The Ringer ranking of Receiver Cores - Opinions???

[Billsfan1972]

While still not week one and really have little to say until the season starts, thought this may spur some discussion.

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/8/17/23834765/rankings-the-nfl-best-past-catcher-receiving-group-2023

 

Interesting how low the Bills and Chiefs are on this list, which really then shows how highly they think of Mahomes & Allen.

 

Conversely Cincy, Dallas, SF, Chargers, Vikings, Eagles near the top. 

 

I have no comments outside I too give most of the credit to Allen for the Bills performance on offense, but let's hear the experts here debate it. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

While still not week one and really have little to say until the season starts, thought this may spur some discussion

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/8/17/23834765/rankings-the-nfl-best-past-catcher-receiving-group-2023

 

Interesting how low the Bills and Chiefs are on this list, which really then shows how highly they think of Mahomes & Allen.

 

I have no comments outside I too give most of the credit to Allen for the Bills performance on offense, but let's hear the experts here debate it. 

Weird that they don't even list Knox as a pass catching option. As a matter of fact, they basically have Kincaid described as an inline TE. I'm going to say these rankings are inconclusive at best.

 

"18. Buffalo Bills

 

WR: Stefon Diggs
WR: Gabe Davis
WR: Trent Sherfield
WR: Khalil Shakir
RB: James Cook
TE: Dalton Kincaid

Buffalo didn’t have a reliable underneath option last year behind Diggs, leading them to rely on Cole Beasley in their embarrassing divisional-round loss to the Bengals. Enter first-round tight end Kincaid out of Utah. Long term, Kincaid is a potentially fantastic addition. But rookie tight ends must learn to block NFL defensive ends and get open against NFL defenders, so they rarely contribute early. If Josh Allen ever checked it down, we might be looking at Cook as one of the best receiving backs in the league."

Edited August 18, 2023 by BuffaloBillyG

[GunnerBill]

I think the Bills are ranked about right. Although Knox is a bigger weapon than Shakir as is Harty. So not sure totally on their method... but somewhere around halfway feels right. 

 

A top 5 #1 

A lower end #2

A borderline top 10 TE and a rookie Big Slot / TE

Sherfield who is a versatile, reliable backup. 

Cook who needs to show more as a pass catcher.

 

Not bad. But nowhere near elite.

[SWATeam]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Not bad. But nowhere near elite.

But, better than the Chiefs as many have said.  Which should get @ScottLaw  waxing poetic about MVS anytime now.

[BillsDad51]

Their comment on Kincaid seems a little off. I don't think he'll be required to block defensive ends much. He'll be on the field as a receiver in 12 personnel groups.

 

 

[Big Turk]

16 minutes ago, BillsDad51 said:

Their comment on Kincaid seems a little off. I don't think he'll be required to block defensive ends much. He'll be on the field as a receiver in 12 personnel groups.

 

 

 

That would be a hell of a block of Kincaid was blocking DEs while split out in the slot...except if he was in tight.

[HOUSE]

I posted 26 times in the DeAndre Hopkins thread but did anyone listen......no

[BuffaloBillyG]

36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I think the Bills are ranked about right. Although Knox is a bigger weapon than Shakir as is Harty. So not sure totally on their method... but somewhere around halfway feels right. 

 

A top 5 #1 

A lower end #2

A borderline top 10 TE and a rookie Big Slot / TE

Sherfield who is a versatile, reliable backup. 

Cook who needs to show more as a pass catcher.

 

Not bad. But nowhere near elite.

I agree that on paper middle of the pack is right about where the Bills should be at the moment.

 

However, I think if utilized properly by the end of the year as a group they may be viewed much higher. The talents that each has is diversified enough to cause some true matchup nightmares. Hopefully the sum of the parts will result in something that is very hard to defend. 

11 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

I posted 26 times in the DeAndre Hopkins thread but did anyone listen......no

Only 26? You know we can't take anything under 35 seriously.

[Billl]

53 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

While still not week one and really have little to say until the season starts, thought this may spur some discussion.

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/8/17/23834765/rankings-the-nfl-best-past-catcher-receiving-group-2023

 

Interesting how low the Bills and Chiefs are on this list, which really then shows how highly they think of Mahomes & Allen.

 

Conversely Cincy, Dallas, SF, Chargers, Vikings, Eagles near the top. 

 

I have no comments outside I too give most of the credit to Allen for the Bills performance on offense, but let's hear the experts here debate it. 

Clearly a well researched article.  They’ve got Richie James and Rashee Rice listed as TEs.

[Warriorspikes51]

55 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Weird that they don't even list Knox as a pass catching option. As a matter of fact, they basically have Kincaid described as an inline TE. I'm going to say these rankings are inconclusive at best.

 

"18. Buffalo Bills

 

WR: Stefon Diggs
WR: Gabe Davis
WR: Trent Sherfield
WR: Khalil Shakir
RB: James Cook
TE: Dalton Kincaid

Buffalo didn’t have a reliable underneath option last year behind Diggs, leading them to rely on Cole Beasley in their embarrassing divisional-round loss to the Bengals. Enter first-round tight end Kincaid out of Utah. Long term, Kincaid is a potentially fantastic addition. But rookie tight ends must learn to block NFL defensive ends and get open against NFL defenders, so they rarely contribute early. If Josh Allen ever checked it down, we might be looking at Cook as one of the best receiving backs in the league."

 

If Kincaid doesn't get the ball often because "he has learn to block defensive ends" then the Bills shouldn't have drafted him. 

They also didn't mention Harty. If he stays healthy, he's a dynamic player 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Warriorspikes51

[oldmanfan]

Explain to me why The Ringer should be considered a credible site for analysis, especially given the oversights and errors cited in the posts above.

[MJS]

I think you could put rankings 10 through 20 in a hat and draw them out in any order you want. I don't think there is much difference there between those teams.

[BillsfaninChicago]

I think they just plum forgot about Knox. Having said that until all the other receivers we have (including Davis) prove otherwise I think we are still only average to slightly above. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by BillsfaninChicago

[dorquemada]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Explain to me why The Ringer should be considered a credible site for analysis, especially given the oversights and errors cited in the posts above.

 

because we're bored

 

i suggest watching one bite pizza reviews from the barstool guy until the season starts

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, dorquemada said:

 

because we're bored

 

i suggest watching one bite pizza reviews from the barstool guy until the season starts

As I thought.  Thanks.

[Simon Says]

Just curious; do people know the difference between 'corps" and 'core"? Usually when I see one of these terms used,  I think they mean the other or just don't know what the words mean.

[goober]

The Pats and “stink, stank, stunk” was all I needed 👍

[DCofNC]

Seems the rest of the world is catching on to what I’ve been saying.  It’s Diggs and a bunch of JAGs.

23 minutes ago, BillsfaninChicago said:

I think they just plum forgot about Knox. Having said that until all the other receivers we have (including Davis) prove otherwise I think we are still only average to slightly above. 

Knox is not a great receiver and hasn’t been used as one much either.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

While still not week one and really have little to say until the season starts, thought this may spur some discussion.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/8/17/23834765/rankings-the-nfl-best-past-catcher-receiving-group-2023

Interesting how low the Bills and Chiefs are on this list, which really then shows how highly they think of Mahomes & Allen.

Conversely Cincy, Dallas, SF, Chargers, Vikings, Eagles near the top. 

I have no comments outside I too give most of the credit to Allen for the Bills performance on offense, but let's hear the experts here debate it. 

 

Well, this amused me greatly

 

Quote

31. New England Patriots

WR: JuJu Smith-Schuster
WR: DeVante Parker
WR: Kendrick Bourne
WR: Mike Gesicki
WR: Tyquan Thornton
RB: Rhamondre Stevenson
TE: Hunter Henry

“Stink, stank, stunk” was how Boston Sports Journal reporter Mike Giardi described the Patriots pass catchers early in training camp. By all accounts, receiver remains a problem that Bill Belichick has been unable to solve. Smith-Schuster has had a few disappointing years. Gesicki is a tight end on paper but in reality a glorified (and ineffective) receiver. Thornton is a speed demon who has yet to contribute in meaningful ways. This group’s only hope is to be rescued by new coordinator Bill O’Brien—if he can remove the stench that Matt Patricia left on this offense.

 

Juju SS is fresh off a 977 yd, 77.2% catch% season with the Superbowl champions.  That's not a fluke, he has 3 similar seasons, though he's probably more a "good #2" than a #1.  Davante Parker was solid last year in NWE.  Gesicki was a solid >50 receptions, 700 yd guy for 3 years in Mia before McDaniel got there. 

 

Maybe if they all meet in NE and stink, stank, stunk *whispers* maybe the problem is not the receivers

[Mr. WEO]

I'm not even going to read it.  I'll just let my rage boil....

[Beck Water]

52 minutes ago, Billl said:

Clearly a well researched article.  They’ve got Richie James and Rashee Rice listed as TEs.

 

Not to mention Gesicki listed as a WR.

[Billsfan1972]

As said until the season starts I really don't get too excited (thus my departure annually after the Bills are eliminated & I no longer posts and obsess on play calling).

 

The point is look at the top of the list and how they make qb's better and then there's Mahomes and Allen having to make due.....

 

Interesting MVP Candidates Burrow, Hurts & Herbert there along with the overpaid and disliked Cousins, of course the overhyped Cowboys and Dak and most protected qb (anyone playing for the 49'ers).

Edited August 18, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[BuffaninSarasota]

CORPS:

a body of people engaged in a particular activity.

"the press corps"   ..... or WIDE RECEIVERS, IN THIS CASE

 

CORE:

"the central or most important part of something"

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, HOUSE said:

I posted 26 times in the DeAndre Hopkins thread but did anyone listen......no

 

[Captain_Quint]

1 hour ago, goober said:

The Pats and “stink, stank, stunk” was all I needed 👍

That was classic. Boston media turning on Belichik more and more these days. 

[BillsfaninChicago]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

Seems the rest of the world is catching on to what I’ve been saying.  It’s Diggs and a bunch of JAGs.

Knox is not a great receiver and hasn’t been used as one much either.

Over the past two seasons he has over 1100 yards receiving and 15 touchdowns. Not All Pro level numbers but pretty good considering the personal tragedy he was dealing with.
 

Not saying it would make a huge difference but he does factor into a receiver analysis especially with some potential coverage relief in Kincaid. 

[Billsfan1972]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I don’t think I ever waxed poetic about MVS. He’s basically Gabe Davis. 
 

18-20 sounds like a fair ranking for the Bills receiver group. 

And that is acceptable?  Asking for a friend......😉

[Logic]

Funny...that ranking seems to be of the opinion that the Bills have better passing game weaponry than the Chiefs.

All I've heard around here lately is how Patrick Mahomes' receiving corps is sooooo much better than Josh Allen's. Huh.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And that is acceptable?  Asking for a friend......😉

 

You measure a team by the entire roster.  What is acceptable or what is not acceptable isn't measure by an opinion piece.  It's measured by wins and losses.

Every successful team doesn't have a top unit in every unit.

[Kirby Jackson]

The Bills to me are probably somewhere between 10-15 at this point to me. Diggs is a top 5 WR. Gabe is a top 40ish guy. Knox and Kincaid are a top 7 or 8 TE room (and potentially better). Harty, Sherfield and Shakir are middle of the pack depth. Cook is a top 15 receiving back (and potentially even better). 

[Philly McButterpants]

2 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

If Kincaid doesn't get the ball often because "he has learn to block defensive ends" then the Bills shouldn't have drafted him. 

They also didn't mention Harty. If he stays healthy, he's a dynamic player 

Apparently Knox is persona non grata as well 🙄

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

The Knox disrespect is unreal. Kincaid is a great prospect, but hasn’t proved anything yet. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 hours ago, dorquemada said:

 

because we're bored

 

i suggest watching one bite pizza reviews from the barstool guy until the season starts

Everybody knows the rules

 

[Brand J]

2 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Knox is not a great receiver and hasn’t been used as one much either.

Come to think of it, I’ve never heard Josh talk about Knox in the way he describes Kincaid: “fun to throw to/good body language/etc,” but the addition of Kincaid does sound like Knox has upped his game (or maybe he’s the forgotten man?). This is the first camp I’ve heard Knox being mentioned almost daily in a positive write up.

[SCBills]

49 minutes ago, Logic said:

Funny...that ranking seems to be of the opinion that the Bills have better passing game weaponry than the Chiefs.

All I've heard around here lately is how Patrick Mahomes' receiving corps is sooooo much better than Josh Allen's. Huh.

Nobody here really says that.  
 

What is said, quite frequently, is that KC has had a better offensive mind leading the team in Andy Reid, has put forth a much better Offensive Line around Mahomes and that those things, plus Kelce, allow them to perform at a high level even without Tyreek Hill. 
 

What is also said, is that they are not devoid of investment at WR.. 

 

They traded for a recent RD1 WR who wasn’t a fit on the team that drafted him after the coaching change.  They brought in a WR3 to give them a vet presence.  Then drafted, in consecutive years, RD2 WR’s.  
 

We have Diggs as our major investment at WR (money and/or draft capital).   Then a RD4 WR in Gabe Davis that has been a success, potentially a major success depending on his season this year.   Then after him, what we had last year was an embarrassment.   This year, we still have the RD5 WR, plus another RD5 WR and some veterans that, while nothing that really moves the needle, should be upgrades in WR depth. 
 

With the additions of McGovern, Torrence and Kincaid.. I have high hopes for this Offense.  The OL should be much better and the WR/TE’s as a group are much better than middle of the pack if factoring in Knox and the potential of Kincaid.  
 

But the criticisms up to this off-season of what Beane and staff has surrounded Josh Allen with, compared to Mahomes & Burrow, are very valid. 

[dorquemada]

27 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Everybody knows the rules

 

 

I love that he spent a few days in the Capital Region and did his thing

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

That’s because your reading comprehension isn’t any good… 

You:

"What dime a dozen talent had Mahomes turned into contributors?

 

He has had a lot more to work with than Allen."

Also you:

"Hill and Kelce coupled with Mahomes was the best in the league… better than anything the Bills have ever given Allen and even with the Hill trade they still had JuJu and MVS with Kelce… not great receivers but not nobody’s/scrubs like the Bills trotted out last season behind Diggs and the inconsistent Davis. … the investment also isn’t nearly the same as the Bills lack there of."
 

Don't pretend like you haven't been beating the "KC consistently gives Mahomes better receivers" drum recently.

But let's suppose you were only talking about the past there, and not the present. Do you still feel like KC has a better receiving corps than Buffalo this season? 
 

[WotAGuy]

2 hours ago, BuffaninSarasota said:

CORPS:

a body of people engaged in a particular activity.

"the press corps"   ..... or WIDE RECEIVERS, IN THIS CASE

 

CORE:

"the central or most important part of something"

 

In the case of the BiIls, it’s wide receiver corpse. 

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, Logic said:

You:

"What dime a dozen talent had Mahomes turned into contributors?

 

He has had a lot more to work with than Allen."

Also you:

"Hill and Kelce coupled with Mahomes was the best in the league… better than anything the Bills have ever given Allen and even with the Hill trade they still had JuJu and MVS with Kelce… not great receivers but not nobody’s/scrubs like the Bills trotted out last season behind Diggs and the inconsistent Davis. … the investment also isn’t nearly the same as the Bills lack there of."
 

Don't pretend like you haven't been beating the "KC consistently gives Mahomes better receivers" drum recently.

But let's suppose you were only talking about the past there, and not the present. Do you still feel like KC has a better receiving corps than Buffalo this season? 
 

are you denying that KC has consistently done a better job surrounding Mahomes w offensive talent?

[TheBrownBear]

Like others said, I don't have a problem with the ranking, but it should list Knox instead of Shakir.  I think we are somewhere in that 12-20 range.  This will obviously improve if Davis takes a step up and Kincaid turns out to be a real weapon.  Maybe just wishful thinking, but I feel like there is some real untapped potential with our group.