Training Camp 7/30 9:45am

[fergie's ire]

9 minutes ago, scuba guy said:

Man that play was just so funny 😁 Allen came off the sideline to run with poona and I think when they got into the endzone Allen ripped him a little 🤣 you could see them laphing.

 

How can't you love this team and the environment around it

Yeah, hearing this makes me very happy because I've always felt this team plays better when they are having fun and being loose.  Haven't seen as much of that end of last year and start of this year.  Hoping the fun bunch is back.

[Virgil]

37 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

There were no bigger needs than offensive weapon and oline and Beane addressed both in the first two rounds. MLB was never a huge “need” for them and that showed during the draft. Just because some fans thought it was didn’t make it a reality. They never pulled the wool over anyones eyes when they kept saying they liked what they already had in house. 

I respectfully disagree.  If there were a stud RT available that we could slot on day 1, I think that could be more important than an offensive weapon.  
 

Giving Josh a full extra second to process and throw makes everyone better.  Not to mention adding a run game. 
 

Could Brown pan out? Sure.  But look at what Hurts and the eagles did with that offensive line.  

[jkeerie]

22 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I know for sure he had one and I want to say the one in Miami was Van Roten, but I'm not 100%. 

I know for certain it wasn't Bates.  Wasn't it Greg Mancz?

[Royale with Cheese]

I’ve been hard on Gabe after last year.  Oh my God if he can pick it up this year.

[scuba guy]

Just now, jkeerie said:

I know for certain it wasn't Bates.  Wasn't it Greg Mancz?

Like I said I know the Bates went to the bench in the 3rd quarter because he was diagnosed with heat exhaustion 😩. And we were down to working wounded on the o line. It was van  or mancz I know that shaffield was playing with 1,arm

[jkeerie]

1 minute ago, scuba guy said:

Like I said I know the Bates went to the bench in the 3rd quarter because he was diagnosed with heat exhaustion 😩. And we were down to working wounded on the o line. It was van  or mancz I know that shaffield was playing with 1,arm

I just remember that right before the fumble, the color man on the broadcast was talking about "butt sweat" on the ball being a problem. 

 

[NewEra]

27 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

This

 

is awesome

[akcash]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

I’ve been hard on Gabe after last year.  Oh my God if he can pick it up this year.

 

 

Joe Marino had a great piece on Gabe Davis. Basically since college he hasn't statistically been targeted much on shorter routes. The thought is it's because hes bettery at separating and stacking down field with his build up speed as opposed to quick twitch on shorter routes. IMO with the addition of Kincaid it makes him the perfect complement boundry receiver to keep the safeties high. Might never been a volume reception receiver but can get him at the right price and can be the perfect #2 boundry reciever for this offense long term.

[The Wiz]

 

[Doc]

Just now, Virgil said:

I respectfully disagree.  If there were a stud RT available that we could slot on day 1, I think that could be more important than an offensive weapon.  
 

Giving Josh a full extra second to process and throw makes everyone better.  Not to mention adding a run game. 
 

Could Brown pan out? Sure.  But look at what Hurts and the eagles did with that offensive line.  

 

The only OT picked around that area was Anton Harrison at 27 (the next OT went early 3rd).  I'm not sure he's even starting.

[The Wiz]

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Davis just needs to get back to that 3rd or 4th option and he will be fine. The problem last year was his target workload was too high. He was more efficient when the slot had a healthy dose of targets, and we had guys like Sanders and Brown who could at least fill in on the outside for some snaps. 

 

A lot is riding on Kincaid being a high target receiver in the slot. Or Harty having a career year. 

 

The thing that sucks is that if Davis does go back to having an efficient year as our #2 starting outside receiver and 3rd or 4th in targets he will likely attract bidders in FA making him too expensive for the Bills to keep. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Sammy Watkins' Rib

[The Wiz]

 

[Motorin']

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I’ve been hard on Gabe after last year.  Oh my God if he can pick it up this year.

 

He needs to get his catch percentage up in the high 50's / low 60's. 

 

He's a deep threat, his catch percentage is always going to lower that underneath guys like JuJu and Jakobi Meyers. 

 

DK Metcalf, who yes is bigger, stronger and faster has alternated between high 50's and low 60's over the last 4 years.

 

Gabe dropped from a mid-50's guy to a 50% catch guy last year while dealing with a lot of #1 CB's in coverage while teams doubled Diggs with a safety and the #2 cb.

 

I'm not sold on the idea that performance levels are set in stone by some innate qualities.

 

This is a big year for him, and he needs to step up his game and catch more of his targets. 

 

We shall see if it happens. 

 

 

[CNYfan]

32 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

We should get t-shirts made up and form a club.

I drafted Kincaid above Johnson while LA Chargers in Virgil's mock draft, so I sort of qualify.  

Edited July 30, 2023 by CNYfan
No longer San Diego

[gonzo1105]

25 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

I don't really bet. As an academic and a poet, I don't have cash to play with. But if I did, I think I'd put some down on Spector as an interesting speculation at MLB.

I claimed that Spector would be our Mike months ago and people questioned it. I’m not saying he’ll be there week 1 but by mid season I think he’s the guy. 
 

Clemson and preseason last year he was all around the ball all the time. Seems to always be in position. Not athletic but just a football player. It’s something McDermott appreciates 

[Breakout Squad]

31 minutes ago, scuba guy said:

Did you not read the article about Allen the kid walked thru fire to save,his bother 60% burns

I did. Just seemed an odd way of wording. 

[Dr. Who]

8 minutes ago, CNYfan said:

I drafted Kincaid above Johnson while LA Chargers in Virgil's mock draft, so I sort of qualify.  

You're in.

[JaCrispy]

46 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

Ha! Of course!

 

Josh will stop at nothing to win- even when he’s not in the game! 🤣🤣🤣

[Chandler#81]

48 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Morse played every snap of the Vikings game. 

I’m fairly certain it wasn’t Morse who fumbled at the goaline, giving Vikings a TD.

[78thealltimegreat]

14 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Davis just needs to get back to that 3rd or 4th option and he will be fine. The problem last year was his target workload was too high. He was more efficient when the slot had a healthy dose of targets, and we had guys like Sanders and Brown who could at least fill in on the outside for some snaps. 

 

A lot is riding on Kincaid being a high target receiver in the slot. Or Harty having a career year. 

 

The thing that sucks is that if Davis does go back to having an efficient year as our #2 starting outside receiver and 3rd or 4th in targets he will likely attract bidders in FA making him too expensive for the Bills to keep. 

That’s ok next years receivers class is one of the best in recent memory…so if Gabe has a great year you shake his hand and say good luck and thanks.  

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

I’m fairly certain it wasn’t Morse who fumbled at the goaline, giving Vikings a TD.

 

It wasn't as Morse was the center.  And Josh fumbled that one.

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

I didn’t want them to draft Kindcaid pre draft, because I felt like we had bigger needs.  Now that we have him, I’m hoping Dorsey knows what to do with him.   

 

That's it right there, it's all gonna fall on Dorsey as to whether or not he's a more cunning OC than his counterparts will be at DC.  

 

If he's lacks originality, he'll be aiding them.  

 

Beane drafted Kincaid in a monkey-see-monkey-do attempt to replicate Kelce.   We haven't seen much originality in the team/roster-building strategies on this team.  If it works out, fantastic.  Right now Kincaid's playing the part and affirming the decision to draft him.  

 

But between an improved OL, the addition of Kincaid, better depth at WR, Knox too let's not forget, the potential is there to dominate the NFL this season.  

 

The problem with now is that it's camp, not real games.  Are the offensive players looking better because the defense isn't going to be so good?  Are both units playing excellently with the offense merely topping the defense, etc.  Who knows, we'll know more in 6 weeks.  

 

All we can do is hope for now, but Dorsey's got a big step up from his coaching last year to optimize the talent on his side of the field and be better as an OC than his counterparts at DC will be.  Whether he does it we'll know soon.  

 

 

[akcash]

Ha I just heard Josh was teaching Peter KIng a handshake. Gonna have that buttoned up this year sounds like.

[The Wiz]

This is just awesome.

 

 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

There were no bigger needs than offensive weapon and oline and Beane addressed both in the first two rounds. MLB was never a huge “need” for them and that showed during the draft. Just because some fans thought it was didn’t make it a reality. They never pulled the wool over anyones eyes when they kept saying they liked what they already had in house. 

 

We'll see how big of a need MLB was soon.  Without a significant presence at MLB opposing OC's will definitely exploit that to one extent or another.  

 

Having an oversized safety at the position, or an otherwise depth caliber player starting there can easily be problematic.  I'm not sure why anyone would view that otherwise.  

 

MLB is the closest thing that the D has to a QB in that regard in terms of defensive cohesiveness.  

 

 

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Lmao, go ahead and get excited, but I wouldn’t start bashing other posters for their takes because of 3 days of camp.

 

The one take I will absolutely bash right now is from the people that complained we drafted a TE with Knox already on a long term deal. Like some of us were saying you can't think of Kincaid as a traditional tight end and he will barely impact Knox's role, if at all. It remains to be seen how well Kincaid does in real games but from training camp reports it is obvious that he and Knox both have a defined role in this offense.

 

Also Kincaid is going to be a 1st ballot Hall of Famer. Guaranteed.

 

[Starr Almighty]

15 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

I’m fairly certain it wasn’t Morse who fumbled at the goaline, giving Vikings a TD.

 

It's was 100% Morse

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

 

1 day is a chance. 2 days is a trend. 3 days in a row is for real. 

 

But then Cover1 also says:

 

[PBF81]

1 hour ago, Herb Nightly said:

So far the OLine is being ranked about 21. When the season starts it would nice to see them at least mid-pack,15 or 16.

 

With a few favorable shakes and bounces I can see our OL performing into top-10 status.  

 

We shall see.  It's all talk until it isn't.  

 

 

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, Starr Almighty said:

 

It's was 100% Morse

 

Morse was the center, but to most people the problem with the exchange looked like it rested more with Josh.

[Starr Almighty]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

Morse was the center, but to most people the problem with the exchange looked like it rested more with Josh.

I'm not arguing that point. People weren't sure who was under center. I was just verifying 

[MasterStrategist]

6 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

But then Cover1 also says:

 

Usually they start practice with a "half speed" team offense vs defense.  Scripted plays/2 min drill.  Seems they had Torrence starting for that segment.

 

Then individual drills, then team session again at full speed (seems Bates started then).

 

Just to help explain, otherwise it would seem Cover1 was contradicting themselves

[PBF81]

48 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I’ve been hard on Gabe after last year.  Oh my God if he can pick it up this year.

 

Gabe Davis in his third season (injured):  48 catches, 836 yards, 7 TDs, 28 other 1st-Downs 

Stefon Diggs in his third season:  64 catches, 849 yards, 8 TDs, 34 other 1st-Downs  

 

FWIW  

 

 

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

We'll see how big of a need MLB was soon.  Without a significant presence at MLB opposing OC's will definitely exploit that to one extent or another.  

 

Having an oversized safety at the position, or an otherwise depth caliber player starting there can easily be problematic.  I'm not sure why anyone would view that otherwise.  

 

MLB is the closest thing that the D has to a QB in that regard in terms of defensive cohesiveness.  

 

 

Here’s my issue with this…

 

-We hear how we had to pay Oliver because we need a proven 3T in this defense.  
 

-We hear how we need pass rushers off the edge, because well - I agree - this is obvious. 
 

-We hear how important high level Safety play is for the defense. 
 

-We needed to invest in CB2 opposite Tre .. that was the prevailing worry pre-draft two years ago. 
 

-Now we hear how important MLB is to the defense…

 

Ok, we can’t have All-Pro’s at every position.   Not EVERY position is imperative to this defense.  
 

If so, why tf do we have a defensive minded HC in Sean McDermott?

 

When healthy, we trot out a starting 11 of:

 

Von - Daquan - Oliver - Rousseau

 

Milano - Johnson - ???

 

Tre - Elam/Jackson/Benford

 

Hyde - Poyer

 

With good depth at every position.  
 

I mean, cmon…. This defense better be a Top 5-6 unit based on talent alone. 

[The Wiz]

15 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

This is just awesome.

 

 

 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Then why the ***** are you quoting me and responding to my post?

You are wrong. TBD is my playground.

If this is your playground- you reek of insecurity. 

[HappyDays]

Some observations from Matt Parrino and Ryan Talbot:

 

Quote

Matt here. Day 4 observations:

Kaiir Elam got a ton of work as CB2 with 1st team. I thought he competed well at times but also had moments where he was out of position. On one play he was bailed out by high pass from Josh Allen to Dalton Kincaid. If it was on target he may have given up TD.

Jordan Poyer had 2nd INT of camp. Stefon Diggs was the target and Tre White had excellent coverage on 14. It was a red zone period so the windows were tight. Poyer read Allen's eyes and took it back to the house. 

The Bills almost closed practice with a great 2min drive when Allen found Gabe Davis for a long TD. But his foot looked out of bounds.

 

Quote

Today was a huge day for the interior d-line. I thought Poona Ford & Tim Settle were 2 of best players on the field. 

Ford was constantly applying pressure and had perhaps the play of the day. Matt Barkley was looking to throw it short and Ford read it the whole time. He stepped in front, intercepted the pass, and then ran it all the way back for a TD.

Settle has been consistent though start of camp. He had pass breakup at the line of scrimmage against Kyle Allen and one sack on the day. If I could go back a week and make Settle a player to watch for camp I would. This may be strongest position group on the team (DT).

 

Quote

Bills Mafia, it's Ryan. 

 

Some observations from today.

 

Kim Pegula made her first appearance at Bills training camp today. Sean McDermott stopped by their vehicle pre-practice.

 

New WR Andy Isabella did not do any team drills. He did some work with KR/PR along with Harty, Shakir and Evans. Harty had one muffed punt.

 

Tre White and Stefon Diggs had some battles in 1-on-1s. Diggs went 3-0 but White had excellent coverage.

 

Dalton Kincaid continues to impress. After one catch today, TEs coach Rob Boras tracked him down to congratulate him. Allen and Kincaid have had instant chemistry. (1/2)

 

Quote

KeeSean Johnson almost had a TD catch over Dean Marlowe but Johnson couldn't complete the catch through the ground. Would have been a big play for a WR with the team looking at outside players.

 

Practice ended with an Allen to Davis pass that was treated as a TD, but Davis' second foot landed out of bounds. Nonetheless, Davis has been solid throughout the first 4 practices and looks to be in line for a big season.

 

James Cook had a terrific practice both on the ground and as a receiver. He hauled in a TD with Micah Hyde in coverage. Cook looked the part of RB1 today and showed how he can cause fits for defenses. (2/2)

 

[Nephilim17]

1 hour ago, Virgil said:

I respectfully disagree.  If there were a stud RT available that we could slot on day 1, I think that could be more important than an offensive weapon.  
 

Giving Josh a full extra second to process and throw makes everyone better.  Not to mention adding a run game. 
 

Could Brown pan out? Sure.  But look at what Hurts and the eagles did with that offensive line.  

I respectfully disagree with your respectful disagreement. No RT can match the output Kincaid will give us. Stud LT, maybe, but not RT.

Kincaid could be the best drafted weapon in decades (not including Allen).

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, gonzo1105 said:

I want in on the pre Kincaid parade as well

I dub ye Seer Gonzo of Clan Kincaid