RB$ circling the wagons for fellow RBs

[Big Blitz]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

True - glad someone saying the position is vital bc it is (see Bills Red Zone issues)

 

[maddenboy]

but . . . you chose to play the position.

 

you chose to pursue something where, if you are excellent, you make about 1/4 of what an excellent QB makes.

 

And where is the extra money supposed to come from, to pay a running back?

 

-----

 

(I'm not one, but) its kinda like a foot doctor complaining that he isnt paid like a brain surgeon.  I mean, they ARE both doctors, right? 

 

if you wanna be paid like a brain surgeon, you shoulda been one.  Or, if you wanna be paid like the rest of us, I hear UPS is hiring.

[BillsFanForever19]

2 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

but . . . you chose to play the position.

 

you chose to pursue something where, if you are excellent, you make about 1/4 of what an excellent QB makes.

 

And where is the extra money supposed to come from, to pay a running back?

 

-----

 

(I'm not one, but) its kinda like a foot doctor complaining that he isnt paid like a brain surgeon.  I mean, they ARE both doctors, right? 

 

if you wanna be paid like a brain surgeon, you shoulda been one.  Or, if you wanna be paid like the rest of us, I hear UPS is hiring.

 

Not really a fair comparison. You make it sound like any star RB could have been a star QB if they chose. Totally different skill sets. 

[maddenboy]

no.  I make it sound like "you got what you got."

 

Its not his fault that he isnt 6 foot 10 so he can play in the NBA.   But as he looked around, he decided "you know what, my best bet to make millions is to play football.  Coaches told me to be a running back.  Even teenagers know running backs dont get paid like WRs or DBs or even TEs.  So i had a decision to make.  And i made it."

[Doc Brown]

34 minutes ago, maddenboy said:

but . . . you chose to play the position.

 

you chose to pursue something where, if you are excellent, you make about 1/4 of what an excellent QB makes.

 

And where is the extra money supposed to come from, to pay a running back?

 

-----

 

(I'm not one, but) its kinda like a foot doctor complaining that he isnt paid like a brain surgeon.  I mean, they ARE both doctors, right? 

 

if you wanna be paid like a brain surgeon, you shoulda been one.  Or, if you wanna be paid like the rest of us, I hear UPS is hiring.

To be fair we're only four years away from Zeke getting a 6 year 90 million dollar contract with 50 million guaranteed.  The running backs complaining now didn't know how quickly the position would become devalued growing up.

[Virgil]

If so many backs didn’t fall of a cliff around 27, this wouldn’t be an issue.  Most of these guys are up for a contract around 26.  
 

Would you pay someone for 5 years knowing you might only get 2-3 good years out of them?  

Why do they burn out?  Age and playing in the NFL.  So I do feel for them, because it’s league who makes them break down in their late 20’s

 

To me, the fix would be, all Rookie RBs get 3 year rookie deals, regardless of when drafted.  

[QCity]

I know the RB's are mad, but SharpFootball and Matt Miller are completely correct (I've been saying it for years too, Matt). After 5+ years in the NFL RB's start breaking down and can't stay on the field, and when you pay an aging star RB top dollar, you typically can't afford to spend resources (draft picks or money) on quality backups at the position. 

 

It's the unfortunate reality of today's game.

 

It's a much shrewder move to go bargain shopping for 2-3 cheap upper-tier RB's and invest that money saved into some road-grading offensive linemen. Now you have redundancy in case an RB goes down and an improved OL that can not only open holes but protect your QB.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Where are the protests about how punters or kickers or long snappers don’t get paid either? 
 

it’s about market value of the position.
 

This isn’t a RB league anymore. It’s a passing league. It’s also why QB, WR, and TE salaries have shot way up. 

[Simon]

God has blessed you with a body and skillset that enables you to become a multimillionaire just for playing a game and then retiring in your thirties, free and wealthy for the rest of your life.

But that's still not enough and the world owes you more.

Go hump some shingles, you spoiled rotten little brats.

[Doc Brown]

25 minutes ago, Virgil said:

If so many backs didn’t fall of a cliff around 27, this wouldn’t be an issue.  Most of these guys are up for a contract around 26.  
 

Would you pay someone for 5 years knowing you might only get 2-3 good years out of them?  

Why do they burn out?  Age and playing in the NFL.  So I do feel for them, because it’s league who makes them break down in their late 20’s

 

To me, the fix would be, all Rookie RBs get 3 year rookie deals, regardless of when drafted.  

Smart teams would still just cycle through RB's on a three year cost controlled rookie deal and not re-sign them.  Getting rid of the rookie wage minimum scale for RB's or reducing eligibility requirements to enter the NFL draft would help somewhat.  However, then players at other positions would complain.  I don't see an easy fix.

[MJS]

The issue isn't so much that RB's aren't valuable to an offense. They are. It's just that it is fairly easy to find a good RB who can produce for you. If RB's were more scarce, they would be in higher demand and make more money.

[JoPoy88]

The star RBs are never going to get teams to budge on handing out bigger money to veteran backs who are 26-27 years old. The positional value and average career length just isn’t there

 

What would be feasible and fairer to these guys is altering the rookie contract structure for RBs and set their max term lower than other positions. 2 or 3 year rookie terms would allow RBs to get to FA sooner with more of their future value intact. The truly great ones would get more and better offers. All the rest would get what they get or fall by the wayside. 

[BillsfaninSB]

I do sympathize with the RB.  They heavily sacrifice themselves.  Not just getting tackled but also blocking guys who could be 100 lbs larger than them routinely. 

 

I think the first franchise tag should be two years, not one, at the next increment of player.  Usually TE.  This year it would be $11.3M.  RBs would get +$22M.  They would be thrown on scrap heap after that but at least they would get a great nest egg for the rest of their life.   Do this for all RBs regardless of when drafted.  Also, give them the option of refusing the tag so they can test the open market and not be forced to hold out. 

[BullBuchanan]

I hope the NFLPA does something to address this at the next collective bargaining session. Perhaps giving RBs a one-way contract void after their 2nd year for a first round pick or their rookie year for a 2nd round+ would be a way to force teams to compensate them fairly. Alternatively, they could force a RB specific rookie wage scale. We all know that you don't want to pay an aging back, but you should have to pay a young one. It's become pretty clear RBs got hosed the most by the rookie wage scale.

They contribute massively to the offensive production of teams but get a pittance in compensation compared to their counterparts.

[Don Otreply]

When every one of them is a top three percent or better wage earner annually in America, why is anyone feeling sorry for them, when the vast majority of Americans make far less annually, and ya know what, they would give their eye teeth for just one years worth of a RBs wages…, folks perspective is really out of wack on these guys incomes, they all make large money compared to the ninety fifth percentile and lower of all wage earners in America and world wide, F ing cry babies is what they are, don’t piss your money away and get a god da-n job when your time in football is over, it ain’t rocket science. 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Don Otreply

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

I hope the NFLPA does something to address this at the next collective bargaining session. Perhaps giving RBs a one-way contract void after their 2nd year for a first round pick or their rookie year for a 2nd round+ would be a way to force teams to compensate them fairly. Alternatively, they could force a RB specific rookie wage scale. We all know that you don't want to pay an aging back, but you should have to pay a young one. It's become pretty clear RBs got hosed the most by the rookie wage scale.

They contribute massively to the offensive production of teams but get a pittance in compensation compared to their counterparts.

It’s not just about aging RB’s, it’s about the quantity of RB’s. RB is the easiest position to find a replacement. I actually don’t know what the solution would be.

 

For regular people it works the same way. You get paid based on how many people can do your job equally as well. Cashiers at Walmart get paid a low wage because there are millions of people that can do the job.

 

I don’t know if anything can help RB’s because the NFL is all about passing now. If they had shorter deals I think some RBs would get paid but the majority of them still would be replaced with cheaper options.

 

I think teams will just avoid drafting RBs all together if they become too expensive. You don’t win Championships when your RB is the the focus of the offense. RBs will end up like FB’s soon enough. 
 

 

[Thrivefourfive]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

To be fair we're only four years away from Zeke getting a 6 year 90 million dollar contract with 50 million guaranteed.  The running backs complaining now didn't know how quickly the position would become devalued growing up.

All it took was one loose, far-sighted owner to drop the ball and pay one. What ended up happening wasn’t good. Elliott declined, as excepted, and is living out a pretty typical RB league career as one of the best of the decade. He’s done — but probably ended up getting paid for his three excellent years, two good ones, and some others. However, nobody wants to see their player get paid and then rapidly decline. Just leaves a bad taste. So all the RBs wanting their bag can thank Elliott for showing GMs and owners that it’s a bad decision for the team. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

34 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

All it took was one loose, far-sighted owner to drop the ball and pay one. What ended up happening wasn’t good. Elliott declined, as excepted, and is living out a pretty typical RB league career as one of the best of the decade. He’s done — but probably ended up getting paid for his three excellent years, two good ones, and some others. However, nobody wants to see their player get paid and then rapidly decline. Just leaves a bad taste. So all the RBs wanting their bag can thank Elliott for showing GMs and owners that it’s a bad decision for the team. 

Zeke was only 23-24 years old when he signed that deal.

 

As I said earlier some RBs will get a big deal if they had shorter rookie contracts, probably less than 5, but teams will still be able to find cheaper options. Tony Pollard has been the better option for the Cowboys the last couple years and he was a much cheaper option.

 

Problem for Pollard is now he’s getting too expensive and will be replaced soon.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[QCity]

25 minutes ago, Thrivefourfive said:

All it took was one loose, far-sighted owner to drop the ball and pay one. What ended up happening wasn’t good. Elliott declined, as excepted, and is living out a pretty typical RB league career as one of the best of the decade. He’s done — but probably ended up getting paid for his three excellent years, two good ones, and some others. However, nobody wants to see their player get paid and then rapidly decline. Just leaves a bad taste. So all the RBs wanting their bag can thank Elliott for showing GMs and owners that it’s a bad decision for the team. 

 

It was a more than just Elliott. Todd Gurley's 4yr/$60M deal blew up in their faces. Kamara's 4TD season last year certainly isn't why they gave him 5yr/$75M. Listening to Jets fans crow about getting Le'Veon Bell for $50M and watching him instantly crash and burn was funny. Carolina gave CMC $65M and he wound up playing like 2 games that year. I believe next year he missed half the season and ultimately they cut bait. There's more I'm missing I'm sure.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

16 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

It was a more than just Elliott. Todd Gurley's 4yr/$60M deal blew up in their faces. Kamara's 4TD season last year certainly isn't why they gave him 5yr/$75M. Listening to Jets fans crow about getting Le'Veon Bell for $50M and watching him instantly crash and burn was funny. Carolina gave CMC $65M and he wound up playing like 2 games that year. I believe next year he missed half the season and ultimately they cut bait. There's more I'm missing I'm sure.

Another one. Gurley only 23 years old when he got paid. So it’s not about age. It’s about the position. 
 

The Rams are a great example. They have struggled to replace Gurley but they still won a Super Bowl with his replacements. They had a RB by committee that year.

Edited July 18, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Beast]

You want to lower the years until a RB becomes an UFA, you have to do it for every position. I don’t want to see that.

[Matt_In_NH]

They can blame data/facts not twitterers

[Gugny]

Boo.  Hoo. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

21 minutes ago, Beast said:

You want to lower the years until a RB becomes an UFA, you have to do it for every position. I don’t want to see that.

I don’t think it’ll happen because it’ll only hurt veteran players, which is why they changed rookie contracts in the first place.

 

There is no fix. QBs and WRs have taken the RBs money. This isn’t going to change.

 

[maddenboy]

5 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

To be fair we're only four years away from Zeke getting a 6 year 90 million dollar contract with 50 million guaranteed.  The running backs complaining now didn't know how quickly the position would become devalued growing up.

. . . because otherwise, if they did know, then they woulda done . . . what instead?   That's my whole point.

 

I think the only thing they might have done differently is to manage their own money expectations better.   Because had they decided to make more "business decisions" in light of reduced pay, like stepping out of bounds too early, they woulda been replaced long before today.  It takes what it takes to earn that NFL RB money.

 

You dont get to be an excellent NFL RB if you didnt have potential for it.   So I dont think these RBs would have or could have chosen baseball or track or wrestling or whatever else.  And even if they could have, they decided on NFL RB. 

 

And unfortunately for them, NFL RB is the only position (maybe longsnapper also) where your boss can say "if you dont like it, then quit" and be 100 percent not bluffing.  This is the biggest change resulting from the de-emphasis on the RB himself, and on the use of RBs overall.

 

----

 

Conversely, the changes in the game have probably way increased pay for Nickel CBs.   They are basically starters, now.  At a high value position.

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by maddenboy

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

You want to lower the years until a RB becomes an UFA, you have to do it for every position. I don’t want to see that.

I agree - I suggested it even though it’s a longshot. But it’s something of a solution for these handful of elite backs to consider advocating for instead of just whining and getting into twitter scraps.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

Boo.  Hoo. 

Who? 🤔
😁

Edited July 18, 2023 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[thenorthremembers]

They get paid just fine.   There is always the other option, come join me in the 9-5 game.   Comes with student loan debt (my college degree wasn't free), 2 Chrysler Mini Vans, a decent house in Orleans County NY.   It's not a mansion in South Florida or California  but I'm still  living the dream baby.

 

All jobs get paid according to what the owner of the business is willing to pay.  If you don't like it find a new job.

 

 Please stand back while I play the world's smallest fiddle for these 20 and 30 something millionaires.   They have all the right in the world to protest and complain about it, they also have all the right in the world to be roasted for how tone deaf they come across.

Edited July 18, 2023 by thenorthremembers

[Lost]

Its a weird dynamic going on in the NFL right now.   I've felt like receivers have been getting overpaid in recent years and RBs underpaid.   

 

Statistically, Saquan Barkley had more yards from scrimmage as Stephon Diggs and just as many TDs.  RBs also take a far bigger beating earning those yards and have a lot of added blocking responsibilities the WR doesn't.  Despite this, the new WR contracts going around are like 7 million more per year more than top tier RBs.

[teef]

if bills mafia was ever going to donate to a cause...this is it.

[BuffaloBill]

6 minutes ago, teef said:

if bills mafia was ever going to donate to a cause...this is it.

 

That’s funny ….. but … also warped ….

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

10 minutes ago, Lost said:

Its a weird dynamic going on in the NFL right now.   I've felt like receivers have been getting overpaid in recent years and RBs underpaid.   

 

Statistically, Saquan Barkley had more yards from scrimmage as Stephon Diggs and just as many TDs.  RBs also take a far bigger beating earning those yards and have a lot of added blocking responsibilities the WR doesn't.  Despite this, the new WR contracts going around are like 7 million more per year more than top tier RBs.

3 WR sets is base offense in todays league.

[JoPoy88]

13 minutes ago, Lost said:

Its a weird dynamic going on in the NFL right now.   I've felt like receivers have been getting overpaid in recent years and RBs underpaid.   

 

Statistically, Saquan Barkley had more yards from scrimmage as Stephon Diggs and just as many TDs.  RBs also take a far bigger beating earning those yards and have a lot of added blocking responsibilities the WR doesn't.  Despite this, the new WR contracts going around are like 7 million more per year more than top tier RBs.

Because teams know the league and its rules favor the passing game, and the fact that passing is simply more efficient than running.

[HOUSE]

Buy a cheaper Lamborghini 

[KDIGGZ]

Boo hoo, millionaires mad they are only making $10 mil per year instead of $15 mil. What a bunch of babies! If you don't like it get a new job, it's a free country. Oh wait, you can't make that much money in a "normal job"? I guess you have it pretty good then!

 

Seriously this is absolutely embarrassing and more people need to call out this type of behavior. You get paid what your value is no matter what the job is. There's literally thousands of people that would be willing to take their spot if they don't like it. How many good college RB's never even get a shot at the NFL? We see it every preseason. Some no name player has an amazing few games then we never hear from them again. I'm sure they would be happy making 1/10th what these guys are complaining about. RB's are a dime a dozen. Chiefs just won the Super Bowl with a 7th rounder. It's not a position of value so you get paid what the market is.

[colin]

rbs get smashed to bits, but honestly they should all be spending a lot more time learning how to be short area WRs, growing up too.

 

if RBs were like marshall faulk and therman thomas now, guys who can run but also block and be slot wrs and hbacks, they'd be getting a lot more cash and a lot more glory.

 

the fact that a good but not all pro guard in the nfl gets 10mm, and a top flight tackle gets 20, shows you that the front offices think the blocking is the better part of the run game, and now the passing game is by far the better part of the offense.

[Lost]

34 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

Because teams know the league and its rules favor the passing game, and the fact that passing is simply more efficient than running.

 

Devin Singletary had twice as many yards from scrimmage last year as Dawson Knox and nearly as many passing targets.   Dawson Knox was awarded a 4 year 52 million contract extension.   Singletary was released and now playing under a 1 year deal for under 3 million.   Kinda crazy.

[corta765]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

Boo.  Hoo. 

You tell em Mr Met!

2 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

Devin Singletary had twice as many yards from scrimmage last year as Dawson Knox and nearly as many passing targets.   Dawson Knox was awarded a 4 year 52 million contract extension.   Singletary was released and now playing under a 1 year deal for under 3 million.   Kinda crazy.

 

Too many talented RBs now were he is replaceable. They literally got rid of Singletary and between Cooks being cheaper/possibly more talented and Harris/Murray taking vet minimum contracts BUF backfield is potentially better. The position just has too much talent these days so cheap replacements are everywhere.

Ralph wouldn't know what to do with himself these days lol

[mjt328]

A player's "value" is only what NFL teams are willing to pay.

And for many legitimate reasons, teams are realizing it's not worth paying Running Backs big contracts.

 

Considering the wear/tear and small shelf-life, I agree that RBs get a raw deal compared to most other NFL positions.  But then again, the fact that so many serviceable guys can be found out of college... that suggests it's one of the easiest positions to play in the league.  I know that even back in high school, there were tons of guys who were pretty good at playing RB.  Much tougher to find a guy who could throw or run routes and catch.  When it comes to linemen, the physical size disqualifies the majority of human beings.

 

And at the end of the day, even these devalued RBs are making 100x more than average Americans.  Nothing is stopping them from playing 3-5 years and then retiring if they can't get the contract they want.  Someone will surely step up and take that job.

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Smart teams would still just cycle through RB's on a three year cost controlled rookie deal and not re-sign them.  Getting rid of the rookie wage minimum scale for RB's or reducing eligibility requirements to enter the NFL draft would help somewhat.  However, then players at other positions would complain.  I don't see an easy fix.

but then you’ll also have teams with quarterbacks on rookie deals that will say OK we will take your 24 year old star running back and pay them to a new three-year deal.