Training Camp - 8/3 - 9:45am

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

It's worth noting that when Edwards arrived, he made a point that Kromer in LA tried the OLmen at every position but C.  He played behind a very good RT in LA.  But, a lot of G played RT in college and are IOL in the league.

 

It will be "up to" Kromer to assess which of Edwards, Shell (who has started 72 games at RT in the league) or maybe Gouraige is 'next man up'.

 

Tough circumstance for Brown, though.  Back injuries in a big OLman are hard to return from and reach potential.

 

 

Can we agree on the point that if it's ambiguous that different people see it differently, it's not a cold hard facts and logic thing?

Hate to say it, but Brown injury right now could actually end up being an addition by subtraction situation.

[NewEra]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

A drop and not a clean catch are not the same thing though.  People keep calling it a drop as if he literally dropped the ball.  And no disrespect to anyone, but most the people being hyper critical on that play don't understand the dynamics of difficulty in that catch.  Ball was on a rope 60 yards in the air, diving catch, and as rookie in his first playoff game with little play time prior to this.  Diggs has flat out dropped easy passes including TD's, yet is a top 5 WR.  But people harp on this one play, that yes would have been nice if he completed it, as if this one play defines the kids career forever.

 

It still is a "drop" on the stat sheet, but this was not like many drops Davis, McKenzie, Knox, etc had on way easier passes last year.  People need to stop over exaggerating and drilling so hard on this one play to condemn this kids entire future.  

 

Shakir may or may not make it in this league, but one thing for sure is that this one play isn't enough to figure that out.  

It’s a drop.  He should have caught it.  It wasn’t as egregious as some….. but as an nfl WR being paid to catch passes- shakir had to catch that pass.  
 

I agree one play means nothing.  I’m a fan of the kid.  I think his best attributes are gaining separation and RAC but had a quite a few of bad drops his last year in college

[Warcodered]

The secondary sounds suffocating, not even mentioning the D-line that also seems really good.

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

The secondary sounds suffocating, not even mentioning the D-line that also seems really good.

 

If Kaiir Elam can play to his strengths and build on this practice, the potential of a secondary consisting of White, Elam, Johnson, Hyde and Poyer is absurd. 

[HappyDays]

🤞

[In Summary]

3 hours ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Enough of Dane Jackson at CB2. We already know what he is.  Play Elam there so he can grow and take over that role. 

I don't understand this. Elam picked off Mahomes in the end zone which NEVER happens.

His other INT was likely the play that won us the Dolphins playoff game.

I thought he matched up against Tyreek Hill very strongly on a few reps 

Elam having to pay his penance for sins unseen to us.  I don't get it either.

[Warcodered]

 

 

 

[Chas56]

I'm starting to get worried about Spencer Brown's back problems. It reminds me of Terrell Troup, if I remember his name right. He was a second round pick at DT that never panned out because of back issues.

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I don't disagree that one play shouldn't define him. 

 

I think people are more reacting to the combination of that play, along with some reported struggles he seems to be having in camp.

 

And I'm more reacting to the description in your previous post "he made the catch but on the impact the ball slightly moved and as he rolled after hitting the ground the tip of the ball touched the turf".  It seems pretty clear in the replay that he never made a clean catch with both hands on the ball - it was between his arms and his body

 

I get you on that, and yeah concerns off of camp are always fair.  The one thing I would add is that its early and some reports have been conflicting too.  

 

As far as the play goes, I don't think what you are saying isn't accurate, I was referencing the others who keep saying he dropped it as if it hit his hands and then dropped the ball.  I think it not being caught clean is a fair assessment of the play, I was just pointing out the degree of difficulty was also higher than people think on that play too and for a rookie in his first playoff game who had not played much.  

 

For me, I am not here to say he is going to be a stud for sure or anything like that, I am just more pushing back on those who want to condemn the kid off one play or the fact he was a 5th round pick.  He will have to earn his spot and reps, but I still think he has potential.  

[Warcodered]

Josh is an awesome football thunderbolt throwing badass, he's also kind of crazy.

[GoBills808]

 

this is a drop

[NickelCity]

My summertime completely irrational hope is that Gouraige gets a shot to show whether he can hang with the 2s and 1s. 

 

A rookie tackle flashing in practice is intriguing. 

[Alphadawg7]

17 minutes ago, NewEra said:

It’s a drop.  He should have caught it.  It wasn’t as egregious as some….. but as an nfl WR being paid to catch passes- shakir had to catch that pass.  
 

I agree one play means nothing.  I’m a fan of the kid.  I think his best attributes are gaining separation and RAC but had a quite a few of bad drops his last year in college

 

Dont get me wrong, its still a drop in the sense he didn't make the play.  Just mean people have over exaggerated this play a bit and used this play too much to define or condemn the kid.

 

He still has to prove himself no doubt, but I think there is still reason to see potential in him.

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

 

this is a drop

 

No...No its not.  This is a photo of ball approaching a WR, it hasn't even reached his hands yet, so no this is not a photo of anyone dropping anything considering the ball hasn't even reached him yet.  

 

And he didn't let the ball go through his hands, he caught it but didn't secure it before the ball touched ground during the roll while securing it.  

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

Wonder why he thinks Bernard? Didn't know  Bernard has been better than Spector/Klein. If a RB that has some size would knock him 5 yards back and run him over like a truck if he  meets Bernard up the middle.

 

 

[YattaOkasan]

1 minute ago, Patrick Duffy said:

 

Wonder why he thinks Bernard? Didn't know  Bernard has been better than Spector/Klein. If a RB that has some size would knock him 5 yards back and run him over like a truck if he  meets Bernard up the middle.

 

 

Its based off of McD's comments.  He was asked why they didnt rotate Spector in.  He said they wanted to look closer at Bernard and Tdot.  I have not heard Klein doing anything and he seems to be meeting my expectation of vet on the PS.  Spector seems to have more juice than I expected but I will be surprised if he gets the MLB job.

[The Wiz]

 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

 

Nice to see Josh building their confidence.

[QLBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

If Dorian Williams is nothing more than a WLB then that pick becomes more of a head scratcher given Milano is signed through 2026.

Lot of time. Let the kid evolve a bit. He ultimately could be on the field based on injuries and his development. 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Fair.  So it was a reaction to a general turd-ness on his part and not that specific post?

Mix of both really

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Kincaid really should not even be blocking. That's what Knox and Gilliam/Morris/Sternberger are for

Open field blocking skill is a must have for all receivers. It is critical in establishing a dominant run game and screen game, particularly.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Kincaid really should not even be blocking. That's what Knox and Gilliam/Morris/Sternberger are for

 

Everyone that plays the game of football should block and will block 

[Bangarang]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Dont get me wrong, its still a drop in the sense he didn't make the play.  Just mean people have over exaggerated this play a bit and used this play too much to define or condemn the kid.

 

He still has to prove himself no doubt, but I think there is still reason to see potential in him.

 

No...No its not.  This is a photo of ball approaching a WR, it hasn't even reached his hands yet, so no this is not a photo of anyone dropping anything considering the ball hasn't even reached him yet.  

 

And he didn't let the ball go through his hands, he caught it but didn't secure it before the ball touched ground during the roll while securing it.  

Kid needs to make that catch. 

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, ddaryl said:

Because how the hell do you get better without reps? 

He gets reps every day in training camp.  Every day.  First team reps and second team reps.   It's exactly the same as JV football in high school, varsity, college.  The best players get the first team reps, because the coach wants the first team to play together.  

 

Coaches essentially never play the second best guy to give him reps.  That would be like saying sit Davis and give Shorter the first team reps.   Coaches don't do that.  When Shorter shows he may be better than another guy, he'll start sharing reps with that guy.   That is exactly where Elam is.

 

You don't play because you have potential. You play when you do your job better than the guy ahead of you.  

 

 

 

 

[34-78-83]

18 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

Wow that's a great rep for both of them! I love when that happens in the camp setting,

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

If Brown is banged up, Wonder if Bates could play RT? Any oline experts know? 

[BananaB]

30 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Dont get me wrong, its still a drop in the sense he didn't make the play.  Just mean people have over exaggerated this play a bit and used this play too much to define or condemn the kid.

 

He still has to prove himself no doubt, but I think there is still reason to see potential in him.

 

No...No its not.  This is a photo of ball approaching a WR, it hasn't even reached his hands yet, so no this is not a photo of anyone dropping anything considering the ball hasn't even reached him yet.  

 

And he didn't let the ball go through his hands, he caught it but didn't secure it before the ball touched ground during the roll while securing it.  

They should really look at some of his big catches. Had a few wow ones last year. And all the simple catches he produced some much needed yac, which Bills haven’t had much of the past few seasons

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

If Brown is banged up, Wonder if Bates could play RT? Any oline experts know? 

Not with those 32 inch arms. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

1 minute ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

If Brown is banged up, Wonder if Bates could play RT? Any oline experts know? 

I'm no OL expert but I can say this. Beane has said in the past that they view Bates as someone that could "get you out of a game at RT of needed". Not a ringing endorsement for a long term stint, however he could be used if needed in a pinch. I view it kind of like Hyde being the emergency QB.

 

I do know I have read some say his arms are a bit short to hold down the position. With the shorter arms and not really any elite traits to make up for it he would likely struggle to keep engaged on the guy he's tasked to block.

[Beck Water]

36 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I get you on that, and yeah concerns off of camp are always fair.  The one thing I would add is that its early and some reports have been conflicting too.  

 

For me, I am not here to say he is going to be a stud for sure or anything like that, I am just more pushing back on those who want to condemn the kid off one play or the fact he was a 5th round pick.  He will have to earn his spot and reps, but I still think he has potential.  

 

I totally agree with that second part.  I also agree that it's difficult to sort what eye-witnesses are reporting from camp, because they aren't reporting the whole thing.

 

Case in point: On Tues, most people reporting from camp assess that the defense won the day with 6 "sacks" on 25 dropbacks.  But Joe Buscaglia, who is nothing if not methodical, reported that despite the "sacks" and PBU, Josh was something like 19 of 25 for hitting the player he targeted in passing.    And that gives a different impression of the day: yeah, the offense struggled but they were getting their shots in too.

[SectionC3]

6 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

If Brown is banged up, Wonder if Bates could play RT? Any oline experts know? 

Sure.  But not for long.  I think he finished the “Duke Williams” game against the Titans at RT.  But that’s probably as far as it goes there.

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I'm no OL expert but I can say this. Beane has said in the past that they view Bates as someone that could "get you out of a game at RT of needed". Not a ringing endorsement for a long term stint, however he could be used if needed in a pinch. I view it kind of like Hyde being the emergency QB.

 

I do know I have read some say his arms are a bit short to hold down the position. With the shorter arms and not really any elite traits to make up for it he would likely struggle to keep engaged on the guy he's tasked to block.

It wouldn’t be as bad as the short-lived “let’s see if Andy Levitre is a tackle” experiment of pre-seasons gone by. 

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

If Brown is banged up, Wonder if Bates could play RT? Any oline experts know? 

 

In emergency.  They are going to look at Brandon Shell first, I would guess.  Gouraige might get a look, as might Edwards.

 

It's not that Bates couldn't play RT in an emergency, but he's one snap away from going in at C and if he doesn't start the season at RG, one snap away from going in at G.  They want to go into the season with an RT who isn't their backup C, is my guess.

 

Shell has started 72  games at RT for NYJ, SEA, and MIA, including 11 last season and 10 the previous season.  That makes him this year's "Daryl Williams/Ty Nsekhe Plan B" at RT IMHO.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Beck Water

[78thealltimegreat]

45 minutes ago, Chas56 said:

I'm starting to get worried about Spencer Brown's back problems. It reminds me of Terrell Troup, if I remember his name right. He was a second round pick at DT that never panned out because of back issues.

That was the Gronk draft…Gronk a Buffalo native was there and the Bills took this guy…painful memory 

[benderbender]

Beane might have chess’d the checker by bringing in Shell. All he has to do is be 10% healthier than Spencer Brown.

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, boyst said:

isabela gonna be this years darick rodgers and isiah hodgins

who was the white guy from around Dareus rookie year i think it was lol him too also marcus easley

[freddyjj]

3 hours ago, Process said:

We knew this right away. Beane said immediately after the draft pick in his press conference that he was a special teams player. Brutal. 

...and what was Milano as a Rookie in camp?  Backup to Ramon Humber at WLB then took over late in season.  

 

Williams might be a factor at MLB but might take until next year.  And if Milano gets hurt like in 2020 when he missed  8 of 19 games we have a real replacement WLB  now.

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Our and my point is we are not elite at OT, DT, and DE. With limited resources as you said you can't waste 3rd round picks on project players at positions that are not of need. They play 2 LBs the vast majority of the time. Whoever is not the starting MLB has traditionally been the backup for both LB spots. 

Best case scenario, Milano stays healthy all year and the kid sits all year. 

Sure, but most teams aren’t, this begs the question; why do fans even think every starting position player is going to be elite? It’s a total fallacy, we very obviously have real talent in those positions, with the additional of Floyd the D line is all the better, especially so “if” Von heals up well. Sean being more aggressive in D play calling I think we will see better use of personnel, something that has been a point of contention amongst we fans, 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

Updates from Matt Parrino and Ryan Talbot today:

 

 

 

 

 

A couple more updates:

 

Quote

More from practice:

Andy Isabella had his best day of camp & worked w/ 2nd team offense - has contested catches and showed off toughness. On one play took a major hit from Cam Lewis but held onto the ball & fell over goal line for a TD. He also had a nice sliding catch in team drills & a TD in 1on1s working against rookie Alex Austin.

Tyrell Shavers made the most impressive catch of the day when he showed his toughness. Dean Marlowe tried to blow up the play but the rookie UDFA held onto the ball.

 

Quote

Stop me if these updates get boring, but Dalton Kincaid w/ another banner day (I'm guessing positive Kincaid updates won't fit that category 😉). So dependable and fluid as route runner & pass catcher.

Here's what Josh Allen said about him after practice today:

"Really trusting in his body language and he's speaking very easily to the quarterbacks right now and giving us good places to throw the ball for him. ... I just feel like no moment, right now, is too big for him. He understands the offense. He understands his role in the offense. He's not trying to do more than what he needs to."

 

[freddyjj]

34 minutes ago, Patrick Duffy said:

 

Everyone that plays the game of football should block and will block 

and like it!!

[Patrick Duffy]

11 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Its based off of McD's comments.  He was asked why they didnt rotate Spector in.  He said they wanted to look closer at Bernard and Tdot.  I have not heard Klein doing anything and he seems to be meeting my expectation of vet on the PS.  Spector seems to have more juice than I expected but I will be surprised if he gets the MLB job.

 

I understand wanting to get a closer look at Bernard, that's expected. I'm talking about that report the guy believes it's down to Bernard and Dodson. So I'm wondering why/what it is that gives him that impression?  Is it only due to today that McD decided it was time to  get a closer look?

 

Now that today Bernard is getting some extra reps so McD gets a closer look, from that he gets that it's down to Bernard and Dodson?

[Bangarang]

14 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

That was the Gronk draft…Gronk a Buffalo native was there and the Bills took this guy…painful memory 

The ironic part is that Gronk had injury concerns regarding his back coming out and the guy we drafted ended up having a shortened career because of back problems.