TNF- Jaguars @ Jets

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 minute ago, Nelius said:

A Super Bowl? C'mon man. Both Moore and Mims wanted off the team just less than 2 months ago. They've got a trio of flashy young players in Gardner, Wilson, and Hall that I think injects a lot more hype than is legitimate. Their defense is not the brick wall that Saleh fanboys want it to be and they're 7-8 for more reasons than their extremely sub-par QB play. Also, it's not like a franchise QB just inevitably drifts toward you. As if they're just guaranteed one in the next couple of years while they have their current roster. Their increasingly long list of QB misses is part of the reason why they're still a mess. Why the confidence that they're going to suddenly get it right any time soon?

 

 If Josh is on that team Moore and Mims would've never wanted out in the 1st place.

 

Apparently you haven't watched Wilson and Allen play because if you did you would know that switch would swing several games in their favor. I'll put it this way, if Wilson was our QB no way in hell are we even 7-8 this year, probably more like 4-10 or 5-9. They lost by 5 & 7 to the Pats, 5 to the Vikings, 8 to the Bills and 3 to the Lions. At the very least those 5 games are all wins with Allen. Right there makes them 12-3 before we even start talking about the other 3 losses. Which makes them Super Bowl contenders which was the point I was making.

 

 As far as a franchise QB floating their way and all that, I have no idea why you are talking about that, I wasn't talking about that, it wasn't my point. You were calling them a mess and saying the wr room isn't good. With Wilson at QB?? Hell no, no wr room would be good with him he's one of, if not, the worst starting QB in the league. That wr room would be good with a top 10 QB under center, Wilson has a ton of potential. I disagree that they're a mess, they just have a realky bad QB and they're tired of it knowing they have a good enough team elsewhere to hang with anyone. In reality they're 1 piece away from contending, admittedly the hardest piece to obtain, but still just one piece.

 

 

 

[Nelius]

1 minute ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 If Josh is on that team Moore and Mims would've never wanted out in the 1st place.

 

Apparently you haven't watched Wilson and Allen play because if you did you would know that switch would swing several games in their favor. I'll put it this way, if Wilson was our QB no way in hell are we even 7-8 this year, probably more like 4-10 or 5-9. They lost by 5 & 7 to the Pats, 5 to the Vikings, 8 to the Bills and 3 to the Lions. At the very least those 5 games are all wins with Allen. Right there makes them 12-3 before we even start talking about the other 3 losses. Which makes them Super Bowl contenders which was the point I was making.

 

 As far as a franchise QB floating their way and all that, I have no idea why you are talking about that, I wasn't talking about that, it wasn't my point. You were calling them a mess and saying the wr room isn't good. With Wilson at QB?? Hell no, no wr room would be good with him he's one of, if not, the worst starting QB in the league. That wr room would be good with a top 10 QB under center, Wilson has a ton of potential. I disagree that they're a mess, they just have a realky bad QB and they're tired of it knowing they have a good enough team elsewhere to hang with anyone. In reality they're 1 piece away from contending, admittedly the hardest piece to obtain, but still just one piece.

 

 

 

The franchise QB failures mean there's potentially a systemic problem with scouting or heck and/or from the top down. You're the one acting like they're just going to conveniently pick up Josh Allen Jr. in the next year or two, with their current roster intact. That's the ultimate hurdle, franchise QBs aren't guaranteed. They always have a really bad QB. But I also disagree with pretty much everything else you've said. 

[JGMcD2]

41 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 70% would be first on our team at the starting position, just ahead of Diggs. 70% to 55%, a 15 point diffence in catch rate is a big difference.

 

Just to be clear Zay still has him in catches, yards, 1st downs and catch rate. Gabe has 1 td more and a better ypc average. One player is exceeding this year's expectations of them and the other is not. No one had Zay having a chance at 1,000 yards this late in the season.

 

 Gabe has more talent, I'm not questioning that, he just needs his play to equal his talent. With teams using a spy on Josh and an extra man on Diggs, that's 2 less guys to worry about, he should be having a field day. He's the one that needs to make teams pay for doing that.

 

 

 

That wasn’t the initial point you made… you were displaying that Gabe has the majority of his production tied to a handful of games… so does Zay. 
 

And while people had Gabe breaking out this year… I don’t think anyone really discussed numerically what that looked like… or had realistic expectations. The discussion was WR2 numbers… he’s 2nd on the Bills in Targets, Receptions, Yards, TD, First Downs… he’s been our WR2. 
 

If you look at what a WR2 averages in a season it’s around 80/990/6. He’s on pace for 54/982/8… pretty damn close. He’s been a 55% catch guy his 2 years prior… his numbers look like what you would expect from a volume increase in an expanded role. People weren’t ACTUALLY expecting WR2 numbers… they wanted him to put up the same numbers as Diggs. 
 

I don’t disagree on the overall message in the last paragraph… he needs to be more consistent catching the ball… just pointing out the way you displayed stats comparing the two wasn’t really transparent. 

Edited December 23, 2022 by JGMcD2

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

Just now, Nelius said:

The franchise QB failures mean there's potentially a systemic problem with scouting or heck and/or from the top down. You're the one acting like they're just going to conveniently pick up Josh Allen Jr. in the next year or two, with their current roster intact. That's the ultimate hurdle, franchise QBs aren't guaranteed. They always have a really bad QB. But I also disagree with pretty much everything else you've said. 

 

 Again no I'm not acting like that. I literally just said "they're one piece away" followed by "admittedly the hardest piece to obtain". What part of that didn't you understand? As far as a systemic failure for not drafting a franchise QB, maybe, maybe not, it's the hardest position to draft for in pro sports. It took Buffalo ovet 29 ywars to find theirs after Kelly retired. Few, if any had Allen & Jackson being the 2 best QBs in that draft class along with Mayfield, Darnold & Rosen ALL being complete busts.

 

 

[Nelius]

Just now, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Again no I'm not acting like that. I literally just said "they're one piece away" followed by "admittedly the hardest piece to obtain". What part of that didn't you understand? As far as a systemic failure for not drafting a franchise QB, maybe, maybe not, it's the hardest position to draft for in pro sports. It took Buffalo ovet 29 ywars to find theirs after Kelly retired. Few, if any had Allen & Jackson being the 2 best QBs in that draft class along with Mayfield, Darnold & Rosen ALL being complete busts.

 

 

I understand everything man I just completely disagree. I think they're far more than one blue chip QB away. They're 7-8 on the season, 1-4 in their last five, with a lame point differential. They're the Raiders of the AFC East with (gasp) worse WR's and a worse pass rush. It's a very good roster if you're starting a Madden franchise a year ago. It's not delivering in reality.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

5 hours ago, mannc said:

I don’t want Bills to play the Jets in the playoffs.  They are a pain in the ass and, I think, a bad matchup for us. I have similar feelings about Miami…

Miami I agree with, but i would LOVE to play the Jets in the post-season. That’s a free win. They literally have no offense. Weird that we lost to Zach Wilson instead of Mike White. 

5 hours ago, dma0034 said:

I don't care for Lawrence. I've thought he's been over-rated since Clemson. I don't think he'll ever get in the conversation for best QB. Just my opinion

Lawrence is improving every year and has 3 straight against legit teams in the Titans, Cowboys, and Jets. His stock is on the rise. Kind of reminds me of Allen’s 2nd half of his rookie year where he finally started putting things together. We’ll agree to disagree, but if I’m a Jags fan then I am pretty excited right now. If they can win their last 2 then they have a decent shot of making the playoffs. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

10 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

That wasn’t the initial point you made… you were displaying that Gabe has the majority of his production tied to a handful of games… so does Zay. 
 

And while people had Gabe breaking out this year… I don’t think anyone really discussed numerically what that looked like… or had realistic expectations. The discussion was WR2 numbers… he’s 2nd on the Bills in Targets, Receptions, Yards, TD, First Downs… he’s been our WR2. 
 

If you look at what a WR2 averages in a season it’s around 80/990/6. He’s on pace for 54/982/8… pretty damn close. He’s been a 55% catch guy his 2 years prior… his numbers look like what you would expect from a volume increase in an expanded role. People weren’t ACTUALLY expecting WR2 numbers… they wanted him to put up the same numbers as Diggs. 
 

I don’t disagree on the overall message in the last paragraph… he needs to be more consistent catching the ball… just pointing out the way you displayed stats comparing the two wasn’t really transparent. 

 

 Gotcha. Admittedly I looked up Zays stats, but didn't look at his game logs, my bad

 

Imo as far as averages for #2 WR go, he should be better than the average #2WR and here's why I say that.

 

1.) Because he has one of the best QBs in the league. League averages include about 20 teams with average to below average QB play. He has an advantage over most in this regard over almost all #2s.

 

2.) He has on of the best #1 WRs in the league opposite of him that demands double teams. Opening up the field for him.

 

3.) He has a QB that is so lethal teams use a gut to spy him. Another guy he doesn't have to worry about.

 

4.) He plays on a team that moves the ball better than anyone not named the Chiefs and scores alot of points. More plays and scores equal more opportunities for catches and tds.

 

He has a bigger advantage over other #2s than probably any of them in the league. As far as his catch rate for his career, aren't NFL players supposed to improve as their careers progress. What if Josh was still playing anything close to what he did his first couple of seasons?

 

 

[Nelius]

I'm on the Lawrence bandwagon and think he could potentially still be even better than Herbert. Herbert's sort of putting the right numbers together but he's got the best orchestrated dump off valve with Ekeler in the league and he's not making the impact that Lawrence is. I feel like Lawrence's size and physicality is still underrated, maybe the overall Jaguars goofiness and long hair throw people off when it comes to his physical traits. 

 

He's probably really the closest thing to a Josh Allen maniac counterpart if he can put it all together. Like Venom vs. Carnage. The excitement is warranted. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

15 minutes ago, Nelius said:

I understand everything man I just completely disagree. I think they're far more than one blue chip QB away. They're 7-8 on the season, 1-4 in their last five, with a lame point differential. They're the Raiders of the AFC East with (gasp) worse WR's and a worse pass rush. It's a very good roster if you're starting a Madden franchise a year ago. It's not delivering in reality.

 

 So you don't think they win those 5 one score games by switching out Wilson for Josh? Come on man, you really can't believe that can you? If so, I don't know what to tell you. My guess is far more people would agree they would win those games than disagree. Josh's difference over Wilson in those games has got to be at least 8 points.

 

 

 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Zach Wilson should be in the Ryan Leaf category of busts when it’s all said & done. 

[Malazan]

2 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

They are done. 11 million is worth it to the Jets. Take your 7th and move on

 

I probably should have mentioned it's actually more.. cut him post june 1st it's 15m in 2023 and 11m in 2024. I don't see cutting him as viable. 

 

Trading him post June 1st if they can manage to sucker someone is 5.7m each year. 

[Da webster guy]

When Coach Saleh said all cocky "we will see the bills again" we all laughed and said "uh yeah, first of all you probably aren't making the playoffs and if you come back to Buffalo in the playoffs we'll be favored by 14 so we'd love the chance to beat you again"

 

Maybe he just meant we'll play them next year after his 7-10 season is over.

[Process]

23 minutes ago, Nelius said:

I'm on the Lawrence bandwagon and think he could potentially still be even better than Herbert. Herbert's sort of putting the right numbers together but he's got the best orchestrated dump off valve with Ekeler in the league and he's not making the impact that Lawrence is. I feel like Lawrence's size and physicality is still underrated, maybe the overall Jaguars goofiness and long hair throw people off when it comes to his physical traits. 

 

He's probably really the closest thing to a Josh Allen maniac counterpart if he can put it all together. Like Venom vs. Carnage. The excitement is warranted. 

Not gonna lie, it's hard to take him seriously as an elite QB with that hairdo 

[GunnerBill]

53 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

That wasn’t the initial point you made… you were displaying that Gabe has the majority of his production tied to a handful of games… so does Zay. 
 

And while people had Gabe breaking out this year… I don’t think anyone really discussed numerically what that looked like… or had realistic expectations. The discussion was WR2 numbers… he’s 2nd on the Bills in Targets, Receptions, Yards, TD, First Downs… he’s been our WR2. 
 

If you look at what a WR2 averages in a season it’s around 80/990/6. He’s on pace for 54/982/8… pretty damn close. He’s been a 55% catch guy his 2 years prior… his numbers look like what you would expect from a volume increase in an expanded role. People weren’t ACTUALLY expecting WR2 numbers… they wanted him to put up the same numbers as Diggs. 
 

I don’t disagree on the overall message in the last paragraph… he needs to be more consistent catching the ball… just pointing out the way you displayed stats comparing the two wasn’t really transparent. 

 

Yea I think people presume Gabe has regressed. He hasn't. He is having a career year in every category except catch % which is down 1% on last year but as you say has been broadly consistent his three years in the league. What I think people were hoping for was more of a jump from Gabe as the full time #2 into the sort of Tee Higgins type #1B. That hasn't happened. But he is still a serviceable #2. 

 

He has more yards and more touchdowns than Adam Thielen and Mike Williams just for two examples. Think people would be pretty happy with those guys as their #2 options. The Eagles, Dolphins and Bengals are probably the exceptions at the moment because in Tee, Waddle and Devonta Smith they have highly drafted guys (basically all 1st rounders... Tee was #33) on rookie deals as their #1Bs who were all the #1 on their team their rookie year before another guy arrived. 

 

It is legit to say I am slightly disappointed in Gabe myself this year I was hoping for more of a step too and I think now I'd rather let someone else pay him after next year because I think serviceable #2 probably is his ceiling. But we still found a serviceable #2 NFL receiver in round 4 of the draft. That's a good outcome. 

[Special K]

15 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

When Coach Saleh said all cocky "we will see the bills again" 

 

Maybe he just meant we'll play them next year after his 7-10 season is over.

 

When that idiot made that comment, that’s the first thing I said......yeah...next season, clown 🤡

[GunnerBill]

34 minutes ago, Nelius said:

I'm on the Lawrence bandwagon and think he could potentially still be even better than Herbert. Herbert's sort of putting the right numbers together but he's got the best orchestrated dump off valve with Ekeler in the league and he's not making the impact that Lawrence is. I feel like Lawrence's size and physicality is still underrated, maybe the overall Jaguars goofiness and long hair throw people off when it comes to his physical traits. 

 

He's probably really the closest thing to a Josh Allen maniac counterpart if he can put it all together. Like Venom vs. Carnage. The excitement is warranted. 

 

Leads the league in most major categories since week 9. His 2nd season has had a similar arc to Allen's only Josh had a defense to help him win more of those close games early in the year. 

 

I agree Lawrence could be in the conversation with Josh, Pat, Joe and Justin by this time next year. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Gabe has more talent, I'm not questioning that, he just needs his play to equal his talent. With teams using a spy on Josh and an extra man on Diggs, that's 2 less guys to worry about, he should be having a field day. He's the one that needs to make teams pay for doing that.

 

 

Talent has never been Zay's issue. I know it isn't everything but the kid was a 9.71 RAS. It is why he was a 2nd round pick. Whatever was going on in his life at the time he was in Buffalo hurt his football IMO. I am super happy for him that he managed to get it figured out and is having some success. Few players wash out so quickly as 2nd round picks in a place and then rebound like this elsewhere. Real credit to him. 

[Bubba Gump]

24 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Talent has never been Zay's issue. I know it isn't everything but the kid was a 9.71 RAS. It is why he was a 2nd round pick. Whatever was going on in his life at the time he was in Buffalo hurt his football IMO. I am super happy for him that he managed to get it figured out and is having some success. Few players wash out so quickly as 2nd round picks in a place and then rebound like this elsewhere. Real credit to him. 

 

I agree. He was definitely in a bad place for quite awhile. Nice to see him get back to having a respectable, lucrative career. Hope he keeps it up. 

[LeGOATski]

46 minutes ago, Process said:

Not gonna lie, it's hard to take him seriously as an elite QB with that hairdo 

I say the same thing when Josh tries to grow facial hair.

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

When Coach Saleh said all cocky "we will see the bills again" we all laughed and said "uh yeah, first of all you probably aren't making the playoffs and if you come back to Buffalo in the playoffs we'll be favored by 14 so we'd love the chance to beat you again"

 

Maybe he just meant we'll play them next year after his 7-10 season is over.

And again Wilson beat the Bills with time consuming drives and clutch 3rd/4th down plays.  

 

And the Jets vaunted defense was in bad conditions exposed by Jax.  

Edited December 23, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[LeGOATski]

28 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And again Wilson beat the Bills with time consuming drives and clutch 3rd/4th down plays.  

 

And the Jets vaunted defense was in bad conditions exposed by Jax.  

It was really a good game by Wilson as he actually played within the offense. Too bad he never done it again. And too bad that one time was against the Bills. 😒

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

 

And the Jets vaunted defense was in bad conditions exposed by Jax.  

 

Exposed!!!! By only holding the Jags to 19, a full 4 and a half points below their season average, despite being on the field for what felt like the entire first 3 quarters!

 

Try harder.

[Billsfan1972]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Exposed!!!! By only holding the Jags to 19, a full 4 and a half points below their season average, despite being on the field for what felt like the entire first 3 quarters!

 

Try harder.

Bad conditions and really did well.  Jets defense was good, but I'd like to think Buffalo's is better.

[DrPJax]

3 hours ago, Process said:

Not gonna lie, it's hard to take him seriously as an elite QB with that hairdo 

Lol. Dude spends more time flipping his hair than 90% of female Jag fans.  The  high humidity down here has resulted in several bad hair days and if you have to keep trying to find the right “:product” to maintain that trademark “ bounce” , its impossible to go head first or hurdle cuz he has to get ready to flip the “do”  appropriately as soon as that helmet comes off on the sideline!  I think he has finally found something that works as the hair flips perfectly now , and the helmet is coming off less now as drives are ending in the no split end zone (tm) and he is smiling now!  ( air is cooler now and much less humid as well !) Its a breakthrough and he is the best coiffed QB in the NFL ( no frizz league) and he’s much happier with Urban no longer around confusing him with all those Blondes just asking for selfies!
 

     I’m a tad concerned  he may wear out those cervical discs tho if that o keeps hitting the no split end zone and he may need to shorten that mop  to avoid all the unavoidable high humidity effects when they are driving toward POOL END of the stadium!  Soon there should be a new chain of Salons with the first one opening poolside here in our “ football” stadium!   No distractions allowed in this football first Rebel Riviera!   👍

[HOUSE]

I never thought it would happen but I actually feel sorry for New Jersey  fans, this team is 2 years away IF THEY CAN FIND A QB.

 

[Solomon Grundy]

7 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Jesus ***** Christ Streveler already has more total yards than Wilson.

It looked as though the offensive line wasn't blocking for Zach

[Golden*Wheels]

Hope Saleh kept his receipt for Wilson. Maybe he can get his pick back.

20 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

I never thought it would happen but I actually feel sorry for New Jersey  fans, this team is 2 years away IF THEY CAN FIND A QB.

 

Oh no. That's so sad. Oh no! Wha happened? That's terrible. Oh NO!

[Seventeen]

8 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

I mean this is the best realistic scenario for him. I doubt he becomes a decent anything in this league. He’s cooked. 

 

He has to pass through Carolina before signing with any other team. League rule.

[HOUSE]

2 hours ago, Golden*Wheels said:

Hope Saleh kept his receipt for Wilson. Maybe he can get his pick back.

Oh no. That's so sad. Oh no! Wha happened? That's terrible. Oh NO!

Poor Quarterback drafting...first it was Sam, now Zack

Those are some premium draft picks completley wasted. The mistakes are killing this team

Edited December 23, 2022 by HOUSE

[stevewin]

5 hours ago, Nelius said:

I'm on the Lawrence bandwagon and think he could potentially still be even better than Herbert. Herbert's sort of putting the right numbers together but he's got the best orchestrated dump off valve with Ekeler in the league and he's not making the impact that Lawrence is. I feel like Lawrence's size and physicality is still underrated, maybe the overall Jaguars goofiness and long hair throw people off when it comes to his physical traits. 

 

He's probably really the closest thing to a Josh Allen maniac counterpart if he can put it all together. Like Venom vs. Carnage. The excitement is warranted. 

He has that "make something out of nothing" ability that requires strength and athleticism.  During the game I found myself comparing Wilson to him - like what if the QBs were switched. 

 

An example was the play the Jets LB came untouched up the middle - it was such an athletic instinctive play that Lawrence made to escape, there is zero doubt Wilson turtles and gets killed.  Wilson's one move to avoid the rush is run 15 yds backwards and 20 yds sideways then throw up a prayer. 

 

I'm with you I think Lawrence will be better than Herbert.  Esp now with a good coach and system (and some teammates producing) to support him.  Herbert can make some rocket throws, but to me there's  a lack of a "wow" factor when it somes to using his athleticism to make other plays - or even willingness to do so.  Maybe at this point I'm just spoiled by Josh 😛

[skibum]

Jets are starting to look like a lot of drought-era Bills teams. Great defense featuring some bona fide studs, whiffing on QB after QB in the draft, hovering a bit below .500, with just enough wins to finish out of the top-10 draft picks. 

[Bleedingreennc]

Bye ZW, cut his ass today

[GolfandBills]

I couldn’t be happier for the Jets lol

[Seventeen]

Plenty of options for the Jets if they cut Wilson - even Mayfield would be better at this point.

[Rubes]

Pretty realistic chance we play the Jags in the first round…

 

[RiotAct]

Just now, Rubes said:

Pretty realistic chance we play the Jags in the first round…

 

maybe the 1-4 matchup in the divisional round?

[FilthyBeast]

I said all along the Jets were frauds and they essentially played their SB against the Bills in the first matchup going 1-5 since that game with the only win coming against the same bad Bears team we are facing tomorrow. Going further they are 2-6 in their last 8 games which includes that Bills SB win.

 

Yes there is some talent there but the media hype around this team has always been ridiculous and no matter who starting QB is wasn't going to change the outcome of any of these games because they have much deeper issues beyond that position and Mike White is still a bum as well, albeit a different kind compared to Wilson.

 

Jags on the other hand are surging and in control of their playoff destiny if they win against the Texans and Titans the next 2 weeks. Going to be a much tougher matchup now for whoever the #5 seed is compared to the Titans which looked like an easy win for whoever ends up in that spot.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

4 hours ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

He has to pass through Carolina before signing with any other team. League rule.

Panthers have an 'inferiority complex' about past personnel.  Overcompensating by putting a large volume of players, however briefly.  Might have been more players through their locker room than fans through their turnstiles. 🤔😁

Edited December 23, 2022 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[Malazan]

4 hours ago, skibum said:

Jets are starting to look like a lot of drought-era Bills teams. Great defense featuring some bona fide studs, whiffing on QB after QB in the draft, hovering a bit below .500, with just enough wins to finish out of the top-10 draft picks. 

 

They've had a #3 and #2 OA in the last 5 years. I don't think the draught era Bills ever had anything like that. 

[Rubes]

2 hours ago, RiotAct said:

maybe the 1-4 matchup in the divisional round?

 

Could be...but if the Jags win out and we (perish the thought) drop to the #2 spot, we could get them in the 2-7 game.