The Ringer ranking of Receiver Cores - Opinions???

[Simon Says]

2 hours ago, BuffaninSarasota said:

CORPS:

a body of people engaged in a particular activity.

"the press corps"   ..... or WIDE RECEIVERS, IN THIS CASE

 

CORE:

"the central or most important part of something"

The illiterates thank you.. 

4 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

That would be a hell of a block of Kincaid was blocking DEs while split out in the slot...except if he was in tight.

I'm wondering if we are OVER estimating Kincaid contributions while UNDER estimating Knox.

[Logic]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

are you denying that KC has consistently done a better job surrounding Mahomes w offensive talent?

Wide Receivers? Yes. I am denying that.

Mahomes has had a Hall of Fame tight end and Hall of Fame head coach calling plays throughout his career and -- as of last season -- a better offensive line. I have acknowledged these facts previously. Those are the things that Mahomes has had over Allen. But receiver? I'm not buying it.

Outside of Tyreek Hill, the rest of the KC receivers have always been a cast of replacement level players, just like Buffalo has had.


 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Logic

[Big Turk]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

are you denying that KC has consistently done a better job surrounding Mahomes w offensive talent?

 

KC's WR's have not been consistently better.  TE for sure.  RB's probably a push if not favoring the Bills slightly in terms of actual production.  KC's uses the RBs in the passing game more than the Bills do.  What they do have is a more QB friendly scheme there that gives Mahomes a lot of easy answers all the time.

[Airseven]

Bills ranking seems about right. They're average. Diggs is still a top 10 WR, but Davis and Knox were disappointing last season. Kincaid will have growing pains as a rookie TE. The rest of the WRs are rather unremarkable.

 

3 hours ago, Herb Nightly said:

Just curious; do people know the difference between 'corps" and 'core"? Usually when I see one of these terms used,  I think they mean the other or just don't know what the words mean.

 

Even with a top player like Diggs as the core of the group, the Bills WR corps remains average overall.

[SWATeam]

7 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

KC's WR's have not been consistently better.  TE for sure.  RB's probably a push if not favoring the Bills slightly in terms of actual production.  KC's uses the RBs in the passing game more than the Bills do.  What they do have is a more QB friendly scheme there that gives Mahomes a lot of easy answers all the time.

KC has the best QB in the league.  It's ok to say that.

[Royale with Cheese]

The ranking is about right to me.  But end of season is the true evaluation.

 

[Logic]

Just now, SWATeam said:

KC has the best QB in the league.  It's ok to say that.

I think both things are true.

KC DOES have the best QB in the league.

Mahomes DOES have a lot of easy answers, provided by plays drawn up by a Hall of Fame offensive mind and one of the best to ever do it in the NFL.

While I won't deny for one second that Mahomes is the best QB in the league and may go down as the GOAT, I still think it's valid to wonder what Allen's production would look like if he had Andy Reid calling his plays.

[Einstein's Dog]

14 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Like others said, I don't have a problem with the ranking, but it should list Knox instead of Shakir.  I think we are somewhere in that 12-20 range.  This will obviously improve if Davis takes a step up and Kincaid turns out to be a real weapon.  Maybe just wishful thinking, but I feel like there is some real untapped potential with our group.

I think they ranked the Bills correctly, but I have a problem with it.  I would like this to be an area the Bills prioritized into the top 10 range.

 

It's my hope the FO has all along been considering the $10M WR2 upgrade.  This put them in the OBJ + DHop discussions but ultimately got priced out.  It would also mean that an in-season trade is a realistic possibility.

 

If you put Mike Evans or Tyler Lockett into our group there would be a significant move up the ranks.

[GoBills808]

14 minutes ago, Logic said:

Wide Receivers? Yes. I am denying that.

Mahomes has had a Hall of Fame tight end and Hall of Fame head coach calling plays throughout his career and -- as of last season -- a better offensive line. I have acknowledged these facts previously. Those are the things that Mahomes has had over Allen. But receiver? I'm not buying it.

Outside of Tyreek Hill, the rest of the KC receivers have always been a cast of replacement level players, just like Buffalo has had.


 

so in your opinion Hill=Diggs and JuJu=Davis

 

 

[SWATeam]

Just now, Logic said:

I think both things are true.

KC DOES have the best QB in the league.

Mahomes DOES have a lot of easy answers, provided by plays drawn up by a Hall of Fame offensive mind and one of the best to ever do it in the NFL.

While I won't deny for one second that Mahomes is the best QB in the league and may go down as the GOAT, I still think it's valid to wonder what Allen's production would look like if he had Andy Reid calling his plays.

I have reservations on whether Josh would take those easy answers consistently.  He gets into trouble trying to make everything the home run.  That is the next step I want to see, just take what is there.  I don't care if I never see another hurdle or whatever, just run the offense on-time more often.

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

so in your opinion Hill=Diggs and JuJu=Davis

 

 

In my opinion, Diggs is a legitimate, high quality, top 10 WR1 in the NFL. A playmaker and a matchup dictator and a superstar, just like Tyreek Hill.

In my opinion, beyond having a star WR1, both Mahomes and Allen have mostly had a cast of JAGs at WR.

I do not believe that Mahomes has had better wide receiver corps throughout his career than Josh Allen. I'm not sure how else to state it.

[Success]

I truly don't care.  I love who we have at WR.

 

Did people miss the Patriots dynasty? (sorry to bring it up)  When did they ever go all in on some kind of elite WR corps for Brady?  One time I can think of, over 15+ years - when they got Moss. And they notably didn't win a SB with him.

 

When you have a top QB, you build the line. That's what the Bills are doing. Brady had a great line, and made stars out of middlin' guys (would we have even heard of Edelman if he played for another team?)  Give Allen some time in the pocket, and guys like Sherfield & Harty are going to have great seasons.  

 

And I think we're getting the Davis we expected last year, this year.

 

[SWATeam]

5 minutes ago, Success said:

I truly don't care.  I love who we have at WR.

 

Did people miss the Patriots dynasty? (sorry to bring it up)  When did they ever go all in on some kind of elite WR corps for Brady?  One time I can think of, over 15+ years - when they got Moss. And they notably didn't win a SB with him.

 

When you have a top QB, you build the line. That's what the Bills are doing. Brady had a great line, and made stars out of middlin' guys (would we have even heard of Edelman if he played for another team?)  Give Allen some time in the pocket, and guys like Sherfield & Harty are going to have great seasons.  

 

And I think we're getting the Davis we expected last year, this year.

 

Sometimes Brady didn't even have a great line, but he got rid of it so quick it didn't matter.

 

Bottom line is that when you pay an elite franchise QB such a large % of your cap, he needs to elevate the lesser players around him.

Edited August 18, 2023 by SWATeam

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, Logic said:

In my opinion, Diggs is a legitimate, high quality, top 10 WR1 in the NFL. A playmaker and a matchup dictator and a superstar, just like Tyreek Hill.

In my opinion, beyond having a star WR1, both Mahomes and Allen have mostly had a cast of JAGs at WR.

I do not believe that Mahomes has had better wide receiver corps throughout his career than Josh Allen. I'm not sure how else to state it.

Yeah and people are giving you the counter opinion, that's what this place is for 

2 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Sometimes Brady didn't even have a great line, but he got rid of it so quick it didn't matter.

 

Bottom line is that when you pay an elite franchise QB such a large % of your cap, he needs to elevate the lessor players around him.

Who are these lesser players that mahomes and Brady elevate but Allen doesn't

[SWATeam]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

Who are these lesser players that mahomes and Brady elevate but Allen doesn't

Are you arguing that the Pats SB teams were loaded at the skill positions?

[Billsfan1972]

16 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I think they ranked the Bills correctly, but I have a problem with it.  I would like this to be an area the Bills prioritized into the top 10 range.

 

It's my hope the FO has all along been considering the $10M WR2 upgrade.  This put them in the OBJ + DHop discussions but ultimately got priced out.  It would also mean that an in-season trade is a realistic possibility.

 

If you put Mike Evans or Tyler Lockett into our group there would be a significant move up the ranks.

Winner winner chicken dinner...... 

 

Why are the Dolphins, Bengals (with Burrow an MVP candidate), Chargers, Cowboys & Eagles so much higher than the Bills?

 

The Bills should be investing in their most important asset, which is Allen and be better wrt their receiving corps.

 

That is my concern.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, SWATeam said:

Are you arguing that the Pats SB teams were loaded at the skill positions?

*and mahomes

[Success]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Winner winner chicken dinner...... 

 

Why are the Dolphins, Bengals (with Burrow an MVP candidate), Chargers, Cowboys & Eagles so much higher than the Bills?

 

The Bills should be investing in their most important asset, which is Allen and be better wrt their receiving corps.

 

That is my concern.

 

That's what the Colts did w/ Manning, practically every year. They got 1 SB out of it.

 

The Pats didn't - and got 6.

 

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

Come to think of it, I’ve never heard Josh talk about Knox in the way he describes Kincaid: “fun to throw to/good body language/etc,” but the addition of Kincaid does sound like Knox has upped his game (or maybe he’s the forgotten man?). This is the first camp I’ve heard Knox being mentioned almost daily in a positive write up.

Knox has potential, to quote Bill Parcells , “potential means you haven’t done *****”.  I want Knox to be Kelce, he’s got the tools, but whether it’s truly bad hands or lack of focus, he’s just not reliable as a receiver.   He’s a badass once he has the ball in his hands, but that’s pretty rare.  I think what we saw in college was more of an indication of his receiving skills than we wanted to admit.  Yes, he makes some AWESOME plays, but he’s just as likely to drop a routine ball.   I genuinely thought after his rookie year, he was going to make the jump to an elite type of guy, he’s basically a solid starter, more of an old school type of TE.  Not a bad thing, but not a genuine difference maker.

[DCofNC]

2 hours ago, BillsfaninChicago said:

Over the past two seasons he has over 1100 yards receiving and 15 touchdowns. Not All Pro level numbers but pretty good considering the personal tragedy he was dealing with.
 

Not saying it would make a huge difference but he does factor into a receiver analysis especially with some potential coverage relief in Kincaid. 

He’s just an average guy out there.  Let’s be honest and not frame it for more than it is.  He has great tools, the end result has been average.   Last year he was 14th in TE receiving yards, the difference between 14 and 30 is 110 yards.  The difference to number 1 is 800 yards 😂.  Even #2 is 400 more yards.   He’s not somebody you even give a second thought to, any starter in the NFL is expected to have about the same numbers.

[PBF81]

5 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

While still not week one and really have little to say until the season starts, thought this may spur some discussion.

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/8/17/23834765/rankings-the-nfl-best-past-catcher-receiving-group-2023

 

Interesting how low the Bills and Chiefs are on this list, which really then shows how highly they think of Mahomes & Allen.

 

Conversely Cincy, Dallas, SF, Chargers, Vikings, Eagles near the top. 

 

I have no comments outside I too give most of the credit to Allen for the Bills performance on offense, but let's hear the experts here debate it. 

 

Take Kelce off the Chiefs' list and IMO they're bottom three if not DFL.  

 

They're lucky to be ranked where they are.  IMO KC's going back to being a midling top-10 offense at best this season, where they were the three years prior to last year.  If Kelce were to get injured, they're pretty much screwed without a trade of some sort.  

 

 

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

Come to think of it, I’ve never heard Josh talk about Knox in the way he describes Kincaid: “fun to throw to/good body language/etc,” but the addition of Kincaid does sound like Knox has upped his game (or maybe he’s the forgotten man?). This is the first camp I’ve heard Knox being mentioned almost daily in a positive write up.

That's more because of what Josh is being asked, everyone is asking him about the fancy new toy and how he fits into the offense, everybody is already used to Knox.

[Jukester]

Stats and rankings have completely gotten out of hand. How/why they are measuring receiver abdominal strength is beyond me. 😉

[Einstein's Dog]

5 minutes ago, Success said:

 

That's what the Colts did w/ Manning, practically every year. They got 1 SB out of it.

 

The Pats didn't - and got 6.

 

Brady is not the same as Josh.  You don't construct your offense the same way.  

 

Josh is not easy to bring down, is elusive, and is one of the best ever throwing 20-25 yard downfield lasers.  The best way to maximize that skill set is to give him another top quality WR.  Upgrading the WR2 position would make this the most lethal offense in the league.

[Success]

5 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Brady is not the same as Josh.  You don't construct your offense the same way.  

 

Josh is not easy to bring down, is elusive, and is one of the best ever throwing 20-25 yard downfield lasers.  The best way to maximize that skill set is to give him another top quality WR.  Upgrading the WR2 position would make this the most lethal offense in the league.

 

I've gotta disagree.

 

We've spent years now watching JA run for his life & dazzle w/ his moves to elude the rush - but that's not a good thing.  Imagine if he had a second or 2 more back there, where he could be more calm & survey the field before having to make a move?

 

Time in the pocket is everything.  And we hear it all of the time from ex players & coaches - you build the trenches. The trenches are where championships are won.

 

[Logic]

36 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Yeah and people are giving you the counter opinion, that's what this place is for 

 

I don't really understand what your purpose was in engaging me on this matter.

You specifically asked for my opinion. I gave it. Now you're explaining to me how message boards work.

Color me confused.

[PrimeTime101]

5 hours ago, HOUSE said:

I posted 26 times in the DeAndre Hopkins thread but did anyone listen......no

maybe we can get @Simon to crack her open for ya and make it 27 times

[BigAl2526]

Buffalo has potential in the receiver group but little star power beyond Diggs. Even Davis has come up a bit short possibly due to his injury last year.  Having Josh Allen certainly elevates a receiver group, much the way Mahomes does in KC.  I wouldn't be surprised to see the ranking climb a bit next year.

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, Success said:

 

That's what the Colts did w/ Manning, practically every year. They got 1 SB out of it.

 

The Pats didn't - and got 6.

 

Is it so big an ask to want one more good receiver?  Oh I forgot it's all on Allen.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

While I have little respect for anything the Ringer says about the NFL, I’ll concur that their ranking is fairly accurate at this point, in spite of their errors. 

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

I don't really understand what your purpose was in engaging me on this matter.

You specifically asked for my opinion. I gave it. Now you're explaining to me how message boards work.

Color me confused.

Then maybe apply some of your namesake when you say this

5 hours ago, Logic said:

Funny...that ranking seems to be of the opinion that the Bills have better passing game weaponry than the Chiefs.

All I've heard around here lately is how Patrick Mahomes' receiving corps is sooooo much better than Josh Allen's. Huh.

and then call out people, myself included, who argue the opposite while attempting to use as proof the aforementioned article

[billsfan89]

18 seems fair, an elite WR1 a lower end WR2 and a bunch of spare parts or developing WR's to go along with a borderline top 10 TE and a first round pick at TE. Looking at the list I don't see too many other teams I would rank the Bills ahead of. But I do think the Bills will overachieve this ranking. 

 

I think Kincaid as a big slot WR will have a bigger impact than most think and I think the lesser known WR's like Harty, Sheffield and Shakir will be better. But right now the projection seems decent. 

[Buffalo Ballin]

Eh. It's just opinion like anyone else. Let's just get on the field already.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Is it so big an ask to want one more good receiver?  Oh I forgot it's all on Allen.

 

I mean, we did draft a pass receiving tight end in the first round.

[Nelius]

Lots of disagreement here but that Falcons ranking is truly ridiculous. 10th but their list reads like it’s bottom 3. Drake London was hardly the elite #1 they’re apparently making him out to be. This seems like it’s easily the dumbest ranking.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Nelius said:

Lots of disagreement here but that Falcons ranking is truly ridiculous. 10th but their list reads like it’s bottom 3. Drake London was hardly the elite #1 they’re apparently making him out to be. This seems like it’s easily the dumbest ranking.

How about Bucs 

[Billsfan1972]

21 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I mean, we did draft a pass receiving tight end in the first round.

And that brought their ranking up to 18????  

[FilthyBeast]

I think this is why about where they should be, if anything because of the simple fact that after Diggs there are still tons of question marks.

 

Yes Gabe Davis have flashed potential, but apparently he needs to be 100% healthy to truly be effective and injuries have been an issue (or excuse) with him his entire career.

 

The rest of the WR depth chart is just a bunch of guys and obviously Beane is hoping to get lucky with at least one of Harty, Isabella, Shakir, etc.

[LABILLBACKER]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think the Bills are ranked about right. Although Knox is a bigger weapon than Shakir as is Harty. So not sure totally on their method... but somewhere around halfway feels right. 

 

A top 5 #1 

A lower end #2

A borderline top 10 TE and a rookie Big Slot / TE

Sherfield who is a versatile, reliable backup. 

Cook who needs to show more as a pass catcher.

 

Not bad. But nowhere near elite.

Yes I agree. After Diggs, there is a substantial drop off. Sorry Gabe, no pun intended. Kincaid is a rookie who should help in the slot but will have growing pains. Davis has to prove himself worthy in this contract year. After that we'll need someone to rise up as that 4th target....Knox?....Sherfield?....who knows?.... but 15-18 is about right. 

[Simon Says]

4 hours ago, WotAGuy said:

 

In the case of the BiIls, it’s wide receiver corpse. 

Easy,now. But 😊 thanks!