JA: Yips, new OC, or poor OL?

[Professor Worthington]

I will waffle here and say it’s a combination of all 3, just not sure what is contributing the most.  I don’t think the elbow has anything to do with it.  He’s not barreling down the field trucking defenders with a sore anything.

 

Still no other QB I would rather have.  Clearly from a fan’s perspective my frustration comes from the dominating promise of the first 7 games to the current scratching and clawing for a W vs inferior teams.

 

What do you all think is the most important thing to get right?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 minute ago, Professor Worthington said:

I will waffle here and say it’s a combination of all 3, just not sure what is contributing the most.  I don’t think the elbow has anything to do with it.  He’s not barreling down the field trucking defenders with a sore anything.

 

Still no other QB I would rather have.  Clearly from a fan’s perspective my frustration comes from the dominating promise of the first 7 games to the current scratching and clawing for a W vs inferior teams.

 

What do you all think is the most important thing to get right?

sort of the yips. He is trying to not throw interceptions, so not trusting himself. The best throw Of the game was his last one, when he just saw it and slung it. He needs to trust himself again. 

[Big Turk]

I think his elbow is bothering him more than he is letting on...basically like he is trying to conserve it to only use his arm when he needs to and is trying to finesse the other throws.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

It’s not the OC. I think it’s a little mental. Made some bad decisions and now he’s playing a little safe. 
 

I don’t think his WRs after Diggs are doing much for him. McKenzie a good game but all he can do is run crossers. 

[ILBillsfan]

Some of the thorws to the outside that he muscling are a clear indication of the issue with the UCL that is why it was there on the DAvis thrid down conversion where it was low and then three plays later to Diggs that went incomplete... I know people afre trying to place blame and say ahhh haaa it is this but there is another team out there trying to stop them that was on a three game winning streak and just about beat Miami.   

 

How about we settle down and enjoy the ride and be glad this team is 8-3 I know i am i hav never coached or played at this level so i'm not going to arm chair diagnos but boy the message board has a lot of ex NFL players coaches and GM's that certainly know the answers right.. But when I hear from players like Ostroski, Thomas, Fina and others they understand and certainly do not have some of these takes.  Some could learn a lot from observing and listening to some of these people.

[John from Riverside]

11 minutes ago, Professor Worthington said:

I will waffle here and say it’s a combination of all 3, just not sure what is contributing the most.  I don’t think the elbow has anything to do with it.  He’s not barreling down the field trucking defenders with a sore anything.

 

Still no other QB I would rather have.  Clearly from a fan’s perspective my frustration comes from the dominating promise of the first 7 games to the current scratching and clawing for a W vs inferior teams.

 

What do you all think is the most important thing to get right?

I don’t suppose you wanna throw it is obvious elbow injury do you?

[julian]

12 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I don’t suppose you wanna throw it is obvious elbow injury do you?

He’s wearing a brace on his throwing arm and people are asking what could possibly be the issue lol

[LABILLBACKER]

1. Poor OL

2. Mediocre OC

3. Bigger injury than being told

4. Yips/ trying to be whole offense

5. Gabe & Dawson have disappeared. 

 

These facts are both obvious and glaring....

Edited November 25, 2022 by LABILLBACKER

[Since1981]

29 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

I think his elbow is bothering him more than he is letting on...basically like he is trying to conserve it to only use his arm when he needs to and is trying to finesse the other throws.

110%
He’s running a conserve mode but he has the arm available for a few 10 throws. 

[gonzo1105]

Dawson Knox has to block because the offensive line is garbage. Allen saves them so many sacks. They are awful. Dawkins is above average and so is Morse every other lineman is subpar and the backups are horrendous 

[Professor Worthington]

9 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

1. Poor OL

2. Mediocre OC

3. Bigger injury than being told

4. Yips/ trying to be whole offense

5. Gabe & Dawson have disappeared. 

Good answer.  I just can’t wrap my head around the elbow being the thing.  How do you throw a 70 yd pass at end of Jets game and the pass to Diggs today and say “it’s the elbow.”  Any orthopedic surgeons or sports medicine specialists, please weigh in!

[Big Turk]

26 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I don’t suppose you wanna throw it is obvious elbow injury do you?

Reminds me of when he had that left shoulder sprain and he looked off for like 3 or 4 games until that came off and then he went back to lighting teams up.

[BuffBillsForLife]

80% yips, 10% Dorsey, 10% OL.  The ints have gotten in his head bad.

[78thealltimegreat]

Man this thread haters gonna hate. 

[Big Turk]

Just now, Professor Worthington said:

Good answer.  I just can’t wrap my head around the elbow being the thing.  How do you throw a 70 yd pass at end of Jets game and the pass to Diggs today and say “it’s the elbow.”  Any orthopedic surgeons or sports medicine specialists, please weigh in!

 

It's like he knows he can do it but it likely doesn't feel great when he does so he is only using it when absolutely necessary. He is making a lot of finesse type throws we normally don't see him make...at least not to that degree.

[Bangarang]

All of the above. 
 

I think it starts with Dorsey and his inability to get this offense into a rhythm early. Our scripted plays don’t do that and there aren’t  enough easy completions early on. 
 

Our OL is not good and it starts inside. Saffold and Bates are terrible. Brown also gets beat too often.

 

Allen and Diggs are what makes the offense go week after week. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Bangarang

[BillsBlue]

12 minutes ago, Professor Worthington said:

Good answer.  I just can’t wrap my head around the elbow being the thing.  How do you throw a 70 yd pass at end of Jets game and the pass to Diggs today and say “it’s the elbow.”  Any orthopedic surgeons or sports medicine specialists, please weigh in!

Because he's still physically able to make those things happen but st the cost of major pain in the moment and the risk of ruining his throwing arm, as terrible as it is to say out loud, Josh shouldn't be playing he should have sat for 2 weeks to rest his arm,  but doing that kills our season.....if we hadn't had so many injuries maybe we could have afforded him to sit a couple games but not with the shell of a team we have out there rn

[Tulsabillsfanz]

9 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Man this thread haters gonna hate. 

Exactly.  Did we miss something?  Wasn’t that Josh Allen leading us 90 yards down the field for the go ahead TD with 2:40 left.  Wasn’t that Josh Allen throwing an incredible 36 yard pass to Diggs to lead us to the game winning FG in less than 20 seconds?    Yes, JA has struggled at times, but he’s still a great QB & he had no yips when the game was on the line today.  

[colin]

His elbow isn't good until the 4th quarter.

 

I think that's his issue now.

[Big Blitz]

Hurt

 

Poor OL

 

Defenses don’t care about our RBs in pass D.  They don’t care about our RBs at all.  

 

OC is inexperienced and still figuring things out

 

We might be holding back trying to win “vanilla” then go from there

 

Why is Nyiem Hines here?   
 

We have no slot WR that position took 100 plus targets from Josh a season.  
 

 

Despite these Josh is on pace for 5000 yards passing and most importantly he continues to win games.  

Edited November 25, 2022 by Big Blitz

[filthymcnasty08]

I would argue to put one more choice in there:

 

He's missing a sure handed, shifty slot WR to bail us out on 3rd downs.  

 

 

 

 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

23 minutes ago, Professor Worthington said:

Good answer.  I just can’t wrap my head around the elbow being the thing.  How do you throw a 70 yd pass at end of Jets game and the pass to Diggs today and say “it’s the elbow.”  Any orthopedic surgeons or sports medicine specialists, please weigh in!

 

 He can absolutely still make these throws with a sprained UCL, but it comes with a risk of further injury and knowing it's going to hurt like hell after the throw. Once his body cools down after a game I bet he's in alot of pain. Some people have the mental toughness to do this, most don't.

 

 That's why you see him taking most the risks in the 4th quarter when the game is on the line. As Romo said he's trying to use his body's momentum to take strain off the elbow. The best example I can give you is go watch the TD pass to Diggs last week. He literally falls down from putting his whole body into that throw.

 

 

[Professor Worthington]

32 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Man this thread haters gonna hate. 

 

17 minutes ago, Tulsabillsfanz said:

Exactly.  Did we miss something?  Wasn’t that Josh Allen leading us 90 yards down the field for the go ahead TD with 2:40 left.  Wasn’t that Josh Allen throwing an incredible 36 yard pass to Diggs to lead us to the game winning FG in less than 20 seconds?    Yes, JA has struggled at times, but he’s still a great QB & he had no yips when the game was on the line today.  

I guess you missed the part where I wrote there’s “no other QB I would rather have.”

 

My concern is that we’re not seeing MVP caliber play, which he clearly was on track for before the 2nd half of Packers game, and I’m asking the fans why.  Many have given thoughtful responses.  You two, not so much.

[Nextmanup]

It's part of his overall inconsistency; it's who Josh is.

 

You get the great with the horrible and the in-between.

 

I would love to seem him somehow iron it all out and become much more consistent.

 

I thought he was at that stage after last year and the start to this year, but then the regression.

 

I think his elbow likely has a very small amount to do with it, or the new OC.

 

Having said that, I would guess his elbow is not 100%.

 

 

[freddyjj]

39 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

Dawson Knox has to block because the offensive line is garbage. Allen saves them so many sacks. They are awful. Dawkins is above average and so is Morse every other lineman is subpar and the backups are horrendous 

And Morse missed entire game with Dawkins leaving this one in first half.  The offense struggled with 3 subs playing on Oline. 

[Nextmanup]

55 minutes ago, julian said:

He’s wearing a brace on his throwing arm and people are asking what could possibly be the issue lol

Right. His issues go so far beyond simple throwing mechanics, this is a silly take.

 

 

41 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Man this thread haters gonna hate. 

And what are you doing other than spewing hate and negativity?

It's just aimed at your fellow Bills fans, that's all.

 

And commenting on a player's sub-par performances doesn't constitute "hate".

 

Believe it or not, you can be a fan of the Bills and Josh Allen and still point out the fact that Josh is not playing at his best.

 

Mind blowing, isn't it? 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, NUT said:

Allen had a lot of bad throws before the elbow injury though.

no, actually he did not

[Nextmanup]

25 minutes ago, filthymcnasty08 said:

I would argue to put one more choice in there:

 

He's missing a sure handed, shifty slot WR to bail us out on 3rd downs.  

 

 

 

 

That may well be true, but the stuff Josh is struggling with right now goes far beyond something like that, it might represent 10% of the issue.

 

Same with his elbow.  His elbow doesn't create mental errors or stop him from correctly reading defenses pre-snap, does it?

 

 

[VaMilBill]

I gotta say it’s OC. I’m not a Josh apologist. I’ll be the first that he has made some terrible, terrible throws and decisions. But he has been placed in that position because we have trusted nearly 85% of our offense on his shoulders. Josh feels like he has to make the offense move and click. He’s been pressing. 
 

why we don’t run more, especially with him injured, baffles me. Against the browns we showed we can control the clock and assert ourselves. It also opens up the playbook and our ability for play action. 
 

I understand our o line is bad and Knox is needed to block, but he has not schemer him into the game at all which is an indictment on Dorsey

[RobbRiddick]

5 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

 

 

 

 

I think his elbow likely has a very small amount to do with it

 

Having said that, I would guess his elbow is not 100%.

 

 

 

So, like, this much...

 

[julian]

30 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

That may well be true, but the stuff Josh is struggling with right now goes far beyond something like that, it might represent 10% of the issue.

 

Same with his elbow.  His elbow doesn't create mental errors or stop him from correctly reading defenses pre-snap, does it?

 

 

If you don’t think having his throwing arm injured in a brace doesn’t effect all aspects of his play… not sure you get it

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Bad elbow at certain arm angles so his mechanics get weird when he has to make certain throws.  Maybe I’m the only one but I thought he had a good game considering his oline turned into Swiss cheese when Dawkins went down 

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Professor Worthington said:

Good answer.  I just can’t wrap my head around the elbow being the thing.  How do you throw a 70 yd pass at end of Jets game and the pass to Diggs today and say “it’s the elbow.”  Any orthopedic surgeons or sports medicine specialists, please weigh in!

The 70 yard throw came right after the hit and injury. Swelling and inflammation had not set in till after the game.  Adrenaline is an amazing thing and can mask the pain. Watch how Josh had to tork and spin his body on the Diggs td v the Vikings. I knew right then his arm/elbow was more hurt than he's letting on.

Edited November 25, 2022 by LABILLBACKER

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, Professor Worthington said:

I will waffle here and say it’s a combination of all 3, just not sure what is contributing the most.  I don’t think the elbow has anything to do with it.  He’s not barreling down the field trucking defenders with a sore anything.

 

Still no other QB I would rather have.  Clearly from a fan’s perspective my frustration comes from the dominating promise of the first 7 games to the current scratching and clawing for a W vs inferior teams.

 

What do you all think is the most important thing to get right?

 

So you feel the elbow has nothing to do with it, but he got hurt in week 9, pretty close to lining up with your assessment of when he went downhill.

 

Listening to Romo, as an ex QB he likely has a better chance of understanding what that type of injury can mean to throwing.  Good chance at some point he may have even had the same injury.  It may not even be that it actually hurts him, but just affecting his throws.

 

Overall my take on it is the injury, but also OL play and maybe defenses have figured out Dorsey's play calls.  Allen's amazing arm can overcome much of this, but take that away the arm strength and he's maybe looking like a middle of the road type of QB.  Then throw in some weak line play on top.

[Mikie2times]

Josh is a gunslinger and he knows his body is limiting him.  You can see it on the zip with his throws. He nailed Diggs on that deep pass late, but he had to really muscle a lot of passes you usually see him flick with minimal effort. Then how many deep shots did we take today? Zero.  

 

It's something he can play with it seems perhaps only impacting some of his throws. He needs some rest to get better. At this point I have no doubts it's impacting him.

Edited November 25, 2022 by KzooMike

[Hebert19]

Poor Oline is big one.  Diggs was lighting them up on sideline.  Diggs is getting open but josh has no time.  

 

Silver medal goes to dorsey.  Run josh at end and it softens everything. 

[RobbRiddicksTDLeap]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I think his elbow is bothering him more than he is letting on...basically like he is trying to conserve it to only use his arm when he needs to and is trying to finesse the other throws.

This. 
 

Every throw is off, except for when he gives it his all, and then it’s magic again. One thing Romo DID do well today, was explain that and what it feels like for Josh.
 

Yes, I’m on a first name basis with Josh.
 

I love him. 

 

That being said, the offensive line is HORRIBLE. Quessenberry got abused today. It was hard to watch. And Van Roten as well. Those two need to do all the dishes at home tonight. 
 

Dorsey isn’t letting anyone get in a rhythm with the play design. I feel like that’s  McD forcing his hand in the run game, and it’s not working.
 

And here we are back to Josh’s elbow. 

[RunTheBall]

Guys, we’ve got 2 things going on here with 17 one mental one physical.

 

Mentally he got into a rut with with the Jets and Vikings. Bad decisions, not seeing the field, horrible throws. All QB’s go through this at some point, unfortunately he got the elbow injury at the same time against the Vikings.

 

He had a graded 2 sprain of the UCL against the Vikings. I’d guess 75% of QBs sit at least a couple weeks with that injury, not Josh. That elbow is bothering him much more than he let’s on and it’s easy to see. He won’t be back to 100% for a few weeks barring re-injury.

 

Mentally I think he’s back to a good spot but he knows he can’t rocket every throw into tight windows because of the elbow. I don’t think it’s indecisiveness, he’s seeing the field, he’s just not trusting the arm to get it there and doesn’t want to risk TOs given the last few weeks.

 

Which brings me to Dorsey, who I think is the main problem. I know it’s his first year, I know the stats look good, but the eye test tells me he’s been figured out and has yet to adjust. Josh’s pick tonight I knew exactly what play was coming in that situation at that part of the field. He’s too predictable. He needs to adjust his game plan to a QB with a sore elbow and he hasn’t done so. Still gets away from the run, still nothing over the middle, still no Hines who should have feasted tonight.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by RunTheBall

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, Professor Worthington said:

Good answer.  I just can’t wrap my head around the elbow being the thing.  How do you throw a 70 yd pass at end of Jets game and the pass to Diggs today and say “it’s the elbow.”  Any orthopedic surgeons or sports medicine specialists, please weigh in!

I think it is not about not being able t throw....I think he is adjusting his throws so as to not aggravate the injury.   

[Estro]

Yips.

 

He looked great the first 6 weeks of the season. Dorsey was universally applauded for the job he was doing.

 

Something has been off with Allen the last 3 games. I think its a combination of mental (yips) and physical (elbow).

 

I hope we see the September and early October version of Allen again because I don't think we are doing much of anything in the playoffs if he doesn't improve