Bernard, Torrence and Benford all officially starters

[JerseyBills]

Benford could be a beast. Loved his game before the injury

[appoo]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

And that’s one of the reasons that’s that Milano isn’t a middle linebacker….

Roquon weighs 236.  Bernard is 222.  How is that slightly lighter?  And Bernard doesn’t look any bigger than he did last year.  Put on 14 LBs of muscle and tell me you’re slightly heavier afterwards.  And “slightly” stronger.  Roquon is much stronger, takes on blocks much better and has advanced instincts.  Did I meantion he has 14 more

pounds of muscle than Bernard.

 

that’s why people disliked your post.  I wasn’t even one of them, but it’s obvious to me why they disliked it

Roquon is a 3-4 backer which means he's gotta be bigger. Though point made. Bernard is absolutely undersized for the postion, but the hope he's big enough to be a 4-3 Mike.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

11 minutes ago, appoo said:

I'm not at all trying to be argumentative or even say I'm confident in Bernard - but McDermott literally never took Milano or Edmunds off the field unless they were injured.  Those two played a 100% of the available snaps after week 9.  After Week 9 the only other linebacker to play was AJ Klein, and he only barely played. 

 

But there is absolutely space for McDermott not liking what he saw out of Bernard in that WK9 Jets game and shelving him. 

They sign Klein for a reason last year. Trust wasn’t there in the young LBs. 
 

I let actions speak and starting Bernard definitely shows confidence. They could’ve kept Klein around a few weeks to fill the hole until Kirksey was ready. Bernard has a huge opportunity.

 

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[appoo]

1 minute ago, Special K said:

 

Agree on Benford......Elam not so much.

Nothing I've seen on field from Elam suggests to me he's been a bust. In fact he finished the season as our best corner last season - with Benford injured. 

 

Despite being a first-round pick in 2022, Elam failed to become a starting cornerback by the start of the season and had an inconsistent rookie year. However, as a former first-round pick, he should have plenty of opportunities to win that position battle. He also finished the season strong, flipping his 56.7 PFF grade in the regular season to 87.1 in two playoff games, a mark that would have ranked second among cornerbacks in the regular season.

 

Rather than seeing this as Elam busting (he's officially listed as Tre's backup FWIW, which is the same line in the depth chart as Jackson), I lean towards thinking McDermott loving Benford. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 minutes ago, appoo said:

Roquon is a 3-4 backer which means he's gotta be bigger. Though point made. Bernard is absolutely undersized for the postion, but the hope he's big enough to be a 4-3 Mike.

Size really doesn’t matter anymore. Different game. It’s all about instincts and making the right read.

 

Shaquille Leonard played MLB at 215 LBs.

[That's No Moon]

26 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Bills fan base hate a draft pick more than Bernard? Holy smokes.

 

There haven't been that many that have looked as absolutely lost and physically overmatched as he did in the limited time he got. I know he got limited snaps. That happened because those snaps were so bad they went out and re-signed AJ Klein so he wouldn't have to play any more LB last year. 

 

So yeah, there's a faction of the board that wants us to remember a college game from two years ago as reason to not be terrified. Bernard is BY FAR the biggest unknown question mark the Bills have started in a really long time. If we are talking about an unknown question mark starter for a GOOD Bills team I might need to go all the way back to Jerry Crafts to find one as dicey as this.

[BigAl2526]

I think that for pass defense Bernard is the better choice.  He might, however, get manhandled by offensive linemen blocking for runners at the second level.  I hope our defensive front four is strong enough against the run to compensate for the lack of brawn at the linebacking. 

[Roundybout]

15 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

Bummer the Bills drafted Elam when there were so many other quality players at positions of need.

 

Benford panning out from the 6th round is helpful to the Bills, but it makes it all the more harder to take that the Bills drafted Elam instead of players like Devin Lloyd or Breece Hall with that 1st round pick.

 

As for Torrence, really excited for him....a great pick in the 2nd round by Beane as I see him as a starter on this O-line for the next decade.👍

Eh, we were putting out the corpse of Josh Norman and Levi Wallace. We needed to draft a good CB.

[That's No Moon]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Size really doesn’t matter anymore. Different game. It’s all about instincts and making the right read.

 

Shaquille Leonard played MLB at 215 LBs.

Size doesn't matter, until you're getting blocked by a 330lb guard. But size doesn't matter in that instance either I guess 

[Special K]

2 minutes ago, appoo said:

Nothing I've seen on field from Elam suggests to me he's been a bust. In fact he finished the season as our best corner last season - with Benford injured. 

 

Despite being a first-round pick in 2022, Elam failed to become a starting cornerback by the start of the season and had an inconsistent rookie year. However, as a former first-round pick, he should have plenty of opportunities to win that position battle. He also finished the season strong, flipping his 56.7 PFF grade in the regular season to 87.1 in two playoff games, a mark that would have ranked second among cornerbacks in the regular season.

 

Rather than seeing this as Elam busting (he's officially listed as Tre's backup FWIW, which is the same line in the depth chart as Jackson), I lean towards thinking McDermott loving Benford. 

 

I’m sure Elam will get a chance at some point during the season.....even though I disagree with drafting him, I still hope he pans out, and figures it out....I don’t want any Bills draft pick to be a bust.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

There haven't been that many that have looked as absolutely lost and physically overmatched as he did in the limited time he got. I know he got limited snaps. That happened because those snaps were so bad they went out and re-signed AJ Klein so he wouldn't have to play any more LB last year. 

 

So yeah, there's a faction of the board that wants us to remember a college game from two years ago as reason to not be terrified. Bernard is BY FAR the biggest unknown question mark the Bills have started in a really long time. If we are talking about an unknown question mark starter for a GOOD Bills team I might need to go all the way back to Jerry Crafts to find one as dicey as this.

There’s been 1st round picks that looked lost in their first start early in the season.

1 minute ago, That's No Moon said:

Size doesn't matter, until you're getting blocked by a 330lb guard. But size doesn't matter in that instance either I guess 

If you’re getting blocked you already lost.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 minutes ago, noacls said:

Uhh... What are you talking about? 🍎 to 🍊 

I’m suggesting Bernard is more of an 🍎 than an 🍊 too

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Our defense for whatever reason is prone to giving up a huge run. I think it’s because of our safeties taking poor angles but it’s a problem.

Yeah that’s was the case in a big way last season.  

[appoo]

last point about Benford, he came out as a rookie in 22 and WON the Corner job, and didn't lose it - he was injured. It shouldn't be a surprise he's won this job again. 

[RyanC883]

52 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Bummer about Elam 

 

at this point, if we can get a 2nd for him I'd do it.  The pick never made sense.  Perhaps he can pick up zone. But taking an elite man-press guy into what is a complex zone D was odd.  Luckly, we got Benford and Jackson around.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, That's No Moon said:

Size doesn't matter, until you're getting blocked by a 330lb guard. But size doesn't matter in that instance either I guess 

If a 330lb guard is doing the blocking on a LBer, it really doesn't make much difference if the dude is 220lbs or 240lbs. It also meant your DTs didn't do their job and keep the LBer clean.

 

Bernard has played a whopping 110 professional snaps on defense. Anyone that is going on about how bad (or good) he will be on Monday is completely guessing. 

[Airseven]

While expected, still great to hear about Benford and Torrence. Excited for both. Bernard won the job literally by not playing. What a wasteland at LB.

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

In all due respect to Bernard, I hope he's not on the field a lot and we run with three safeties.  

 

Isn't that essentially what they're doing with Bernard on the field.  

 

 

[RyanC883]

9 minutes ago, appoo said:

Nothing I've seen on field from Elam suggests to me he's been a bust. In fact he finished the season as our best corner last season - with Benford injured. 

 

Despite being a first-round pick in 2022, Elam failed to become a starting cornerback by the start of the season and had an inconsistent rookie year. However, as a former first-round pick, he should have plenty of opportunities to win that position battle. He also finished the season strong, flipping his 56.7 PFF grade in the regular season to 87.1 in two playoff games, a mark that would have ranked second among cornerbacks in the regular season.

 

Rather than seeing this as Elam busting (he's officially listed as Tre's backup FWIW, which is the same line in the depth chart as Jackson), I lean towards thinking McDermott loving Benford. 

 

this is also possible, you can only start one guy.  

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

Excited about Bernard but how ready is this guy going to be? The guy played almost none last year…is he going to be ready to call a defense week 1?

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

at this point, if we can get a 2nd for him I'd do it.  The pick never made sense.  Perhaps he can pick up zone. But taking an elite man-press guy into what is a complex zone D was odd.  Luckly, we got Benford and Jackson around.  

Yeah there's no other way to spin it imo

 

huge missed value

[Airseven]

35 minutes ago, nbbillsfan said:

I feel pessimistic about our ability to stop the run.

 

Agreed. Both in terms of LB issues and the DL getting blown off the LOS more often than not. There's also nothing to suggest they'll have any semblance of a consistent pass rush. A breakout year from Rousseau is critical.

[NewEra]

Best case would’ve been Elam playing slights out and earning the job,

 

that said I’m happy Benford won the job.  I’m eager to see what he can do. I’m worried about him getting beat deep but he’s a demon in the box and as a tackler.  I love his demeanor out there.  4.52 isn’t fast but with good technique and instincts can be fast enough to be a good corner.  I think we have incredible depth at corner.  
 

Eager to see how Torrance and Brown grow together out there, especially in the run game. There’s some good potential there.

[BillsShredder83]

37 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

If Bernard can break up a pass, tackle for a loss, possibly intercept a ball or shoot to the correct gap, he'll be an upgrade at MLB.

people too hung up on the 90s linebacker type. THIS LEAGUE IS NOTHING like that. highly athletic, instinctive, leader, finally a MLB with blitzing abilities, but the biggest thing is coverage.  if he can play well in coverage, this scheme is willing to overlook him occasionally getting lost inside. 

 

his floor is higher than Dodson, his ceiling infinitely higher. Dodson is a dumb player, insane to give him a green dot. at the very least we needed to get bernard out there and see if he has the potential. much better fit for an aggressive defense in that he can blitz, and have less clean blockers to shake making tackles in run game. i cant think of a prospect ive wanted to shut this fan base up more than him. worst case scenario it doesnt work out and Kirksey plays once hes up to speed

[jahnyc]

Agree it will be interesting with Bernard at MLB.  I expect that the Jets will try to exploit having Bernard as the starter, but, then again, Hackett is their OC, so maybe he won't be able to figure out how to do that. 

[jletha]

6 minutes ago, Airseven said:

 

Agreed. Both in terms of LB issues and the DL getting blown off the LOS more often than not. There's also nothing to suggest they'll have any semblance of a consistent pass rush. A breakout year from Rousseau is critical.

One x-factor is scheme. Were so used to Frazier being here but we dont know what the McD defense will look like.

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, jahnyc said:

Agree it will be interesting with Bernard at MLB.  I expect that the Jets will try to exploit having Bernard as the starter, but, then again, Hackett is their OC, so maybe he won't be able to figure out how to do that. 

Even if Hackett can’t figure it out, I’m sure that Rodgers will.

[Paup 1995MVP]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

When he drafted Benford, I predicted great things. He always gave me that Terrence McGee vibe— another unheralded guy that ended up as a great starting CB for us. 

I love the Terrance McGee reference.  One of my favorite all time Bills.  Could have played in any era.  I like Benford's game too.  Play's with confidence and just looks comfortable at his craft.  

 

Lets hope Bernard does the same.  I have no idea what to expect out of him.  Just hope he has bulked up some from last year.  And has more quickness and better instincts then Dodson, who looked like a poor man's version of London Fletcher at best.  

[Airseven]

5 minutes ago, jletha said:

One x-factor is scheme. Were so used to Frazier being here but we dont know what the McD defense will look like.

 

I'll be surprised if the scheme is noticeably different. It's been McDermott's defense all along. But yes, one can hope.

[That's No Moon]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

If you’re getting blocked you already lost.

When you're that little, yeah, you're right.

21 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Bernard has played a whopping 110 professional snaps on defense. Anyone that is going on about how bad (or good) he will be on Monday is completely guessing. 

Which is exactly what makes him terrifying. I assume he has the green dot as well. And zero preseason game reps this year calling the defense.

[BillsShredder83]

27 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

at this point, if we can get a 2nd for him I'd do it.  The pick never made sense.  Perhaps he can pick up zone. But taking an elite man-press guy into what is a complex zone D was odd.  Luckly, we got Benford and Jackson around.  

You have a press- man coverage specialist and a gauntlet of Tyreek, Waddle, Chase, Higgins,  Kelce, Garrett Wilson. Our fastest player on defense.

 

At worst hes great depth and a situational chess piece FOR THIS SEASON.... without accounting for the upside of a talented/smart #1 pick down the road.  Insanely short sighted take if we were a 9-8 team, made even more ridiculous in a SB expectation season.  What does a 2024 2nd rd'er do for our SB push? 

 

The only tape we've seen on the guy is as a rookie, and he played well down the stretch. Absolutely asinine to concede a loss after an above average rookie season. i really dont understand this board sometimes

[BuffaloBill]

This season is more about offense for the Bills as compared to defense. The Bills are built to score a ton. This is how they will win. 
 

The D just needs to be solid. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

16 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

When you're that little, yeah, you're right.

Which is exactly what makes him terrifying. I assume he has the green dot as well. And zero preseason game reps this year calling the defense.

 

There isn't much different about practice and preseason though.  There isn't crowd noise, the results don't really matter.  He must have been great in practice and the film room.  

[That's No Moon]

1 minute ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

There isn't much different about practice and preseason though.  There isn't crowd noise, the results don't really matter.  He must have been great in practice and the film room.  

You and I can agree to disagree about that. The level of chaos in a game, any game, is significantly higher than in a scripted practice.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

You and I can agree to disagree about that. The level of chaos in a game, any game, is significantly higher than in a scripted practice.

 

I guess?  I just mean like... picking off Tyson Bagent doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things.  

 

He played in the big 12 in college, its not like he's never seen big game action before.  

Edited September 6, 2023 by Bleeding Bills Blue

[DCofNC]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Three different levels of excitement for these announcements.

 

1 Torrence. Ecstatic. This was a guy I wanted Beane to draft. He's here and ready to see what he can do against a tough front 7. (Pssst...this is McD starting a rookie)

 

2. Benford. I like it. I like a good longshot story and for as much as Elam didn't take the CB2 job...Benford did. Rooting for the guy.

 

3. Bernard. Fear of the unknown. If you said last year he would be our game 1 MLB I would have been really skeptical. I do wish we could have seen him in some preseason action to get an idea of what we will get. But really, I view this as last man standing from a horrible MLB competition that is keep in Kirksey's eventual spot warm until he's full speed.

Couldn’t have said it better.   
 

I kind of expected them to shift Benford to S in the off-season given his size/speed, I thought he would be a great Poyer or Hyde replacement.  The re-signing of Po and getting Rapp on the cheap obviously made the S spot less of a concern.  The fact he’s earned the starting CB spot is awesome for him, he played well last year, especially as a rookie.  Looks like a genuine steal. 
 

[Max Fischer]

1 hour ago, Process said:

Could care less what Google has their weight at, there is no chance he's bigger than Milano. Bernard looks more like a WR than a LB.

 

 

 

So your "evidence" is a picture on the internet where the players are not standing next to each other, but you're quick to dismiss the measurables reported on team official websites?  Good one. 

[DCofNC]

9 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I guess?  I just mean like... picking off Tyson Bagent doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things.  

 

He played in the big 12 in college, its not like he's never seen big game action before.  

I’m not excited about Bernard “winning” the job, but hopefully he’s got more that what we can logically expect.  At least Kirksey is waiting if the wheels fall off.

[Max Fischer]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

And that’s one of the reasons that’s that Milano isn’t a middle linebacker….

Roquon weighs 236.  Bernard is 222.  How is that slightly lighter?  And Bernard doesn’t look any bigger than he did last year.  Put on 14 LBs of muscle and tell me you’re slightly heavier afterwards.  And “slightly” stronger.  Roquon is much stronger, takes on blocks much better and has advanced instincts.  Did I meantion he has 14 more

pounds of muscle than Bernard.

 

that’s why people disliked your post.  I wasn’t even one of them, but it’s obvious to me why they disliked it

 

Milano doesn't play Middle Linebacker because of size, it's because of temperament and skillset. Nearly every decent Bills expert says that Milano doesn't have the personality for MLB and the team would never force him to play out of his natural WLB. 

 

As for size, a player 6% lighter can easily be a better tackler than those bigger than him.  As for whether Bernard WILL be a good linebacker has yet to be determined, but it won't be due soley to his size (or supposed lack of it). 

 

[Mango]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Seemed like Dane was leading for CB2 most of camp and preseason, so the late push by Benford was a bit of a surprise and considering Dane had a great camp, that is encouraging that Benford did enough to still over take him.  I still think Elam gets mixed in when they are going man/press type coverages or need more speed on the field, but what a story for Benford to be a late pick and over take a quality vet and a first round pick.  

 

 

 

Dane filled in at a really high level when Tre went down. I thought he was a lot better than Wallace. 

Then he started the year allowing something like 48% completion and a wildly low passer rating. Then the wheels just seemed to fall off around halfway through. If Jackson finds his form again I think he can be a legit CB2 in the league. Maybe he has found it, and Benford is just that lights out right now?