofFate]

I can't wait to see the film, but the defense got stronger as the game went on.  No Poyer, lost White, lost Ben Ford, still produced. 

 

McD is a hell of a DC.  After the first few drives Miami was essentially shut down. 

 

Players were in position for many big plays...dropped ints, missed fumble recoveries, etc.  

 

McD makes the calls and really puts guys in position to succeed.  This, with the aggressive nature is really the difference in this defense. 

 

That was the top offrnse in thd league.  If our team can play complimentary ball like they did today, I'm not sure anyone in the league can beat us. 

 

The team to beat in the AFC is the Chiefs. 

 

Lets go Buffalo!!! 

[Aussie Joe]

I hope Leslie is on a beach somewhere drinking brightly coloured drinks 

[Fleezoid]

I was worried after their first 2 drives. But I got to thinking, that's what our defense does in a lot of games. We give up some easy drives early, then the D tightens up. It's like a feeling out period. And I'd rather have that than dominating in the first quarter and then fading as the game goes on. 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

I was worried after their first 2 drives. But I got to thinking, that's what our defense does in a lot of games. We give up some easy drives early, then the D tightens up. It's like a feeling out period. And I'd rather have that than dominating in the first quarter and then fading as the game goes on. 

 

The first drive you just have to say, top offensive mind, good script, I think we tried too many run blitzes and got a caught on a couple but it just just a good offense running a well executed script. 

 

In the 2nd drive we actually did get Tua off his first read a couple of times and had chances to make plays on the ball - we just didn't make them. They took advantage. 

 

But once we started making some of those plays - tips at the line, getting Tua off his read, making him hold the ball and then rallying and hitting we dominated them.

[TwistofFate]

17 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

I was worried after their first 2 drives. But I got to thinking, that's what our defense does in a lot of games. We give up some easy drives early, then the D tightens up. It's like a feeling out period. And I'd rather have that than dominating in the first quarter and then fading as the game goes on. 

I think we adapt much better as the game goes on.  The adjustments are amazing and the defense thrives.