Training Camp 7/30 9:45am

[78thealltimegreat]

Gabe’s problem is really he should be a 3 instead of a 2… but now with Dalton if he can be at least an average 2 then that’s all this team needs 

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, Arkady Renko said:

Do those rankings take into account Allen only having 16 games last season?

 

Good point, no actually.  So if the stats had held on average, Davis would have had another 3 catches for another 51 yards and would have finished the season with nearly 900 yards.  

 

As to Allen, he'd have finished 4th.  I see no reason as to why he can't lead the NFL, again, my point.  He still would have been 700 yards away from Mahomes.  

 

Imagine say 5,500 yards from Allen?  Unattainable?  Who knows, but IMO it's entirely possible, again, IF the offense clicks on Dorsey's end.  

 

 

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

If Kincaid works out to what they said he will, then his role will be identical to Kelce's, their size has nothing to do with it.  

Kelce does anything but play in a conventional TE role.  He's primarily on the field as a receiver.  

 

If all we get from Kincaid is "Hernandez," then it'll be yet another draft failure for Beane.   Which TE Evans are you referring to? 

 

You mean killer on the field or off?

[freddyjj]

4 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Wasn’t it Bates who virtually gave away 2 games last year with bad snaps? If I’m correct, that it was him @ Miami and Home to Minny, I don’t want him anywhere near Allen!

@Chandler#81 The Minny fumble at our own goal line was with Morse.  Van Roten was in Miami game when snap / fumble occurred on 1st drive last SEP.   Allen recovered that and Bills went on to score. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by freddyjj

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Gabe’s problem is really he should be a 3 instead of a 2… but now with Dalton if he can be at least an average 2 then that’s all this team needs 

 

People put too much emphasis on the #2/#3 nomenclature.  

 

Davis has a role as a deep Alvin Harper type.  Harper probabaly wasn't a typical #2 either, but he consistently finished 2nd in receiving yards on Dallas.  

 

Davis does it well, catches TDs and logs 1st-Downs for huge plays.  We have no one else that does what he does.  He's a very effective part of the offense despite that he's not a fan favorite.  

 

If he catches 50-60 passes averaging 17 YPR for 8-10 TDs he's tremendously valuable.  

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

 

has the dude stopped smiling since he came off the plane? lol. fun to listen to

[freddyjj]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

It wasn't as Morse was the center.  And Josh fumbled that one.

And @Chandler#81

 

here is YouTube video showing it was Morse at center at goal line.  And yes, I agree that one was in Josh

 

Go to 35 sec mark for best view 

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

20 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Good point, no actually.  So if the stats had held on average, Davis would have had another 3 catches for another 51 yards and would have finished the season with nearly 900 yards.  

 

As to Allen, he'd have finished 4th.  I see no reason as to why he can't lead the NFL, again, my point.  He still would have been 700 yards away from Mahomes.  

 

Imagine say 5,500 yards from Allen?  Unattainable?  Who knows, but IMO it's entirely possible, again, IF the offense clicks on Dorsey's end.  

 

 

 

No reason why? Late season weather alone is a huge reason why we shouldn't expect Allen to lead the league in yards. 

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, scuba guy said:

Did you not read the article about Allen the kid walked thru fire to save,his bother 60% burns

And all the other details !!  Just Wow.

 Good on Josh

and that Kids surprise was epic.

 Josh is a good dude

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 hours ago, jkeerie said:

I know for certain it wasn't Bates.  Wasn't it Greg Mancz?

You very well may be right. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

No reason why? Late season weather alone is a huge reason why we shouldn't expect Allen to lead the league in yards. 

Or the fact that the guy you're talking to wants Davis to catch 50-70 balls...which would amount to 100-140targets....which would be like 20+% of all Allen's throws 😂😂

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, Virgil said:

I respectfully disagree.  If there were a stud RT available that we could slot on day 1, I think that could be more important than an offensive weapon.  
 

Giving Josh a full extra second to process and throw makes everyone better.  Not to mention adding a run game. 
 

Could Brown pan out? Sure.  But look at what Hurts and the eagles did with that offensive line.  

I think IOL is more important for that one second. Improve the guards and the center and Tackles get better immediately.
Josh can manage a RT losing a battle. But when they come up the middle ? Its brutal.

and being able to step up and INTO the pocket will be a huge improvement.

Feel they covered all the above and added a real honest long term gem in the pass game with Kincaid.

 Its early , and enthusiasm is high for all I hope

[loyal2dagame]

I was at practice today and this is a few things i noticed: 

The Bills DBs did not look good in 1 in 1 drills. Diggs vs Tre 3 straight times.  Diggs shook Tre 2 times for catches,  and in the third,  made a ridiculous catch that could not be defended, and probably isn't caught by many others. 

The DBs were grabbing alot of jersey in their 1 in 1 drills. Makes me nervous. 

 

Sherfield has a few nice grabs and looked good. Isabella looked as quick as a hiccup running solo wr drills.

 

 One thing I noticed is that when Diggs was making cuts,  it looked like he was planting and pivoting like a basketball move where his foot motion was smooth never stopped. Other receivers were planting to stop and then turning. I guess that is one of the differences between average and elite.

 

Lataviius Murry is like Andre the Giant next to the other rbs. This dude is a tree.

Watched some nice screens and dumps to Cook which got me excited as our offense needs to utilize these more. 

Twas a beautiful day in the sun.

[stevewin]

4 hours ago, The Wiz said:

 

[PBF81]

10 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

No reason why? Late season weather alone is a huge reason why we shouldn't expect Allen to lead the league in yards. 

 

Maybe, but as some have typically pointed out here, there's not always snowstorms here in Buffalo in December.  Cold yes, typically, but cold alone does not hinder a passing game, at least it shouldn't to that extent.   We have clear-weather December games more often than not.  

 

 

[drummernut74]

7 minutes ago, stevewin said:

Sam Adams, is that you? 🤣

[In Summary]

1 hour ago, JDubya76 said:

Is there an article from today? The most current article I see is from the 28th.

Likely not yet. Sometimes people have mentioned Astro's notes in it's own thread. I just put it here in the training camp thread.

[MasterStrategist]

39 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Gabe’s problem is really he should be a 3 instead of a 2… but now with Dalton if he can be at least an average 2 then that’s all this team needs 

He's been an average 2, at least, already.

 

Team has lacked a "consistent" 3rd pass catching option, LY specifically.  

 

Gabe isn't Stefon.  But he's a good boundary receiver in our offense, along with being one of our best blocking receivers.  Ask any WR coach and that's an important trait.

 

We need Kincaid, or the 3-headed slot trio to give us more than LY.  Not like we were that bad/far off anyhow, we're talking about fine tuning a great offense into an elite group (which need better oline play as well).  

 

Seems like we have:

1. A healthy/lighter/slightly quicker Gabe

2. Consistent 3rd option- Kincaid so far

3. Hopefully better IOL and RT play

4. More diverse offense/improved Dprsey through experience

 

I'm optimistic, but it's not like Gabe has to be a #3 target in this offense.  We actually just need a consistent slot guy.

[In Summary]

1 hour ago, Jerry Jabber said:

That’s from Friday, July 28th.

Astro may update (?). Didn't want to start a new tread.

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Kelce is a conventional sized tight end. Kincaid is a true tweener.  He could be a big wideout in a pinch.  He's close to Evans.  He's like Hernandez was.  Kelce is different.  

 

Regardless, there is nothing to suggest Beane was copying KC.  Nothing.  

At first I thought this was an awesome post but then i got to think... what are the real size differences?

 

Kelce 6'5 256

Kincaid 6'4 240

 

I would not hang my hat on 1 inch and 16 pounds.... Kincaid can easly get 10 pounds of weight this preseason and then we would be talking 1 inch and 6 pounds?  I disagree that there is even a narrative concerning conventional and size when it comes to TE because many TE do great things at all different sizes.  Wouldn't you call a conventional TE one that block and catches well? That would be like Kittle.

 

Kittle is 6'4 250. an inch less and 6 pounds less... 5th in total yards among TE. but would Kittle Not be considered the more conventional TE/size? 

 

Not sure I would hang my hat on that narrative. To the last part bolded? 1000% agree

 

Evans is 6'5 231. 19 pounds lighter. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by PrimeTime101

[OldTimer1960]

5 hours ago, whorlnut said:

There were no bigger needs than offensive weapon and oline and Beane addressed both in the first two rounds. MLB was never a huge “need” for them and that showed during the draft. Just because some fans thought it was didn’t make it a reality. They never pulled the wool over anyones eyes when they kept saying they liked what they already had in house. 

I hope they are right about the candidates they have in-house… I WANT to be wrong about Bernard, but man he looks tiny out there and going with former UDFA Tyrell Dodson would seem desperate.  Now, maybe one or both can really play, I sure hope so.

[PBF81]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

But you lay some work down first.  

 

BTW, and for purposes of the discussion at hand, one of the ways in which Beane has been "original," is in getting a generational franchise QB and then doing next to nothing to build an effective OL in front of him both to protect him as well as to help him develop.  

 

Most GMs and all good GMS that have that kind of a QB realize the importance of protecting him and then do something significant about it besides a revolving door of journeymen OL-men, a 2nd-round pick, and a late 3rd-round pick in five drafts.   

 

So there's that originality as well.  

 

Just sayin'.  

 

 

[Jerry Jabber]

Every year, there are players that look good before the pads come on, then disappear after the pads come on. Also, there are some players that look great in TC/Pre-season, but bomb out in the regular season. Curious to see who’s the real deal, and who are the pretenders.

[muppy]

6 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Every year, there are players that look good before the pads come on, then disappear after the pads come on. Also, there are some players that look great in TC/Pre-season, but bomb out in the regular season. Curious to see who’s the real deal, and who are the pretenders.

wearing pads and getting after it Ones on Ones  separates the men from the boys. The cream will rise to the top.

 

The  Bills did spend significant capital on signing a guy like Leonard Floyd to our DL.  He is a name I am curious about moving forward. And his overall contribution to the defense we all hope will be significant.

[Turbo44]

16 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

BTW, and for purposes of the discussion at hand, one of the ways in which Beane has been "original," is in getting a generational franchise QB and then doing next to nothing to build an effective OL in front of him both to protect him as well as to help him develop.  

 

Most GMs and all good GMS that have that kind of a QB realize the importance of protecting him and then do something significant about it besides a revolving door of journeymen OL-men, a 2nd-round pick, and a late 3rd-round pick in five drafts.   

 

So there's that originality as well.  

 

Just sayin'.  

 

 

Look at Burrows line until last year and Mahomes in his first 2-3 years, both lower end O-lines, bordering on horrible in CIN's case. Both of those teams have taking steps in the last year or two to bolster the lines as has Beane this year. For instance PFF:

2019 BUF 21st, KC 16th, CIN 30th

2020 BUF 10th, KC 11th, CIN 30th

2021  BUF 16th, KC 6th (they finally concentrated on it), CIN 30th

Edited July 30, 2023 by Turbo44

[Turbo44]

11 minutes ago, muppy said:

wearing pads and getting after it Ones on Ones  separates the men from the boys. The cream will rise to the top.

 

The  Bills did spend significant capital on signing a guy like Leonard Floyd to our DL.  He is a name I am curious about moving forward. And his overall contribution to the defense we all hope will be significant.

Yep, I'm guessing Beane is counting on a bolstered D-line (Floyd, Ford, healthy Von, healthy Rousseau) along with a healthy 2ndary (Poyer, Hyde, White) to make up for the MLB hole.

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I think if Kincaid matches the hype in the regular season, I expect Davis to have a killer year but not volume of receptions.

 

Im thinking 50 receptions but agree on the other numbers.  He’s a good deep threat.  I would say he’s one of the best post route deep threat.
 

I don’t buy his ankle as the reason he dropped balls.  I could agree it slowed him up where he was a step and didn’t get to the ball as quickly.  But not when the ball hits both hands. 

ankle and hands. Different issues. Route running and drops.

 Both were concerns last year.

 

[eball]

1 hour ago, fergie's ire said:

What?  You don't miss the days of "original" drafting like picking a run of the mill safety with the 10th  pick of the draft or moving into the first round to pick a DT who was the third best DL on his Maryland team?  Or what about having zero talent on the team and being in desperate need of constructing a legit NFL roster and so using your early 1st round pick to get a "waterbug" running back.  Ahhhh, yes.  Original drafting.  Those were the days.

Well done. For the record, I think @PBF81 and @Einstein are one and the same. 
 

[3rdand12]

17 minutes ago, muppy said:

wearing pads and getting after it Ones on Ones  separates the men from the boys. The cream will rise to the top.

 

The  Bills did spend significant capital on signing a guy like Leonard Floyd to our DL.  He is a name I am curious about moving forward. And his overall contribution to the defense we all hope will be significant.

He and Poona might well be difference makers.

We will be saying good bye to one of the draft picks i feel.

 Basham ?

[BigAl2526]

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Morse was the center, but to most people the problem with the exchange looked like it rested more with Josh.

I don't know how anyone can place blame based on the You Tube clip.  It is evident that Morse is the center on the play.  I spotted him after the play at the 13 second mark and got a better view at the 18 second mark, but whether the fault lies with Morse or with Allen, it's probably only those two who actually know, and those they admitted it to, of course.

[Buffalo Boy]

3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Nah. We’re yesterday’s news..

6pm tonight

[The Wiz]

 

 

[wppete]

Any word about rookie Alex Austin? Haven’t seen anything written about him. Would be huge if he impresses and makes this team. Would like to see him get a chance at Safety maybe a CB convert out of Oregon state to safety just like Poyer. He has the size and aggressiveness to go with athleticism. 

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, whorlnut said:

There were no bigger needs than offensive weapon and oline and Beane addressed both in the first two rounds. MLB was never a huge “need” for them and that showed during the draft. Just because some fans thought it was didn’t make it a reality. They never pulled the wool over anyones eyes when they kept saying they liked what they already had in house. 

 

In fairness........they kinda' had to take what they had and like it at MLB.    Drafting another off-ball LB in round 1 after Edmunds never played up to the great expectations would have been asinine.    And they'd just used a starting grade pick on the position(a 1 starter position) in the last draft.   They apparently wanted Lavonte David and the price was right but he didn't want to leave Tampa.    Beane has really got this team in a jam cap-wise.   I think if a Taylor Rapp level of player at MLB had been willing to come in to play for $1.7M then it would likely be that players job to lose.   

[Buffalo Boy]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

BTW, and for purposes of the discussion at hand, one of the ways in which Beane has been "original," is in getting a generational franchise QB and then doing next to nothing to build an effective OL in front of him both to protect him as well as to help him develop.  

 

Most GMs and all good GMS that have that kind of a QB realize the importance of protecting him and then do something significant about it besides a revolving door of journeymen OL-men, a 2nd-round pick, and a late 3rd-round pick in five drafts.   

 

So there's that originality as well.  

 

Just sayin'.  

 

 

Not disagreeing…..Hurney/ Gettlemen /Newton

1 hour ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Every year, there are players that look good before the pads come on, then disappear after the pads come on. Also, there are some players that look great in TC/Pre-season, but bomb out in the regular season. Curious to see who’s the real deal, and who are the pretenders.

Same thing every single year. Winning training camp is just the last step of winning the off season. Tuel 😞

51 minutes ago, Turbo44 said:

Look at Burrows line until last year and Mahomes in his first 2-3 years, both lower end O-lines, bordering on horrible in CIN's case. Both of those teams have taking steps in the last year or two to bolster the lines as has Beane this year. For instance PFF:

2019 BUF 21st, KC 16th, CIN 30th

2020 BUF 10th, KC 11th, CIN 30th

2021  BUF 16th, KC 6th (they finally concentrated on it), CIN 30th

This is year six and Josh can’t be the leading rusher again. 

[Jerry Jabber]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Boy said:

Not disagreeing…..Hurney/ Gettlemen /Newton

Same thing every single year. Winning training camp is just the last step of winning the off season. Tuel 😞

This is year six and Josh can’t be the leading rusher again. 

Trent Edwards, Nathan Peterman and Keith Ellison all come to mind of players that looked great in August, but disappeared in the regular season.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Jerry Jabber

[HappyDays]

 

[wppete]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

 

Love to hear that Cook is dominating out there. I think his rookie season was just a warm up. And love to see Poona and Settle in the middle making plays… we got some studs on that Dline.

[Special K]

28 minutes ago, Jerry Jabber said:

Nathan Peterson 

 

I don’t know who Nathan Peterson is, but I bet that even  he would be a better option at QB than Nathan Peterman!😀

[The Wiz]

 

It's finally here!