Von Miller knee injury (update - ACL intact, awaiting diagnosis on lateral meniscus)

[newcam2012]

10 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

Sick of these MDs pre diagnosing the worst possible scenario without seeing any MRIs Xrays etc.  I swear some of them just do it for clicks

He gave his professional opinion. He didn't diagnose anything. What are you talking about? 

[Hebert19]

17 minutes ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

All I can say is that the team not immediately declaring it an ACL is a win in my book.  Here's to cautious optimism.

Same as josh.  They'd know if he was done and it would have leaked.  Guessing mild.  4 - 6 weeks.  Hey.  I was right about josh. Ha

He will be at Josh's right now with tequila and will be just fine. 

[Breakout Squad]

6 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Hmm

 

 

Isn’t a sprain a nicer way of saying a minor tear? I remember watching an NFL player/analyst talking about it. It’s a significant injury. 

1 hour ago, vanhalen26 said:

Friggin Detroit turf!

That turf looked awful. What a joke for a multi billion dollar business. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

29 minutes ago, BuffBillsForLife said:

All I can say is that the team not immediately declaring it an ACL is a win in my book.  Here's to cautious optimism.

He also walked off on his own and didn’t look too bad doing so…the cart seemed precautionary 

[Seventeen]

32 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

Sick of these MDs pre diagnosing the worst possible scenario without seeing any MRIs Xrays etc.  I swear some of them just do it for clicks

 

And Josh was going to be out at lest 4 weeks and possibly need Tommy John surgery ...

[NoSaint]

20 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

He gave his professional opinion. He didn't diagnose anything. What are you talking about? 

that we can’t handle the difference between “the video suggests” and “that guy definitely tore” may be as much an “us” problem 

[buffblue]

4 hours ago, NUT said:

While cools. Means nothing if it's an ACL.

Huh?

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

And Josh was going to be out at lest 4 weeks and possibly need Tommy John surgery ...

I'm amazed Josh is still throwing so well after amputating his arm.

[JohnNord]

6 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

If it's MCL what's the best case scenario time wise?

They usually know immediately if it’s an ACL year.  If it’s a sprained MCL, I would say 2-6 weeks.  It sucks but could be worse 

[DrPJax]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Gonna go ahead with this thread mid-game for obvious reasons . 

 

 

 

              This guy is a very good sports medicine Dr   He’s right  the tibia is held from sliding  forward relative to the femur by throwing ACL   The knee bends , slides before there is much congsct after von plants and tries pushing forward at an angle  He knows  what an acl feels like , and his concern , disappointment pretty much tells us he prob felt it pop  The medial stress happens as the play finishes  It would be a real lucky blessing if it’s just an mcl , but I’m afraid the Dr is right  probably an acl and this snake bitten year continues

 

  It’s ironic how much talk there was about players complaining about this stadiums turf and incidence of acl injuries  Despite the record , this season is turning in to one to forget   Can’t replace talent like Hyde, Miller, white, poyer ( who is not.100%). Add Josh with his suboptimal arm , Morse and groot , and edmunds , Davis all sub optimal and a promising season is being derailed

 

 I can’t remember a season like this ; most talented , perhaps most injured roster in recent memory !  Cowboys may be headed to face KC in the SB    Bills had a hard time getting sacks with Von, as epenesa , boogie are average  Oliver , groot , Milano are our best finishers, and not  sure that’s enough  or Frazier will change and rush more guys   That worked on Geoff today  Wish von the best  or he might not be active till mid next year  Going to draft  another DE this year! 🥲

 

[Playoffs?]

3 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

They usually know immediately if it’s an ACL year.  If it’s a sprained MCL, I would say 2-6 weeks.  It sucks but could be worse 

Pretty sure with Tre White, they didn’t confirm ACL until the next morning. We all feared it though. 
 

Von looked pretty p!ssed as he was headed off in the cart. That look alone makes me worry that it is an ACL injury and he knows it. Hope I’m wrong.  We can’t afford to be without Von. 
 

 

[NoSaint]

14 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

He also walked off on his own and didn’t look too bad doing so…the cart seemed precautionary 

plenty of acl injuries are able to walk off 

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

 

Pretty crazy….. we’ve been so lucky in recent years, suffering minimal injuries (minus Tre).  This year has been a debacle.  Not because of the roster.  Not because of the coaching (although the jury is still out on Dorsey).  But because of injuries.  

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Rule about threads related to game do not apply to YoYo right?

 

Significant injury to one of Bills most important players has a scope beyond one game

[eball]

F**k all of the video docs diagnosing injuries. I’ll wait for the real thing. 
 

[Jamie Nails]

54 minutes ago, Playoffs? said:

Pretty sure with Tre White, they didn’t confirm ACL until the next morning. We all feared it though. 
 

Von looked pretty p!ssed as he was headed off in the cart. That look alone makes me worry that it is an ACL injury and he knows it. Hope I’m wrong.  We can’t afford to be without Von. 
 

 

this is different. Pretty much every talking heads knew it was a season ended for Tre. The next day just confirmed it. This isn’t being reported the way Tre’s injury was last year. 

[DrPJax]

1 minute ago, eball said:

F**k all of the video docs diagnosing injuries. I’ll wait for the real thing. 
 

   I understand, however medicine is based on years of educated guessing , observation , and most injuries have similar mechanisms responsible for their pathology. For example, if you see a guy coughing badly with sputum or shortness of breath , it’s a realistic bet a pneumonia is POSSIBLE!  These guys have years of experience and let’s face it , acl tears have common signs and symptoms.and stresses that cause them. Of course no one can DIAGNOSE it 100% correctly without an imaging study , mri in this case. But he is a board certified Dr in sports medicine. That’s all he does. Acl tears and ankle injuries are the most common sports injuries.  That’s like saying a pediatrician can’t recognize a diaper rash! , or a dentist  can’t recognize a cavity. Or a gynecologist can’t recognize a ,,,,well you get the point!   But just a dr saying it doesn’t make it fact !😊
 

      I’m as upset as you are but no reason to shoot the messenger. Could he be wrong , could von  just have a lax ACL and this is just a partial tear or sprain of the MCL only.?  Yes , but sadly the odds don’t favor that. Your tibia is not supposed to slide forward and back relative to the femur. Add in Vons dismay ( a guy I have not seen without a smile even after a loss ) and it seems reasonable to make a very educated guess. This is not Romo adding his opinion. This rash of injuries is unbelievable. I don’t know how , but if the Bills overcome losing two pro bowl leaders on D ( hyde and von) , it might be their greatest coaching season in Bills history!  Mcd , Frazier, Dorsey all have to be almost perfect going forward. No time to feel sorry , it is what it is and we are back in a familiar role , UNDERDOGS! Go Bills, SOMEHOW MAKE IT HAPPEN! 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

At this point I am seeing a run to the SuperBowl like the Giants with Eli. They were banged up and playing mediocre football most of the year only to get hot and healthy and make a SB run.  Except Hyde it looks like we may get everybody back by end of season.  

[LABILLBACKER]

I'll wait till Dr. MRI examines Von tomorrow. Everything else is just noise.

[AlfaBill]

38 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

At this point I am seeing a run to the SuperBowl like the Giants with Eli. They were banged up and playing mediocre football most of the year only to get hot and healthy and make a SB run.  Except Hyde it looks like we may get everybody back by end of season.  

Hyde might come back, didn’t you hear?

[EmotionallyUnstable]

At the rate we’ve been rehabbing, it’s good to know we’ll AT LEAST get him back by next Thanksgiving.

[ShakAttack]

4 hours ago, DrPJax said:

   I understand, however medicine is based on years of educated guessing , observation , and most injuries have similar mechanisms responsible for their pathology. For example, if you see a guy coughing badly with sputum or shortness of breath , it’s a realistic bet a pneumonia is POSSIBLE!  These guys have years of experience and let’s face it , acl tears have common signs and symptoms.and stresses that cause them. Of course no one can DIAGNOSE it 100% correctly without an imaging study , mri in this case. But he is a board certified Dr in sports medicine. That’s all he does. Acl tears and ankle injuries are the most common sports injuries.  That’s like saying a pediatrician can’t recognize a diaper rash! , or a dentist  can’t recognize a cavity. Or a gynecologist can’t recognize a ,,,,well you get the point!   But just a dr saying it doesn’t make it fact !😊
 

      I’m as upset as you are but no reason to shoot the messenger. Could he be wrong , could von  just have a lax ACL and this is just a partial tear or sprain of the MCL only.?  Yes , but sadly the odds don’t favor that. Your tibia is not supposed to slide forward and back relative to the femur. Add in Vons dismay ( a guy I have not seen without a smile even after a loss ) and it seems reasonable to make a very educated guess. This is not Romo adding his opinion. This rash of injuries is unbelievable. I don’t know how , but if the Bills overcome losing two pro bowl leaders on D ( hyde and von) , it might be their greatest coaching season in Bills history!  Mcd , Frazier, Dorsey all have to be almost perfect going forward. No time to feel sorry , it is what it is and we are back in a familiar role , UNDERDOGS! Go Bills, SOMEHOW MAKE IT HAPPEN! 

I hate that you make some great points here.  But if so many doctors agree that the video seems to indicate ACL tear, I just want to know where and how the heck Rappaport and others in media got their reports so quickly that it was a “sprain” most likely.  

[julian]

27 minutes ago, BobBelcher said:

I hate that you make some great points here.  But if so many doctors agree that the video seems to indicate ACL tear, I just want to know where and how the heck Rappaport and others in media got their reports so quickly that it was a “sprain” most likely.  

From someone close to the situation who in turn got their information from team doctors who have actually done preliminary examination of Vons knee and believe he has a sprain.

 

I’m guessing 

 

 

[TheWeatherMan]

6 hours ago, NewEra said:

Pretty crazy….. we’ve been so lucky in recent years, suffering minimal injuries (minus Tre).  This year has been a debacle.  Not because of the roster.  Not because of the coaching (although the jury is still out on Dorsey).  But because of injuries.  

Not sure what games you are watching if you don’t think coaching (especially post bye week) hasn’t been a debacle.  

[DrPJax]

21 minutes ago, BobBelcher said:

I hate that you make some great points here.  But if so many doctors agree that the video seems to indicate ACL tear, I just want to know where and how the heck Rappaport and others in media got their reports so quickly that it was a “sprain” most likely.  

Great question. I really don’t know.  Maybe they rush to get things out for clicks as it’s there JoB?  One sure thing , if someone’s paycheck depends on getting info out , they might not be able to be trusted?     It’s possible that’s all the Bills want to be leaked ?  Mcd likes keeping things close to his chest so I wouldn’t trust any info until the mri results are in. There is no real repercussion if Rap is wrong!  
 

Gosh , I hope it’s best case and just a sprain. One thing about Drs is they are conditioned to always look at the worst case scenario. It’s like set expectations low and then If things are good , you look better delivering great news. Worst case for a dr is to say the Mcl  is just sprained and if it’s torn , you look incompetent and it’s a good way to get sued in real life. That’s why they tell you every  possible bad thing before even the most common surgery.  Then when things go good , the surgeon looks great .  Never give false hope!  A neurosurgeon never tells or promises full recovery because any result less and you will get sued.  So it’s Juarez Dr speak , but thet are trained sports medicine guys and they spend literally years studying mechanisms of injuries. And treating those injuries. So I think they have a level if insight way beyond Rap who is only reporting what he has been told. So , honestly , it looked suspicious fir more than a sprain. But no one knows ( the field Dr probably knows as you test the laxity between the two knees. If the acl  is torn, the tibia ( lower leg) slips forward when pulled moreso than the other knee with an intact acl. )   Other than that only an mri will be  100%. The guys are just offering educated opinions based on similar experiences but they can’t know until the MRI is read.  MAYBE RAP SPOKE TO THE TEAM  ORTHO WHO DID THE FIELD EXAM AND REASSURED RAP the acl was not torn!  Just hard to fathom Rap has that type of access to the team Dr.    That would be great news. It just LOOKED  suspicious for a tear, but only an MRI is  definitive. Hope that helps. 

[Charles Romes]

18 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

Great question. I really don’t know.  Maybe they rush to get things out for clicks as it’s there JoB?  One sure thing , if someone’s paycheck depends on getting info out , they might not be able to be trusted?     It’s possible that’s all the Bills want to be leaked ?  Mcd likes keeping things close to his chest so I wouldn’t trust any info until the mri results are in. There is no real repercussion if Rap is wrong!  
 

Gosh , I hope it’s best case and just a sprain. One thing about Drs is they are conditioned to always look at the worst case scenario. It’s like set expectations low and then If things are good , you look better delivering great news. Worst case for a dr is to say the Mcl  is just sprained and if it’s torn , you look incompetent and it’s a good way to get sued in real life. That’s why they tell you every  possible bad thing before even the most common surgery.  Then when things go good , the surgeon looks great .  Never give false hope!  A neurosurgeon never tells or promises full recovery because any result less and you will get sued.  So it’s Juarez Dr speak , but thet are trained sports medicine guys and they spend literally years studying mechanisms of injuries. And treating those injuries. So I think they have a level if insight way beyond Rap who is only reporting what he has been told. So , honestly , it looked suspicious fir more than a sprain. But no one knows ( the field Dr probably knows as you test the laxity between the two knees. If the acl  is torn, the tibia ( lower leg) slips forward when pulled moreso than the other knee with an intact acl. )   Other than that only an mri will be  100%. The guys are just offering educated opinions based on similar experiences but they can’t know until the MRI is read.  MAYBE RAP SPOKE TO THE TEAM  ORTHO WHO DID THE FIELD EXAM AND REASSURED RAP the acl was not torn!  Just hard to fathom Rap has that type of access to the team Dr.    That would be great news. It just LOOKED  suspicious for a tear, but only an MRI is  definitive. Hope that helps. 

 

when you reach Rappaport’s level you build your reputation on never reporting inaccurate news. However, Ian’s the same guy who reported the AB signing.  

[WotAGuy]

My sources have told me Von will be week to week, followed by day to day and then hour to hour.  

[CSBill]

5 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

My sources have told me Von will be week to week, followed by day to day and then hour to hour.  

 

Ah! We know your sources, Dr. McDermott.

[Teddy KGB]

16 hours ago, Limeaid said:

Rule about threads related to game do not apply to YoYo right?

[JohnNord]

9 hours ago, Jamie Nails said:

this is different. Pretty much every talking heads knew it was a season ended for Tre. The next day just confirmed it. This isn’t being reported the way Tre’s injury was last year. 

Right it seems to me that this injury is similar to Zach Wilson in the preseason.  It looked like an ACL, it was reported the team was “cautiously optimistic” be avoided major injury and tests confirmed it.  But we’ll see

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Not sure what games you are watching if you don’t think coaching (especially post bye week) hasn’t been a debacle.  

i don’t know what games your watching if you don’t think injuries aren’t by far the biggest reasons why we lost….. 2nd biggest reason would be Josh Allen throwing terrible interceptions.  
 

coaching hasn’t been great especially Dorsey, but I have NO DOUBT we win every game if we were healthy. 
 

[Chaos]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

i don’t know what games your watching if you don’t think injuries aren’t by far the biggest reasons why we lost….. 2nd biggest reason would be Josh Allen throwing terrible interceptions.  
 

coaching hasn’t been great especially Dorsey, but I have NO DOUBT we win every game if we were healthy. 
 

You do realize Allen is injured don’t you? 

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

You do realize Allen is injured don’t you? 

Dolphins/Jets he wasn’t injured. 
 

Dolphins we lost 100% due to injuries and heat.  I’m not one to make a ton of excuses, but that is pretty clear to anyone that doesn’t root for Miami. 
 

Jets game was just our now typical post-bye malaise.  Injuries on defense and we looked like we could care less for most of the game. 

[Big Turk]

7 hours ago, BobBelcher said:

I hate that you make some great points here.  But if so many doctors agree that the video seems to indicate ACL tear, I just want to know where and how the heck Rappaport and others in media got their reports so quickly that it was a “sprain” most likely.  

 

From a Bills source, which means he has heard what the team doctors have said.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Big Turk

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, Chaos said:

You do realize Allen is injured don’t you? 

Uhhhhhh yeah….. not sure how that contrasts my post.  Explain please

[SCBills]

6 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

From a Bills source, which means he has heard what the team doctors have said.

I know we all want to believe anyone that says it’s not an ACL, but for the people who say “but all these Twitter docs say…” … well, they also said Allen could need Tommy John surgery (wildly rare for QB’s) and might be done for the year.  
 

My brother is a physical therapist, and to him the injury screams MCL given it was a contact injury that bent his knee inward. 
 

My brother isn’t the end all, be all, but he correctly diagnosed Allen when Twitter docs were panic trending Tommy John on Twitter.    
 

Edited November 25, 2022 by SCBills

[Big Turk]

Just now, SCBills said:

I know we all want to believe anyone that says it’s not an ACL, but for the people who say “but all these Twitter docs say…” … well, they also said Allen could need Tommy John surgery (wildly rare for QB’s) and might be done for the year.  
 

My brother is a physical therapist, and to him the injury screams MCL given it was a contact injury that bent his knee inward. 

 

Almost nobody said that actually.

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Almost nobody said that actually.

Chao definitely invoked Tommy John.   
 

He may have not said he definitely needed it, but he, and some others, put that out into the Twitterverse. 

[Big Turk]

Just now, SCBills said:

Chao definitely invoked Tommy John.   
 

He may have not said he definitely needed it, but he, and some others, put that out into the Twitterverse. 

 

Most said that as an NFL QB it wasn't needed but if he was an MLB Pitcher that it likely would have been on the table.

[SCBills]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Most said that as an NFL QB it wasn't needed but if he was an MLB Pitcher that it likely would have been on the table.

Sure.. which was ridiculous, because that would necessitate a serious UCL injury .. which Allen clearly did not have given he was mechanically able to launch a pass two plays later.