Training Camp 7/31 9:45 AM - Full pads this week

[YattaOkasan]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Way too early for this I would say...they are not going to hand Elam the job, so not a surprise he didn't enter camp as the default guy opposite Tre.  Lot of football left before they decide who starts and doesn't.  This time of year all kinds of guys can look great or look behind, but it all changes when the real football begins to shape everyone out.  

 

I still think Elam has a good shot to win the job, but he is going to need to earn it because Dane and Benford are no slouch.  And once you are drafted, your draft slot means nothing, its all about what you do on the field.  Doesn't matter if the best players comes from an UDFA or a first round pick, just matters who is playing the best and most ready to help us win games.

I agree I think he has to earn and more so than other players. 5 star recruit I believe playing in the SEC. Would surprise me if McD felt he had to teach him a bit. I’m hopeful because when push came to shove in the playoffs they went with Elam. 

[jkeerie]

2 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Well normally lol. I wonder If that scare was just enough for McD to say to himself... "Thats enough of this crap... Wrap it up guys" And then outloud say BUT NOT THE QB. lol.

 

You pulled that at the college level? You doing laps, pushups or both lol

That was Shane Falco's line in the movie The Replacements when he was tackled hard during practice.

[Coach Tuesday]

Not hearing anything about Shakir lately…

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Not hearing anything about Shakir lately…

 

Shakir's problem is he doesn't appear to do anything particularly well. He could be a replacement level slot WR for some teams, but how does a player like that make noise when a highly skilled player like Kincaid is playing the same position at a much higher level? He's kind of in no man's land on this roster.

[eball]

52 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

I’m concerned Josh may have tweaked his right hammy. Let’s hope it’s nothing. 

Based upon what exactly?

 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Buffalo619 said:

I’m concerned Josh may have tweaked his right hammy. Let’s hope it’s nothing. 

 

Why?

 

6 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

Reports that he got up and was walking gingerly with a hand on his right hamstring. 

 

Where are these reports? 

 

Reports linked here are that he hesitated to get up and gestured toward his stomach area (as though he were winded), got up and limped (unclear why), was seen kneeling on the sideline between Dorsey and Diggs for the last two plays, and then walked around signing autographs  (Coach Sal) and that he said he was all right to members of the media and gave a CBS interview (Matt Parrino)

 

No trainer attention.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Beck Water

[Logic]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Where are these reports? 

 

Reports linked here are that he hesitated to get up and gestured toward his stomach area (as though he were winded), got up and limped (unclear why), was seen kneeling on the sideline between Dorsey and Diggs for the last two plays, and then walked around signing autographs  (Coach Sal) and that he said he was all right to members of the media and gave a CBS interview (Matt Parrino)

 

No trainer attention.

HOW DARE YOU?!

This detailed and well-reasoned refutation of the unfounded fears mentioned above WILL not stand!

[Alphadawg7]

33 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Shakir's problem is he doesn't appear to do anything particularly well. He could be a replacement level slot WR for some teams, but how does a player like that make noise when a highly skilled player like Kincaid is playing the same position at a much higher level? He's kind of in no man's land on this roster.

 

I still think Shakir has upside to be a good player.  No guarantees, and he will have to earn it on the field, but I think its too early to write him off.  Not a surprise that all eyes and attention are on Kincaid coming in as a first round pick, but I think Shakir still can carve out a good role on this team.  

[HappyDays]

 

[Richard Noggin]

15 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

Inject this into my veins.

 

Seriously. I lack dopamine.

[GimmeSomeProcess]

6 hours ago, NewEra said:

Uhhhh but I heard from a Carolina fan that McD’s D is the same D that we’ve been watching the last few years and to expect nothing to change 

But when McDermott was calling it, they actually performed well enough to get to the Super Bowl 

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

But when McDermott was calling it, they actually performed well enough to get to the Super Bowl 

Yup.  It was a sarcastic post

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, Buffalo619 said:

Reports that he got up and was walking gingerly with a hand on his right hamstring. 

He’s fine he was literally signing autographs and barbecue sauce after practice 

 

[Charles Romes]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I still think Shakir has upside to be a good player.  No guarantees, and he will have to earn it on the field, but I think its too early to write him off.  Not a surprise that all eyes and attention are on Kincaid coming in as a first round pick, but I think Shakir still can carve out a good role on this team.  

all the podcasts and campniks last summer were touting shakir like he was the steal of the draft, already had a pro game, great instincts etc. - not unlike the Kincaid raves this year. 

[HappyDays]

 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I still think Shakir has upside to be a good player.  No guarantees, and he will have to earn it on the field, but I think its too early to write him off.  Not a surprise that all eyes and attention are on Kincaid coming in as a first round pick, but I think Shakir still can carve out a good role on this team.  

The good news is, it appears there is no rush for shuker to be a difference maker. It’s looking like Kincaid is going to be a stud coming right out the gate and this team looks like it’s going to be running more too tight and sets

 

But

 

He better start figuring out how to contribute on special teams really quick

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

The good news is, it appears there is no rush for shuker to be a difference maker. It’s looking like Kincaid is going to be a stud coming right out the gate and this team looks like it’s going to be running more too tight and sets

 

But

 

He better start figuring out how to contribute on special teams really quick

I don’t think he will need to play ST to make the team, he’s gonna likely be the starting slot WR.  That being said, Shakir already does bring ST experience to the team as a returner.  
 

His roster spot is not in jeopardy IMHO

[HappyDays]

32 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

all the podcasts and campniks last summer were touting shakir like he was the steal of the draft, already had a pro game, great instincts etc. - not unlike the Kincaid raves this year. 

 

It's nothing like what we've heard about Kincaid this year. Almost all of the Shakir hype from last year was because a lot of draftniks incorrectly pegged him as a 2nd or 3rd round talent, so many fans felt that we got a steal taking him in the 5th round. As far as I remember he didn't actually stand out in training camp at all. He never earned a high volume role.

 

Kincaid on the other hand has immediately earned a high volume role on the 1st team and every observer is commenting on how well his skill set is fitting into the offense.

 

I think Shakir will ultimately make the roster but as the last WR on the depth chart. It sounds like even Sherfield has overtaken him. We no longer need a true full time slot WR with Kincaid taking over that role. I won't be totally shocked if Beane flips him for a 6th or 7th rounder right before final cuts.

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by HappyDays

[Ethan in Cleveland]

7 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Top 10 ILBs by AAV per Spotrac (note: I'm aware there are rookies on 1st contracts who are good and also that this combines 3-4 and 4-3 inside lb)

[All data per NFL Draft And Combine Profiles]

Roquan Smith 6'1 236 grade 7.0 "pro bowl talent"

Shaquille Leonard 6'2" 234 grade  grade 6.3 "will eventually be plus starter"

Fred Warner 6'3" 236 grade 6.1 "good backup with potential to develop into starter"

Tre Edmunds "wingspan of a pteradactyl" 6'5"253 grade 7.3 "perennial all-pro"

CJ Mosely 6'2" 234 grade 7.0 "pro bowl talent"

Deion Jones 6'1" 222 grade 6.1 "good backup with potential to develop into starter"

De'Vondre Campbell 6'4" 232 grade 5.8 "average backup or special teamer"

Demario Davis 6'2" 235 grade makes no sense, but profile written as "initial special teamer" - 6.1 maybe?

Devin White 6'0" 237 grade 6.7 "year 1 starter"

Ja'whaun Bently 6'2" 260  grade: 5.6 "bottom of roster or practice squad"

 

That's a height average of 6'2" with a range from 6'0" to 6'6"

Wt average 238 with a range from 222 to 260.

 

Our guy Terrel:

Terrel Bernard: 6'1" 224 grade 5.94 "average backup or special teamer

Free bonus from this year's draft:

Dorian Williams 6'1" 228 grade 6.1 "good backup with potential to develop into starter"
The MLB competition:

Tyrel Dodson 6'0" 237 grade 5.6 "candidate for bottom of roster or practice squad"

Baylon Spector 6'0" 233 grade 5.83 "average backup or special teamer"

 

So there you have it.  I included the draft grades from NFL Draft and Combine Profiles to show that while 4 of the top-10 contracts graded high before the draft, a number of others were graded as backups or bottom of the roster/ST guys.

 

It's not Bernard's size per se.  When I saw him in a game last season, I thought he was playing very tentative, like he was still thinking out there.  He'd make the right diagnosis, but get there late, and when he got there, he didn't THUMP, he would tackle and get dragged 3-5 yards.

 

Actually it is his size. He's too small to play MLB. He's 14 pounds below your average weight you calculated. 

I completely agreed with letting Edmunds walk. He was a fraud. 

Just don't understand Beane's thinking with Bernard and Dorian Williams.  Would love to trade one of our running backs to Seattle for Wagner. 

[gordong]

Anyone else see the tweets by Leonardo Pagnatti. @pagnattiespn.  He says we are signing dalvin  cook and Jarvis Landry 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Why?

 

 

Where are these reports? 

 

Reports linked here are that he hesitated to get up and gestured toward his stomach area (as though he were winded), got up and limped (unclear why), was seen kneeling on the sideline between Dorsey and Diggs for the last two plays, and then walked around signing autographs  (Coach Sal) and that he said he was all right to members of the media and gave a CBS interview (Matt Parrino)

 

No trainer attention.

Just to be clear he said he was alright after the Jets wrecked his elbow. 

He is not going to admit anything. I'm not saying he actually was hurt. I'm just saying Josh would never admit it if he was.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

But when McDermott was calling it, they actually performed well enough to get to the Super Bowl 

I'm a McD critic, but his defense played well in the 2015 playoffs. Beat Russell Wilson and Carson Palmer and then completely shut down the Broncos and the broken down Manning in the SuperBowl.  

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Shakir's problem is he doesn't appear to do anything particularly well. He could be a replacement level slot WR for some teams, but how does a player like that make noise when a highly skilled player like Kincaid is playing the same position at a much higher level? He's kind of in no man's land on this roster.

 

 

Yeah,  he's a taint.  Guys like that gotta' have some extraordinary intangibles or unusual skill to crack a lineup and there isn't any indication that is the case with Shakir.   When it became clear last season that he didn't have reliable hands my already modest expectations were significantly lowered.   

[JerseyBills]

27 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Just to be clear he said he was alright after the Jets wrecked his elbow. 

He is not going to admit anything. I'm not saying he actually was hurt. I'm just saying Josh would never admit it if he was.

We'll find out tmrw

If there's an inkling of an injury he'll be limited in TC 

[BananaB]

Last year during TC all anyone talked about was how good Shakir hands are. I think he’s gonna settle in that slot role nicely. Last year he was just getting his feet wet and he’s had a slow start to camp. It’ll get better. 

[MasterStrategist]

50 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

It's nothing like what we've heard about Kincaid this year. Almost all of the Shakir hype from last year was because a lot of draftniks incorrectly pegged him as a 2nd or 3rd round talent, so many fans felt that we got a steal taking him in the 5th round. As far as I remember he didn't actually stand out in training camp at all. He never earned a high volume role.

 

Kincaid on the other hand has immediately earned a high volume role on the 1st team and every observer is commenting on how well his skill set is fitting into the offense.

 

I think Shakir will ultimately make the roster but as the last WR on the depth chart. It sounds like even Sherfield has overtaken him. We no longer need a true full time slot WR with Kincaid taking over that role. I won't be totally shocked if Beane flips him for a 6th or 7th rounder right before final cuts.

 

I'm not so certain Sherfield has overtaken Shakir.  Of course Harty and Sherfield are getting reps, but they're moving all these around...inside at the slot and outside.

 

Shakir has gotten most of the slot reps, when Kincaid isn't out there with Knox.

 

Dorsey is mixing and matching a lot of personell groupings right now, seeing what is looking best and which players are right for those formations.

 

I'd be 100% shocked if Beane moved Shakir.  He's valuable alone as a return man, and he's got 3 cost controlled seasons remaining.  He's a RAC player, has very good hands (despite what some might say, or his 1 drop the other day), and a willing blocker.  

 

I'd also guess Shorter locks down the 6th spot.  He's got a lot of tools to refine, but has immediate S/T value, big target/deep ball speed.  They aren't giving up on another young WR quickly, especially after Hodgins (despite his injuries, etc).

[Dan in Owego]

Any word on Richard Gouraige? had a good feeling on him as a long shot to make this roster.

[Richard Noggin]

20 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah,  he's a taint.  Guys like that gotta' have some extraordinary intangibles or unusual skill to crack a lineup and there isn't any indication that is the case with Shakir.   When it became clear last season that he didn't have reliable hands my already modest expectations were significantly lowered.   

 

Even if you are correct more often than not, this kind of pettiness towards a 5th rounder is weird. 

 

Are people claiming that Shakir is some kind of hidden breakout talent? Or is he like just a valid WR depth and special teams R candidate with a lot of work to do? Shouldn't really be much talent assessment credibility on the line right about meow...

 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I don’t think he will need to play ST to make the team, he’s gonna likely be the starting slot WR.  That being said, Shakir already does bring ST experience to the team as a returner.  
 

His roster spot is not in jeopardy IMHO

I don’t think his spot on the team is in jeopardy either I think a bit more in terms of playing time
 

They paid a lot of money for Harti and they drafted Kincaid

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Actually it is his size. He's too small to play MLB. He's 14 pounds below your average weight you calculated. 

I completely agreed with letting Edmunds walk. He was a fraud. 

Just don't understand Beane's thinking with Bernard and Dorian Williams.  Would love to trade one of our running backs to Seattle for Wagner. 

We would all love that….. but there’s zero chance of that happening.  Why would seattle trade Wagner fit Harris or Murray when they can sign hunt, fournette, Zeke or Dalvin?  
 

Sounds like Walker and Charbonnet will both be back for the regular season.  

I agree- I hated drafting Bernard and dorian back to back 3rd round.  I like the Williams pick as I think he can play the middle in time.  Bernard though…..  I feel like being Milanos replacement for injury is his only place on this defense.  

 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Even if you are correct more often than not, this kind of pettiness towards a 5th rounder is weird. 

 

Are people claiming that Shakir is some kind of hidden breakout talent? Or is he like just a valid WR depth and special teams R candidate with a lot of work to do? Shouldn't really be much talent assessment credibility on the line right about meow...

 

 

 

I'm sorry Mrs. Shakir.......it's just an honest assessment of a player who many fans felt was a 2nd round talent stolen in the 5th round that should have taken over the starting slot role after he had 3 for 75 versus Pittsburgh.     

 

He's very short armed and lacks long speed so he is not a good bet to win battles on the outside, where free releases can't be schemed as easily and where that lack of speed encourages long armed boundary CB's to press him without fear of being beaten deep.    

 

Inside,  he's not a twitchy athlete,  has reportedly not been good at finding his way against zone coverage and there has to be legit concern about putting the ball on him in traffic in the quick game with what we've seen of his hands.

 

It remains to be seen what Shakir is actually good at that will make him "valid" WR depth.         

 

[The Wiz]

6 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

I’m concerned Josh may have tweaked his right hammy. Let’s hope it’s nothing. 

That was hailee's fault.  Not tarons.

[BananaB]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I'm sorry Mrs. Shakir.......it's just an honest assessment of a player who many fans felt was a 2nd round talent stolen in the 5th round that should have taken over the starting slot role after he had 3 for 75 versus Pittsburgh.     

 

He's very short armed and lacks long speed so he is not a good bet to win battles on the outside, where free releases can't be schemed as easily and where that lack of speed encourages long armed boundary CB's to press him without fear of being beaten deep.    

 

Inside,  he's not a twitchy athlete,  has reportedly not been good at finding his way against zone coverage and there has to be legit concern about putting the ball on him in traffic in the quick game with what we've seen of his hands.

 

It remains to be seen what Shakir is actually good at that will make him "valid" WR depth.         

 

Kid had a really good camp for a rookie last year and maybe an even better preseason. That has a lot to do with the hype he got last year. We have seen very little of him to make any accurate assessment on him based on last year.  He probably should have taken over that slot roll last year but McD has trouble sitting vets who play poorly. He did some good things in very minor roll. 

[julian]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Wow, that ball placement is ridiculous.

[eball]

10 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

Reports that he got up and was walking gingerly with a hand on his right hamstring. 

 

He was also joking with Diggs and Dorsey moments later, stayed to sign autographs, told media members he passed by that he was ok, and did an extended, stand-up interview with NFL Network afterwards.  Never seen by trainers, no hurry to get into the locker room.

 

I’d say your concern is a little unfounded.

 

8 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I don’t think he will need to play ST to make the team, he’s gonna likely be the starting slot WR.  That being said, Shakir already does bring ST experience to the team as a returner.  
 

His roster spot is not in jeopardy IMHO

 

Seeing as how Beane spent his #1 draft pick and WR FA pool on three slot players, I’m not sure how you come to that conclusion at this point in training camp.

 

[eball]

7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I would… not Beanes MO to give up on his draft picks after one year in the league. He’ll keep Shakir around even if he has a meh camp/preseason. 

 

Is it any GM’s MO to give up on draft picks after one season?  I seem to recall you also saying Beane would “never” admit his mistake with Cody Ford…

 

Beane gives players he drafts a chance — which is just about the most normal, reasonable thing any GM would do.  He also doesn’t think, as you apparently do, that a player “is who he is” after one season and can never grow or develop.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by eball

[Ethan in Cleveland]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

We would all love that….. but there’s zero chance of that happening.  Why would seattle trade Wagner fit Harris or Murray when they can sign hunt, fournette, Zeke or Dalvin?  
 

Sounds like Walker and Charbonnet will both be back for the regular season.  

I agree- I hated drafting Bernard and dorian back to back 3rd round.  I like the Williams pick as I think he can play the middle in time.  Bernard though…..  I feel like being Milanos replacement for injury is his only place on this defense.  

 

I agree. Just wishful thinking on my part to get Wagner. Their RBs are injured again and we probably have one too many for the roster. 

[freddyjj]

9 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Actually it is his size. He's too small to play MLB. He's 14 pounds below your average weight you calculated. 

I completely agreed with letting Edmunds walk. He was a fraud. 

Just don't understand Beane's thinking with Bernard and Dorian Williams.  Would love to trade one of our running backs to Seattle for Wagner. 

Zach Thomas was 5’11” and 225 lbs and was a perennial all pro playing MLB for Fins.  Granted it was a different era but he was good vs run and never left the field. 

[Royale with Cheese]

10 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Actually it is his size. He's too small to play MLB. He's 14 pounds below your average weight you calculated. 

I completely agreed with letting Edmunds walk. He was a fraud. 

Just don't understand Beane's thinking with Bernard and Dorian Williams.  Would love to trade one of our running backs to Seattle for Wagner. 

Darius Leonard plays at about 220 lbs and the best MLB in the game.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Kay Adams is here today. In case you were wondering I called dibs first. She’s mine.