Terrel Bernard was absolutely abused yesterday

[Beck Water]

41 minutes ago, TC in St. Louis said:

 

I agree with you, as does Josh.  The first pick cost us at least 3.  The second pick gave them 7.  Bernard is a rookie who had a bad game.  Combine that with Johnson who was horrible, and no Milano....it's no wonder the Jets were running like crazy.  

 

We've had the best safety tandem in the league for years.  Missing one hurts.  Missing both reveals a major weakness.  Maybe Marlow will catch up.  He was a good backup, and signed with Detroit to become a starter.  I like him.  

 

Josh and Dorsey will review the film, find out what's going on out there, who's getting open, and diversify.  They can march up and down the field if they choose the open, shorter routes.  

 

I think Josh has always had a streak about him of "the mule trained by loving kindness": A man pays extra for a mule said to be extra reliable because it was trained with loving kindness.  he mounts the mule, which refuses to budge.  he goes back to the tavern to complain to the seller, who comes out with a stick and whacks the mule between the eyes.  "What!" says the buyer, "I thought he was trained with loving kindness" "Oh he was", says the seller, "but first you have to get his attention".

 

The reason I think this is Coach Buhl's story about Josh throwing deep in training camp when the call was throw to the fullback in the flat: "Coach, Brett Favre says Touchdowns First!"  "I don't care what Favre says, follow the playcall".  Then Josh's story about throwing to the endzone instead of the flat in training camp and Daboll screaming at him in his helmet, they came off the field and Daboll came up and was still screaming, calmed down, went away, and came back.  Those are stories about a guy who will listen to his coaches - but only AFTER something gets his attention. 

 

For Josh, it took until 3 INTs in the Patriots game 2019 when Josh threw 3 picks.  We could have won that game without 2 of the picks.  But he'd thrown 2 INTs against the Jets and 1 against Cincinnati earlier that season, and I'm sure the coaches talked to him.  It took a bad loss to get his attention.

 

Josh has been being careless with the football all year.  Yeah, the deflection against the Rams was partly on McKenzie, but Josh himself has said, if he's zipping it into closing coverage, that probably means there's someone else open.  He had a 2nd pick throwing to Crowder later in the game.  The pick in the Ravens game was a deflection, they happen against top DLmen, but the pick against Pittsburgh was to Davis in easy FG range on 1st down and the two picks in the Packers game were awful.  I'm sure the coaches have been talking to Josh, and I'm sure he's listening but part of him is saying "gotta move the ball down the field, I can fit it in there". 

 

Hopefully this bad loss in a perfectly winnable game gets his attention.  I don't think it's an accident that Dorsey mentioned "distribute the ball" several times in his presser (aside: that guy has awful pressers

 

I dunno about Marlow.  He started 9 games in Detroit but was sent on his way as "not good enough".  I think the Bills plan was for Damar Hamlin to replace one of Poyer or Hyde next year (they picked Hyde to stay) and then pick up someone else.  I agree that Johnson is out of his depth.

[The Frankish Reich]

17 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The 2022 draft has not had good early returns.

I’d say “mixed returns.” Elam has been what we expected - a guy who can hold down a key position as a starter on a good team. Benford has been a very pleasant surprise and a key contributor. Cook And Shakir have shown flashes. No draft pick is a clear bust. 
“Mixed” however because we’ve seen good O linemen drafted after Cook. And that was clearly a position of need. Good teams sometimes have to deviate from best player available and draft

for need, and I’m afraid guys like Cook and Shakir may turn out to be luxuries that in retrospect we couldn’t afford (instead of, say, packaging picks to move up to fill positions of immediate need)

[BillsShredder83]

16 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Malik Willis has some plus measurables that at least can be projected into something, someday.

 

Bernard is small, and slow. Like a tiny Kelvin Sheppard. Never saw the fit. His process-speak must be elite.

So was Milano. He's not slow if you watch him in college, dudes explosive. Our LBs are asked to prioritize coverage over the run. It's the new LB, gone are the days of Brandon Spikes, especially in our 2 LB system.

 

Let's maybe see how this thing plays out, instead of writing off a rookie who clearly wasn't ready to start (as should be expected)

[newcam2012]

3 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I’d say “mixed returns.” Elam has been what we expected - a guy who can hold down a key position as a starter on a good team. Benford has been a very pleasant surprise and a key contributor. Cook And Shakir have shown flashes. No draft pick is a clear bust. 
“Mixed” however because we’ve seen good O linemen drafted after Cook. And that was clearly a position of need. Good teams sometimes have to deviate from best player available and draft

for need, and I’m afraid guys like Cook and Shakir may turn out to be luxuries that in retrospect we couldn’t afford (instead of, say, packaging picks to move up to fill positions of immediate need)

Too early to say how this year's draft picks will be. However let's take a look at 2020 picks.

 

2nd round pick 54 - Epenesa

3rd round pick 86 - Moss

4th round pick 128 - Davis

5th round pick 167 - Fromm

6th round pick 188 - Bass

6th round pick 207 - Hodgins

7th round pick 239 - Jackson

 

Some good and bad in that class of drafts. The good is Dane Jackson, Bass, and Davis. Bills definelty missed with AJ, Moss, and Fromm. 

 

I believe the Bills are very good at finding quality players late in the draft. Look at Bedford this year. They are just plain awful at drafting the RB position. 

[Brand J]

Undersized, yes, but his athleticism shouldn’t be an issue. I’m not going to condemn the rookie on his first ever NFL start. As others have said, Johnson was far worse at safety, surprisingly so. I knew he wasn’t a great athlete, but he supposedly had the instincts to play faster and take proper angles. We saw none of that. 

[BillsShredder83]

3 hours ago, bmur66 said:

I have questions. I'm no x's and o's guy but when 40 is rushing the passer and it's a running play who's responsibilty is it to cover his spot? Several times I saw 40 getting a guided tour past the QB and the run going to where he was. It's like "setting the edge" is not something they do?????

I think he's given the green light to sell out for the pass, and sometimes it leads to runs.

 

Pros outweighs the cons. They'll get some yards on runs but by selling out for the pass were dialing up pressure. Leads to longer drives sometimes but you hope the pressure leads to mistakes on these longer drives.

 

When Von is told to contain, he's absolutely elite at it

[Sestak4ever]

I am not a Tremiane Edmunds hater, but with Milano out we really needed him to step up and make some impact plays. I think I saw one tackle at the line of scrimmage by him. Bernard is a rookie and hasn’t seen a lot that was thrown at him. Edmunds on the other hand is a seasoned vet. I was disappointed in his showing.

[Watching since 1964]

26 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Undersized, yes, but his athleticism shouldn’t be an issue. I’m not going to condemn the rookie on his first ever NFL start. As others have said, Johnson was far worse at safety, surprisingly so. I knew he wasn’t a great athlete, but he supposedly had the instincts to play faster and take proper angles. We saw none of that. 

I think it was after this years draft that BBB said Buffalo doesn’t use RAS. He didn’t elaborate.

[HopelessNJBuffaloFan]

Our whole backfield was victimized. They played so far off the Jets receivers that they had easy short yard non contestable catches. We did not play up on the line, but back 5 yards. So, not one guy, all of them

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

The defense, without Milano, was good this week. They weren't the problem.

 

They weren't the ONLY problem, but when a defense allows 174 yds rushing including 13 play 5:58 TD , 14 play 8:39  (fumble) and 13 play 6:10 drives (FG to take the lead) in the 2nd half, they are A problem in the game.

 

 

Just now, Azucho98 said:

Agree.  Dodson filled in great when Edmunds was out.  

 

I think in the past, when they tried putting Dodson in for Milano it didn't work so well.  So I think their viewpoint is that Dodson is a better fit backing up Edmunds, and give Bernard a try backing up Milano.

[Nuncha]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

They weren't the ONLY problem, but when a defense allows 174 yds rushing including 13 play 5:58 TD , 14 play 8:39  (fumble) and 13 play 6:10 drives (FG to take the lead) in the 2nd half, they are A problem in the game.

 

 

 

I think in the past, when they tried putting Dodson in for Milano it didn't work so well.  So I think their viewpoint is that Dodson is a better fit backing up Edmunds, and give Bernard a try backing up Milano.

I agree but clearly Bernard was having a bad outing - Put Dodson in and see what happens at least.  It couldn't have been much worse.

[The Frankish Reich]

31 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

They weren't the ONLY problem, but when a defense allows 174 yds rushing including 13 play 5:58 TD , 14 play 8:39  (fumble) and 13 play 6:10 drives (FG to take the lead) in the 2nd half, they are A problem in the game.

Agree. It exposes a weakness (basically the same one as last year). I wasn’t concerned in the 2nd half of the GB game. Fine, you’re down a bunch of points, you want to take the ball out of the reigning MVP’s hands and grind out long drives, have at it. But given the state of the Jets passing game and Wilson’s propensity to make mistakes the inability to stop the run (or was it the  lack of will to commit to stopping the run) was definitely cause for concern. 

[ArtVandalay]

Bernard was a horrendous draft pick.  218 pound line backer with middling speed. 

 

Before anyone mentions Milano, he was 223 and drafted in the 5th round..  not in the THIRD round. 

 

Just as bad as the Zach Moss pick. Horrendous from day 1.

 

I'll hold out hope but highly doubtful in him. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

44 minutes ago, HopelessNJBuffaloFan said:

Our whole backfield was victimized. They played so far off the Jets receivers that they had easy short yard non contestable catches. We did not play up on the line, but back 5 yards. So, not one guy, all of them

Those short passes didn’t seem to hurt us at all…they hit a couple clutch slants on big third downs if I’m remembering properly 

[Process]

18 hours ago, whorlnut said:

My problem with Bernard is if they decide to keep edmunds. Milano is under contract. Where does Bernard fit in?  A third round pick should be a starter. 

We knew the pick was terrible when it was made. It stinks of McDermott. 

[Sandhill Mike]

19 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

I think Cook is starting to look pretty good and it shows with where they are putting him in during game situations. Also, hoping Shakir figures things out pretty quick here, as he's shown a lot of good signs. Elam, having faced lots of #1's has been up and down (couple excellent picks and some tight coverage plus giving up a ton of underneath outs) but his athletic ability and apparent work ethic looks like he'll get there eventually. Benford has played solid yet unspectacular so far. Bernard? ehhh. we'll see!

Good post... I dig the handle!  Some of my favorite numbers as well.

[Plano]

19 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Finally got a chance to review the game from yesterday with a clear head and the most blatant problem on defense was Bernard.  He was attacked and abused by the Jets all day long in both the passing game and run game.

 

He was frequently out of position, over running plays, losing containment and outright missing tackles.  I understand he is a rookie, but my god. 

 

Milano is our best backer by far, pray he's back soon.

never heard of Bernard before Sunday.

 

Knew it wasn't going to be good 

[msw2112]

Bernard may get better.  He'll gain experience and he will likely bulk up.  He seems to have the intangibles - a very good football player - even though he doesn't have the measureables.  For now, however, he's just not ready.  He should have been yanked in favor of Dodson after it became obvious he wasn't ready.  Let's hope they are a bit more flexible next week if Milano is still out.

 

It's way too early to call the draft a bust.  The rookie corners and Shakir have contributed.  Cook has contributed a bit more in the last couple of games.  No stars yet, but give it some time.

[bmur66]

1 hour ago, BillsShredder83 said:

I think he's given the green light to sell out for the pass, and sometimes it leads to runs.

 

Pros outweighs the cons. They'll get some yards on runs but by selling out for the pass were dialing up pressure. Leads to longer drives sometimes but you hope the pressure leads to mistakes on these longer drives.

 

When Von is told to contain, he's absolutely elite at it

That makes sense and is what I was thinking also. Green light to wreak havoc. I didn't notice much run stuffing going on in 40's wake. I assume that would be the linebackers job?

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Too early to say how this year's draft picks will be. However let's take a look at 2020 picks.

 

2nd round pick 54 - Epenesa

3rd round pick 86 - Moss

4th round pick 128 - Davis

5th round pick 167 - Fromm

6th round pick 188 - Bass

6th round pick 207 - Hodgins

7th round pick 239 - Jackson

 

Some good and bad in that class of drafts. The good is Dane Jackson, Bass, and Davis. Bills definelty missed with AJ, Moss, and Fromm. 

 

I believe the Bills are very good at finding quality players late in the draft. Look at Bedford this year. They are just plain awful at drafting the RB position. 

2020 draft looks great in retrospect. 4 key contributors without a first-round pick. And Moss was for a brief shining moment #5. 

[jletha]

 

[frostbitmic]

19 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Finally got a chance to review the game from yesterday with a clear head and the most blatant problem on defense was Bernard.  He was attacked and abused by the Jets all day long in both the passing game and run game.

 

He was frequently out of position, over running plays, losing containment and outright missing tackles.  I understand he is a rookie, but my god. 

 

Milano is our best backer by far, pray he's back soon.

So, you're saying that Bernard played like the rest of the team Sunday (except Diggs) The game reminded me of the Jacksonville debacle last year, where the team appeared to sleep walk through the game and the coaching staff couldn't wake them up.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

So, you're saying that Bernard played like the rest of the team Sunday (except Diggs) The game reminded me of the Jacksonville debacle last year, where the team appeared to sleep walk through the game and the coaching staff couldn't wake them up.

 

It was the same weekend too (Nov 7th), and the same 2nd game after the Bye week. Almost a mirror image from last year where we came out of the bye flat, managed to survive the first game by dominating a lesser team, then laid an Offensive egg the next.

[FilthyBeast]

I know it's taboo here to discuss, but I've said all along that Beane's drafts have not been that great overall especially if you take JA17 out of the equation.

 

And while it's still a bit early to judge this year's batch, it's been a bit underwhelming other than Benford being a revelation as a late round pick.

[WideNine]

He needs more time to bake. 

 

There are a lot of nuances to Milano's game and a lot of it comes from making the appropriate reads very quickly and not a lot of delay reacting.

 

Milano is able to beat blockers to the point of attack for this very reason. He ain't running blockers over to get to the right spots.

 

The book on Bernard is that he is a very instinctual player with good football IQ, BUT asking him year 1 to step into that kind role on this defense is too tall an order.

 

 

 

 

 

[JoPoy88]

50 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said:

Coaches are being overly conservative with injuries. We can’t lose anymore games because of playing “safe”. 

How can you or any fan for that matter conclude this? We simply do not have the access to the players that the coaches and team medical staff have. Who should’ve been out there this year that wasn’t? Tre? 

Edited November 8, 2022 by JoPoy88

[MarlinTheMagician]

20 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Where has Shakir been since?  Imo he needs to take over the slot or at least be more involved, but the coaches are hiding him for some reason. 

Love Shakir, but Sunday was not McKenzie's fault, IMHO.  Knox, McKenzie & Cook open short A LOT, Josh insisted on looking long.  He will get that fixed.

[whorlnut]

40 minutes ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Love Shakir, but Sunday was not McKenzie's fault, IMHO.  Knox, McKenzie & Cook open short A LOT, Josh insisted on looking long.  He will get that fixed.

I don’t see how anyone can pass McKenzie off as a viable nfl starter, but Whatever I guess. 

[The Jokeman]

21 hours ago, whorlnut said:

My problem with Bernard is if they decide to keep edmunds. Milano is under contract. Where does Bernard fit in?  A third round pick should be a starter. 

Move Milano to the middle and hopefully Bernard can grow into a WLB. 

1 hour ago, Buffalo619 said:

Coaches are being overly conservative with injuries. We can’t lose anymore games because of playing “safe”. 

We play safe to avoid making big mistakes that make the game unreachable. Belichick did this countless times in the Brady era as more than not his QB came through when things matter.  Josh has had his ups and downs thus far but still feel he's as clutch as you could ask. The truth is the defense has kept all the games we've lost to be within 1 score. If our kicker doesn't shank a field goal the game goes into OT. In fact Bass also missed a game that would have tied the Dolphins too, now I'm not blaming it all on him since it takes a team to win or lose but it's an interesting thing to remember. 

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

They weren't the ONLY problem, but when a defense allows 174 yds rushing including 13 play 5:58 TD , 14 play 8:39  (fumble) and 13 play 6:10 drives (FG to take the lead) in the 2nd half, they are A problem in the game.

 

 

 

 

No. They really weren't. The offense was the problem. 

 

The defense allowed 20 points. And seven of those 20 points came on a drive where the Jets got the ball on the Buffalo 19 yard line. How, you ask, did the Jets get the Ball on the Buffalo 19 yard line? Well, someone on the offense air-mailed the ball to Sauce Gardner at the Buffalo 35 and Gardner wasn't really near enough to anyone in a blue uniform when he caught the ball that anyone could get to him before he got to the 19.

 

There was one main problem. That was the offense that only scored 17 points. You'll win very few games scoring 17 points and then on top of that giving the other team the ball at your 19 yard line on a horrible INT. Ask Josh Allen if that was true, he'll tell you. In fact, you don't need to ask, he already has told you. He knows that's true, and so should everyone else.

 

Was the defense perfect? Hell, no. But they were good. 

 

The offense was not.

 

Scoring 17 yourself, on top of handing your opponent the ball on your 19 yard line? That's a horrendous game by the offense.

 

This was on them. Allen knows it. So should you, and everyone.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Thurman#1

[BullBuchanan]

22 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The 2022 draft has not had good early returns.

Um, Elam and Benford are starting quality CBs already and Cook and Shakir are showing flashes. Not sure what more you want out of a draft. Bernard looked liek a terrible pick when they made it.

[whorlnut]

24 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

No. They really weren't. The offense was the problem. 

 

The defense allowed 20 points. And seven of those 20 points came on a drive where the Jets got the ball on the Buffalo 19 yard line. How, you ask, did the Jets get the Ball on the Buffalo 19 yard line? Well, someone on the offense air-mailed the ball to Sauce Gardner at the Buffalo 35 and Gardner wasn't really near enough to anyone in a blue uniform when he caught the ball that anyone could get to him before he got to the 19.

 

There was one main problem. That was the offense that only scored 17 points. You'll win very few games scoring 17 points and then on top of that giving the other team the ball at your 19 yard line on a horrible INT. Ask Josh Allen if that was true, he'll tell you. In fact, you don't need to ask, he already has told you. He knows that's true, and so should everyone else.

 

Was the defense perfect? Hell, no. But they were good. 

 

The offense was not.

 

Scoring 17 yourself, on top of handing your opponent the ball on your 19 yard line? That's a horrendous game by the offense.

 

This was on them. Allen knows it. So should you, and everyone.

 

 

Exactly. The lack of overall talent on offense is starting to show up. Allen and Diggs are our entire offense. We need to upgrade most of the other positions. 

[Beck Water]

40 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

No. They really weren't. The offense was the problem

 

OK, we'll have to "agree to disagree" then.  I said the defense was "A" problem, and I stand by that.

 

Obviously, if we want to choose 1-2 plays that swung the game, Allen's two horrible INTs would be those plays, but we have had 5 games with 2 or more offensive turnovers, and won 4 of them.  Part of the reason for that is in most of those games, the defense kept handing the ball back to our offense until we built up a lead, instead of letting the opponents grind down the field and burn clock.  🤷‍♂️

Edited November 8, 2022 by Beck Water

[pocoboy]

3 hours ago, jletha said:

 

 

Hey now, that "pick the new guy on defense and hammer him" train has already left the station, don't bother stopping it now!

[Bangarang]

23 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

The 2022 draft has not had good early returns.

In all honesty, Beane has missed a lot more than he’s hit on the first 2 days of the draft. 

[TwistofFate]

13 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Why because he agrees with you?

Because Nolan probably actually watched the tape and didn't glance at a stat sheet.  Bernard was abused.

[Sierra Foothills]

On 11/7/2022 at 1:58 PM, SectionC3 said:

The Araiza situation nearly submarined the season.

 

New to the sport?

 

On 11/7/2022 at 2:17 PM, HOUSE said:

Enter Baylon Spector

 

You're often facetious so I'm not taking this seriously but anyone who understands football and watched Spector this preseason could only have been impressed.

 

On 11/7/2022 at 6:31 PM, 34-78-83 said:

Bernard’s ceiling is Klein ( the slightly younger version). I can’t see him starting full time unless he really develops

 

It's weird that you would compare two players who couldn't be more stylistically different than each other.

 

[ArtVandalay]

17 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

It was the same weekend too (Nov 7th), and the same 2nd game after the Bye week. Almost a mirror image from last year where we came out of the bye flat, managed to survive the first game by dominating a lesser team, then laid an Offensive egg the next.

Is it coming out of the bye flat? Or is it coming out flat after beating KC?

 

5-1 after beating KC last year,  3-5 the next 8 games... this year we were 5-1 after beating KC...

 

I think the team got overly emotional for KC and had checked out. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by ArtVandalay

[Watching since 1964]

 

At the 18min18sec mark Joe Marino, who scouted Bernard at Baylor, discusses him…

“the other guy (he had been discussing Jaquan Johnson) that struggled

mightily was Terrell Bernard and I would

love to watch the tape before I really go in

on him, but man did he look like he

was lost out there and you could just tell by

alignment every play was like he was talking

to Tremaine trying to figure out where to

line up he was out of position multiple

times he was slow to process he couldn't

get through traffic, his impact was was very poor

in this ball game you could tell Matt Milano wasn't

out there and this is the guy you drafted in the

third round for these types of moments right, 

to be able to mitigate the loss to

an extent with Matt Milano and I know it's

his first start and the book's not written on Terrell Bernard, but he looked a lot like the player I didn't love at Baylor I'm not gonna lie. Bernard's best moments have always been when he's a gap shooter

and when you got to get him thinking and processing it ain't always there, and I felt that way watching him in

preseason and I surely felt that way watching this

game against the Jets and I hate that I'm sitting here

reflecting on this loss and going in on a couple of backups, but they struggled…they struggled…it

cost the team.”

[Not at the table Karlos]

15 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Because Nolan probably actually watched the tape and didn't glance at a stat sheet.  Bernard was abused.

Do you have any plays on video for an example of him being "abused"? I went back and watched the game over again along with jets highlights(if he's giving up big plays it would be on there) and don't see these plays. He had ups and downs as every rookie does but nothing close to "abused". Joe "I didn't watch the tape" Marino couldn't give plays either.