Training Camp 7/30 9:45am

[HappyDays]

 

[BuffaloBill]

6 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

 

 

This awesome — good for the Bills.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

We should get t-shirts made up and form a club.

It’s a clan.  I dub ye Soothsayer Who of Clan Kincaid.  

[Nephilim17]

Sounds like Dorsey has invested less time into his table-clearing practice and more into creative play-calling hours this off-season.

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

It’s a clan.  I dub ye Soothsayer Who of Clan Kincaid.  

Skol

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Lmao, go ahead and get excited, but I wouldn’t start bashing other posters for their takes because of 3 days of camp.

Glass houses…,

[boco357]

Has Nfl network camp special even showed the Bills today?

[whorlnut]

15 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Here’s my issue with this…

 

-We hear how we had to pay Oliver because we need a proven 3T in this defense.  
 

-We hear how we need pass rushers off the edge, because well - I agree - this is obvious. 
 

-We hear how important high level Safety play is for the defense. 
 

-We needed to invest in CB2 opposite Tre .. that was the prevailing worry pre-draft two years ago. 
 

-Now we hear how important MLB is to the defense…

 

Ok, we can’t have All-Pro’s at every position.   Not EVERY position is imperative to this defense.  
 

If so, why tf do we have a defensive minded HC in Sean McDermott?

 

When healthy, we trot out a starting 11 of:

 

Von - Daquan - Oliver - Rousseau

 

Milano - Johnson - ???

 

Tre - Elam/Jackson/Benford

 

Hyde - Poyer

 

With good depth at every position.  
 

I mean, cmon…. This defense better be a Top 5-6 unit based on talent alone. 

Agree. It boggles my mind that people think we need a first rounder at every defensive position. Our coach is defensive minded and we have enough to be elite already. Poyer, Hyde, and Milano can more than make up for a slight downgrade at mlb. Not to mention we get Tre back. The jack campbell train before the draft was nauseating. Yeah…let’s do that and keep giving Josh left overs. Great idea guys!👍

[NewEra]

55 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

I drafted Kincaid above Johnson while LA Chargers in Virgil's mock draft, so I sort of qualify.  

Good enough for me-  I dub ye

Quasi-Clairvoyant CNYfan

54 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

I claimed that Spector would be our Mike months ago and people questioned it. I’m not saying he’ll be there week 1 but by mid season I think he’s the guy. 
 

Clemson and preseason last year he was all around the ball all the time. Seems to always be in position. Not athletic but just a football player. It’s something McDermott appreciates 

9.13 RAS score suggest he is athletic 

[Westside]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

 

I think I got something in my eyes….

[HappyDays]

 

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

Sounds like Dorsey has invested less time into his table-clearing practice and more into creative play-calling hours this off-season.

 

He didn't need creativity to win that game, just better execution from his players.  Creativity is good though.

[HappyDays]

 

[FireChans]

24 minutes ago, NewEra said:

If this is your playground- you reek of insecurity. 

It’s not that serious bro, take a breath 

[The Wiz]

 

[PBF81]

13 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Here’s my issue with this…

 

-We hear how we had to pay Oliver because we need a proven 3T in this defense.  
 

-We hear how we need pass rushers off the edge, because well - I agree - this is obvious. 
 

-We hear how important high level Safety play is for the defense. 
 

-We needed to invest in CB2 opposite Tre .. that was the prevailing worry pre-draft two years ago. 
 

-Now we hear how important MLB is to the defense…

 

Ok, we can’t have All-Pro’s at every position.   Not EVERY position is imperative to this defense.  
 

If so, why tf do we have a defensive minded HC in Sean McDermott?

 

When healthy, we trot out a starting 11 of:

 

Von - Daquan - Oliver - Rousseau

 

Milano - Johnson - ???

 

Tre - Elam/Jackson/Benford

 

Hyde - Poyer

 

With good depth at every position.  
 

I mean, cmon…. This defense better be a Top 5-6 unit based on talent alone. 

 

I hear ya, and while it's definitely a good discussion, not sure there's a right or wrong here, but to me, if we go into the season with a player that's a 3 on a 10-scale at MLB, it's going to be problematic.  

 

I'm not sure this is the time of year to discuss Beane's team/roster-building, so no need to get into that, but if you recall, McD played with 3 traditional LBs until Lorax retired.  We had no one in the pipeline or on the roster that was a starting caliber LB otherwise, so we went to 2 LBs.  

 

It can be discussed, argued, etc., on the horse/cart aspect of it, but the reality is that we've at least had a MLB with the other LB being an OLB.  Now we have 2 OLBs, so this is unmistakeably uncharted territory for McD.  I see that being a whole lot different than what we had.  

 

We'll see, maybe it'll work out just fine, and I supposed there's the possibilty that Spector, Dodson, or Bernard will suffice, but if any of them ever turned into an even average starting MLB/ILB it should come as more of a surprise than an expectation.    All three were touted as reliable backups in draft profiles on nfl.com and a few other prominent draft sites.  They're all missing something traditionally associated with average or better starting MLB/ILBs.  

 

I think at times that we focus too much on depth over starting players in addressing team needs.  JMO  And putting together a great "fantasty" roster doesn't necessarily translate to a great actual roster.  We have tons of talent and have spent tons of money getting it, contrasted with making the most out of first-contract draftees, so from that perspective I completely agree with you.  

 

 

[NewEra]

37 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

Also Kincaid is going to be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer. Guaranteed.

 

Atta boy!!!  I concur and dub ye Diviner HappyDays

[Virgil]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

The only OT picked around that area was Anton Harrison at 27 (the next OT went early 3rd).  I'm not sure he's even starting.

Agreed.  Once the pick came, I was good with the choice based on who was available.  
 

Going into the draft, OT, OG, MLB were my top priorities

[HappyDays]

4 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

 

Every time I see throws like this I'm reminded that Allen did not know how to throw with touch as a rookie. It's a necessary skill that he picked up very quickly.

 

[Dunkirk Donski]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

It’s not that serious bro, take a breath 

Dude, this is your chance for a 3 page rebuttal…

[Royale with Cheese]

33 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Gabe Davis in his third season (injured):  48 catches, 836 yards, 7 TDs, 28 other 1st-Downs 

Stefon Diggs in his third season:  64 catches, 849 yards, 8 TDs, 34 other 1st-Downs  

 

FWIW  

 

 

Don’t think its worth much.

I still don’t expect Davis to be a volume guy.  He’s more the chunk guy.

[Mark Vader]

Any word on how Shane Ray is looking at camp?

[Dunkirk Donski]

13 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

Remember the other day when Allen was rusty and lost his touch.  That was cool 

Just now, Mark Vader said:

Any word on how Shane Ray is looking at camp?

Mean

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Wasn’t it Bates who virtually gave away 2 games last year with bad snaps? If I’m correct, that it was him @ Miami and Home to Minny, I don’t want him anywhere near Allen!

 

Morse played 100% of the snaps vs. Minn. so any problems there were between Morse and Allen (the EZ fumble was, IMO, more on Allen)

 

Morse missed three games last season - he did not play @Miami, @Detroit, or @Chicago.  Also missed 50% of the home Miami game.

[JerseyBills]

I just love we're focusing on easy yards, screens, lot of motion and misdirection.  I've been begging this O to implement this since 2019. 

Josh had the most big time throws according to pff by almost 30 throws compared to the next guy. This will only open up them plays more

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I know for sure he had one and I want to say the one in Miami was Van Roten, but I'm not 100%. 

 

Pretty sure that was early in the game, and was Bates snapping.

But, I recall some very scary snaps from Van Roten where found myself saying "it's a good thing our QB is 6'6" and has great hands"

[Motorin']

25 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

 

Motor had over 50 targets in the pass game last year. If Cook gets 50 + targets in the pass game I have a feeling it's going to be a lot more productive. 

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

Morse was the center, but to most people the problem with the exchange looked like it rested more with Josh.

I agree with this. Allen was way too tentative for the snap -like a Freshman taking a snap for the very 1st time.

[JESSEFEFFER]

2 hours ago, scuba guy said:

Holly Molly walked thru fire ouch.

 

Don't try that at home folks

Here's the story.

 

chautauqua-county-girl-risks-life-to-save-others-in-fatal-house-fire

[Chandler#81]

41 minutes ago, boco357 said:

Has Nfl network camp special even showed the Bills today?

Nah. We’re yesterday’s news..

[PBF81]

14 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Don’t think its worth much.

I still don’t expect Davis to be a volume guy.  He’s more the chunk guy.

 

I wouldn't disagree with that.  I didn't mean to insinuate that he's got the same skillset at Diggs, obviously he doesn't.  

 

He is one of Beane's better draft picks however.  He was the 17th WR taken in that draft class in 2020, yet, he's scored more TDs than all but Jefferson, more than 14 WRs drafted ahead of him, and has more yards than 8 WRs drafted ahead of him.  

 

Corroborating your statement, he strikes me as more of an Alvin Harper guy to compliment Irvin, rather than the top-dog.  IMO he has almost no chance of ever becoming any team's #1 WR, at least if that team's going to be any good.  

 

OTOH, I can defintely see him putting up 1,200 Yards and a dozen TDs on 65-70 receptions under the right circumstances, possibly a little bit more.  

 

 

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Motor had over 50 targets in the pass game last year. If Cook gets 50 + targets in the pass game I have a feeling it's going to be a lot more productive. 

Mmhmmm. Cook and Kincaid will be the playmakers we’ve been hoping for.  

8 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Nah. We’re yesterday’s news..

And we’re better off too

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

That's it right there, it's all gonna fall on Dorsey as to whether or not he's a more cunning OC than his counterparts will be at DC.  

 

If he's lacks originality, he'll be aiding them.  

 

Beane drafted Kincaid in a monkey-see-monkey-do attempt to replicate Kelce.   We haven't seen much originality in the team/roster-building strategies on this team.  If it works out, fantastic.  Right now Kincaid's playing the part and affirming the decision to draft him.  

 

But between an improved OL, the addition of Kincaid, better depth at WR, Knox too let's not forget, the potential is there to dominate the NFL this season.  

 

The problem with now is that it's camp, not real games.  Are the offensive players looking better because the defense isn't going to be so good?  Are both units playing excellently with the offense merely topping the defense, etc.  Who knows, we'll know more in 6 weeks.  

 

All we can do is hope for now, but Dorsey's got a big step up from his coaching last year to optimize the talent on his side of the field and be better as an OC than his counterparts at DC will be.  Whether he does it we'll know soon. 

 

It's totally reasonable to say that it's early days in camp yet, we haven't even put the pads on, so we won't really know what we've got until September.  But the crap about the "originality" in roster building and "monkey see monkey do" is hogwash and hassenpfeffer.

 

Why don't you go to a KC board and tell them John Dorsey drafted Kelce in a "monkey see monkey do" attempt to replicate the success the Pats were having with Gronkowski and Hernandez (still on the Pats team at the time of the 2013 draft)?  NWE was the team to beat in the AFC at that time and had just been to a Superbowl and a Conf championship with a heavy reliance on TE play,  Clearly Dorsey was just trying to copycat NWE, it had nothing to do with their draft grade on Kelce and the way the board fell or anything like that. 

 

That take is as shallow as a Missouri branch in August.  My dog can't even get her paws wet, poor girl.  Alert the media, 32 GMs study other teams success and consider what aspects of that team build they might want to adopt. 

 

The Bills knew they had a big need at receiver.  Beane has said they had a 1st round grade on at least one of the WR but he went above the price-point he wanted to use to trade up.  They liked Kincaid as a receiver, and when the option to draft him emerged they pounced. 

 

They weren't set on "Must.  Draft. Our. Own. Kelce"

 

 

 

 

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

I wouldn't disagree with that.  I didn't mean to insinuate that he's got the same skillset at Diggs, obviously he doesn't.  

 

He is one of Beane's better draft picks however.  He was the 17th WR taken in that draft class in 2020, yet, he's scored more TDs than all but Jefferson, more than 14 WRs drafted ahead of him, and has more yards than 8 WRs drafted ahead of him.  

 

Corroborating your statement, he strikes me as more of an Alvin Harper guy to compliment Irvin, rather than the top-dog.  IMO he has almost no chance of ever becoming any team's #1 WR, at least if that team's going to be any good.  

 

OTOH, I can defintely see him putting up 1,200 Yards and a dozen TDs on 65-70 receptions under the right circumstances, possibly a little bit more.  

 

 

Those are top10 numbers 

[Goin Breakdown]

3 hours ago, akcash said:

KIncaid looks like that that kid who is the best player in his friends group but when he plays against better competition doesn't match up. 

Then the ball is snapped.

Wait..what?

[PBF81]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Those are top10 numbers 

 

Yes

 

Thanks for pointing that out.   

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

45 minutes ago, akcash said:

 

 

Joe Marino had a great piece on Gabe Davis. Basically since college he hasn't statistically been targeted much on shorter routes. The thought is it's because hes bettery at separating and stacking down field with his build up speed as opposed to quick twitch on shorter routes. IMO with the addition of Kincaid it makes him the perfect complement boundry receiver to keep the safeties high. Might never been a volume reception receiver but can get him at the right price and can be the perfect #2 boundry reciever for this offense long term.

I think its a bad Narrative that a WR that is primarily used as a deep threat all season, cant be used more in short yardage situations.

It is not Gabes fault he is better at the deeper passes.. That being said, short passes unless you are fast or a great rout runner, will not lead to high passer ratings.

 

If its third and 4 and Gets a 5 yarder for a first down? how is that a bad thing? Gabe is being talked about more a short distance guy a little big more because NOW we have field stretchers... NOW we have 2 down the middle guys...

 

So you want to know what I heard Ken Dorsey say? Our offense and the playbook is evolving... (no he did not use those words) but when I hear Dorsey and others... Talk about Gabe getting more short yardage throws? Its because...

 

1. New playbook

2. New Talent on the receiving end

3. We got faster.

4. We have an offensive line that can last longer with those big come back routs... 

 

MAYBE, Gabe worked on his rout running and short yardage routs and looks better this year..  

Maybe Diggs saying Davis is looking like a true #1 WR is not just smoke... not just bringing up his buddy... Maybe there are people that know more then the fan, the podcasters and the PFF numbers. 

 

Just wanted to share.

[PBF81]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

But the crap about the "originality" in roster building and "monkey see monkey do" is hogwash and hassenpfeffer.

 

Where do you see originality in the building of our team/roster over the past 6 seasons, particularly via the drafts?  
 

Maybe I'm missing a lot.  I'm open to the possibility.  Convince me.  

 

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, PBF81 said:

 

Yes

 

Thanks for pointing that out.   

 

 

So how is he putting up those numbers but can't be a teams best wideout

[scuba guy]

26 minutes ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Here's the story.

 

chautauqua-county-girl-risks-life-to-save-others-in-fatal-house-fire

Thank you for sharing that story.