Bernard, Torrence and Benford all officially starters

[Dillenger4]

My only worry is that with Benford starting the Jets (and every team) will pick on Tre and burn him as per usual. I hope to see Benford and Elam/Dane at CB sooner than later. Bank on it.

Torrence - yeah Baby!!

Bernard - love it. Fast and can cover! Kirksy can sub in obvious run plays/schemes. This can be perfect for the long run this season.

 

[Success]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Bernard is terrible. He's undersized and for being so you would expect him to be super athletic which he's not. If he would have played in the preseason we would have all seen that. I definitely don't like the idea of them experimenting with him in a live game. This is going to be bad. Hopefully Kirksey will be available but I doubt it 

 

Where is this coming from?  He hasn't played enough to make any sort of assessment about how good or bad he might be.

 

 

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Come on dude. He filled in a bit when Edmunds was hurt. The guy looked lost and couldn't shed a tackle. 

 

Let get honest here. There is absolutely nothing that indicates he is an effective starter. Kirksey will be there shortly. 

 

"A bit?"  You're making that kind of definitive judgment by seeing him "a bit," in his rookie year?

 

This is mystifying to me.  I can't imagine writing a player off based on such a limited sample size.

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

59 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

I love the Terrance McGee reference.  One of my favorite all time Bills.  Could have played in any era.  I like Benford's game too.  Play's with confidence and just looks comfortable at his craft.  

 

Lets hope Bernard does the same.  I have no idea what to expect out of him.  Just hope he has bulked up some from last year.  And has more quickness and better instincts then Dodson, who looked like a poor man's version of London Fletcher at best.  

Agree on all, esp McGee. I would probably put Terrence McGee in my top-3 favorite Bills of all time. I loved that guy. 

[elroy16]

I'm super excited about Benford. He looks smooth, calm, smart, and sticky out there. Cover1 did a great video showing his skills. 

 

I bet almost no one outside of Buffalo knows who he is, but come Monday they'll get a glimpse when the pass D is making Rodgers life miserable.

 

 

 

 

I feel bad (as bad as I can for a guy making tons of money to play football) for Elam more than anything. All he's done is go out there and work his tail off, but really he got drafted into a poor situation for his skillset. I'd bet he'd start for a lot of teams in the league, especially ones that focus on man to man. Instead he's been forced to learn a ton of new coverages and techniques while another draft pick was able to come in and hit the ground running.

 

I'm excited to watch CyBo and really hoping he can bring a bit more consistency to the middle of the line. He's got a hell of a test in week 1, I just hope when he gets beat he can slow guys down a little bit as opposed to getting beat cleanly and having someone in Allen's face in about half a second. I really want to see more play-action which will maybe allow him to get his hands on guys quicker and lock them down. He's so strong, once he gets those paws on pads near the armpits of the lineman, it's basically over.

 

With Bernard's size, hopefully the D-line can really excel. The addition of Ford should help, that way they can have a big run stuffer in there while Jones gets a breather. That and another year in the system for Settle, it sounds like he's playing better this year so far. He was a bit of a disappointment last year.

 

 

What I like about this trio starting is that they all have a ton of upside. We aren't plugging in vets hoping for a high floor type performance. I want to see some youth integrated into the lineup who make plays and take over a job for a long time.

Edited September 6, 2023 by elroy16

[NewEra]

16 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Milano doesn't play Middle Linebacker because of size, it's because of temperament and skillset. Nearly every decent Bills expert says that Milano doesn't have the personality for MLB and the team would never force him to play out of his natural WLB. 

 

As for size, a player 6% lighter can easily be a better tackler than those bigger than him.  As for whether Bernard WILL be a good linebacker has yet to be determined, but it won't be due soley to his size (or supposed lack of it). 

 

I said it’s one of the reasons.  The main reason being he’s better outside causing having.  He played mostly strong side, not weak.  But being 222 and a starting mlb isn’t ideal.  Hence “one of the reasons”.

 

playing LB isn’t strictly tackling.  They have to take on blocks and not get steam rolled.  When Bernard puts some of that on tape in the nfl, I’ll be a believer.
 

I’m not saying he won’t be good “solely” because of his size.  But it has looked to be a problem during his small sample size in the nfl to date from my eye.

 

I think you might be underestimating the affect strength can have on a LBs success or lack thereof in the nfl.  Maybe Bernard is much stronger than he looks.  But I think he’s going to get rolled vs the run.  Surely hope that I’m wrong.  I’m rooting the the kid big time. If he can play and play well, our d will be legit legit

 

[Success]

It IS disappointing about Elam - but the guy can definitely play, and w/ the other players we have at CB, it gives us amazing depth at that position.

 

One of the keys to winning a title is great depth, imo.  We have it in a few position areas.

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Hmmm...

Why not just cut Dodson and bring back Klein? Dodson has never shown he can play the position. 

At least we will see if Bernard can play or not.  Many like me hated the pick then and still do. But at least now he gets a legit chance to play and prove his doubters wrong. 

[Mark Vader]

2 hours ago, eball said:

Anyone else of the opinion that perhaps Benford was just severely overlooked and under-drafted coming from a school like Villanova?  I'm more impressed with Benford than I am disappointed in Elam.  I still think Elam is going to play a bunch this year.

 

Best news is that Dodson is on the bench.  That dude sucks.

 

Finally some interior OL depth also, with Bates and Edwards.

 

I just hope Bernard doesn't shite himself Monday night.  Kirksey needs to get ready fast.

 

Mel Kiper had some very good things to say about Benford when he was drafted. I think he said the biggest problem for him was that he played at Villanova.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

So Dodson just lost the starting job more than anything with Bernard being out what seems like all training camp and pre season

 

Why not just activate kirksey and have him play 

[Mat68]

Curious how Benard looks at the mike.  Imo he looks too narrow but modern day bakers are around 220 so might be ok.  Kirksy is the floor at the position.  I think if Benard struggles Kirksy takes it over the rest of the way and they look for the long term answer in March or April.  

5 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said:

So Dodson just lost the starting job more than anything with Bernard being out what seems like all training camp and pre season

 

Why not just activate kirksey and have him play 

Tough to jump in and run the defense in 2 weeks.  I think if Benard struggles too that is the plan the rest of the season. 

[SectionC3]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Makes you wonder if Bernard was the guy all along or did Dodson lose it?

 

 I think it was Bernard’s job all along. Huge opportunity.

I don’t know what the appropriate idiom is here.  Maybe he’s the one-eyed king in the land of the blind.  Maybe he’s the lesser of the evils.  I don’t know.  But it’s clear to me that he did not, by any objective measure, win the MLB competition.  Dodson, Klein, and Spector lost it. 

[Doc]

29 minutes ago, Dillenger4 said:

My only worry is that with Benford starting the Jets (and every team) will pick on Tre and burn him as per usual. I hope to see Benford and Elam/Dane at CB sooner than later. Bank on it.

Torrence - yeah Baby!!

Bernard - love it. Fast and can cover! Kirksy can sub in obvious run plays/schemes. This can be perfect for the long run this season.

 

 

LOL!  I hope they try...

[SectionC3]

20 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I said it’s one of the reasons.  The main reason being he’s better outside causing having.  He played mostly strong side, not weak.  But being 222 and a starting mlb isn’t ideal.  Hence “one of the reasons”.

 

playing LB isn’t strictly tackling.  They have to take on blocks and not get steam rolled.  When Bernard puts some of that on tape in the nfl, I’ll be a believer.
 

I’m not saying he won’t be good “solely” because of his size.  But it has looked to be a problem during his small sample size in the nfl to date from my eye.

 

I think you might be underestimating the affect strength can have on a LBs success or lack thereof in the nfl.  Maybe Bernard is much stronger than he looks.  But I think he’s going to get rolled vs the run.  Surely hope that I’m wrong.  I’m rooting the the kid big time. If he can play and play well, our d will be legit legit

 

He played slow last year and, like you, I fear that he’s going to get run over.  It shows how little they think of Dodson.  

[folz]

 

In regards to Bernard, I was going to go into a whole thing about the change in defensive philosophy, thinking of our LBs as Left LB and Right LB rather than the traditional OLB/MLB, the need for LBs who aren't a liability in coverage (lateral speed, even if giving up a bit of size) to be able to stop the slants and screens to players like Hill, Waddle, Chase, Higgins, etc., 3 safety personnel groupings, etc., etc., etc.

 

But we are so close to the start of the season now that we can all just wait and see if McD's plan/defensive tweaks work. So, all I will say is, I am very excited to see what our defense looks like this year because I actually think that they are going to be scary good (provided they stay healthy). We'll see. 🤷‍♂️

 

 

P.S. I wasn't as worried as some about the MLB position, but the Kirksey signing took away any last doubts I had. And kudos to Benford for winning the CB2 spot.

[SoonerBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Why was Bernard expected?  Was Dodson so bad that anyone who was healthy would get the start ahead of him?  Did I miss an announcement?   Or was it just your expectation?

 

I thought the position was still an open competition.

 

And, I agree, I think Kirksey will play as soon as he is healthy and has learned the job.

I think everyone is just holding the place until Kirksey gets up to speed. 

[newcam2012]

29 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Where is this coming from?  He hasn't played enough to make any sort of assessment about how good or bad he might be.

 

 

 

"A bit?"  You're making that kind of definitive judgment by seeing him "a bit," in his rookie year?

 

This is mystifying to me.  I can't imagine writing a player off based on such a limited sample size.

 

What in your right mind makes you think he's competent? 

 

He played 45 plays in 7 games last year. He was pretty much a liability out there. 

 

All you have is that he's young and can improve. But that kind of goes by the waste side too because he wasn't very good in college either. 

 

Come on now let's get honest here. The guy is nowhere near starting caliber. We fans have to hold out breath and hope he doesn't blow up the defense. 

[Max Fischer]

35 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I said it’s one of the reasons.  The main reason being he’s better outside causing having.  He played mostly strong side, not weak.  But being 222 and a starting mlb isn’t ideal.  Hence “one of the reasons”.

 

playing LB isn’t strictly tackling.  They have to take on blocks and not get steam rolled.  When Bernard puts some of that on tape in the nfl, I’ll be a believer.
 

I’m not saying he won’t be good “solely” because of his size.  But it has looked to be a problem during his small sample size in the nfl to date from my eye.

 

I think you might be underestimating the affect strength can have on a LBs success or lack thereof in the nfl.  Maybe Bernard is much stronger than he looks.  But I think he’s going to get rolled vs the run.  Surely hope that I’m wrong.  I’m rooting the the kid big time. If he can play and play well, our d will be legit legit

 

 

The key point here is we don't know anything until Bernard's snap count is large enough to make a rational evaluation. Too many here seem to have prejudged Bernard before he's had any significant playing time. However, when so many fans disliked to hated Edmunds, there's little reason to believe there'll ever be any kind of consensus.  

[SectionC3]

12 minutes ago, folz said:

 

In regards to Bernard, I was going to go into a whole thing about the change in defensive philosophy, thinking of our LBs as Left LB and Right LB rather than the traditional OLB/MLB, the need for LBs who aren't a liability in coverage (lateral speed, even if giving up a bit of size) to be able to stop the slants and screens to players like Hill, Waddle, Chase, Higgins, etc., 3 safety personnel groupings, etc., etc., etc.

 

But we are so close to the start of the season now that we can all just wait and see if McD's plan/defensive tweaks work. So, all I will say is, I am very excited to see what our defense looks like this year because I actually think that they are going to be scary good (provided they stay healthy). We'll see. 🤷‍♂️

 

 

P.S. I wasn't as worried as some about the MLB position, but the Kirksey signing took away any last doubts I had. And kudos to Benford for winning the CB2 spot.

The guess here is that McD is going to heat up the opposing QB this year.  No more Frazier Tampa 2 standing around and hoping someone else makes an unforced error.  McD learned that the way to win offensively is to be aggressive.  Time to match the defensive philosophy with the offensive approach—especially because we have the octane offensively to absorb a big play against us here and there. 

[Success]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

What in your right mind makes you think he's competent? 

 

He played 45 plays in 7 games last year. He was pretty much a liability out there. 

 

All you have is that he's young and can improve. But that kind of goes by the waste side too because he wasn't very good in college either. 

 

Come on now let's get honest here. The guy is nowhere near starting caliber. We fans have to hold out breath and hope he doesn't blow up the defense. 

 

I have no idea, either way.

 

YOU are the one making definitive pronouncements, based on a VERY limited sample size, in a player's rookie season.  It's not really based on much.

 

[newcam2012]

43 minutes ago, Success said:

 

Where is this coming from?  He hasn't played enough to make any sort of assessment about how good or bad he might be.

 

 

 

"A bit?"  You're making that kind of definitive judgment by seeing him "a bit," in his rookie year?

 

This is mystifying to me.  I can't imagine writing a player off based on such a limited sample size.

 

He shouldn't be starting. He's shown nothing to indicate he's capable. This is a calculated risk Beane and McD took. I guess we will see how bad it is because there's unlikely any good coming on Monday night. Close your eyes and cross your fingers. 

Just now, Success said:

 

I have no idea, either way.

 

YOU are the one making definitive pronouncements, based on a VERY limited sample size, in a player's rookie season.  It's not really based on much.

 

I stand by what I said. He wasn't that good in Oregon either. The pick was a WTF moment from Beane. He has at least one in every draft. 

[Shaw66]

12 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I think everyone is just holding the place until Kirksey gets up to speed. 

It's always possible that Bernard will play well enough that McDermott doesn't want to make a change.  

[newcam2012]

Hopefully, the Bills and the McD led D can mitigate the MLB weakness. Get creative with different schemes. McD has a great chance to show off his defensive coaching skills. Looking forward to it. 

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

It's always possible that Bernard will play well enough that McDermott doesn't want to make a change.  

I would like to see that.

 

You think this is the likely happen? If so why? 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

23 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

I don’t know what the appropriate idiom is here.  Maybe he’s the one-eyed king in the land of the blind.  Maybe he’s the lesser of the evils.  I don’t know.  But it’s clear to me that he did not, by any objective measure, win the MLB competition.  Dodson, Klein, and Spector lost it. 

It’s hard for fans because they didn’t like the Bernard pick. He didn’t play well in his 1 start as a rookie. The Bills didn’t bring in any competition. 
 

This isn’t a situation where the Bills were forced into this situation. This was chosen. One of the chosen won the job. Now had Kirksey started week 1 I was ready to criticize them. I actually predicted he would start week 1 because I also don’t have confidence in this group. But the Bills chose this group. 
 

Im glad it’s Bernard. To me it looks like it was their plan the whole time.

[BillsSbSoon]

We’ve all been skeptical of Bernard but to be fair we haven’t seen him play this year yet. Im willing to take the shot with him and seeing how it looks instead of Dodson I’ll tell ya that.

Edited September 6, 2023 by BillsSbSoon

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, BillsSbSoon said:

We’ve all been skeptical of Bernard but to be fair we haven’t seen him play this year yet. Im willing to take the shot with him and seeing how it looks instead of Dodson I’ll tell ya that.

It reminds me a lot of Kiko Alonso. We’ll see what happens.

[appoo]

McDermott can not plug and play Kirksey at Mike in his base defense. He's 31 and played 8 years in the NFL as a linebacker. He's probably a 4.9 at this point in the 40.  Just not happening. I mean he wasn't even graded all that high last season. My guess is that he comes only the rare times we run a 4-3 look. But if Bernard can't go, it's gonna be Dodson. 

[syhuang]

 

[Warriorspikes51]

1 minute ago, syhuang said:

 

What is he going to say to the media?  "Man, I want Kirksey out there"

Sean saying Bernard "will take it one play at a time"  could mean they expect Kirksey to take over in the near future

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, appoo said:

McDermott can not plug and play Kirksey at Mike in his base defense. He's 31 and played 8 years in the NFL as a linebacker. He's probably a 4.9 at this point in the 40.  Just not happening. I mean he wasn't even graded all that high last season. My guess is that he comes only the rare times we run a 4-3 look. But if Bernard can't go, it's gonna be Dodson. 

 

Why not?  He's played MLB in the NFL before.

[Chandler#81]

Congrats to these young players!

A drafted Guard who starts week 1? BRILLIANT!

A too small 2nd year OLB starting at MLB? BRILLIANT!

A 6th round 2nd year player starting over a 1st pick both seasons? BRILLIANT!

 

[SoonerBillsFan]

17 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

It's always possible that Bernard will play well enough that McDermott doesn't want to make a change.  

Agreed its possible, but not probable. 

[BillsFan130]

Excited for Benford and Torrence.

 

Bernard? I don’t see this going well, although he can’t be worse than Dobson

[goldenboy81]

Benford and torrence should be starters.

If Bernard can hold it down especially with his speed,this d could be special

[DapperCam]

I think Benford, Jackson and Elam will all probably see time on the field, even with Benford being named the "starter". Depth isn't a bad thing.

[appoo]

7 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

What is he going to say to the media?  "Man, I want Kirksey out there"

Sean saying Bernard "will take it one play at a time"  could mean they expect Kirksey to take over in the near future

Because he'd play that role in a massively different way than Bernard, to the point you'd have to change the entire coverage scheme. 

 

Kirksey is absolutely not playing man on anyone

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, appoo said:

Because he'd play that role in a massively different way than Bernard, to the point you'd have to change the entire coverage scheme. 

 

Kirksey is absolutely not playing man on anyone

That is true. All offseason Beane talked about Edmunds being too big to cover in man. Bills have a plan here and we’ll see how it turns out. I think they want to challenge receivers more this season.

[billieve420]

3 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Bernard is terrible. He's undersized and for being so you would expect him to be super athletic which he's not. If he would have played in the preseason we would have all seen that. I definitely don't like the idea of them experimenting with him in a live game. This is going to be bad. Hopefully Kirksey will be available but I doubt it 

 

Early part of the schedule after the Jets isn't too bad. Team can live with some growing pains if Bernard shows anything while he gets some live reps. If he underperforms they have Kirksey as their insurance policy. If all else fails don't think Beane will have hard time making deal for LB come trade deadline as last resort.

[Max Fischer]

7 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

What in your right mind makes you think he's competent? 

 

He played 45 plays in 7 games last year. He was pretty much a liability out there. 

 

All you have is that he's young and can improve. But that kind of goes by the waste side too because he wasn't very good in college either. 

 

Come on now let's get honest here. The guy is nowhere near starting caliber. We fans have to hold out breath and hope he doesn't blow up the defense. 

 

I can't tell if this is a troll job but just in case . . .

 

45 plays is 15-30 less than an average full game of defensive snaps.  Moreover, he took those snaps over their first seven games, which is not an adequate measure of a player's ability.  

 

As for your college analysis, it seems you forgot to mention he was a team captain, twice second-team Big 12, once first-team Big 12, and MVP of the Sugar Bowl. 

 

 

[newcam2012]

7 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

I can't tell if this is a troll job but just in case . . .

 

45 plays is 15-30 less than an average full game of defensive snaps.  Moreover, he took those snaps over their first seven games, which is not an adequate measure of a player's ability.  

 

As for your college analysis, it seems you forgot to mention he was a team captain, twice second-team Big 12, once first-team Big 12, and MVP of the Sugar Bowl. 

 

 

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10021397-terrel-bernard-nfl-draft-2022-scouting-report-for-baylor-lb.amp.html

 

 

Lets paint a clear picture here.

 

Thus far, the scouting report looks pretty accurate. 

 

Bernard play light, can't shed blocks well, doesn't fit well into a MLB role, and has shown nothing thus far to think he's a quality starter. Correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

He was a projected 5th round pick and a project. Beane reached and the pick was a head scratcher then and now. 

 

In short, I get the optimism and of course he could blossom; maybe into the next Lawrence Taylor. Let's dream big!

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by newcam2012

[NewEra]

37 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

The key point here is we don't know anything until Bernard's snap count is large enough to make a rational evaluation. Too many here seem to have prejudged Bernard before he's had any significant playing time. However, when so many fans disliked to hated Edmunds, there's little reason to believe there'll ever be any kind of consensus.  

No, the key point here is that this is a message board and this is what we do here prior to the actual game.  Discuss bills football.  All we can discuss is what we’ve seen to date. What I’VE seen to date is less than what I consider a viable Mike starter in the nfl.  
 

until that changes, that’s how I see it.  I am actively hoping to be wrong.