Bernard, Torrence and Benford all officially starters

[oldmanfan]

26 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

Couple points:

- There’s a big difference between acknowledging that someone is an expert and asserting their infallibility. 

- On the tax example my MIL had hers done by the same professional for decades. She passed away last year and my wife is handling her estate. She found numerous mistakes in the taxes sent to her by the same professional tax accountant. Some took several corrections before they were fully rectified. Thus the danger of appealing to authority.

- Similarly a lot of fans thought that despite his extensive experience Rex Ryan was going to be a disaster here. And they sure weren’t wrong. I hear the same argument of “he’s the pro.”

- Just because a fan may not be able to do the job of a GM doesn’t mean that they can’t point out where they think he went wrong. I’m not a professional chef, but I can tell you that a meal is terrible when I have a really bad one - and sometimes even when I’m watching one be made. 

- Let’s not confuse name calling and belittling someone with fans voicing legitimate concerns and criticisms.

- I don’t see the same push back when Bills fans criticize other teams players, coaches and GMs. Why the double standard?

 

There’s nothing wrong with a fan stating that they think we will have a problem at MLB because our starting MLB performed poorly last year and hasn’t been on the field in the preseason. That’s legitimate. That doesn’t mean that they’re rooting for the player to fail or rooting against the Bills. 

I did not say anyone is infallible.  Nor did I say fans (short for fanatic after all) don’t get to voice opinions.  Just that, on the whole, folks with more extensive training and expertise in an area have a better chance of being right in that area than those who don’t.  So I prefer to wait and see what happens before criticizing.  People are saying Bernard is doomed to fail based on a very limited data set.  I choose to see how he does before judging.

Edited September 7, 2023 by oldmanfan

[BarleyNY]

21 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I did not say anyone is infallible.  Nor did I say fans (short for fanatic after all) don’t get to voice opinions.  Just that, on the whole, folks with more extensive training and expertise in an area have a better chance of being right in that area than those who don’t.  So I prefer to wait and see what happens before criticizing.  People are saying Bernard is doomed to fail based on a very limited data set.  I choose to see how he does before judging.

 

And I think it’s fair for fans to be concerned by how poorly Bernard performed last season. That doesn’t mean he can’t improve. 

[oldmanfan]

52 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

 

And I think it’s fair for fans to be concerned by how poorly Bernard performed last season. That doesn’t mean he can’t improve. 

We shall see

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

18 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

And I think it’s fair for fans to be concerned by how poorly Bernard performed last season. That doesn’t mean he can’t improve. 

 

I think thats the thing - he was playing for milano i think more than edmunds.  I'm not going to say which he's better suited for, but he definitely seems to offer more from a pass rushing perspective than edmunds ever did.  Whether he can shed, and play downhill i think is going to be the big question.  I'm fairly certain he's probably better in coverage than dodson.  

[BarleyNY]

2 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I think thats the thing - he was playing for milano i think more than edmunds.  I'm not going to say which he's better suited for, but he definitely seems to offer more from a pass rushing perspective than edmunds ever did.  Whether he can shed, and play downhill i think is going to be the big question.  I'm fairly certain he's probably better in coverage than dodson.  

 

For all of Edmunds athleticism he was an awful blitzer. It never made sense, but that’s how it was.

[Punching Bag]

19 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I did not say anyone is infallible.  Nor did I say fans (short for fanatic after all) don’t get to voice opinions.  Just that, on the whole, folks with more extensive training and expertise in an area have a better chance of being right in that area than those who don’t.  So I prefer to wait and see what happens before criticizing.  People are saying Bernard is doomed to fail based on a very limited data set.  I choose to see how he does before judging.

 

Some fans are like media members who want be first to post or criticize and ignore it when they are wrong.

One media member told me that they need to be like a CB and not be affected by botched plays.

[junior]

On 9/6/2023 at 12:21 PM, KDIGGZ said:

Bernard is terrible. He's undersized and for being so you would expect him to be super athletic which he's not. If he would have played in the preseason we would have all seen that. I definitely don't like the idea of them experimenting with him in a live game. This is going to be bad. Hopefully Kirksey will be available but I doubt it 

 

Seems pretty athletic to me, idk 

[TheBeaneBandit]

19 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

 

For all of Edmunds athleticism he was an awful blitzer. It never made sense, but that’s how it was.

Yes. I never seen him cause any pressure unless he shot a gap clean and untouched. Small 205 running backs would basically stonewall him. It's why I would laugh when people suggested the Bills play him at edge.

[jahnyc]

I expect that the Bills defense will be tested by the Jets with a combination of concentrated rushes up the middle and short passes in the middle of the field, both specifically targeting Bernard and his inexperience.  I don't think it helps having Oliver as an undersized DT helps with defending the run if we are going to start Bernard at MLB.

[Coach Tuesday]

39 minutes ago, jahnyc said:

I expect that the Bills defense will be tested by the Jets with a combination of concentrated rushes up the middle and short passes in the middle of the field, both specifically targeting Bernard and his inexperience.  I don't think it helps having Oliver as an undersized DT helps with defending the run if we are going to start Bernard at MLB.

Not just up the middle but side to side using their zone stretch concepts to set up play action short throws to the flat.  They will do that over and over again to get Bernard’s head spinning and then they’ll ignore the flat option and take a deep shot or two.  

[EmotionallyUnstable]

When asked if he’s readyfor Monday Night (quote Per Nick Wojton on BillsWire.)

 

“I think so,” Bernard said. “Super excited to see what happens.”

 

Comments like that must have offenses shaking in fear. 

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

On 9/7/2023 at 5:04 PM, oldmanfan said:

I did not say anyone is infallible.  Nor did I say fans (short for fanatic after all) don’t get to voice opinions.  Just that, on the whole, folks with more extensive training and expertise in an area have a better chance of being right in that area than those who don’t.  So I prefer to wait and see what happens before criticizing.  People are saying Bernard is doomed to fail based on a very limited data set.  I choose to see how he does before judging.

People are saying he is doomed to fail because he is too small to play the position.  His poor showing last year only reinforces that belief. Im sure all of us who think he will be awful would love to be wrong.  Some of us are stuck in the past on what a MLB should look like. Maybe a 225lb linebacker playing the middle is the future. I don't see it yet. Again hope he plays lights out.

 

And as for GM criticism, a GM picked JaMarcus Russell and Johnny Manziel and 32 of them passed on Brady 5 or more times. These people are far from geniuses and we fans watch alot of football too. My hunch is we could suck just as bad as they do figuring out who can play QB and who can not.

[SWATeam]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea… kindve hate the fact that this is basically a try out for Bernard in week one against a division rival who will challenge for the division…. They are forcing him into action because they feel the need to justify the pick and the lack of other options. 

Are you suggesting more investment in the defense???

[Special K]

36 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

 

“I think so,” Bernard said. “Super excited to see what happens.”

 

 

 

Did the Bills do a lackluster job at addressing the MLB position over the last two years??

 

”I think so.”😡

 

At this point, Bernard is the only option they have, and I hope they get the most out of him to the point where he is at least not a liability to the defense.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Special K

[Doc]

37 minutes ago, Special K said:

Did the Bills do a lackluster job at addressing the MLB position over the last two years??

 

”I think so.”😡

 

At this point, Bernard is the only option they have, and I hope they get the most out of him to the point where he is at least not a liability to the defense.

 

He's not the only option.  The Ravens traded for Roquan Smith in-season and started him 7 days later.  Kirksey has been on the team for 10 days.

[Special K]

18 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

He's not the only option.  The Ravens traded for Roquan Smith in-season and started him 7 days later.  Kirksey has been on the team for 10 days.

 

True on Kirksey, but I think the Bills might view him as an “in case of emergency, break glass” type of option.

[Doc]

Just now, Special K said:

True on Kirksey, but I think the Bills might view him as an “in case of emergency, break glass” type of option.

 

No way.  He'll be the starter at MLB.  They're just working him in slowly, which is maddening.  He's got the size and experience Bernard lacks.

[Special K]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

No way.  He'll be the starter at MLB.  They're just working him in slowly, which is maddening.  He's got the size and experience Bernard lacks.

 

Kirksey starting sounds good to me, we will see what the Bills think soon enough, I’m sure.

[Doc]

25 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

No, Im suggesting they ***** up with a wasted pick in Bernard based on what we’ve seen…. But he was a McD pick and a 3rd rounder at hat so they are forcing the issue. 

 

By not starting Kirksey?

Edited September 9, 2023 by Doc

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

No, Im suggesting they ***** up with a wasted pick in Bernard based on what we’ve seen…. But he was a McD pick and a 3rd rounder at hat so they are forcing the issue. 

 

He's entering just Year 2 of a complicated Defense in which he got a total of 43 snaps on Defense as a Rookie. Wayyyyy too early to assume he's a "wasted pick".

[UConn James]

Can I just ask… what the heck is with Torrence stabbing / tomahawk chopping the air a second before the snap? That is incredibly annoying to see on-screen and had me worried about false starts through the game… but… it’s allowed? Didn’t notice that in the preseason games. It kinda gives away the snap count.

[peterpan]

3 minutes ago, UConn James said:

Can I just ask… what the heck is with Torrence stabbing / tomahawk chopping the air a second before the snap? That is incredibly annoying to see on-screen and had me worried about false starts through the game… but… it’s allowed? Didn’t notice that in the preseason games. It kinda gives away the snap count.

He is signaling to the center to snap the ball.  

[EmotionallyUnstable]

6 minutes ago, UConn James said:

Can I just ask… what the heck is with Torrence stabbing / tomahawk chopping the air a second before the snap? That is incredibly annoying to see on-screen and had me worried about false starts through the game… but… it’s allowed? Didn’t notice that in the preseason games. It kinda gives away the snap count.

This is pretty common around the league and in football. The center has a tougher job presnap, often helping the QB direct traffic and setting protections. Giving the snap count responsibility to the guard allows for them to focus more on the actual snap being on target, as well. 

[MarlinTheMagician]

Bernard is the freaking man!  He is like a young Milano!  Two-headed monster!

[Aurelius]

We can talk about Bernard etc, but by far the most impactful of all is Torrence.  This guy is a rookie and plays like an All-Pro.  He has totally anchored the right side of the line both run and pass-wise and is well beyond his years with football understanding.  He’s never physically overwhelmed thus far and has been a rock, always communicating etc.  he makes the entire right side better.  Kudos to him. Totally steal of a pick.

[nedboy7]

On 9/9/2023 at 1:37 PM, ScottLaw said:

No, Im suggesting they ***** up with a wasted pick in Bernard based on what we’ve seen…. But he was a McD pick and a 3rd rounder at hat so they are forcing the issue. 

Yikes. 

[BillsFanForever19]

On 9/9/2023 at 3:37 PM, ScottLaw said:

No, Im suggesting they ***** up with a wasted pick in Bernard based on what we’ve seen…. But he was a McD pick and a 3rd rounder at hat so they are forcing the issue. 

 

Hey thanks @Sierra Foothills - I was looking for this post 😆

 

You were saying @ScottLaw?

[Aussie Joe]

19 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Hey thanks @Sierra Foothills - I was looking for this post 😆

 

You were saying @ScottLaw?

Scott law is very “offensive weapons “ focused when it comes to the draft

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Scott law is very “offensive weapons “ focused when it comes to the draft

And OL focused.  He realizes the importance of blocking.  

 

From my experience reading Scott’s posts, I would best describe his feelings as:  the bills have invested too much into the defense and the defense always fails us in the playoffs (he’s not wrong).  We have Josh Allen, so stop investing so much into the D and give Josh what he needs to become the best he can be.   

[Aussie Joe]

Just now, NewEra said:

And OL focused.  He realizes the importance of blocking.  

 

From my experience reading Scott’s posts, I would best describe his feelings as:  the bills have invested too much into the defense and the defense always fails us in the playoffs (he’s not wrong).  We have Josh Allen, so stop investing so much into the D and give Josh what he needs to become the best he can be.   

I don’t necessarily agree that he is as focussed about the OL part..I can’t recall him pushing any OL pick ..

 

Personally I think they have way under invested in OL in the draft…so if I am selling him short here then I will give him an apology…

 

I can’t argue about the D line though … they have over invested …

 

 

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

I don’t necessarily agree that he is as focussed about the OL part..I can’t recall him pushing any OL pick ..

 

Personally I think they have way under invested in OL in the draft…so if I am selling him short here then I will give him an apology…

 

I can’t argue about the D line though … they have over invested …

 

 

I meant playmaker AND OL focused.  Invest in offense over defense.  Whatever can help Josh become even better

[John from Riverside]

On 9/9/2023 at 12:37 PM, ScottLaw said:

No, Im suggesting they ***** up with a wasted pick in Bernard based on what we’ve seen…. But he was a McD pick and a 3rd rounder at hat so they are forcing the issue. 

Just thought I’d Bump this

You’re welcome

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

And OL focused.  He realizes the importance of blocking.  

 

From my experience reading Scott’s posts, I would best describe his feelings as:  the bills have invested too much into the defense and the defense always fails us in the playoffs (he’s not wrong).  We have Josh Allen, so stop investing so much into the D and give Josh what he needs to become the best he can be.   

So then everyone must be happy with the way we drafted this year

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, Aurelius said:

We can talk about Bernard etc, but by far the most impactful of all is Torrence.  This guy is a rookie and plays like an All-Pro.  He has totally anchored the right side of the line both run and pass-wise and is well beyond his years with football understanding.  He’s never physically overwhelmed thus far and has been a rock, always communicating etc.  he makes the entire right side better.  Kudos to him. Totally steal of a pick.

 

Remember when people actually thought it might be sensible to play career backup Ryan Bates over him because he "wasn't terrible last season?" Fun times. 

[Alphadawg7]

On 9/9/2023 at 12:37 PM, ScottLaw said:

No, Im suggesting they ***** up with a wasted pick in Bernard based on what we’ve seen…. But he was a McD pick and a 3rd rounder at hat so they are forcing the issue. 

This aged well 😂

[NewEra]

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Just thought I’d Bump this

You’re welcome

So then everyone must be happy with the way we drafted this year

Idk, I was.

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Remember when people actually thought it might be sensible to play career backup Ryan Bates over him because he "wasn't terrible last season?" Fun times. 

Time has a tendency to march on and change perspective. It really wasn't that long ago that a few very wise and sensible posters here would have passed on Torrence all together because they were skeptical about his fit here.

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

6 hours ago, NewEra said:

And OL focused.  He realizes the importance of blocking.  

 

From my experience reading Scott’s posts, I would best describe his feelings as:  the bills have invested too much into the defense and the defense always fails us in the playoffs (he’s not wrong).  We have Josh Allen, so stop investing so much into the D and give Josh what he needs to become the best he can be.   

 

That frame of mind is cool and all, but he makes snap judgements on players like Bernard with zero data to back up what he's saying. Dude had played one game lol

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Remember when people actually thought it might be sensible to play career backup Ryan Bates over him because he "wasn't terrible last season?" Fun times. 

I’m definitely the biggest Ryan Bates supporter here. My defense of Bates was mostly based on the criticism he was receiving. He can start on most OLs. If cut tomorrow he’d be signed and starting somewhere else immediately.

 

That said, Torrence is obviously a superior talent and player. A future all pro OG. He’ll likely be doing it next to Ryan Bates in a year or 2.

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’m definitely the biggest Ryan Bates supporter here. My defense of Bates was mostly based on the criticism he was receiving. He can start on most OLs. If cut tomorrow he’d be signed and starting somewhere else immediately.

 

That said, Torrence is obviously a superior talent and player. A future all pro OG. He’ll likely be doing it next to Ryan Bates in a year or 2.

 

Yeah, I see Bates as the starting center next year.

[colin]

6 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

I don’t necessarily agree that he is as focussed about the OL part..I can’t recall him pushing any OL pick ..

 

Personally I think they have way under invested in OL in the draft…so if I am selling him short here then I will give him an apology…

 

I can’t argue about the D line though … they have over invested …

 

 

 

they have.

 

if we look at the line now, new contract dawkins (since mcbean took over), FA signing Mcgovern, FA signing Morse, Pick O'hamstrings, pick brown.

 

im still shell shocked from brown's glass back year last season, but what we are seeing out there right now is mcbean getting the horses and spending the resources perhaps later than i'd like, but still spending them.