Interesting Buffalo News article on Dawkins

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Yes, I'm sure you know more than the coaching staff strength, conditioning, nutrition people....who specifically put him on a plan to lose the weight   FOR FOOTBALL

Neither do you. None of us know more about anything than just about any person employed by an NFL team. This is such a low grade response that if taken seriously prohibits all conversations here about basically anything.

 

I will say I’ve worked with and spoken to a number of physiologists, S&C coaches, and RD’s across a number of different sports as part of the USOC and a couple from other National Governing Bodies. There isn’t a lot of praise for those working in football.  

[wppete]

Could be a fluff piece…. But the most telling is he wasn’t voted a captain again. That’s a huge sign. Also he look straight up awful in the preseason….. Hope he turns it around starting Monday. 

[buffblue]

It's interesting that Dion had to lose 40 pounds to get down to 330. When the Bills took him from Temple he was playing at 315 at guard. It's good that he's committed to his diet, but he could stand to lose another 10-15 lbs imo. He was a well above average LT during his rookie season of 2017 playing at the reduced weight.

[ddaryl]

22 minutes ago, buffblue said:

It's interesting that Dion had to lose 40 pounds to get down to 330. When the Bills took him from Temple he was playing at 315 at guard. It's good that he's committed to his diet, but he could stand to lose another 10-15 lbs imo. He was a well above average LT during his rookie season of 2017 playing at the reduced weight.

The issue with waiting till Voluntary Workouts to realize you need to lose weight, you are obviously not strength training nor are you getting cardio training in at a high enough level. Those calories would be made into muscle, and Cardio is always beneficial. Now that he is desperately trying to shed weight he doesn't have the benefit of the offseason to turn those calories into more lean muscle mass etc...

 

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

hahahaha maybe Dion reads the boards

 

I don't think he needed to read the boards.  The team sets weight goals and strength/fitness benchmarks for the players.   Dion realized he wasn't gonna meet those goals, so he "manned up".

 

Sounds as though Dion did something similar to what Poyer says he did after 2020's Championship game loss, except with food instead of alcohol.

 

I'm glad he lost 40 lbs, and I'm glad he says he's "skinny" now, but I do wonder if he's got the "right" weight at 330.  I don't think that's out of line for other 6'5" LT in the league, but it may be distributed differently.

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

LT is a key need for 2024.

[LabattBlue]

Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

LT is a key need for 2024.

…along with LB and WR. 

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

hahahaha maybe Dion reads the boards

 

That certainly will help weight.

 

[Nelius]

I like how he said things got a little out of hand and then proceeded to gain 40 lbs in two months. A little out of hand? If I laid on the couch and did nothing but drink beer and eat pizza I couldn’t put on half of that in only two months. Pretty scary metabolism at minimum, I agree with the concern.

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, ddaryl said:

The issue with waiting till Voluntary Workouts to realize you need to lose weight, you are obviously not strength training nor are you getting cardio training in at a high enough level. Those calories would be made into muscle, and Cardio is always beneficial. Now that he is desperately trying to shed weight he doesn't have the benefit of the offseason to turn those calories into more lean muscle mass etc...

 

 

Tell us you didn't read the article or the offered summation of the article above, without telling us you didn't read the article.

 

First of all, doesn't say Dawkins wasn't working out, strength or cardio training before OTAs.  There's nothing "obvious" that he's not doing strength or cardio training because he's gained 40 lbs.

 

Fat people can and do work out!  It's harder, but as a wealthy athlete Dawkins has all the access he needs to zero-g treadmills, fitness pools, air bikes etc to work out without over-stressing his joints. 

 

Second, it says he reached out at the start of March and has been working with the Bills assistant S&C coach since then.

 

Voluntary workouts start mid-April - April 17 I believe it was.

 

 

 

 

[Mango]

7 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

…along with LB and WR. 

and DE and OC. 
 

(and maybe RT)

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, Nelius said:

I like how he said things got a little out of hand and then proceeded to gain 40 lbs in two months. A little out of hand? If I laid on the couch and did nothing but drink beer and eat pizza I couldn’t put on half of that in only two months. Pretty scary metabolism at minimum, I agree with the concern.

 

From an interview or podcast with Eric Woods, the eating life of an NFL lineman during the season can be a challenge.  To maintain weight, some of them eat 6 or even 7 times a day (Spencer Brown said he keeps a smoothie by his bed and wakes up in the middle of the night to consume it).  They may be eating 4,000-8,000 calories a day to maintain weight or even add a little while trying to maintain their strength/fitness and play during the season.
 

I know from personal experience that if I'm getting a ton of physical exercise then I get an injury and cut that out sharply, I can gain a lot of weight super-quickly unless I really mind the calories right away.

 

 

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Personally, I don’t hold out much hope he’ll ever be dominant. Too interested in being a goof off and never really serious about health and commitment to excellence. He entered the League as a ‘good’ LT, which in its own right puts him above the pack. But -until this dramatic weight loss, he’s never really striven to excel. 
jmo, but depending how the season shakes out, LT should be high on our Draft board next April.

 

🤷‍♂️

let’s be honest - dramatic weight loss gets him back to viable nfl player, from nearly eating himself out of the league. 
 

id say the red flag on it happening is pretty large. It’ll be interesting if it’s a wake up call to be elite in those regards going forward or just back to serviceable 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Weight problem is official now.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

It sounds like he called somebody on the S&C team and this was the outcome. Chipotle twice per day and a couple gallons of water. I really hope this was not signed off on by somebody on the Bills staff. This is wildly irresponsible of a professional. But honestly, the NFL doesn’t necessarily attract the best physiologists and dietitians on the planet so it’s not hugely surprisingly. 

 

Bills USED to have best in the business - Rusty Jones - until he was promoted up because head coach wanted to bring in his buddy and Rusty left to Bears on Ruben Brown's recommendation.   Bills have shown they are willing to pay the best on staff other than PR and Marketing; Beane and Coach McD claim they are always looking to improve if necessary or motivate if that is what is needed.

 

Look at list of people employed by Bills - as long as some big budget movies!

https://www.buffalobills.com/team/front-office-roster/

[SectionC3]

Talk is cheap.  He has a sloppy physique that is unlikely to improve.  I hope he proves me wrong. 

[Nelius]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I know from personal experience that if I'm getting a ton of physical exercise then I get an injury and cut that out sharply, I can gain a lot of weight super-quickly unless I really mind the calories right away.

 

 

That makes sense although your last sentence is key. So it took him at least two months to make an adjustment? Just consuming 8k calories like it’s game time but then hitting a movie or something? Yikes, seems concerning no matter how it’s framed.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

Neither do you. None of us know more about anything than just about any person employed by an NFL team. This is such a low grade response that if taken seriously prohibits all conversations here about basically anything.

 

I will say I’ve worked with and spoken to a number of physiologists, S&C coaches, and RD’s across a number of different sports as part of the USOC and a couple from other National Governing Bodies. There isn’t a lot of praise for those working in football.  

 

You're certainly correct that if we didn't talk about stuff where NFL employees know more, this board would be a "quick read".

 

May be a dumb question but:

 

Do the people you know, actually know the people working in football to have opinions good and bad?  I could see (say) the nutritionists working with Olympic lacrosse players knowing the nutritionists working with Olympic soccer players because they all come together at various points.

 

But I could see NFL football being its its own enclave, since it doesn't overlap with an Olympic sport.

 

The other thing is, some of the nutritional demands of NFL positions are out of whack with normal athlete nutrition.  I'm trying to think of another sport where about 1/4-1/3 of the players on team are encouraged to maintain extra body mass so they can "anchor", and I can't.

 

There's actually some funny stuff in "NFL Confidential" by "Johnny Anonymous" (believed to be former Eagles backup center David Molk) about being a guy who struggled to maintain his team-mandated weight and what he went through to "make weight" (he would get up in the morning and eat a lot, drink a lot of water, and "hold in" any output until after he was weighed - then he'd run to the toilet for a 'big dump')

 

7 minutes ago, Nelius said:

That makes sense although your last sentence is key. So it took him at least two months to make an adjustment? Just consuming 8k calories like it’s game time but then hitting a movie or something? Yikes, seems concerning no matter how it’s framed.

 

I didn't think that was how it was framed.  The article quotes Dion as saying he was "binging for comfort", and yes, it's concerning.

 

My point was that I can see how weight could pack on quickly, if a guy is accustomed to eating, say, 6,000 calories a day and maintaining weight because of all the physical activity, then the physical activity drops sharply - but you still perceive 6,000 calories a day as a "normal" amount of food.

 

I don't say it's not concerning and obviously Dion knows it was a problem.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Beck Water

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

8 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Bills USED to have best in the business - Rusty Jones - until he was promoted up because head coach wanted to bring in his buddy and Rusty left to Bears on Ruben Brown's recommendation.   Bills have shown they are willing to pay the best on staff other than PR and Marketing; Beane and Coach McD claim they are always looking to improve if necessary or motivate if that is what is needed.

 

Look at list of people employed by Bills - as long as some big budget movies!

https://www.buffalobills.com/team/front-office-roster/

Bills staff under analytics:

'Nithin Reddy'. 🤔

*

Coach McDermott: "I need results from the last game, third down efficiencies.  Who do I see?"

GM Beane: "Nithin Reddy."

McD: "I didn't ask if the results are ready, I expect them now."

B: "Nithin Reddy."

McD: "I'm not asking you if it's ready, it's already Thursday!"

 

[C.Biscuit97]

I like Dawkins but he still looks really out of shape. And I know these guys are humans but gaining 40 lbs as a pro athlete would make me lost my mind as coach/ executive.

 

dude is a leader and great guy in the community. Think I have always heard is he is really in love with the life as a pro athlete but people question how much he truly dedicates himself to being the best player he can be.

[Sierra Foothills]

Just for a bit more perspective, the average American male in his 20s weighs 200 pounds.

 

Let's say for the sake of discussion that Dion's "natural football weight" is 330 pounds.

 

Him dropping from 370 to 330 pounds is roughly equivalent to one of us bloating up to 225 pounds and dropping to 200 pounds.

 

Inexact science I know but we're not talking about an average-sized guy here.

 

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

Just for a bit more perspective, the average American male in his 20s weighs 200 pounds.

 

Let's say for the sake of discussion that Dion's "natural football weight" is 330 pounds.

 

Him dropping from 370 to 330 pounds is roughly equivalent to one of us bloating up to 225 pounds and dropping to 200 pounds.

 

Inexact science I know but we're not talking about an average-sized guy here.

 

 

 

Fair but the average person isn’t getting paid millions of dollars to play a sport. 
 

I really like Dion. But in this day and age, there is zero reason for a guy to get that out of shape. It is just straight laziness. Also, didn’t he have really bad Covid or some health issue? Just seems he should be a lot more forced on his eating habits. 

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Tell us you didn't read the article or the offered summation of the article above, without telling us you didn't read the article.

 

First of all, doesn't say Dawkins wasn't working out, strength or cardio training before OTAs.  There's nothing "obvious" that he's not doing strength or cardio training because he's gained 40 lbs.

 

Fat people can and do work out!  It's harder, but as a wealthy athlete Dawkins has all the access he needs to zero-g treadmills, fitness pools, air bikes etc to work out without over-stressing his joints. 

 

Second, it says he reached out at the start of March and has been working with the Bills assistant S&C coach since then.

 

Voluntary workouts start mid-April - April 17 I believe it was.

 

 

 

 

  I didn't read the article you are correct as I don't have a subscription

Regardless, he reached out in March... Well that backs up my point.. He's a verteran no excuses. Get you ass in gear, get your head in the game and earn your million$$$

[colin]

cornerback, left tackle, and nose tackle are three positions most impacted by the bill parcels planet theory: there are only so many people on the planet born with what it takes to play that position.

 

no amount of training makes a guy 6'5+, giant framed, and just sturdy enough to play such a physical position like LT as well as be able to move.  you might be able to get in better shape, learn and improve skills, and so on, but most guys who are athletically talented are not that big nor that sturdy, and there is a mentality to battling hard in the trench all the time too, you have to want to play the position at a high level.  so once you filter for people who can even do that job at all, you are left with who is there, warts and all.  and there is just a huge tendency for giant men who have to play a sport at a heavy weight to be big eaters and either unmotivated to train, or just really really happy to indulge in some rest and binge eating post season (or during season even).

 

im somewhat disgusted by dion seeming like a chubby kid facing snax and being a sloppy fat body, but there just aren't that many humans who can do the job.

 

similar for nose tackle, but they blow up in fatness even more often.  for CB, there just aren't so many guys who can run like that and flip their hips and suddenly play to stop a guy from catching ball when they are at a disadvantage not knowing the route and timing.  and also still have the confidence to do it again and again after getting burned.

 

there are more corners of course, but their mistakes cost much more than a mistake by an LT or an NT.

 

i was hoping spencer brown being an athletic freak of freaks would take the LT job from DD, but SB just seems to not have the skills to play tackle in the nfl (i really  hope it was due to injury and nothing else last season).

 

I remember we had a trash heap of an LT named mike gandy before.  he went to the cardinals and actually started for them in the miracle season they had going 9-7 and losing to pittz in the super bowl (zona shoulda won).  it just goes to show you can make it deep w some weak guys in important positions, which i hope isn't the case for us but might be.

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

Dawkins met with Will Greenberg, the Bills’ assistant strength and conditioning coach and performance development coach.

 

“I started drinking a ton of water,” Dawkins said. “I would drink 100 ounces of water before I would eat anything, before I would put any food into my body. Every day. Then I was doing two Chipotle salads a day, like 600 to 800 calories a day. That’s it. If I needed a pick-me-up, I’d have a protein bar for 200 calories.”

 

This is the plan that Greenberg came up with??  wtf lol

[Nephilim17]

I'm no training expert or nutritionist but I've heard that guys with a lot of muscle mass need way more protein than average people. Does Dion have/need a lot of muscle under the fat? I would think so.

 

So did this diet maintain his muscle mass? I would be curious to know not just what he eats but how he trains. The article doesn't, as far as I could see, reference his training.

 

I hope our players don't just do what is required to be pros but go above and beyond. That's the mindset of champions. We'll know soon enough how good Dion and this team is. 

[DapperCam]

If he was losing weight all off-season by eating a low calorie diet, how was he maintaining his strength and lifting?

 

Not giving me a ton of confidence here. I’ll be looking to see if the left side gets especially leaky late in games when Dion is getting winded.

[gobills404]

While we’re on the subject take a look at this fatty too. This just doesn’t look like the body of a pro athlete to me. He’s getting paid $250 million and still can’t get motivated to get in shape??? We need to start having serious discussions about Josh Allen and his commitment to this team.

Edited September 7, 2023 by gobills404

[BigAl2526]

I hope he's learned his lesson.  I also hope that he can be in good form this season.  It will be better for him if he can maintain some dietary discipline early in the offseason so he can focus on getting stronger and sharpening his technique instead of losing large amounts of weight.  It's hard to maintain strength or even get stronger if you're having to lose weight at the same time.

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

 

 

Mark Gaughan: Dion Dawkins feels fit, trim, and he's ready to make Bills' haters eat their words

 

Dawkins had lost 40 pounds earlier in the offseason. He has been strictly following an eating regimen laid out by the team for the past six months, since the start of March. He’s in great shape and ready for the start of his seventh season.

 

He gained an added 40 pounds from his 330-pound playing weight during late January and February.

 

“I was like 370 by the start of March,” Dawkins said. “I was kinda binging as comfort. Dinner, dinner, dinner, dinner. It caught up quick.”

Dawkins met with Will Greenberg, the Bills’ assistant strength and conditioning coach and performance development coach.

 

“I started drinking a ton of water,” Dawkins said. “I would drink 100 ounces of water before I would eat anything, before I would put any food into my body. Every day. Then I was doing two Chipotle salads a day, like 600 to 800 calories a day. That’s it. If I needed a pick-me-up, I’d have a protein bar for 200 calories.”

 

I find it mind blowing that the team trainer and nutritionist would recommend a player eat 600-800 calories a day for a long period of time.  This is exactly what they tell people NOT to do if they want to lose weight. 

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

You're certainly correct that if we didn't talk about stuff where NFL employees know more, this board would be a "quick read".

 

May be a dumb question but:

 

Do the people you know, actually know the people working in football to have opinions good and bad?  I could see (say) the nutritionists working with Olympic lacrosse players knowing the nutritionists working with Olympic soccer players because they all come together at various points.

 

But I could see NFL football being its its own enclave, since it doesn't overlap with an Olympic sport.

 

The other thing is, some of the nutritional demands of NFL positions are out of whack with normal athlete nutrition.  I'm trying to think of another sport where about 1/4-1/3 of the players on team are encouraged to maintain extra body mass so they can "anchor", and I can't.

 

There's actually some funny stuff in "NFL Confidential" by "Johnny Anonymous" (believed to be former Eagles backup center David Molk) about being a guy who struggled to maintain his team-mandated weight and what he went through to "make weight" (he would get up in the morning and eat a lot, drink a lot of water, and "hold in" any output until after he was weighed - then he'd run to the toilet for a 'big dump')

 

 

I didn't think that was how it was framed.  The article quotes Dion as saying he was "binging for comfort", and yes, it's concerning.

 

My point was that I can see how weight could pack on quickly, if a guy is accustomed to eating, say, 6,000 calories a day and maintaining weight because of all the physical activity, then the physical activity drops sharply - but you still perceive 6,000 calories a day as a "normal" amount of food.

 

I don't say it's not concerning and obviously Dion knows it was a problem.

Yes a number do. I have some experience with my involvement in international sport that’s valid but I should also say I have some bias. When my sport moved to OKC (oil money) the S&C team was contracted out to coaches who were by and large big time football people. They literally took bids. Programs paid to treat us not the other way around. I had a few injuries mismanaged so did some others Those people were removed. Letters were written to the USOC to step in by other USOC specialists etc. I ended up working with some trainers from the Thunder instead as well as some people from US Ski and Snowboard. They all said the same thing. 
 

That said I think Dawkins verbiage is important. He called strong to and conditioning. The performance science team for the Bills has been educated and worked for world class sports science universities and Olympic sports. I have 100% faith that that group did not sign off on Dawkins 800 calories of Chipotle a day diet as a reasonable solution. I guarantee it. 
 

My comment was more geared toward the strength and conditioning team and S&C coaches in football. These are the kind of meatheads that recommend 800 calorie per day diets for 6’5 professional athletes.

[Ralonzo]

6 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Now I can’t get puff pastries out of my mind, thanks for that! 😬

 

The Paula's mention reminded me I'm hundreds of miles away from a glazed sour cream, and filled me with murderous rage.

[Mango]

8 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I find it mind blowing that the team trainer and nutritionist would recommend a player eat 600-800 calories a day for a long period of time.  This is exactly what they tell people NOT to do if they want to lose weight. 

Tagging this just to see my post above. Check the Performance Science team out for the Bills. 
 

Collins, Beanland, and Dziedzic didn’t recommend it. Guaranteed. The EIS (lottery funded) and AIS are two of the premier sports science institutions in the world. They’re in the range of being the Cleveland Clinics of sports science.
 

This was a S&C coach operating out of bounds. 

[billsfan89]

Dawkins is going to be very critical to the success of the offense this season. Glad to hear he has committed to losing weight and keeping himself in better shape. The Bills are going to need Dawkins to be a solid LT in order for the offensive line to hold up. 

[BillsVet]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

From an interview or podcast with Eric Woods, the eating life of an NFL lineman during the season can be a challenge.  To maintain weight, some of them eat 6 or even 7 times a day (Spencer Brown said he keeps a smoothie by his bed and wakes up in the middle of the night to consume it).  They may be eating 4,000-8,000 calories a day to maintain weight or even add a little while trying to maintain their strength/fitness and play during the season.
 

I know from personal experience that if I'm getting a ton of physical exercise then I get an injury and cut that out sharply, I can gain a lot of weight super-quickly unless I really mind the calories right away.

 

I've never seen anyone conflate an issue more than you do.  Inserting a little doubt here on this topic is akin to Netflix's murderer series where they leave out certain facts to create the appearance of being not guilty.  Dawkins put on 5 pounds a week for 2 months...and you're talking about maintaining weight?  Sure, on his frame 5 pounds a week isn't as much as a normal sized man, but come on.  

 

Even if he were injured, would it be too much to cut back a little to allow yourself to heal?  

 

Besides, Dion has shown he doesn't have a problem maintaining weight.  He has a problem with adding too much.  Because of the 40 pounds to reach 370, how much of it do you honestly think was muscle weight or fat?  I'll hang up and listen.  

 

[Mango]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

If he’s gaining that much weight I guarantee he’s not doing much of any cardio…. And he was eating whatever the ***** he wanted when he wanted…. What a fluff piece. 

And his crash diet was fudging Chipotle. 
 

Gaining 5 lbs per week for a few months. Then crash dieting 5 lbs per week for a few months is not the mark of an elite athlete committed to his craft. 
 

Hoping the was a reset for him. He’s learned he botched this whole thing both on the way up and way down and he finds some stability. But I’d be lying if I wasn’t concerned. 

[Buffalo716]

9 hours ago, BillsDad51 said:

Wow. He weighed 370 in off-season before losing 40 pounds by July.

Lineman carry a lot of water weight

 

Some lineman lose five pounds a day in training camp

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Was never a fan of Dawkins and thought we should’ve made Jason Peters the highest paid LT in the NFL back in the day.

[Brand J]

Hmmm… count me among those who don’t completely understand the genesis of this article. We’re to celebrate the fact that Dion lost 40 extra pounds of fat as some sort of commitment to the team? Versus the alternative to this situation which is, you know, showing up and weighing 370 pounds? Commitment isn’t spending time shedding extra bad weight, commitment is getting with a nutritionist and personal trainer early in the offseason and dedicating yourself to working on your build, maximizing your athletic attributes to perform at your best in the 310-320 pound range. That’s commitment. Strange piece.

[ColoradoBills]

Well, if I get Dion's story right, he put on a lot of "comfort weight" in February and March.

What happened at the end of January to make him need that comfort?

Could it be a little depression after a bad ending to a stressful season?

 

These guys are humans with the same feelings as anyone else.  I'm sure in retrospect Dawkins wishes it didn't happen, but it did.

As to his captaincy, maybe he needed to concentrate on himself more this season.  I'll leave that to his teammates in the locker room.

 

He evidently had to work hard to correct his weight, and he did.  I guess I'm just glad he righted the ship. 

I'm not buying any tar and feathers yet.